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Quoted: What are your thoughts on Sig's internal testing that showed strikes on primers? From the main thread: https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/227964/IMG_4655_jpeg-3486538_jpeg-3517650.JPG That is the most interesting bit I’ve seen thus far, but the Sig report referenced has not been provided and the interpretation of what the test was and what it showed was from plaintiff’s witness. Plaintiff’s witness also did not testify to being able to replicate the malfunction, nor did anyone else in that suit. If and when the actual testing report is available it’ll be easier to understand the full context. |
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Quoted: Well that would be a first. Unless they are reaching in with a dental pick and manually depressing the sear or something, with the trigger jammed halfway back. Which obviously isn't what's happening with these uncommanded discharges. Quoted: The Range staff said they were able to replicate malfunctions that caused a discharge without a finger on the trigger. Well that would be a first. Unless they are reaching in with a dental pick and manually depressing the sear or something, with the trigger jammed halfway back. Which obviously isn't what's happening with these uncommanded discharges. There was on commenter who talked about the Remmy 700 trigger issues and how that played a big part in their bankruptcy after someone got killed when a 700 fired without pulling the trigger. It could be part of why Sig is so tight lipped about it. |
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Quoted: A modified, pre-upgrade gun that the guy beat with a hammer, disassembled and intentionally filled up with metal shavings and shit that would never get into the places he put it, before striking it with a hammer again to get it to fire? Totally representative of normie’s gun going off in their holster without manipulation. Quoted: Quoted: How about yep. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=1b_Up5Ste9c https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=1b_Up5Ste9c A modified, pre-upgrade gun that the guy beat with a hammer, disassembled and intentionally filled up with metal shavings and shit that would never get into the places he put it, before striking it with a hammer again to get it to fire? Totally representative of normie’s gun going off in their holster without manipulation. The purpose of the video isn’t to replicate any uncommanded discharges that have previously occurred, as much as it is to demonstrate that when Sig says it’s impossible for a 320 to fire, unless it trigger is pulled, that that is completely untrue. Would you agree that it’s possible for a Sig 320 to fire without the trigger being pulled? |
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Quoted: The purpose of the video isn't to replicate any uncommanded discharges that have previously occurred, as much as it is to demonstrate that when Sig says it's impossible for a 320 to fire, unless it trigger is pulled, that that is completely untrue. Would you agree that it's possible for an Sig 320 to fire without the trigger being pulled? |
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Quoted: That is the most interesting bit I’ve seen thus far, but the Sig report referenced has not been provided and the interpretation of what the test was and what it showed was from plaintiff’s witness. Plaintiff’s witness also did not testify to being able to replicate the malfunction, nor did anyone else in that suit. If and when the actual testing report is available it’ll be easier to understand the full context. If the characterization of the report was wrong wouldn't Sig have challenged or disputed it in court? |
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Quoted: Well that would be a first. Unless they are reaching in with a dental pick and manually depressing the sear or something, with the trigger jammed halfway back. Which obviously isn't what's happening with these uncommanded discharges. They may have banned it solely on the basis of the striker safety not working |
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Quoted: The purpose of the video isn’t to replicate any uncommanded discharges that have previously occurred, as much as it is to demonstrate that when Sig says it’s impossible for a 320 to fire, unless it trigger is pulled, that that is completely untrue. Would you agree that it’s possible for a Sig 320 to fire without the trigger being pulled? It was a garbage ass video as already stated above. It proved nothing. Give us a video of a p320 in a holster going off on its own clear as day and then shown what caused it. I mean clear as day, not from a weird angle or not even showing it as it goes off. Not with a gun disassembled or beat with a hammer or poked with a small pick. Someone somewhere should be able to make one right? |
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Quoted: You know, I have really like my P365 and I generally don't judge a gun I already own and have experience with by the behavior of the company, but SIG is being such a bagful of assholes about this, it makes me want to sell the damned thing. I think this is a more valid response, pointing out the way sig has been handling it. It has not helped them at all |
