[ARCHIVED THREAD] - SIG “ The P320. It ends today.” (Page 51 of 142)
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That sucks for them considering CPD has to personally purchase their duty weapons. |
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Oof.....Whether it's justified or not Sig is going to have to address the allegations or its goingvto continue to snowball. I say that as a Sig fan and multiple 320 owner. |
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A stand-up company would offer a free trade to a P365 (assuming that were an authorized duty weapon?). Kharn |
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Quoted: That sucks for them considering CPD has to personally purchase their duty weapons. Quoted: That sucks for them considering CPD has to personally purchase their duty weapons. It won't affect the ones that didn't choose poorly. 
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Source? Didn’t find anything in a quick google search |
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The part of not maintaining them was so accurate. Went to a neat little spot at Ft Story for this sorta cool guy shooting course. That morning we all fired around a 1000rds in what they called a warm up. Later that day after another 700rds through my clapped out M9 the barrel link broke. They haded me another M9 and they guy went and fixed mine. I bet that M9 was on its original barrel, dude gave me a new barrel and it shot like a champ the rest of the week. |
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Quoted: No need to cut anything up. Just use industrial X-Ray and high speed camera. Quoted: Quoted: If I were an enterprising lad with some money to throw around, I'd put out a "WTB" ad for P320s that fail the striker test. Then I would have the slides milled into cutaway slides so the striker safety operation can be visually observed. Then, I'd rent a high speed camera and film the failures as they occur, from multiple angles, and try to see exactly what is happening that allows the striker ledge to pass the block. Getting down to the bottom of criminal and ethical incompetence and scumbaggery from multinational corps seems to be their thing. |
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Quoted: Source? Didn’t find anything in a quick google search Quoted: Source? Didn’t find anything in a quick google search @OBird Looks like this is the source? https://www.crimefilenews.tv/2025/04/chicago-cops-slammed-with-sudden-ban-on.html From the comments on that page: 2 comments: Anonymous said... I work at CPD, and there is no such order banning the P320. What is your source? April 09, 2025 8:04 PM Paul Huebl Crimefile News said... Well, looks like I got the information to you before your own department. You can always make a call to your local range master in the morning. I’m sure they must know… April 09, 2025 8:53 PM Seems like this is firmly unconfirmed. |
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Quoted: The part of not maintaining them was so accurate. Went to a neat little spot at Ft Story for this sorta cool guy shooting course. That morning we all fired around a 1000rds in what they called a warm up. Later that day after another 700rds through my clapped out M9 the barrel link broke. They haded me another M9 and they guy went and fixed mine. I bet that M9 was on its original barrel, dude gave me a new barrel and it shot like a champ the rest of the week. The trouble with waiting until something breaks before you fix it, is that you can't predict when it will break. Guns should have round counts logged and parts replaced before they get into imminent breakage territory. |
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Quoted: The trouble with waiting until something breaks before you fix it, is that you can't predict when it will break. Guns should have round counts logged and parts replaced before they get into imminent breakage territory. Quoted: Quoted: The part of not maintaining them was so accurate. Went to a neat little spot at Ft Story for this sorta cool guy shooting course. That morning we all fired around a 1000rds in what they called a warm up. Later that day after another 700rds through my clapped out M9 the barrel link broke. They haded me another M9 and they guy went and fixed mine. I bet that M9 was on its original barrel, dude gave me a new barrel and it shot like a champ the rest of the week. The trouble with waiting until something breaks before you fix it, is that you can't predict when it will break. Guns should have round counts logged and parts replaced before they get into imminent breakage territory. There are round counters that not only tell you how many rounds are left in the magazine but how many total rounds the gun has fired. For Beretta 92s & Glock, I think, maybe the AR? Been awhile since I looked at em. Beretta 92, S&W M&P, Glock, & AR: https://www.radetecusa.com 
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Best part is, Beretta offered to equip M9s with their newer, more durable, locking block at no additional cost, but the Army declined. They literally declined improvements and deferred maintenance to better make the case that the M9 sucked and that a whole new gun was needed. Obviously, Beretta wanted to keep that contract, and tried a few things to keep it, or to provide the successor, but “the Army” was hell-bent on getting a new gun instead, it not being a Beretta, and once that decision was made final, hell-bent on it being Sig. |
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Quoted: Best part is, Beretta offered to equip M9s with their newer, more durable, locking block at no additional cost, but the Army declined. They literally declined improvements and deferred maintenance to better make the case that the M9 sucked and that a whole new gun was needed. Obviously, Beretta wanted to keep that contract, and tried a few things to keep it, or to provide the successor, but “the Army” was hell-bent on getting a new gun instead, it not being a Beretta, and once that decision was made final, hell-bent on it being Sig. Never attribute malfeasance to that which can be attributed to stupidity. The Army didn't defer maintenance on Berettas to make the case the M9 sucked - we didn't replace recoil springs til the locking blocks broke b/c they were mostly assigned to officers, and there's Powerpoint to get done before preventative maintenance. There was no grand conspiracy - just general green bureaucracy that log rolls maintenance b/c it takes time, costs money, and the damn thing's working now, don't worry about it, there's plenty of other things to worry about. Applies to generators, forklifts, Humvees, pistols... |
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Quoted: There are round counters that not only tell you how many rounds are left in the magazine but how many total rounds the gun has fired. For Beretta 92s & Glock, I think, maybe the AR? Been awhile since I looked at em. Beretta 92, S&W M&P, Glock, & AR: https://www.radetecusa.com https://www.radetecusa.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/07/digital-counter-mix-grande.jpg That would be fun on a range rental gun.
