[ARCHIVED THREAD] - SIG can't get a break. Another one! (Page 4 of 4)
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Quoted: How many videos of this failure do you need? Lots of videos of the 320 going bang without touching the trigger.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hsljmVh-GFQQuoted: Quoted: Edited Go take a P320 and jar it, smack it, drop it, do everything you can to make the striker slip. Be sure to film it and share it. If you can get it to slip, you can show everyone the exact conditions. If it could be done, someone would've shown it already. Additionally, your genius engineering mind is forgetting about the striker safety that moves in the opposite direction needed for the sear to slip. Looks to me like she probably jammed the pistol down. It would bet she had a foreign object stuck in the holster, it would push the pistol down against it, pulling the trigger. How many videos of this failure do you need? Lots of videos of the 320 going bang without touching the trigger. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hsljmVh-GFQAnd you’re clearly someone that doesn’t understand the difference between the original drop issue and the current one. You’re exactly who doesn’t need to be talking because you don’t even know what you’re talking about. You’re like 7 years late with that. That was an issue that was repeatable, the issue identified and a fix offered. Since you probably don’t know, the problems wasn’t the sear slipping like our esteemed “engineer” claims has poor engagement. It was due to the trigger being pulled. I’m sure you are completely puzzled because clearly no one’s finger was near the trigger there! Yeah, physics did it. I’m not gonna bother explaining it because I’m quite sure you’ve moved on to other threads, thinking you’re really smart. But SIG went back to the drawing board and redesigned it. Frankly, I didn’t like their initial design due to how the trigger reset even before the -30 drop issue came to light. I was glad they switched to a more conventional system with a disconnector. But all those words are probably meaningless to you. |
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Quoted: And you’re clearly someone that doesn’t understand the difference between the original drop issue and the current one. You’re exactly who doesn’t need to be talking because you don’t even know what you’re talking about. You’re like 7 years late with that. That was an issue that was repeatable, the issue identified and a fix offered. Since you probably don’t know, the problems wasn’t the sear slipping like our esteemed “engineer” claims has poor engagement. It was due to the trigger being pulled. I’m sure you are completely puzzled because clearly no one’s finger was near the trigger there! Yeah, physics did it. I’m not gonna bother explaining it because I’m quite sure you’ve moved on to other threads, thinking you’re really smart. But SIG went back to the drawing board and redesigned it. Frankly, I didn’t like their initial design due to how the trigger reset even before the -30 drop issue came to light. I was glad they switched to a more conventional system with a disconnector. But all those words are probably meaningless to you. Are you and MK318 brothers? |
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Quoted: Are you seriously saying that it’s acceptable for a pistol to discharge if something brushes against the butt of the grip while holstered? Did you seriously stop reading after the part that triggered you? “You can't go blaming Sig or the 320 when there was incidental contact with the back of the gun. Any gun that says Sig 320 on it would discharge under those conditions.” |
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Quoted: And you’re clearly someone that doesn’t understand the difference between the original drop issue and the current one. You’re exactly who doesn’t need to be talking because you don’t even know what you’re talking about. You’re like 7 years late with that. That was an issue that was repeatable, the issue identified and a fix offered. Since you probably don’t know, the problems wasn’t the sear slipping like our esteemed “engineer” claims has poor engagement. It was due to the trigger being pulled. I’m sure you are completely puzzled because clearly no one’s finger was near the trigger there! Yeah, physics did it. I’m not gonna bother explaining it because I’m quite sure you’ve moved on to other threads, thinking you’re really smart. But SIG went back to the drawing board and redesigned it. Frankly, I didn’t like their initial design due to how the trigger reset even before the -30 drop issue came to light. I was glad they switched to a more conventional system with a disconnector. But all those words are probably meaningless to you. Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Edited Go take a P320 and jar it, smack it, drop it, do everything you can to make the striker slip. Be sure to film it and share it. If you can get it to slip, you can show everyone the exact conditions. If it could be done, someone would've shown it already. Additionally, your genius engineering mind is forgetting about the striker safety that moves in the opposite direction needed for the sear to slip. Looks to me like she probably jammed the pistol down. It would bet she had a foreign object stuck in the holster, it would push the pistol down against it, pulling the trigger. How many videos of this failure do you need? Lots of videos of the 320 going bang without touching the trigger. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hsljmVh-GFQAnd you’re clearly someone that doesn’t understand the difference between the original drop issue and the current one. You’re exactly who doesn’t need to be talking because you don’t even know what you’re talking about. You’re like 7 years late with that. That was an issue that was repeatable, the issue identified and a fix offered. Since you probably don’t know, the problems wasn’t the sear slipping like our esteemed “engineer” claims has poor engagement. It was due to the trigger being pulled. I’m sure you are completely puzzled because clearly no one’s finger was near the trigger there! Yeah, physics did it. I’m not gonna bother explaining it because I’m quite sure you’ve moved on to other threads, thinking you’re really smart. But SIG went back to the drawing board and redesigned it. Frankly, I didn’t like their initial design due to how the trigger reset even before the -30 drop issue came to light. I was glad they switched to a more conventional system with a disconnector. But all those words are probably meaningless to you. Dude, I can't speak for everyone obviously, but I don't know anyone other than a guy at the Rocky Mountain Sports in Cody who believes that the current issues are operator error. |
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Quoted: And you’re clearly someone that doesn’t understand the difference between the original drop issue and the current one. You’re exactly who doesn’t need to be talking because you don’t even know what you’re talking about. You’re like 7 years late with that. That was an issue that was repeatable, the issue identified and a fix offered. Since you probably don’t know, the problems wasn’t the sear slipping like our esteemed “engineer” claims has poor engagement. It was due to the trigger being pulled. I’m sure you are completely puzzled because clearly no one’s finger was near the trigger there! Yeah, physics did it. I’m not gonna bother explaining it because I’m quite sure you’ve moved on to other threads, thinking you’re really smart. But SIG went back to the drawing board and redesigned it. Frankly, I didn’t like their initial design due to how the trigger reset even before the -30 drop issue came to light. I was glad they switched to a more conventional system with a disconnector. But all those words are probably meaningless to you. 
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Quoted: And you’re clearly someone that doesn’t understand the difference between the original drop issue and the current one. You’re exactly who doesn’t need to be talking because you don’t even know what you’re talking about. You’re like 7 years late with that. That was an issue that was repeatable, the issue identified and a fix offered. Since you probably don’t know, the problems wasn’t the sear slipping like our esteemed “engineer” claims has poor engagement. It was due to the trigger being pulled. I’m sure you are completely puzzled because clearly no one’s finger was near the trigger there! Yeah, physics did it. I’m not gonna bother explaining it because I’m quite sure you’ve moved on to other threads, thinking you’re really smart. But SIG went back to the drawing board and redesigned it. Frankly, I didn’t like their initial design due to how the trigger reset even before the -30 drop issue came to light. I was glad they switched to a more conventional system with a disconnector. But all those words are probably meaningless to you. I'm sorry your Sig stock is taking a beating. The video I linked was the first one of many that popped up, I didn't pay attention to the date since the self discharge issue is still happening with these pistols. The 320 is banned from local action pistol shoots for this reason. Did Sig recall the original pistols for a KNOWN defect?,, no they offered a "voluntary upgrade program". What a joke! The fact is that these pistols are still going off when dropped or jostled without the trigger being manipulated. How many pistols are out there without the "voluntary upgrade program" completed??? Like I said earlier, I was done with Sig when they wouldn't take back a Sig Mosquito I bought new that wouldn't run any brand of ammo. Please keep shilling for Sig. *click* |
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Quoted: And you’re clearly someone that doesn’t understand the difference between the original drop issue and the current one. You’re exactly who doesn’t need to be talking because you don’t even know what you’re talking about. You’re like 7 years late with that. That was an issue that was repeatable, the issue identified and a fix offered. Since you probably don’t know, the problems wasn’t the sear slipping like our esteemed “engineer” claims has poor engagement. It was due to the trigger being pulled. I’m sure you are completely puzzled because clearly no one’s finger was near the trigger there! Yeah, physics did it. I’m not gonna bother explaining it because I’m quite sure you’ve moved on to other threads, thinking you’re really smart. But SIG went back to the drawing board and redesigned it. Frankly, I didn’t like their initial design due to how the trigger reset even before the -30 drop issue came to light. I was glad they switched to a more conventional system with a disconnector. But all those words are probably meaningless to you. LOL. Your still shilling for SIG. Man you have the SIGness. LOL. |
