[ARCHIVED THREAD] - SIG “ The P320. It ends today.” (Page 118 of 142)
 How Does Sig Respond To This? |
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Quoted: This guy is NOT a gunsmith and I do not suggest you do this yet. But interesting video where he says he fixed it with smashing the front FCU tabs with a vise. Then squeezing together with pliers. Could use the vise again too.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nYAcL9FHRHsIf you are going to do this maybe measure the width of the tabs before with a mic to get them back to the correct width? If redneck Jonathon Jackson figured out how to make the 320 safe with a pair of pliers, I’m going to laugh my ass off. The sloppy fit between slide and FCU and frame has always been surprising to me, going back to the first time I handled one at a Gander Mountain. That much wiggle has got to translate into play between the sear and the striker. And if the FCU rails can be out of spec that much (some are tight, some are wildly loose) on an AMERICAN made product, think about how much the little fiddly bits made out of tightly compressed turds can be off. Making my own FCU, I made sure that sonofagun was tight on the slide , and I might just go back and see if it can be tightened up like backwoods Lucky Spenser describes. |
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Took a look at my vp9 It too has a floating sear with springs on the rear holding it in a constant up position. The trigger bar makes the same motion to drop it down to release a pre-cocked striker. Not the exact same mechanism as sigs but very similar. The striker block seems very robust. It rotates out of the way on a hinge pin. Slide to frame rails fit is very tight though in comparison. Are there any reports of vp9s UDing or having dead triggers? |
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Quoted: Took a look at my vp9 It too has a floating sear with springs on the rear holding it in a constant up position. The trigger bar makes the same motion to drop it down to release a pre-cocked striker. Not the exact same mechanism as sigs but very similar. The striker block seems very robust. It rotates out of the way on a hinge pin. Slide to frame rails fit is very tight though in comparison. Are there any reports of vp9s UDing or having dead triggers? HK tests the shit out of their pistols. They don’t mind being late to market or expensive to make sure they have a near-perfect product. |
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Quoted: If redneck Jonathon Jackson figured out how to make the 320 safe with a pair of pliers, I’m going to laugh my ass off. The sloppy fit between slide and FCU and frame has always been surprising to me, going back to the first time I handled one at a Gander Mountain. That much wiggle has got to translate into play between the sear and the striker. And if the FCU rails can be out of spec that much (some are tight, some are wildly loose) on an AMERICAN made product, think about how much the little fiddly bits made out of tightly compressed turds can be off. Making my own FCU, I made sure that sonofagun was tight on the slide , and I might just go back and see if it can be tightened up like backwoods Lucky Spenser describes. Quoted: Quoted: This guy is NOT a gunsmith and I do not suggest you do this yet. But interesting video where he says he fixed it with smashing the front FCU tabs with a vise. Then squeezing together with pliers. Could use the vise again too. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nYAcL9FHRHsIf you are going to do this maybe measure the width of the tabs before with a mic to get them back to the correct width? If redneck Jonathon Jackson figured out how to make the 320 safe with a pair of pliers, I’m going to laugh my ass off. The sloppy fit between slide and FCU and frame has always been surprising to me, going back to the first time I handled one at a Gander Mountain. That much wiggle has got to translate into play between the sear and the striker. And if the FCU rails can be out of spec that much (some are tight, some are wildly loose) on an AMERICAN made product, think about how much the little fiddly bits made out of tightly compressed turds can be off. Making my own FCU, I made sure that sonofagun was tight on the slide , and I might just go back and see if it can be tightened up like backwoods Lucky Spenser describes. That is pretty much a basic "match" modification. Tight frame to slide fit. Been done to 1911's since the dawn of time. Too much will make them less reliable. |
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Quoted: There's a reason that Davidson's is out, but in general, I don't think distributors have enough exposure for that to be a huge threat. Sig is the big company with their name on the side of the gun. Companies like Cabelas and Academy are the big retailers with their name at the top of the receipts. Most consumers have no idea who companies like Davidson's, RSR, Lipseys, and Chattanooga are. Seldom do firearm retailers buy direct from the manufacturer, including the big ones like Cabelas, Academy, Walmart, Scheels, etc. They too often (but not always) use wholesale distributors. They just buy so many that they get better pricing. As an example, Walmart uses (or used) Sports South. So while the general public may not recognize the wholesaler names you mentioned, it could still have a ripple effect to the Cabelas and Academies if enough wholesalers pause P320’s. My hunch though is the Sig wholesalers to the big name retailers can’t pick and choose which Sig firearms they can sell under their agreement terms with Sig, and would likely get sued by Sig if they tried. IMHO, P320 sales at the Cabelas and Academies type stores would likely hault if those places weren’t ran by corporate bean counters, but instead ran by gun people that are in tune of the current events. |