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Quoted: Never attribute malfeasance to that which can be attributed to stupidity. The Army didn't defer maintenance on Berettas to make the case the M9 sucked - we didn't replace recoil springs til the locking blocks broke b/c they were mostly assigned to officers, and there's Powerpoint to get done before preventative maintenance. There was no grand conspiracy - just general green bureaucracy that log rolls maintenance b/c it takes time, costs money, and the damn thing's working now, don't worry about it, there's plenty of other things to worry about. Applies to generators, forklifts, Humvees, pistols... Quoted: Quoted: Best part is, Beretta offered to equip M9s with their newer, more durable, locking block at no additional cost, but the Army declined. They literally declined improvements and deferred maintenance to better make the case that the M9 sucked and that a whole new gun was needed. Obviously, Beretta wanted to keep that contract, and tried a few things to keep it, or to provide the successor, but “the Army” was hell-bent on getting a new gun instead, it not being a Beretta, and once that decision was made final, hell-bent on it being Sig. Never attribute malfeasance to that which can be attributed to stupidity. The Army didn't defer maintenance on Berettas to make the case the M9 sucked - we didn't replace recoil springs til the locking blocks broke b/c they were mostly assigned to officers, and there's Powerpoint to get done before preventative maintenance. There was no grand conspiracy - just general green bureaucracy that log rolls maintenance b/c it takes time, costs money, and the damn thing's working now, don't worry about it, there's plenty of other things to worry about. Applies to generators, forklifts, Humvees, pistols... The military and multiple federal agencies were aware that the P320 was dangerously defective and went with it anyway. Malfeasance, stupidity, doesn't matter: any organization who adopted this hunk of junk should be fucked raw in court for it. |
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Quoted: The military and multiple federal agencies were aware that the P320 was dangerously defective and went with it anyway. Malfeasance, stupidity, doesn't matter: any organization who adopted this hunk of junk should be fucked raw in court for it. Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Best part is, Beretta offered to equip M9s with their newer, more durable, locking block at no additional cost, but the Army declined. They literally declined improvements and deferred maintenance to better make the case that the M9 sucked and that a whole new gun was needed. Obviously, Beretta wanted to keep that contract, and tried a few things to keep it, or to provide the successor, but “the Army” was hell-bent on getting a new gun instead, it not being a Beretta, and once that decision was made final, hell-bent on it being Sig. Never attribute malfeasance to that which can be attributed to stupidity. The Army didn't defer maintenance on Berettas to make the case the M9 sucked - we didn't replace recoil springs til the locking blocks broke b/c they were mostly assigned to officers, and there's Powerpoint to get done before preventative maintenance. There was no grand conspiracy - just general green bureaucracy that log rolls maintenance b/c it takes time, costs money, and the damn thing's working now, don't worry about it, there's plenty of other things to worry about. Applies to generators, forklifts, Humvees, pistols... The military and multiple federal agencies were aware that the P320 was dangerously defective and went with it anyway. Malfeasance, stupidity, doesn't matter: any organization who adopted this hunk of junk should be fucked raw in court for it. Your entire statement is flawed. Until a week and a half ago, nobody knew why a handful of 320s were going off in policemen's holsters and occasionally in servicemen's holsters. We now know that some unknown percentage of 320s are dangerously defective - most 320s work just fine. The weird back drop angle that the 320s initially failed wasn't tested in the military trials and was only found after the 320 made it to market - at which point SIG fixed the issue. To my knowledge, no one had ever had such a drop angle requirement before. There was no grand conspiracy to ignore the 320's flaws, b/c they weren't known, so malfeasance doesn't fit, and until a week and a half ago, no one knew for certain 320 striker blocks were failing, so stupidity doesn't fit. You're a noob trying to be holier than thou, and it won't work here - we've become accustomed to your kind over the last 4 years of USAID funding, so please go practice your craft somewhere else. |