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Quoted: Yep Dont think a Glock can be fired without pulling the trigger. Quoted: Quoted: If you get one of the inspection backplates you can observe the striker/sear relationship in a Glock. Dont think a Glock can be fired without pulling the trigger. The ledge in the drop safety on a Glock will not allow the cruciform to fall, unless the trigger is pulled. Unless there’s actual physical breakage of the trigger bar of some sort. In addition, you also have the firing pin safety plunger that is activated, unless the trigger is pulled. |
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OP have you been under a rock for the past year? The P320 has a huge amount of controversy and appears/is unsafe. No idea why any Officer today would carry one in an official capacity today unless they are forced to. The dominos are starting to fall and it wont be long now until Sig is forced into a redesign I expect. Wait until the lawsuit moves into court where a guy got killed by his 320 carrying it AWIB, that will be game over. My mistake. just saw it was not the OP posting but posting someone else's post here. My apologies. |
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Quoted: It was a garbage ass video as already stated above. It proved nothing. Give us a video of a p320 in a holster going off on its own clear as day and then shown what caused it. I mean clear as day, not from a weird angle or not even showing it as it goes off. Not with a gun disassembled or beat with a hammer or poked with a small pick. Someone somewhere should be able to make one right? Quoted: Quoted: The purpose of the video isn’t to replicate any uncommanded discharges that have previously occurred, as much as it is to demonstrate that when Sig says it’s impossible for a 320 to fire, unless it trigger is pulled, that that is completely untrue. Would you agree that it’s possible for a Sig 320 to fire without the trigger being pulled? It was a garbage ass video as already stated above. It proved nothing. Give us a video of a p320 in a holster going off on its own clear as day and then shown what caused it. I mean clear as day, not from a weird angle or not even showing it as it goes off. Not with a gun disassembled or beat with a hammer or poked with a small pick. Someone somewhere should be able to make one right? Don’t strain your back while you’re moving those goalposts. It most certainly proved that a 320 can fire without the trigger being pulled. But you don’t have to admit it. Because I didn’t think you would. |
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Quoted: Manual safety has jack shit to do with it since .mil P320s are going off too. Quoted: Quoted: Love my Flux Raider, but it has a manual safety and lives in a bag. Personally I wouldn’t carry a 320 pointed at my junk or vital arteries every day. Manual safety has jack shit to do with it since .mil P320s are going off too. Welp, hasn’t gone off on it’s own yet. If it does it’ll be pointed down range or in a sling bag pointed away from me. |
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Quoted: Having a bit of a hard time believing that Joe Training Officer at Denver PD is the first person to successfully induce and replicate an uncommanded P320 discharge and yet somehow there’s no video or supporting evidence aside from a gay Reddit post. Should be having a hard time with the fact they didn't document it with a video |
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Quoted: Don’t strain your back while you’re moving those goalposts. It most certainly proved that a 320 can fire without the trigger being pulled. But you don’t have to admit it. Because I didn’t think you would. Imagine defending a consumer product so hard.  There’s only how many pistols to pick from but 320 fans think they have something special. |
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Quoted: Don’t strain your back while you’re moving those goalposts. It most certainly proved that a 320 can fire without the trigger being pulled. But you don’t have to admit it. Because I didn’t think you would. I asked you to show me a proper video. You either can or can not. But it seems it is easier for you to just get mad at anyone that does not agree with your half ass video and opinion that does not have any actual facts to back it up |
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That picture would be way funnier if it was a guy standing over the horse with a holstered P320. |
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Quoted: Imagine defending a consumer product so hard. There’s only how many pistols to pick from but 320 fans think they have something special. Quoted: Quoted: Don’t strain your back while you’re moving those goalposts. It most certainly proved that a 320 can fire without the trigger being pulled. But you don’t have to admit it. Because I didn’t think you would. Imagine defending a consumer product so hard. There’s only how many pistols to pick from but 320 fans think they have something special. I think in some cases they’re defending their employer. In the big thread, there was mention of a member who trashed Sig and got Arocked at the gun store where he worked. No one likes to admit that something they like might be unsafe or not as well designed as it could be. But making that argument is very different than someone who is intentionally shilling for their employer who has painted themselves in a corner that they can’t get out of. |