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Quoted: LOL. Your still shilling for SIG. Man you have the SIGness. LOL. Quoted: Quoted: And you’re clearly someone that doesn’t understand the difference between the original drop issue and the current one. You’re exactly who doesn’t need to be talking because you don’t even know what you’re talking about. You’re like 7 years late with that. That was an issue that was repeatable, the issue identified and a fix offered. Since you probably don’t know, the problems wasn’t the sear slipping like our esteemed “engineer” claims has poor engagement. It was due to the trigger being pulled. I’m sure you are completely puzzled because clearly no one’s finger was near the trigger there! Yeah, physics did it. I’m not gonna bother explaining it because I’m quite sure you’ve moved on to other threads, thinking you’re really smart. But SIG went back to the drawing board and redesigned it. Frankly, I didn’t like their initial design due to how the trigger reset even before the -30 drop issue came to light. I was glad they switched to a more conventional system with a disconnector. But all those words are probably meaningless to you. LOL. Your still shilling for SIG. Man you have the SIGness. LOL. I took his post as excellent sarcasm. If that was real he needs help. |
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Quoted: With a 1:10 rate, right into your leg. Quoted: Quoted: Wonder how Sig will try to spin this?  With a 1:10 rate, right into your leg. Attached File |
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Quoted: It sure did. It bumped the grip. Quoted: Quoted: Not an sig fan but obviously the backpack did something to cause the gun to discharge. It sure did. It bumped the grip. Well obviously while she was walking to the car, the strap of the backpack entered the holster and wrapped itself around the trigger, in defiance of the laws of physics. Had there been no backpack, it would have been some other unseen interference, as it always seems to be with 320s. |
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Quoted: Knock it off -Skg Go take a P320 and jar it, smack it, drop it, do everything you can to make the striker slip. Be sure to film it and share it. If you can get it to slip, you can show everyone the exact conditions. If it could be done, someone would've shown it already. Additionally, your genius engineering mind is forgetting about the striker safety that moves in the opposite direction needed for the sear to slip. Looks to me like she probably jammed the pistol down. It would bet she had a foreign object stuck in the holster, it would push the pistol down against it, pulling the trigger. Lol, sig apologist in da house. How many sigs have "just gone off" due to foreign objects in their holsters? Why is that number higher than almost all other defensive(carried) pistols combined? Thats called a clue. Also the striker safety plunger has been shown to have a decently high failure rate and when it does "work" it is just providing a cunt hair of overlap to stop a striker that slips off sear. |
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Quoted: Knock it off -Skg Go take a P320 and jar it, smack it, drop it, do everything you can to make the striker slip. Be sure to film it and share it. If you can get it to slip, you can show everyone the exact conditions. If it could be done, someone would've shown it already. Additionally, your genius engineering mind is forgetting about the striker safety that moves in the opposite direction needed for the sear to slip. Looks to me like she probably jammed the pistol down. It would bet she had a foreign object stuck in the holster, it would push the pistol down against it, pulling the trigger. You really don't beleive what you posted, do you? I don't love Glock and I don't hate Sig. But this isn't going to ND on any day until Sig admits the design is FUBAR and makes the necessary design changes. |
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Quoted: There has been military NDs. Quoted: Quoted: So why is it only cops shooting themselves? Granted I don't follow this all with bated breath, but I don't recall hearing many if any reports of anyone in the military getting shot by their own SIG. Nor any civilians. Genuinely curious if there is a higher percentage of LEO self shootings per hour of carry vs military or civilian. And is it higher for men or women? And I'm hearing more about them here than through official channels. It's damn near a communications blackout on the .mil side. When first issued, we (Air Force) had a rash of NDs at the clearing barrels. That went away after people were Officially, I'm not hearing crap about them going off in the holster now. I'm going to require all of my people to carry a CAT when armed with an M18. The guys wearing gear already do, but those of us working staff positions normally don't. It can't hurt. 