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Quoted: Your entire statement is flawed. Until a week and a half ago, nobody knew why a handful of 320s were going off in policemen's holsters and occasionally in servicemen's holsters. We now know that some unknown percentage of 320s are dangerously defective - most 320s work just fine. The weird back drop angle that the 320s initially failed wasn't tested in the military trials and was only found after the 320 made it to market - at which point SIG fixed the issue. To my knowledge, no one had ever had such a drop angle requirement before. There was no grand conspiracy to ignore the 320's flaws, b/c they weren't known, so malfeasance doesn't fit, and until a week and a half ago, no one knew for certain 320 striker blocks were failing, so stupidity doesn't fit. You're a noob trying to be holier than thou, and it won't work here - we've become accustomed to your kind over the last 4 years of USAID funding, so please go practice your craft somewhere else. Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Best part is, Beretta offered to equip M9s with their newer, more durable, locking block at no additional cost, but the Army declined. They literally declined improvements and deferred maintenance to better make the case that the M9 sucked and that a whole new gun was needed. Obviously, Beretta wanted to keep that contract, and tried a few things to keep it, or to provide the successor, but “the Army” was hell-bent on getting a new gun instead, it not being a Beretta, and once that decision was made final, hell-bent on it being Sig. Never attribute malfeasance to that which can be attributed to stupidity. The Army didn't defer maintenance on Berettas to make the case the M9 sucked - we didn't replace recoil springs til the locking blocks broke b/c they were mostly assigned to officers, and there's Powerpoint to get done before preventative maintenance. There was no grand conspiracy - just general green bureaucracy that log rolls maintenance b/c it takes time, costs money, and the damn thing's working now, don't worry about it, there's plenty of other things to worry about. Applies to generators, forklifts, Humvees, pistols... The military and multiple federal agencies were aware that the P320 was dangerously defective and went with it anyway. Malfeasance, stupidity, doesn't matter: any organization who adopted this hunk of junk should be fucked raw in court for it. Your entire statement is flawed. Until a week and a half ago, nobody knew why a handful of 320s were going off in policemen's holsters and occasionally in servicemen's holsters. We now know that some unknown percentage of 320s are dangerously defective - most 320s work just fine. The weird back drop angle that the 320s initially failed wasn't tested in the military trials and was only found after the 320 made it to market - at which point SIG fixed the issue. To my knowledge, no one had ever had such a drop angle requirement before. There was no grand conspiracy to ignore the 320's flaws, b/c they weren't known, so malfeasance doesn't fit, and until a week and a half ago, no one knew for certain 320 striker blocks were failing, so stupidity doesn't fit. You're a noob trying to be holier than thou, and it won't work here - we've become accustomed to your kind over the last 4 years of USAID funding, so please go practice your craft somewhere else. Did the military or any LE agency know? I highly doubt it. Did Sig know? Guessing from the 365 using an entirely different striker block system… Probably. |
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Quoted: Did the military or any LE agency know? I highly doubt it. Did Sig know? Guessing from the 365 using an entirely different striker block system… Probably. Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Best part is, Beretta offered to equip M9s with their newer, more durable, locking block at no additional cost, but the Army declined. They literally declined improvements and deferred maintenance to better make the case that the M9 sucked and that a whole new gun was needed. Obviously, Beretta wanted to keep that contract, and tried a few things to keep it, or to provide the successor, but “the Army” was hell-bent on getting a new gun instead, it not being a Beretta, and once that decision was made final, hell-bent on it being Sig. Never attribute malfeasance to that which can be attributed to stupidity. The Army didn't defer maintenance on Berettas to make the case the M9 sucked - we didn't replace recoil springs til the locking blocks broke b/c they were mostly assigned to officers, and there's Powerpoint to get done before preventative maintenance. There was no grand conspiracy - just general green bureaucracy that log rolls maintenance b/c it takes time, costs money, and the damn thing's working now, don't worry about it, there's plenty of other things to worry about. Applies to generators, forklifts, Humvees, pistols... The military and multiple federal agencies were aware that the P320 was dangerously defective and went with it anyway. Malfeasance, stupidity, doesn't matter: any organization who adopted this hunk of junk should be fucked raw in court for it. Your entire statement is flawed. Until a week and a half ago, nobody knew why a handful of 320s were going off in policemen's holsters and occasionally in servicemen's holsters. We now know that some unknown percentage of 320s are dangerously defective - most 320s work just fine. The weird back drop angle that the 320s initially failed wasn't tested in the military trials and was only found after the 320 made it to market - at which point SIG fixed the issue. To my knowledge, no one had ever had such a drop angle requirement before. There was no grand conspiracy to ignore the 320's flaws, b/c they weren't