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Quoted: I own a P320 and am a Sig fan boy. My P320 is not my every day carry and spends most of its time in the safe. If I shoot it it doesn't go in a holster. At first I was in the camp of operator error but there is just to many cases of them discharging that they can't all be that. I am still a Sig fan boy but the P320 has hurt Sig and their response of doubling down that there is no problem hasn't helped them. I'm in the same camp, I defended it after many years of hard use. Banged them around, dropped them and never a problem. But the video a couple of days ago where the guy lost a nut due to UD, I concluded there is a problem. Too bad, I have an Xten Comp that I absolutely love shooting! I'll continue to shoot it but it will be a range only gun, not a carry piece .... |
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Back to the P226. The P320 was Sig not wanting to miss out on the striker bro fad. I think after 4 decades people are finally starting to come to their senses and accept DA/SA as the superior platform. It's going to be a while before we get widespread acceptance and new offerings from manufacturers. And I think we'll see some more manual safety options that allow people to carry hammer down safety off OR cocked and locked without changing any parts, and still keep decocker function as well. Beretta needs to make a new model with a much better, lower profile optics mount and co-witness height sights. Keep the G style decocker on the slide, and add a frame mounted manual safety. This would allow for carry with the safety on or off, hammer up or down, and provide a safe decocker option. Then make the lower parts modular so you can drop it into polymer or metal frames, PDW chassis, etc. You'd need a deep pocket for the hammer spring housing but other than that it would be a badass pistol. And making a modular FCG would also allow for protecting the trigger bar completely inside the frame. I'd buy like 3 or 4 of these. |
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Sig needs new leadership and a fix for this problem. If they don't recall every gun with compensation or offer a recall with fix they won't survive as a company. I would be willing to bet there are internal communications and reports acknowledging the problems going back some time. I've attended legal conferences where we dissect these sort of communications to get punitive damages awards. |
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Quoted: Apparently Sig has been hand-inspecting each 320 or the door for…up to 2 years? The problem may be fixed already. That’s the problem with not just denial, but failing to even acknowledge the issue. We don’t know when it started. We don’t know if it stopped. We don’t know if it affects only early guns, guns up until 2 years ago, all guns. We don’t know if it affects certain parts. We don’t know what parts to replace. We don’t know if parts can even be replaced to solve the issue. It might be tolerance stacking involving the actual serialized firearm. It might be a wear issue over time/use caused by poorly inspected parts that are out of spec, either ongoing, up until a certain time, or just one batch. We know something causes it, we know how to test for some failures, and we know what parts to look at when some of those failures occur. IMO, IF Sig is forced to acknowledge it, they’ll likely initiate a voluntary upgrade program to replace the trigger bar, sear, and maybe the slide and striker assembly. Or they could discontinue it and move production to the full size 365 FUSE. I’m sure palms could be greased to seamlessly transition the military over to that design without going through trials. Without multiple, reproducible detonations forcing them to acknowledge the problem and explain the cause, I don’t think they’re going to do anything. And as I’ve said before, because they’re being so tight lipped about this, we don’t know if it’s just a scale problem involving a shitty gun. How many Shadow Systems are in the wild? Way less than 3.8mil. No one would call that a shitty gun, but I sent 2 back to the factory for rapid, unanticipated disassembly during operation in the span of a year. Nothing says they're obligated to sell the M17/M18 or P320 to civilians. They could quietly discontinue the P320 SKUs while still meeting their military contract obligations. Kharn |
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Quoted: I am Jacks pain of a self inflicted GSW. Quoted: Quoted: Take the number of guns in the field, (A), and multiply it by the probable rate of failure, (B), then multiply the result by the average out-of- court settlement, (C). A times B times C equals X...If X is less than the cost of a recall, we don't do one I am Jacks pain of a self inflicted GSW. I am Jack's perforated spleen |
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Quoted: Sig should just buy a lot of G-19s and re-brand them as the P320v2. |
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Quoted: Back to the P226. The P320 was Sig not wanting to miss out on the striker bro fad. I think after 4 decades people are finally starting to come to their senses and accept DA/SA as the superior platform. It's going to be a while before we get widespread acceptance and new offerings from manufacturers. And I think we'll see some more manual safety options that allow people to carry hammer down safety off OR cocked and locked without changing any parts, and still keep decocker function as well. I submit sir, that with no major introductions of new DA/SA designs for the last half century, that your statement is the most delusional post in this thread so far. |
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Personally It think the p320 hubub is why SIG has pushed the P365 Fuse into existance and you'll start hearing more about p365 "duty guns" edit: that said they could also go the route similar to glock and introduce a Gen 2 into existence if they feel like they can do it without basically admitting the Gen 1 was potentially dangerously flawed. |
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Glock began as a curtain-rod manufacturer and ended up making pistols. SIG USA makes pistols, but after their handling of this PR disaster will be lucky to end up making curtain-rods.  But in all likely hood if they start losing in court, they might try to declare bankruptcy and reorganize in an attempt to escape lawsuits and liability. |
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Quoted: Wouldn't that involve fixing the P320 though? Quoted: Quoted: IMO they're not looking for a fix, they're looking for a way out. Or at worst, a soft landing. Wouldn't that involve fixing the P320 though? Spinning off the P320 design & production to a group of investors called,"The P320 Company, LLC." 