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Quoted: Imagine defending a consumer product so hard. There’s only how many pistols to pick from but 320 fans think they have something special. Imagine bashing a product you don’t like and have no experience with aside from second hand info so hard here. I am not defending sig til my last breath. I just want someone to actually show a proper video showing it go off and then they take that exact bone stock pistol in its correct holster and then break it down and show what failed. It should be very easy to do. With all these pistols going off someone should be tearing those pistols down to show us. I have around 30 pistols in the safe. 2 are p320. 10 are Glocks. So don’t assume I am an sig fan boy. I just want to see some more clear proof of what is happening. I already said sig is not handling this good at all. |
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Quoted: I asked you to show me a proper video. You either can or can not. But it seems it is easier for you to just get mad at anyone that does not agree with your half ass video and opinion that does not have any actual facts to back it up Quoted: Quoted: Don’t strain your back while you’re moving those goalposts. It most certainly proved that a 320 can fire without the trigger being pulled. But you don’t have to admit it. Because I didn’t think you would. I asked you to show me a proper video. You either can or can not. But it seems it is easier for you to just get mad at anyone that does not agree with your half ass video and opinion that does not have any actual facts to back it up I think you’re the one getting a bit worked up. Last month Sig made a comment that it’s impossible for the 320 to fire without the trigger being pulled. That is the basis for my argument. All I’m saying is that has been proven to be untrue. If you would like to say that you watched that entire video, and the gun did not fire without the trigger being pulled, there’s not much more we can discuss. |
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Quoted: I think in some cases they’re defending their employer. In the big thread, there was mention of a member who trashed Sig and got Arocked at the gun store where he worked. No one likes to admit that something they like might be unsafe or not as well designed as it could be. But making that argument is very different than someone who is intentionally shilling for their employer who has painted themselves in a corner that they can’t get out of. Lol. We work for sig now? Making assumptions like that is putting yourself into a corner. It’s like you are so mad that you are just throwing out wild shit while in your corner. Throw out some real facts in a post instead of assumptions or outlandish claims of people you don’t even know |
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Quoted: I think you’re the one getting a bit worked up. Last month Sig made a comment that it’s impossible for the 320 to fire without the trigger being pulled. That is the basis for my argument. All I’m saying is that has been proven to be untrue. If you would like to say that you watched that entire video, and the gun did not fire without the trigger being pulled, there’s not much more we can discuss. The video was trash. Dipshit fucking around with a slide poking shit means nothing to me. If it was a Glock and fired I would say the same thing. Put the fucking gun back together and put it in a holster and get it to fire on its own. That’s it. What are you not understanding here? |
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Quoted: The purpose of the video isn’t to replicate any uncommanded discharges that have previously occurred, as much as it is to demonstrate that when Sig says it’s impossible for a 320 to fire, unless it trigger is pulled, that that is completely untrue. Would you agree that it’s possible for a Sig 320 to fire without the trigger being pulled? That's kind of a crazy place to be arguing from. Give me a Dremel and some time to tinker and I'll doctor up a Glock to fire without the trigger being pulled too, by cutting off 60% of the striker hook, jamming the firing pin block up with metal shavings, and wedging the trigger back 1/4", thus making it POSSIBLE to fire just by tapping it lightly with a hammer without the trigger being "pulled." Of course it's POSSIBLE to make any gun fire without the trigger pulled. Just how outlandish does it have to be before it's unreasonable to believe it would occur organically? I'd say packing metal shavings into the guts, cutting the sear surface shy and gingerly staging a gun on the cusp of firing would be over the line for me. |
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Quoted: The video was trash. Dipshit fucking around with a slide poking shit means nothing to me. If it was a Glock and fired I would say the same thing. Put the fucking gun back together and put it in a holster and get it to fire on its own. That’s it. What are you not understanding here? OOH you're getting big mad.. Go for a walk. |