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Quoted: And I'm hearing more about them here than through official channels. It's damn near a communications blackout on the .mil side. When first issued, we (Air Force) had a rash of NDs at the clearing barrels. That went away after people were Officially, I'm not hearing crap about them going off in the holster now. I'm going to require all of my people to carry a CAT when armed with an M18. The guys wearing gear already do, but those of us working staff positions normally don't. It can't hurt. Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: So why is it only cops shooting themselves? Granted I don't follow this all with bated breath, but I don't recall hearing many if any reports of anyone in the military getting shot by their own SIG. Nor any civilians. Genuinely curious if there is a higher percentage of LEO self shootings per hour of carry vs military or civilian. And is it higher for men or women? And I'm hearing more about them here than through official channels. It's damn near a communications blackout on the .mil side. When first issued, we (Air Force) had a rash of NDs at the clearing barrels. That went away after people were Officially, I'm not hearing crap about them going off in the holster now. I'm going to require all of my people to carry a CAT when armed with an M18. The guys wearing gear already do, but those of us working staff positions normally don't. It can't hurt. I just carry a CAT all the time on my belt. The one time I saw someone fall over after being hit I didn't have a CAT on me. Fortunately, she didn't need it. |
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Quoted: And I'm hearing more about them here than through official channels. It's damn near a communications blackout on the .mil side. When first issued, we (Air Force) had a rash of NDs at the clearing barrels. That went away after people were Officially, I'm not hearing crap about them going off in the holster now. I'm going to require all of my people to carry a CAT when armed with an M18. The guys wearing gear already do, but those of us working staff positions normally don't. It can't hurt. That's a great idea if you/they are forced to carry the 320. |
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Quoted: I believe the issue is tied into not using the slide lock during reassembly as stated in the manual. Several videos exist showing the link to how the discharge can happen if you fail to correctly reassemble after maintenance. Then *that* is a design flaw, as all service pistol designs in more than 50-60 years have made it impossible to assemble incorrectly and create a dangerous situation. |
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Quoted: Wonder if the backpack strap went into the holster. The sig trigger guard is narrow and the opening on the holster is huge. You can often fit a finger in it while holstered. It has to be in order to fit the light...but it allows cords to drop into the holster.
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Quoted: Meh not sure I buy it based on this vid. Not buy what? She didn't pull the trigger. Her hand was sliding a backpack off her shoulder into the car. Glocks? S&W M&P/HK striker fired guns seem to survive impacts and gun grabs which would exert plenty of force on a holster no problem. No gun should go if with normal jostling/handle contact. Period.  |
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Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Wonder if the backpack strap went into the holster. The sig trigger guard is narrow and the opening on the holster is huge. You can often fit a finger in it while holstered. It has to be in order to fit the light...but it allows cords to drop into the holster. We are going to start having to have a holster to hold our holster, which covers every angle from intrusion of foreign objects. This shit is happening every other day. Those damn holster manufacturers need to make a better product!!! |
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Quoted: And you're clearly someone that doesn't understand the difference between the original drop issue and the current one. You're exactly who doesn't need to be talking because you don't even know what you're talking about. You're like 7 years late with that. That was an issue that was repeatable, the issue identified and a fix offered. Since you probably don't know, the problems wasn't the sear slipping like our esteemed "engineer" claims has poor engagement. It was due to the trigger being pulled. I'm sure you are completely puzzled because clearly no one's finger was near the trigger there! Yeah, physics did it. I'm not gonna bother explaining it because I'm quite sure you've moved on to other threads, thinking you're really smart. But SIG went back to the drawing board and redesigned it. Frankly, I didn't like their initial design due to how the trigger reset even before the -30 drop issue came to light. I was glad they switched to a more conventional system with a disconnector. But all those words are probably meaningless to you.  |
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Quoted: And I'm hearing more about them here than through official channels. It's damn near a communications blackout on the .mil side. When first issued, we (Air Force) had a rash of NDs at the clearing barrels. That went away after people were Officially, I'm not hearing crap about them going off in the holster now. I'm going to require all of my people to carry a CAT when armed with an M18. The guys wearing gear already do, but those of us working staff positions normally don't. It can't hurt. |