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Quoted: Took a look at my vp9 It too has a floating sear with springs on the rear holding it in a constant up position. The trigger bar makes the same motion to drop it down to release a pre-cocked striker. Not the exact same mechanism as sigs but very similar. The striker block seems very robust. It rotates out of the way on a hinge pin. Slide to frame rails fit is very tight though in comparison. Are there any reports of vp9s UDing or having dead triggers? There are reports that a sharp blow to the butt or a grip down drop will cause some VP9s to drop the striker. No reports of that causing an AD; the striker block catches the striker. |
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Quoted: There are reports that a sharp blow to the butt or a grip down drop will cause some VP9s to drop the striker. No reports of that causing an AD; the striker block catches the striker. Quoted: Quoted: Took a look at my vp9 It too has a floating sear with springs on the rear holding it in a constant up position. The trigger bar makes the same motion to drop it down to release a pre-cocked striker. Not the exact same mechanism as sigs but very similar. The striker block seems very robust. It rotates out of the way on a hinge pin. Slide to frame rails fit is very tight though in comparison. Are there any reports of vp9s UDing or having dead triggers? There are reports that a sharp blow to the butt or a grip down drop will cause some VP9s to drop the striker. No reports of that causing an AD; the striker block catches the striker. You have to hit it with a goddamn rubber mallet at a VERY specific angle to do it, and the firing pin has never touched the primer in these experiments, so there’s no risk of the round going off. It’s much different than the p320 situation and less likely to happen than a dead primer in your ammo. Walther pdps are the same but I think they changed something to eliminate it, and still never any rounds going off or pins touching the primer. This has always been a p320 only thing |
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Quoted: IMHO, P320 sales at the Cabelas and Academies type stores would likely hault if those places weren’t ran by corporate bean counters, but instead ran by gun people that are in tune of the current events. I'm going to say this and nothing more. What is going on with the 320 is on the radar at the headquarters of one of the big box retailers. Not only from a liability standpoint, but also from a financial, as 320 sales are horrible; almost non-existent. |
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Quoted: You have to hit it with a goddamn rubber mallet at a VERY specific angle to do it, and the firing pin has never touched the primer in these experiments, so there’s no risk of the round going off. It’s much different than the p320 situation and less likely to happen than a dead primer in your ammo. Walther pdps are the same but I think they changed something to eliminate it, and still never any rounds going off or pins touching the primer. This has always been a p320 only thing Walther removed the decocking arm that was a legacy of the P99, which reduced the sensitivity to muzzle up drops. |
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Quoted: There's a reason that Davidson's is out, but in general, I don't think distributors have enough exposure for that to be a huge threat. Sig is the big company with their name on the side of the gun. Companies like Cabelas and Academy are the big retailers with their name at the top of the receipts. Most consumers have no idea who companies like Davidson's, RSR, Lipseys, and Chattanooga are. Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Davidsons, GT Dist, and now PSA, plus the IDPA ban. Sig probably needs to consider doing something here. And that something probably shouldn't be more arrogant and tone deaf social media postings. How about suing distributors? There's a reason that Davidson's is out, but in general, I don't think distributors have enough exposure for that to be a huge threat. Sig is the big company with their name on the side of the gun. Companies like Cabelas and Academy are the big retailers with their name at the top of the receipts. Most consumers have no idea who companies like Davidson's, RSR, Lipseys, and Chattanooga are. As long as Sig is solvent, they will be the main target. A smart lawyer will also sue the local dealer in order to defeat federal diversity jurisdiction and keep the case in state court. Suing the distributor doesn't really get you anything. |
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Quoted: Didn’t garandthumb have a UD with a 320 or did I misremember a post he made? He announced on social media a while back a video but sometime later posted it was indefinitely delayed. He couldnt get the issue to be repeatable apparently. There is a video of the drop test which a 320 did pass. |
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Quoted: He announced on social media a while back a video but sometime later posted it was indefinitely delayed. He couldnt get the issue to be repeatable apparently. There is a video of the drop test which a 320 did pass. Quoted: Quoted: Didn’t garandthumb have a UD with a 320 or did I misremember a post he made? He announced on social media a while back a video but sometime later posted it was indefinitely delayed. He couldnt get the issue to be repeatable apparently. There is a video of the drop test which a 320 did pass. OR did sig buy his crisscross applesauce? He seems very buyable... |
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Quoted: OR did sig buy his crisscross applesauce? He seems very buyable... Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Didn’t garandthumb have a UD with a 320 or did I misremember a post he made? He announced on social media a while back a video but sometime later posted it was indefinitely delayed. He couldnt get the issue to be repeatable apparently. There is a video of the drop test which a 320 did pass. OR did sig buy his crisscross applesauce? He seems very buyable... They are probably paying him off in fertile gun bunny breeder currency. |