known, so malfeasance doesn't fit, and until a week and a half ago, no one knew for certain 320 striker blocks were failing, so stupidity doesn't fit. You're a noob trying to be holier than thou, and it won't work here - we've become accustomed to your kind over the last 4 years of USAID funding, so please go practice your craft somewhere else. Did the military or any LE agency know? I highly doubt it. Did Sig know? Guessing from the 365 using an entirely different striker block system… Probably. Maybe. It may have just worked out that way. The 320 is a conversion of the 250 to a striker system. It's inherently a kluge. The 365 is a clean sheet design intended for concealed carry, and full size designs, even modular ones, don't always scale down well to the super uber compacts we demand today, Glock 26 notwithstanding. So after the success of the 320, they may have felt they needed a smaller chassis in the lineup. |
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Quoted: Maybe. It may have just worked out that way. The 320 is a conversion of the 250 to a striker system. It's inherently a kluge. The 365 is a clean sheet design intended for concealed carry, and full size designs, even modular ones, don't always scale down well to the super uber compacts we demand today, Glock 26 notwithstanding. So after the success of the 320, they may have felt they needed a smaller chassis in the lineup. Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Best part is, Beretta offered to equip M9s with their newer, more durable, locking block at no additional cost, but the Army declined. They literally declined improvements and deferred maintenance to better make the case that the M9 sucked and that a whole new gun was needed. Obviously, Beretta wanted to keep that contract, and tried a few things to keep it, or to provide the successor, but “the Army” was hell-bent on getting a new gun instead, it not being a Beretta, and once that decision was made final, hell-bent on it being Sig. Never attribute malfeasance to that which can be attributed to stupidity. The Army didn't defer maintenance on Berettas to make the case the M9 sucked - we didn't replace recoil springs til the locking blocks broke b/c they were mostly assigned to officers, and there's Powerpoint to get done before preventative maintenance. There was no grand conspiracy - just general green bureaucracy that log rolls maintenance b/c it takes time, costs money, and the damn thing's working now, don't worry about it, there's plenty of other things to worry about. Applies to generators, forklifts, Humvees, pistols... The military and multiple federal agencies were aware that the P320 was dangerously defective and went with it anyway. Malfeasance, stupidity, doesn't matter: any organization who adopted this hunk of junk should be fucked raw in court for it. Your entire statement is flawed. Until a week and a half ago, nobody knew why a handful of 320s were going off in policemen's holsters and occasionally in servicemen's holsters. We now know that some unknown percentage of 320s are dangerously defective - most 320s work just fine. The weird back drop angle that the 320s initially failed wasn't tested in the military trials and was only found after the 320 made it to market - at which point SIG fixed the issue. To my knowledge, no one had ever had such a drop angle requirement before. There was no grand conspiracy to ignore the 320's flaws, b/c they weren't known, so malfeasance doesn't fit, and until a week and a half ago, no one knew for certain 320 striker blocks were failing, so stupidity doesn't fit. You're a noob trying to be holier than thou, and it won't work here - we've become accustomed to your kind over the last 4 years of USAID funding, so please go practice your craft somewhere else. Did the military or any LE agency know? I highly doubt it. Did Sig know? Guessing from the 365 using an entirely different striker block system… Probably. Maybe. It may have just worked out that way. The 320 is a conversion of the 250 to a striker system. It's inherently a kluge. The 365 is a clean sheet design intended for concealed carry, and full size designs, even modular ones, don't always scale down well to the super uber compacts we demand today, Glock 26 notwithstanding. So after the success of the 320, they may have felt they needed a smaller chassis in the lineup. Maybe. But I doubt it. So a couple of randos on the internet got to the bottom of the problem but a massive company like Sig had no idea WTF was going on despite massive lawsuits!? Given Sig’s lack of responsiveness through this debacle, not to mention their initial attitude through the drop firing debacle, I’d say the problem isn’t just straight incompetence. |