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I’m still trying to determine if this is an actual issue, or just a scale issue. 3.8mil 320s in the wild. +-300 incidents That’s the math we start with. The little world of contacts the gun store I work for has experienced 7 of those 300. ALL were disproven as mechanical issues. Usually it was dumbass issues. That’s a small number, but it does cast doubt on some of the other incidents. In that same little world, Shadow Systems replaced 2 frames for us that blew out the sides with normal ammunition. Shadow Systems has shipped way less than 3.8mil units. Is it possible we just have a math problem here? That the lineup is not nearly as dangerous as reported, and a totally normal number of QC issues get blown out of proportion? With that said, as someone who milled their own 320, I think the 320 is an absolutely dogshit design that is unnecessarily complicated, has an unnecessarily light trigger, has an unnecessarily DIFFERENT firing pin block, and it wouldn’t surprise me in the least if Indian QC was just NORMALLY mixing up 45 and 9 parts and had totally mistranslated the sear design. |
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Quoted: Are you seriously saying that it’s acceptable for a pistol to discharge if something brushes against the butt of the grip while holstered? I've been entertained by the ones who think a gun getting bumped is perfectly acceptable for them discharge from such activities. Cop guns get bumped ALL the time. They are not supposed to go bang from such activities. |
| I do have to say that all the M17s that I had in my Battalion I commanded never had an issue. Granted I was just the commander we shot a lot of pistol rounds because we had to get all the soldiers qualified on the M17 since it was a new handgun and I was able to get a lot of M882 from associate units before we replaced it with m1152. Granted we went over the correct way to clean and assemble the system. |
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Quoted: I am so done with SIG. I am sitting on two P320's, several holsters and a bunch of mags. I wont even take them to the range much less carry them I also have a couple of the Romeo RDS's and a couple Foxtrot lights. They'll never see another dime from me.  You are not alone. I know several people who went in heavy on the 320 and are doing the same. Basically sitting on the guns and gear, waiting to see what shakes out. My take, the chance of something happening is low, but there are enough options out there where you dont need to take that chance - so why take it. |
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I remember when the 320’s came out and several people suggested I had mental deficiencies for not getting on the Sig bandwagon and just continuing to carry Glocks. A couple of them still stubbornly insist that it’s the best pistol ever. I’m glad I didn’t take their advice. |
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Quoted: As a Machinist and Mechanical Engineer. These guns go off by themselves because they use a pre cocked striker making the trigger pull lighter and dont have enough sear engagement and just jiggling the damn thing makes it go off. There is a reason Glock pistols are so safe. They require a long trigger pull to physcially pull back the striker to a designated point building up enough spring tension to fire the primer. These P320s I said from the beginning are going to be a problem. Some General at the Pentagon got kick backs from SIG to adopt this garbage pistol. Doesn’t the Walther PPQ and PDP also use a pre-cocked striker? |
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Quoted: I’m still trying to determine if this is an actual issue, or just a scale issue. 3.8mil 320s in the wild. +-300 incidents That’s the math we start with. The little world of contacts the gun store I work for has experienced 7 of those 300. ALL were disproven as mechanical issues. Usually it was dumbass issues. That’s a small number, but it does cast doubt on some of the other incidents. In that same little world, Shadow Systems replaced 2 frames for us that blew out the sides with normal ammunition. Shadow Systems has shipped way less than 3.8mil units. Is it possible we just have a math problem here? That the lineup is not nearly as dangerous as reported, and a totally normal number of QC issues get blown out of proportion? With that said, as someone who milled their own 320, I think the 320 is an absolutely dogshit design that is unnecessarily complicated, has an unnecessarily light trigger, has an unnecessarily DIFFERENT firing pin block, and it wouldn’t surprise me in the least if Indian QC was just NORMALLY mixing up 45 and 9 parts and had totally mistranslated the sear design. All 7 of the SIGsidents you're aware of: 1) Had the correct safety takedown magazine block lever installed; 2) Passed the punch test of the striker block; 3) Didn't perch the striker on a false sear when assembled differently than SIG specifies in their manual? Given that all of the above information has come to light in the last 3 months, when you say all 7 SIGsidents were proven to not be mechanical issues, are you saying that all 7 occurred in the last 3 months? |
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Quoted: As a Machinist and Mechanical Engineer. These guns go off by themselves because they use a pre cocked striker making the trigger pull lighter and dont have enough sear engagement and just jiggling the damn thing makes it go off. There is a reason Glock pistols are so safe. They require a long trigger pull to physcially pull back the striker to a designated point building up enough spring tension to fire the primer. These P320s I said from the beginning are going to be a problem. Some General at the Pentagon got kick backs from SIG to adopt this garbage pistol. Don't they have striker blocks though? Glock has one in addition to the undercocked striker. |