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Quoted: My slide to frame is tight. It's passed all these various internet tests. At what point do I say I can trust it? Because I still don't. Patiently waiting for clarity. Sig’s response alone and their subsequent attacks on anyone trying to get to the truth should be reason enough not to trust it |
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Quoted: Just go for it. Appendix carry. Quoted: Quoted: My slide to frame is tight. It's passed all these various internet tests. At what point do I say I can trust it? Because I still don't. Patiently waiting for clarity. Just go for it. Appendix carry. He won’t! He ain’t got any balls. |
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Quoted: He won’t! He ain’t got any balls. Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: My slide to frame is tight. It's passed all these various internet tests. At what point do I say I can trust it? Because I still don't. Patiently waiting for clarity. Just go for it. Appendix carry. He won’t! He ain’t got any balls. I think he's concerned about keeping em.... |
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Quoted: They are probably paying him off in fertile gun bunny breeder currency. Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Didn’t garandthumb have a UD with a 320 or did I misremember a post he made? He announced on social media a while back a video but sometime later posted it was indefinitely delayed. He couldnt get the issue to be repeatable apparently. There is a video of the drop test which a 320 did pass. OR did sig buy his crisscross applesauce? He seems very buyable... They are probably paying him off in fertile gun bunny breeder currency.  |
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Quoted: My slide to frame is tight. It's passed all these various internet tests. At what point do I say I can trust it? Because I still don't. Patiently waiting for clarity. While the issue with debris on the striker could be partially solved by milling a hole in the sear at the right spot giving the debris somewhere to go, and doing work to tighten up slide to frame fit will help, I will just never trust the "safety lock" or striker safety lever in these pistols. It is not a robust design. I think it has a limited lifetime number of hits it can absorb from the striker until it fails completely. How many hits is that? Is it one more than the last time you tested it? How many rounds do you need to fire before a brass shaving disables it even if it is otherwise functional? Yeah, no, not happening for me. That whole striker assembly needs redesigned. |
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Quoted: If redneck Jonathon Jackson figured out how to make the 320 safe with a pair of pliers, I’m going to laugh my ass off. The sloppy fit between slide and FCU and frame has always been surprising to me, going back to the first time I handled one at a Gander Mountain. That much wiggle has got to translate into play between the sear and the striker. And if the FCU rails can be out of spec that much (some are tight, some are wildly loose) on an AMERICAN made product, think about how much the little fiddly bits made out of tightly compressed turds can be off. Making my own FCU, I made sure that sonofagun was tight on the slide , and I might just go back and see if it can be tightened up like backwoods Lucky Spenser describes. Quoted: Quoted: This guy is NOT a gunsmith and I do not suggest you do this yet. But interesting video where he says he fixed it with smashing the front FCU tabs with a vise. Then squeezing together with pliers. Could use the vise again too. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nYAcL9FHRHsIf you are going to do this maybe measure the width of the tabs before with a mic to get them back to the correct width? If redneck Jonathon Jackson figured out how to make the 320 safe with a pair of pliers, I’m going to laugh my ass off. The sloppy fit between slide and FCU and frame has always been surprising to me, going back to the first time I handled one at a Gander Mountain. That much wiggle has got to translate into play between the sear and the striker. And if the FCU rails can be out of spec that much (some are tight, some are wildly loose) on an AMERICAN made product, think about how much the little fiddly bits made out of tightly compressed turds can be off. Making my own FCU, I made sure that sonofagun was tight on the slide , and I might just go back and see if it can be tightened up like backwoods Lucky Spenser describes. "gunsmithing pliers" 
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Quoted: He never UDs......its always an on command discharge into a consenting bullet trap Quoted: Quoted: Didn’t garandthumb have a UD with a 320 or did I misremember a post he made? He never UDs......its always an on command discharge into a consenting bullet trap He just wants to see the bullet trap. |
 The Smoking Gun: Is THIS The Document SIG Sauer Does Not Want You To See? |
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WTF is with the mouths open ready to take dick thumbnail pics? |
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Quoted: WTF is with the mouths open ready to take dick thumbnail pics? Quoted: WTF is with the mouths open ready to take dick thumbnail pics? Same thumbnail for YouTube and Grindr? |
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Quoted: WTF is with the mouths open ready to take dick thumbnail pics? Quoted: WTF is with the mouths open ready to take dick thumbnail pics? |