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Quoted: Maybe. It may have just worked out that way. The 320 is a conversion of the 250 to a striker system. It's inherently a kluge. The 365 is a clean sheet design intended for concealed carry, and full size designs, even modular ones, don't always scale down well to the super uber compacts we demand today, Glock 26 notwithstanding. So after the success of the 320, they may have felt they needed a smaller chassis in the lineup. Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Best part is, Beretta offered to equip M9s with their newer, more durable, locking block at no additional cost, but the Army declined. They literally declined improvements and deferred maintenance to better make the case that the M9 sucked and that a whole new gun was needed. Obviously, Beretta wanted to keep that contract, and tried a few things to keep it, or to provide the successor, but “the Army” was hell-bent on getting a new gun instead, it not being a Beretta, and once that decision was made final, hell-bent on it being Sig. Never attribute malfeasance to that which can be attributed to stupidity. The Army didn't defer maintenance on Berettas to make the case the M9 sucked - we didn't replace recoil springs til the locking blocks broke b/c they were mostly assigned to officers, and there's Powerpoint to get done before preventative maintenance. There was no grand conspiracy - just general green bureaucracy that log rolls maintenance b/c it takes time, costs money, and the damn thing's working now, don't worry about it, there's plenty of other things to worry about. Applies to generators, forklifts, Humvees, pistols... The military and multiple federal agencies were aware that the P320 was dangerously defective and went with it anyway. Malfeasance, stupidity, doesn't matter: any organization who adopted this hunk of junk should be fucked raw in court for it. Your entire statement is flawed. Until a week and a half ago, nobody knew why a handful of 320s were going off in policemen's holsters and occasionally in servicemen's holsters. We now know that some unknown percentage of 320s are dangerously defective - most 320s work just fine. The weird back drop angle that the 320s initially failed wasn't tested in the military trials and was only found after the 320 made it to market - at which point SIG fixed the issue. To my knowledge, no one had ever had such a drop angle requirement before. There was no grand conspiracy to ignore the 320's flaws, b/c they weren't known, so malfeasance doesn't fit, and until a week and a half ago, no one knew for certain 320 striker blocks were failing, so stupidity doesn't fit. You're a noob trying to be holier than thou, and it won't work here - we've become accustomed to your kind over the last 4 years of USAID funding, so please go practice your craft somewhere else. Did the military or any LE agency know? I highly doubt it. Did Sig know? Guessing from the 365 using an entirely different striker block system… Probably. Maybe. It may have just worked out that way. The 320 is a conversion of the 250 to a striker system. It's inherently a kluge. The 365 is a clean sheet design intended for concealed carry, and full size designs, even modular ones, don't always scale down well to the super uber compacts we demand today, Glock 26 notwithstanding. So after the success of the 320, they may have felt they needed a smaller chassis in the lineup. Then why was the upgraded trigger added to the Army platform *before* the Omaha Outdoors video released...? |
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Quoted: Then why was the upgraded trigger added to the Army platform *before* the Omaha Outdoors video released...? Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Best part is, Beretta offered to equip M9s with their newer, more durable, locking block at no additional cost, but the Army declined. They literally declined improvements and deferred maintenance to better make the case that the M9 sucked and that a whole new gun was needed. Obviously, Beretta wanted to keep that contract, and tried a few things to keep it, or to provide the successor, but “the Army” was hell-bent on getting a new gun instead, it not being a Beretta, and once that decision was made final, hell-bent on it being Sig. Never attribute malfeasance to that which can be attributed to stupidity. The Army didn't defer maintenance on Berettas to make the case the M9 sucked - we didn't replace recoil springs til the locking blocks broke b/c they were mostly assigned to officers, and there's Powerpoint to get done before preventative maintenance. There was no grand conspiracy - just general green bureaucracy that log rolls maintenance b/c it takes time, costs money, and the damn thing's working now, don't worry about it, there's plenty of other things to worry about. Applies to generators, forklifts, Humvees, pistols... The military and multiple federal agencies were aware that the P320 was dangerously defective and went with it anyway. Malfeasance, stupidity, doesn't matter: any organization who adopted this hunk of junk should be fucked raw in court for it. Your entire statement is flawed. Until a week and a half ago, nobody knew why a handful of 320s were going off in policemen's holsters and occasionally in servicemen's holsters. We now know that some unknown percentage of 320s are dangerously defective - most 320s work just fine. The weird back drop angle that the 320s initially failed wasn't tested in the military trials and was only found after the 320 made it to market - at which point SIG fixed the issue. To my knowledge, no one had ever had such a drop angle requirement before. There was no grand conspiracy to ignore the 320's flaws, b/c they weren't known, so malfeasance doesn't fit, and until a week and a half