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Quoted: when your customers include the most of the largest militaries in the world, you can't just "abandon the product and leave all its owners high and dry" Just wait until a Congresscritter gets hold of the newest info and starts hearings on the trails/adoption process. Once that happens, heads will roll regardless of who is actually at fault or if there are real issues at all. Political realities will demand a scapegoat and SIG is making it really easy to put all the blame on them. Who are these "most of the largest militaries in the world"? Other than the US, the only others I'm aware of using the P320 as standard issue are Canada, Australia, and Spain. None of those are even remotely significant militaries. |
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There is no fix. The design is fundamentally bad. The P320 contains really dumb design elements that do not exist on any other pistol in the industry including the P365. It seems pretty obvious that they made compromises converting a DAO hammer gun into a striker gun as quickly and cheaply as possible, and now we see the consequences. |
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Quoted: SIG can go choke itself. The last real handgun that SIG made was a P239. SIG lost me over the 556 debacle - they screwed around with trying to make a good 550 series for the American market, and when they finally did make the gun everyone asked for years for, they discontinued the whole thing. I am still salty about that and have been watching their missteps with disdain since. I have a 556 with the folding stock. Awesome rifle. I wouldn’t buy anything Sig makes today, other than a hammer fired classic P-series. I had a P239 in .357 that I sold like an idiot… |
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Quoted: There is no fix. The design is fundamentally bad. The P320 contains really dumb design elements that do not exist on any other pistol in the industry including the P365. It seems pretty obvious that they made compromises converting a DAO hammer gun into a striker gun as quickly and cheaply as possible, and now we see the consequences. Yep. Already been said. Eventually it will be the trash pile. They will probably do some sort of "trade in" program. |
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Quoted: I think with the new in depth report, and the latest news of more depts dropping it, this will be what finally pushes them to make a drastic change to the gun. Its that or go under. A while back I thought they would go back to the P250 hammer. To expensive and too many parts to replace. I think now it will be a reversal from pre-tensioned striker to a non-pretensioned striker like Glock. Seems moar doable and cost effective (if possible). Just a striker pin and a new trigger bar perhaps to accomplish that? What do you think? a complete/total recall at this point. or they can continue being the joke of the industry. |
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Quoted: Best fix would be a newly designed FCU that uses the same slides and magazines. Call it 321 or something. You would still be stuck with the stupid striker safety, which seems to be the primary problem of the gun. As much as the gun shouldn't go off on its own, the striker should never be allowed to move without the trigger moving first. |
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Quoted: Honestly probably shifting over to the 365 or something. For Sig anyway. Other agencies in the area scoffed when we elected to stay with the P226. Nobody's laughing now. |
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There's a suspence sci-fi movie called Slingshot (2024). The story arc had some real.suspence, but when the captain pulled out a loaded Sig P320 ON THE SPACESHIP, I just spilled popcorn all over the place. Then he started hitting someone with it.. On the spaceship! Good God Man! Most suspenseful film of the year. |
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Quoted:  Quoted: Quoted: Spinning off the P320 design & production to a group of investors called,"The P320 Company, LLC." There's actually a lot of rules around that when the company in question holds a government contract: https://www.acquisition.gov/far/subpart-42.12 The USG could very well tell them no because it has to be done as a "mother may I" change. It definitely sounds like a Sig-thing to do, shuffle off the assets for the toxic 320 and let it die as a separate company, but I don't think the government would allow such a blatant liability dodge for a contractor, no matter which general's palms got crossed with gold. |