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Quoted: WTF is with the mouths open ready to take dick thumbnail pics? Quoted: WTF is with the mouths open ready to take dick thumbnail pics? Apparently, thumbnails w/ mouth open is more likely to be clicked on. We did that. |
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Quoted: WTF is with the mouths open ready to take dick thumbnail pics? Quoted: WTF is with the mouths open ready to take dick thumbnail pics? Clickbait for the mouthbreathers.... duh |
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Quoted: WTF is with the mouths open ready to take dick thumbnail pics? Quoted: WTF is with the mouths open ready to take dick thumbnail pics? Same reason commercials routinely involve simplistic cartoon characters making exaggerated expressions like it’s a children’s TV show. Significant portions of the population never experience cognitive development beyond that of a small child. |
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I have spent an enormous amount of understanding how the P320 works recently and reviewing many videos including technical ones and peoples opinions like most recently hickock45 and Washington Gun Law. At this time until a reputable testing lab can show us repeatedly that the unintentional discharge will occur Im not going to believe it. I want to read the report and see the test procedure. The more I see countless videos of people playing with the trigger and saying "look it went off" the more I'm temped to side with Sig. Its complete nonsense and goes against anything a rational educated person would believe. In Engineering there is a saying "Without data it's just an opinion." Waiting for a reputable test lab report and the report from the Air Force. . |
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Quoted: I have spent an enormous amount of understanding how the P320 works recently and reviewing many videos including technical ones and peoples opinions like most recently hickock45 and Washington Gun Law. At this time until a reputable testing lab can show us repeatedly that the unintentional discharge will occur Im not going to believe it. I want to read the report and see the test procedure. The more I see countless videos of people playing with the trigger and saying "look it went off" the more I'm temped to side with Sig. Its complete nonsense and goes against anything a rational educated person would believe. In Engineering there is a saying "Without data it's just an opinion." Waiting for a reputable test lab report and the report from the Air Force. . We have strong indications, albeit not officially confirmed, that the USAF incident was not the fault of the pistol. |
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Quoted: I have spent an enormous amount of understanding how the P320 works recently and reviewing many videos including technical ones and peoples opinions like most recently hickock45 and Washington Gun Law. At this time until a reputable testing lab can show us repeatedly that the unintentional discharge will occur Im not going to believe it. I want to read the report and see the test procedure. The more I see countless videos of people playing with the trigger and saying "look it went off" the more I'm temped to side with Sig. Its complete nonsense and goes against anything a rational educated person would believe. In Engineering there is a saying "Without data it's just an opinion." Waiting for a reputable test lab report and the report from the Air Force. . I find that… puzzling. Do you not believe any of the people who instigate a sear trip and find their striker block safety failed to block the striker? Do you not believe my demonstration or the demonstration by Mischief Machine that show various sizes of debris which can easily enter the back of the pistol are capable of tripping the sear with either forward-back or up-down slide movement? Because if those two events occur simultaneously, the pistol will fire, and after it does a key element of the failure is likely gone and no longer present as evidence. I think we’ve already shown how a pistol can fire uncommanded. |
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Quoted: At this time until a reputable testing lab can show us repeatedly that the unintentional discharge will occur Im not going to believe it. I want to read the report and see the test procedure. . At this time until a reputable testing lab can show us repeatedly that the unintentional discharge will not occur Im not going to believe it. I want to read the report and see the test procedure. |
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Quoted: I have spent an enormous amount of understanding how the P320 works recently and reviewing many videos including technical ones and peoples opinions like most recently hickock45 and Washington Gun Law. At this time until a reputable testing lab can show us repeatedly that the unintentional discharge will occur Im not going to believe it. I want to read the report and see the test procedure. The more I see countless videos of people playing with the trigger and saying "look it went off" the more I'm temped to side with Sig. Its complete nonsense and goes against anything a rational educated person would believe. In Engineering there is a saying "Without data it's just an opinion." Waiting for a reputable test lab report and the report from the Air Force. . Brother this is a repeatable failure and well understood. Basically if you have a combination of three things:
Then you have a gun that can and will go off in the holster without a trigger press. And conspicuously, Sig fixed item #1 entirely and item #3a in the P365 when they scaled the P320 design down eight years ago. They knew these were problems. There's no hiding from it any longer by moving the goalposts to "well until I see an I-triple-E certified lab on the International Space Station replicate this under the supervison of the provost of Sonoran Desert Institute..." No man. Give it up. |