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Quoted: Was wondering what happened to all the actblue shills and Indian bot farms. Guess Sig put in new marching orders. Makes sense though that a made in India company would use Indian bot farms tho tbh...  lol. Sig sucks ass with the way they are handling things and I suspect pistol sales are going to plummet. Regardless if it is warranted or not. It’s how the internet works once something spreads. Guess I won’t be getting a sig check now since I said they suck ass, right? |
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Quoted: Imagine bashing a product you don’t like and have no experience with aside from second hand info so hard here. I am not defending sig til my last breath. I just want someone to actually show a proper video showing it go off and then they take that exact bone stock pistol in its correct holster and then break it down and show what failed. It should be very easy to do. With all these pistols going off someone should be tearing those pistols down to show us. I have around 30 pistols in the safe. 2 are p320. 10 are Glocks. So don’t assume I am an sig fan boy. I just want to see some more clear proof of what is happening. I already said sig is not handling this good at all. Ya I had one, it sucked. I wasn’t going to wade through all the recalls and try and guess if it was safe or not. What a joke. |
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Quoted: That's kind of a crazy place to be arguing from. Give me a Dremel and some time to tinker and I'll doctor up a Glock to fire without the trigger being pulled too, by cutting off 60% of the striker hook, jamming the firing pin block up with metal shavings, and wedging the trigger back 1/4", thus making it POSSIBLE to fire just by tapping it lightly with a hammer without the trigger being "pulled." Of course it's POSSIBLE to make any gun fire without the trigger pulled. Just how outlandish does it have to be before it's unreasonable to believe it would occur organically? I'd say packing metal shavings into the guts, cutting the sear surface shy and gingerly staging a gun on the cusp of firing would be over the line for me. Quoted: Quoted: The purpose of the video isn’t to replicate any uncommanded discharges that have previously occurred, as much as it is to demonstrate that when Sig says it’s impossible for a 320 to fire, unless it trigger is pulled, that that is completely untrue. Would you agree that it’s possible for a Sig 320 to fire without the trigger being pulled? That's kind of a crazy place to be arguing from. Give me a Dremel and some time to tinker and I'll doctor up a Glock to fire without the trigger being pulled too, by cutting off 60% of the striker hook, jamming the firing pin block up with metal shavings, and wedging the trigger back 1/4", thus making it POSSIBLE to fire just by tapping it lightly with a hammer without the trigger being "pulled." Of course it's POSSIBLE to make any gun fire without the trigger pulled. Just how outlandish does it have to be before it's unreasonable to believe it would occur organically? I'd say packing metal shavings into the guts, cutting the sear surface shy and gingerly staging a gun on the cusp of firing would be over the line for me. You lack comprehension of what's occurring. They're manipulating the sear to replicate a sear failure/actuation without the trigger being pulled. The test is to see if the striker block functions. The concerning thing is that it may work intermittently. Or worse, it may work 100% in your gun, but if you swap your striker assembly to another stock striker assembly, the striker safety in that may not function in your gun. So the only thing preventing a discharge is the sear engagement. |
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Quoted: I was thinking about getting an M17/18 but I think I'll wait a little. I have a m18. Had a m17. Mine has not gone off yet. Maybe one day. That being said I wouldn’t buy another sig at this point after seeing some of the things coming out about sig such as their stupid social media responses and of course the thing about one of the members here being arocked by them apparently. That sounds extremely shitty for a company to do |
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Quoted: It was a garbage ass video as already stated above. It proved nothing. Give us a video of a p320 in a holster going off on its own clear as day and then shown what caused it. I mean clear as day, not from a weird angle or not even showing it as it goes off. Not with a gun disassembled or beat with a hammer or poked with a small pick. Someone somewhere should be able to make one right? Quoted: Quoted: The purpose of the video isn’t to replicate any uncommanded discharges that have previously occurred, as much as it is to demonstrate that when Sig says it’s impossible for a 320 to fire, unless it trigger is pulled, that that is completely untrue. Would you agree that it’s possible for a Sig 320 to fire without the trigger being pulled? It was a garbage ass video as already stated above. It proved nothing. Give us a video of a p320 in a holster going off on its own clear as day and then shown what caused it. I mean clear as day, not from a weird angle or not even showing it as it goes off. Not with a gun disassembled or beat with a hammer or poked with a small pick. Someone somewhere should be able to make one right? If you think it proved nothing then you might not be smart enough to converse here. |