ago, no one knew for certain 320 striker blocks were failing, so stupidity doesn't fit. You're a noob trying to be holier than thou, and it won't work here - we've become accustomed to your kind over the last 4 years of USAID funding, so please go practice your craft somewhere else. Did the military or any LE agency know? I highly doubt it. Did Sig know? Guessing from the 365 using an entirely different striker block system… Probably. Maybe. It may have just worked out that way. The 320 is a conversion of the 250 to a striker system. It's inherently a kluge. The 365 is a clean sheet design intended for concealed carry, and full size designs, even modular ones, don't always scale down well to the super uber compacts we demand today, Glock 26 notwithstanding. So after the success of the 320, they may have felt they needed a smaller chassis in the lineup. Then why was the upgraded trigger added to the Army platform *before* the Omaha Outdoors video released...? What are you addressing in the giant quote tree above? |
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Quoted: Well, something ended today.  Quoted: Quoted: Big deal if Chicago shitcanned the 320. Wonder what Sig's website about the 320 will say the truth is? Lol Well, something ended today. Attached File |
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"TESTED AND ABUSED With its unmatched modularity, unprecedented accuracy, and uncompromising reliability, the state-of-the-art SIG SAUER P320 has quickly become one of the most sought after firearms on the market today. Chosen by all branches of the U.S. military, as well as law enforcement agencies across the country and around the world, the P320 redefines the modern handgun. SAFETY WITHOUT COMPROMISE Safety isn’t negotiable. The P320 maximizes peace of mind with a robust safety system including both a striker safety and a disconnect safety, and because of its innovative 3-point takedown safety, never again will you need to pull the trigger to disassemble your pistol. THE MOST TESTED AND PROVEN SIDEARM EVER" |
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Quoted: "TESTED AND ABUSED With its unmatched modularity, unprecedented accuracy, and uncompromising reliability, the state-of-the-art SIG SAUER P320 has quickly become one of the most sought after firearms on the market today. Chosen by all branches of the U.S. military, as well as law enforcement agencies across the country and around the world, the P320 redefines the modern handgun. SAFETY WITHOUT COMPROMISE Safety isn’t negotiable. The P320 maximizes peace of mind with a robust safety system including both a striker safety and a disconnect safety, and because of its innovative 3-point takedown safety, never again will you need to pull the trigger to disassemble your pistol. THE MOST TESTED AND PROVEN SIDEARM EVER" Attached File |
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Quoted: I've relegated mine to the "do not use" bin.  Any thoughts on the Walther PDP for falling plate competition? Make sure you shoot one first. I had one and sold it. Thought everything about it was great, the only problem was that the slide release is so large that if you have large hands then it’s very difficult to not hit it on the last round and have the slide go back into battery on an empty mag. I wanted to get an extra slide release but couldn’t find one aftermarket and they’re all sold out on OEM on the website so I wasn’t about to modify mine and ruin resale value. Just some thoughts, as I really wanted to like it and it is the first and only striker fired gun I was excited for. The others are just ok to me. Also, you’ll want the PDP Pro-X version with the upgraded trigger. The stock trigger is good but frankly the Glock Performance Trigger is just as good and Glock has better aftermarket support and cheaper mags (Walther mags are as expensive as Sig mags). |
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Quoted: Well I get to go qual on the M17 this weekend. I also get to be the CLS for the range. It’s good thing I have plenty of real world experience treating GSW’s, I might need it. @Backbencher, yeah, you’re probably right about stupidity vs malfeasance with deferred maintenance on the M9. Because that’s at least partly done at the unit level (which is why I’ve never experienced such a problem) However, with the locking blocks, the people that would approve that are in the same buildings as the people who would be involved in procuring a new gun, and it’s an interesting coincidence that Beretta wasn’t allowed any ECPs, though other guns were. And the USMC, who was not looking at a future procurement of a new gun, bought an A1 version of the M9, so it’s not like updating the M9 was financially unfeasible, or that Beretta and DoD can’t work together on updates. The difference is the Army wanted a new gun. It’s like dudes on this forum rationalizing upgrading an existing gun vs adding another to the safe. It’s also interesting that the proposal resulting in the M17 was written specifically to exclude M9 variants such as the OG, A1, and A3. And the already tested and issued Glocks, too. I’m not arguing that the M9 is the best handgun for every single Soldier to carry* (or a Glock for that matter), just that there was fuckery in the procurement process all the way back to the requirement(s). And there absolutely was fuckery. *also interesting that this coincides with a doctrinal change resulting in more pistols being issued per Soldier than any other time in Army history. |