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Despite the soyjak faces I skimmed the video to see what "The Smoking Gun" was. TL;DR: like most soyjak videos, it's fucking stupid. The document referenced is the risk acceptance matrix from the MHS competition. Soyjak highlights the line regarding the risk of a pistol firing accidentally due to impacts or vibration, and points out that Sig graded the risk at about .1%. This, he concludes, means that Sig believes that .1% of their pistols can be expected to AD due to vibration or impact at some point. Since Sig has millions of P320s in circulation, this means that Sig expects 5000+ P320s to fire without a trigger pull, according to soyjak. To be completely fair to soyjak, I can see how someone not familiar with US Army risk assessments could reach that conclusion. Unfortunately, anyone who has prepared an Army risk assessment can tell you that his conclusion is fucking stupid. When preparing an Army risk assessment you identify a hazard, classify how risky it is if nothing is done to address the hazard, identify what controls you're going to use to address the risk, then reclassify the risk after controls have been implemented. Sig said the risk was .1% before controls. To reduce that risk, Sig's control measure was to design the pistol in such a way that the striker would not be released by vibrations or impacts. After implementing that control, Sig assessed that the risk was so remote that it was extremely unlikely it would ever happen, even across a large fleet of weapons. In other words, this document says the opposite of what soyjak thinks it says: it says that Sig believes that it's extremely unlikely that any P320 will ever fire without a trigger pull and that the design is fundamentally safe. To be perfectly clear, because I know some of our own fine posters will reee at anyone who reacts critically to someone claiming the P320 turned them into a newt, I am not saying that I agree with anything Sig claims. Given tests showing that the striker safety fails to catch the striker under some circumstances, and the tests showing that small pieces of debris + carry movements can cause the striker to release, I personally believe P320s are firing without a trigger pull. |
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Quoted: We have strong indications, albeit not officially confirmed, that the USAF incident was not the fault of the pistol. No we don't. We have one screenshot of some fever-dream DM. In the meantime, the inspections on M18's in the USAF is now no longer limited to one command, it is service-wide as of 8/1: https://www.military.com/daily-news/2025/08/01/air-force-conducting-service-wide-inspections-of-sig-sauer-m18-pistol-after-airmans-death.html |
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Quoted: Despite the soyjak faces I skimmed the video to see what "The Smoking Gun" was. TL;DR: like most soyjak videos, it's fucking stupid. The document referenced is the risk acceptance matrix from the MHS competition. Soyjak highlights the line regarding the risk of a pistol firing accidentally due to impacts or vibration, and points out that Sig graded the risk at about .1%. This, he concludes, means that Sig believes that .1% of their pistols can be expected to AD due to vibration or impact at some point. Since Sig has millions of P320s in circulation, this means that Sig expects 5000+ P320s to fire without a trigger pull, according to soyjak. This video, with no soyjak, explains how that document in concert with the FBI BRF evaluation doc indicate that Sig likely knows there's a problem and has known for some time: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yY4SicvhEpY |
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Quoted: No we don't. We have one screenshot of some fever-dream DM. In the meantime, the inspections on M18's in the USAF is now no longer limited to one command, it is service-wide as of 8/1: https://www.military.com/daily-news/2025/08/01/air-force-conducting-service-wide-inspections-of-sig-sauer-m18-pistol-after-airmans-death.html Aww shit It's real now |
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Quoted: I have spent an enormous amount of understanding how the P320 works recently and reviewing many videos including technical ones and peoples opinions like most recently hickock45 and Washington Gun Law. At this time until a reputable testing lab can show us repeatedly that the unintentional discharge will occur Im not going to believe it. I want to read the report and see the test procedure. There is a scene in the excellent “Chernobyl” miniseries where a character named Fomin states, “tell me, how does an RBMK reactor explode?” and uses the scientists inability to explain the science of how it could explode as evidence that it can’t explode. He asks this question while right next to an exploded RBMK reactor which he was unwilling to believe has exploded despite all evidence and his own eyes. This is the position you are taking. |
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Quoted: I have spent an enormous amount of understanding how the P320 works recently and reviewing many videos including technical ones and peoples opinions like most recently hickock45 and Washington Gun Law. At this time until a reputable testing lab can show us repeatedly that the unintentional discharge will occur Im not going to believe it. I want to read the report and see the test procedure. The more I see countless videos of people playing with the trigger and saying "look it went off" the more I'm temped to side with Sig. Its complete nonsense and goes against anything a rational educated person would believe. In Engineering there is a saying "Without data it's just an opinion." Waiting for a reputable test lab report and the report from the Air Force. . I think I speak for everyone that we were waiting on the edge of our seats for your take on this. 
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