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Quoted: Imagine bashing a product you don’t like and have no experience with aside from second hand info so hard here. I am not defending sig til my last breath. I just want someone to actually show a proper video showing it go off and then they take that exact bone stock pistol in its correct holster and then break it down and show what failed. It should be very easy to do. With all these pistols going off someone should be tearing those pistols down to show us. I have around 30 pistols in the safe. 2 are p320. 10 are Glocks. So don’t assume I am an sig fan boy. I just want to see some more clear proof of what is happening. I already said sig is not handling this good at all. Then it was repeatable. I bet if someone looked, we'd find that some who did the "it's not repeatable" thing have gone quiet, some have changed their minds, and some ... moved the goalposts. So if somone does what you've said ... what then? |
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Quoted: Ya I had one, it sucked. I wasn’t going to wade through all the recalls and try and guess if it was safe or not. What a joke. I get that. It makes sense. If you don’t feel confident about your pistol there is no point in having it when there are so many other great choices out there. I do not carry my p320s at all anymore. They just sit in the safe |
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Quoted: If you think it proved nothing then you might not be smart enough to converse here. Guess not. I don’t have that back ground in firearms design and manufacturing like most of you here seem to have. But I’m going to keep conversing here anyways. Hit the ignore button on me if you don’t like it, that’s about all you can do. |
| Something I think of, alot of us would sell a new truck at a loss if it had a gas tank issue or a known main bearing issue or whatever no matter however rare if several documented trucks caught fire. If you get it fixed and your fine with it, go ahead and eat. Just know people will certainly see it as a liability, even if its blown out of proportion, and they certainly are extremely extended right now they have to be white knuckling it. |
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Quoted: I have a m18. Had a m17. Mine has not gone off yet. Maybe one day. That being said I wouldn’t buy another sig at this point after seeing some of the things coming out about sig such as their stupid social media responses and of course the thing about one of the members here being arocked by them apparently. That sounds extremely shitty for a company to do Almost as shitty as selling guns that you know can discharge on their own. Sig is doing nothing other than trying to keep a contract and avoid thermal drift treatment from the DOD. Indian MIM/tolerance stacking + historically comical striker block design + springs being the only thing keeping your sear in place + no trigger safety + narrow trigger guard = P320!!!!!! Sig has played their hand, and they care more about contracts and money over those who chose and or are forced to carry their pistol. Glad I sold all of mine a few years back. |
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Quoted: People also said this sort of thing ... but it was "the failure isn't repeatable." Then it was repeatable. I bet if someone looked, we'd find that some who did the "it's not repeatable" thing have gone quiet, some have changed their minds, and some ... moved the goalposts. So if somone does what you've said ... what then? If it was done properly I would say ok it was done. Point proven. But you can not sit there with a clear head and think the way they are testing it in these videos is the same thing as it being in a holster going off on its own. I just can’t understand why so many here are so against anyone questioning the way the tests are being done. Why do we just have to believe things without some more proper testing? I’m confident someone here or elsewhere could make a better video test for us. |
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Quoted: Almost as shitty as selling guns that you know can discharge on their own. Sig is doing nothing other than trying to keep a contract and avoid thermal drift treatment from the DOD. Indian MIM/tolerance stacking + historically comical striker block design + springs being the only thing keeping your sear in place + no trigger safety + narrow trigger guard = P320!!!!!! Sig has played their hand, and they care more about contracts and money over those who chose and or are forced to carry their pistol. Glad I sold all of mine a few years back. I agree with your post. Sig knows more about the p320 than anyone else. If there is an issue they should know about it. So if they are covering it up to keep contracts that is bad as well. There are plenty of people that do not like sig and would love to see them fail so all they have to do is make a legit video showing the issues so sig will not be able to counter it |