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Quoted: At first I didn't think there was an issue. In the beginning it was mostly police, and I figured it was operator error. Too many, with eye witnesses that the pistol was properly in a holster when it fired. You have to think Sig is working on a fix of some kind. Quoted: Quoted: Nothing will change. More denial. More gaslighting. More SigBoy mental gymnastics. At first I didn't think there was an issue. In the beginning it was mostly police, and I figured it was operator error. Too many, with eye witnesses that the pistol was properly in a holster when it fired. You have to think Sig is working on a fix of some kind. I thought it ended months ago? |
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Quoted: Did you post in the correct thread? We’re not talking about Glock, we’re talking about the P320 and its automated ability to neuter its owner. Quoted: Quoted: Glocks are overpriced garbage guns Did you post in the correct thread? We’re not talking about Glock, we’re talking about the P320 and its automated ability to neuter its owner. PARTIALLY neuter the operator. It can only take one ball per shot.
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| My personal hope at this particular point is they do some bow out gracefully "our pistol is absolutely fine but we understand the misleading news has folks concerned, so in the event that you are concerned about our perfectly fine pistol, you can send it to us and we'll replace/exchange it with a P365". But in this imaginary scenario I am admittedly assuming that the P365 does not suffer any of the same or similar issues reported in the P320. |
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Quoted: My personal hope at this particular point is they do some bow out gracefully "our pistol is absolutely fine but we understand the misleading news has folks concerned, so in the event that you are concerned about our perfectly fine pistol, you can send it us and we'll replace it with a P365". But in this imaginary scenario I am admittedly assuming that the P365 does not suffer any of the same or similar issues reported in the P320. No, the 365 won't go off when you don't want it to. It might not go off when you do want it to, however. The SIG P342.5 - the perfect balance in fire control, coming soon! |
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There is no "fix" that Sig could come up with that would absolve them in my mind unless it would involve making present 320 owners whole somehow. I WAS a Sig fanboy. I own four of them including two 320's. I wont spend another dime with them knowing that i am sitting on over $2K between the guns, mags, frames and holsters and now they are basically worthless. There are too many good gun makers with very good guns for me to even look at a Sig again. |
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Quoted: No, the 365 won't go off when you don't want it to. It might not go off when you do want it to, however. The SIG P342.5 - the perfect balance in fire control, coming soon! Hold on now. If you shoot it enough it will start to shake awake. Don't forget that. So it might not go off when you want it to. Or it might go off when you don't want it to. It's a modern plastic SIG. What can I say!   Sig P365 XL Major Trigger Malfunction. |
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Quoted: I think with the new in depth report, and the latest news of more depts dropping it, this will be what finally pushes them to make a drastic change to the gun. Its that or go under. A while back I thought they would go back to the P250 hammer. To expensive and too many parts to replace. I think now it will be a reversal from pre-tensioned striker to a non-pretensioned striker like Glock. Seems moar doable and cost effective (if possible). Just a striker pin and a new trigger bar perhaps to accomplish that? What do you think? A fix?!? hohohehehaha |
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Quoted: There is no "fix" that Sig could come up with that would absolve them in my mind unless it would involve making present 320 owners whole somehow. I WAS a Sig fanboy. I own four of them including two 320's. I wont spend another dime with them knowing that i am sitting on over $2K between the guns, mags, frames and holsters and now they are basically worthless. There are too many good gun makers with very good guns for me to even look at a Sig again. They would have to pay for a whooole lot of testicular reconstruction surgeries. SIG might inadvertently become the market leader in gender affirming surgery. Trannies all around the world will be flocking to SIG for their expertise in penoplasties. Ron Cohen would be wise to take advantage of this new business opportunity. |