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Quoted: Your entire statement is flawed. Until a week and a half ago, nobody knew why a handful of 320s were going off in policemen's holsters and occasionally in servicemen's holsters. We now know that some unknown percentage of 320s are dangerously defective - most 320s work just fine. The weird back drop angle that the 320s initially failed wasn't tested in the military trials and was only found after the 320 made it to market - at which point SIG fixed the issue. To my knowledge, no one had ever had such a drop angle requirement before. There was no grand conspiracy to ignore the 320's flaws, b/c they weren't known, so malfeasance doesn't fit, and until a week and a half ago, no one knew for certain 320 striker blocks were failing, so stupidity doesn't fit. You're a noob trying to be holier than thou, and it won't work here - we've become accustomed to your kind over the last 4 years of USAID funding, so please go practice your craft somewhere else. My question is this....are the guns that have issues strictly defective when they leave the factory or do they or can they become defective as parts wear? Or it both? This may have been addressed previously and I a missed it, in which case I apologize. |
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Quoted: My question is this....are the guns that have issues strictly defective when they leave the factory or do they or can they become defective as parts wear? Or it both? This may have been addressed previously and I a missed it, in which case I apologize. Quoted: Quoted: Your entire statement is flawed. Until a week and a half ago, nobody knew why a handful of 320s were going off in policemen's holsters and occasionally in servicemen's holsters. We now know that some unknown percentage of 320s are dangerously defective - most 320s work just fine. The weird back drop angle that the 320s initially failed wasn't tested in the military trials and was only found after the 320 made it to market - at which point SIG fixed the issue. To my knowledge, no one had ever had such a drop angle requirement before. There was no grand conspiracy to ignore the 320's flaws, b/c they weren't known, so malfeasance doesn't fit, and until a week and a half ago, no one knew for certain 320 striker blocks were failing, so stupidity doesn't fit. You're a noob trying to be holier than thou, and it won't work here - we've become accustomed to your kind over the last 4 years of USAID funding, so please go practice your craft somewhere else. My question is this....are the guns that have issues strictly defective when they leave the factory or do they or can they become defective as parts wear? Or it both? This may have been addressed previously and I a missed it, in which case I apologize. We don't know. I would bet that SIG isn't shipping defective pistols to distributors now, though. Not that the new good ones shipped can't become defective, we just don't know at this point. |
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Quoted: I know you’re half joking, and are unlikely to be treating a GSW, but pay attention to stoppages. I went to a few ranges when these things were new, and holy shit they were stoppage machines. @Backbencher, yeah, you’re probably right about stupidity vs malfeasance with deferred maintenance on the M9. Because that’s at least partly done at the unit level (which is why I’ve never experienced such a problem) However, with the locking blocks, the people that would approve that are in the same buildings as the people who would be involved in procuring a new gun, and it’s an interesting coincidence that Beretta wasn’t allowed any ECPs, though other guns were. And the USMC, who was not looking at a future procurement of a new gun, bought an A1 version of the M9, so it’s not like updating the M9 was financially unfeasible, or that Beretta and DoD can’t work together on updates. The difference is the Army wanted a new gun. It’s like dudes on this forum rationalizing upgrading an existing gun vs adding another to the safe. It’s also interesting that the proposal resulting in the M17 was written specifically to exclude M9 variants such as the OG, A1, and A3. And the already tested and issued Glocks, too. I’m not arguing that the M9 is the best handgun for every single Soldier to carry* (or a Glock for that matter), just that there was fuckery in the procurement process all the way back to the requirement(s). And there absolutely was fuckery. *also interesting that this coincides with a doctrinal change resulting in more pistols being issued per Soldier than any other time in Army history. Quoted: Quoted: Well I get to go qual on the M17 this weekend. I also get to be the CLS for the range. It’s good thing I have plenty of real world experience treating GSW’s, I might need it. @Backbencher, yeah, you’re probably right about stupidity vs malfeasance with deferred maintenance on the M9. Because that’s at least partly done at the unit level (which is why I’ve never experienced such a problem) However, with the locking blocks, the people that would approve that are in the same buildings as the people who would be involved in procuring a new gun, and it’s an interesting coincidence that Beretta wasn’t allowed any ECPs, though other guns were. And the USMC, who was not looking at a future procurement of a new gun, bought an A1 version of the M9, so it’s not like updating the M9 was financially unfeasible, or that Beretta and DoD can’t work together on updates. The difference is the Army wanted a new gun. It’s like dudes on this forum rationalizing upgrading an existing gun vs adding another to the safe. It’s also interesting that the proposal resulting in the M17 was written specifically to exclude M9 variants such as the OG, A1, and A3. And the already tested and issued Glocks, too. I’m not arguing that the M9 is the best handgun for every single Soldier to carry* (or a Glock for that matter), just that there was fuckery in the procurement process all the way back to the requirement(s). And there absolutely was fuckery. *also interesting that this coincides with a doctrinal change resulting in more pistols being issued per Soldier than any other time in Army history. The proposal was likely written that way b/c the Army, in hindsight, hated the slide mounted safety they'd demanded on the M9. Now that we have soldiers getting shot in the leg, we didn't realize how good we had it. |
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Quoted: The proposal was likely written that way b/c the Army, in hindsight, hated the slide mounted safety they'd demanded on the M9. Now that we have soldiers getting shot in the leg, we didn't realize how good we had it. |
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Quoted: I know you’re half joking, and are unlikely to be treating a GSW, but pay attention to stoppages. I went to a few ranges when these things were new, and holy shit they were stoppage machines. I’m curious if they got ironed out via “break-in”. I don’t remember there being a problem the last time I was at a M17 range, about a year and a half ago. @Backbencher, yeah, you’re probably right about stupidity vs malfeasance with deferred maintenance on the M9. Because that’s at least partly done at the unit level (which is why I’ve never experienced such a problem) However, with the locking blocks, the people that would approve that are in the same buildings as the people who would be involved in procuring a new gun, and it’s an interesting coincidence that Beretta wasn’t allowed any ECPs, though other guns were. And the USMC, who was not looking at a future procurement of a new gun, bought an A1 version of the M9, so it’s not like updating the M9 was financially unfeasible, or that Beretta and DoD can’t work together on updates. The difference is the Army wanted a new gun. It’s like dudes on this forum rationalizing upgrading an existing gun vs adding another to the safe. It’s also interesting that the proposal resulting in the M17 was written specifically to exclude M9 variants such as the OG, A1, and A3. And the already tested and issued Glocks, too. I’m not arguing that the M9 is the best handgun for every single Soldier to carry* (or a Glock for that matter), just that there was fuckery in the procurement process all the way back to the requirement(s). And there absolutely was fuckery. *also interesting that this coincides with a doctrinal change resulting in more pistols being issued per Soldier than any other time in Army history. Corruption in the acquisitions process? Im shocked! But seriously, you’re correct. There was absolutely some fuckery going on. I’d be willing to bet that it was all done for some really bitchin OER bullet points and performance reviews for civilians working on the project. |
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Quoted: I watched a segment on the local news this morning.. Seems the Oklahoma CLEET academy has banned the 320. Too bad that Sig will not do the right thing. Financially, I get it, morally and ethically, no so much... https://www.news9.com/story/67f89205e5fad4a64be9e787/records-show-oklahoma-law-enforcement-officials-concerned-over-popular-service-weapon It looks like in the absence of a reliable, repeatable test that can cause a 320 to fail, and instead it being a combination of factors that can cause some to discharge, agencies are taking the safe route and just saying "meh, we don't want a gun without a trigger safety". Just another crack in the dam. |
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Quoted: https://www.news9.com/story/67f89205e5fad4a64be9e787/records-show-oklahoma-law-enforcement-officials-concerned-over-popular-service-weapon It looks like in the absence of a reliable, repeatable test that can cause a 320 to fail, and instead it being a combination of factors that can cause some to discharge, agencies are taking the safe route and just saying "meh, we don't want a gun without a trigger safety". Just another crack in the dam. Every Personal Injury lawyer on the planet must be quivering like a rabid Malinois right now. Sig needs to clever their way out of this because stonewalling is starting to cascade fail. A "2.0" that's "Even safer" and another "voluntary upgrade" is likely their best bet to avoid liability. |