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If you went after these folks, it would get them out of office... just saying. Then again, Hillary was almost president and she ran the biggest pay to play scam in history. Quoted:
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Lobbyists are by definition people that push their employers message. No way I'd believe that a lobbyist wasn't doing exactly what the person that hired them wanted them to do. And pay to play? I am fairly sure that is a crime. You are clearly not familiar with Illinois politics. Where governors go to jail. We're talking about people who elect crooks time after time for years. Read about Dan Rostenkowski. Proving corruption is not enough to get people voted out in Illinois. |
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Should I be more or less upset by the fact these companies had zero idea what their paid contractors were doing?  So, this lobbyist that you hired (but have no contact with) is working with legislators on this bill, you know, doing his job. So, he secures an exemption for you and your friends. Great, you won't be affected by this bill! Here's my sticking point. This guy you hired does his job and protects your business from some piece of legislation that could harm you, yet, HE DOESN'T FUCKING TELL YOU? Bullshit. There's no way they found out about this from TFB/people at the NRA show. No fucking way. |
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Why would you forgive them for fucking gun owners in IL then running like cockroaches across the border? You going to forgive them if they help pass anti gun legislation in YOUR state? Quoted:
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Worth a watch.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ioM5NZ-fwtI
Fuck them both until they do the right thing and leave IL.  
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This thread and many like it remind me why I typically hate gun owners as a whole when it comes to the shooting sports. We are the most divided group, and our own worst enemy. We turn on our own without even understanding the process, and bitch endlessly about the unwanted junk mail from the NRA. (Which takes a phone call to end, or opt out of). Of course these same mindless idiots who complain don't have a fucking clue about advertising, and can't understand all that junk mail doesn't cost the NRA 1 single penny. Its all paid by advertisers. Because most are mindless fuckwits, trying to get them to understand basic business is akin to teaching dirt how to read poetry. Its no different than idiots who don't have a home and simply state "Just move" when things in the area aren't great. They have zero understanding of the cost of moving, finding a new home, selling the existing home, etc. No fucking clue, but they can spout out what to do, yet they probably never even left home to begin with. Attacking RRA/SA just because is stupid. Thats it. Lets boycott two companies and cause dozens of gun enthusiast to be out a job because of some asshole lobbyist fucked up because he gets paid wether or not the legislature works in his favor or not. So stand proud assholes and lets crush another gun institution without knowing fuck all about whats going on! |
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But there is no way that he didn't inform them that he had carved out an exemption for them. No way. That would be such a win for him/them, that he would HAVE to tell them. So, right then, did they tell Mr. Non-Firearms guy, "Oh, hell no, that would be unfair and would destroy us in the 2nd A/ firearms community! Rescind that shit immediately!" Nope. They didn't. In fact, the smart thing to do would've been to immediately put out a statement explaining what Mr. Uninformed had done (unbeknownst to them) and that he was immediately terminated. They would have GAINED support from our community.
But they didn't.  They rolled the dice at the expense of IL gun-owners & another nail in the 2nd A.
And lost. GTFO!  |
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I cannot explain how it is not, but it is legal and has been going on for a long long time. I mentioned it in the lock thread, several pages back, some were shocked by this, I was not (regarding the pay to play/meet). As a general rule money talks. Knowing that, do you think it's really possible that a lobbyist secured an exemption for a bunch of companies from a shitty law and he didn't tell someone at said companies about it? That just doesn't pass the smell test for me, but then again, I have no experience in that world. @RWM |
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I wish I could say that kind of thing surprises me.  Quoted:
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Not sure how much this will impact the two companies business. Go look at XD-Talk forum. About three quarters of the comments are meh... no big deal... business as usual. |
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What are your positions on Colt, Ruger In those days, a mini-14 was considered an affordable rifle, while the AR was not, and selection for the black rifle was limited. They managed to hold on til bill died and the company was able to resurrect themselves with a more pro-gun attitude. Lots of fudds didn't care about magazine bans either. There are still those types around, but they are fading. |
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From reading some of your posts, it seems like you at least have a little insight into the lobbying/legislative world. Knowing that, do you think it's really possible that a lobbyist secured an exemption for a bunch of companies from a shitty law and he didn't tell someone at said companies about it? That just doesn't pass the smell test for me, but then again, I have no experience in that world. @RWM Quoted:
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I cannot explain how it is not, but it is legal and has been going on for a long long time. I mentioned it in the lock thread, several pages back, some were shocked by this, I was not (regarding the pay to play/meet). As a general rule money talks. Knowing that, do you think it's really possible that a lobbyist secured an exemption for a bunch of companies from a shitty law and he didn't tell someone at said companies about it? That just doesn't pass the smell test for me, but then again, I have no experience in that world. @RWM |
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In this case, pay to play didn't even apply. The legislators in question weren't going to be swayed by the donations, or even listen to what the donor said. They weren't fence sitters. They were rabid anti-gunners. Quoted:
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I cannot explain how it is not, but it is legal and has been going on for a long long time. I mentioned it in the lock thread, several pages back, some were shocked by this, I was not (regarding the pay to play/meet). As a general rule money talks. Knowing that, do you think it's really possible that a lobbyist secured an exemption for a bunch of companies from a shitty law and he didn't tell someone at said companies about it? That just doesn't pass the smell test for me, but then again, I have no experience in that world. @RWM It defies all logic, IMO. |
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From reading some of your posts, it seems like you at least have a little insight into the lobbying/legislative world. Knowing that, do you think it's really possible that a lobbyist secured an exemption for a bunch of companies from a shitty law and he didn't tell someone at said companies about it? That just doesn't pass the smell test for me, but then again, I have no experience in that world. @RWM As Nolo said earlier, pretty sure that's a crime, probably is in most areas, my guess is, it's the way that it is handled that makes it legal or illegal. I doubt you will hear the politician or his staff ever refer to a pay for meeting, but I'm sure the lobbyists and companies who need time with them use that term openly. I have made campaign donations and I have talked with a few guys in office (as many others here have also), I have never been asked for anything. But when a company needs a favor or wants a law or ruling looked into or changed and they hire a professional, it can be treated and or viewed a lil bit different. I am in no way trying to make this sound ok, but it is the reality that we live in. Most people that donate or pay into a fund with a huge sum of money are doing so looking out for their best interests and has been pointed out already, it is not uncommon for a company to play both sides of the fence. This happens quite often, especially when a race may be a close one. As many here have stated that know Illinois and as GB discovered during his inquiry into this issue, politics there are probably the worst in the country. This kind of stuff is in the news on a regular basis, kind of makes you wonder if any of these so called ethic committees and overwatch groups actually do much or if it's just window dressing ? Edit: Realized I didn't answer the real question you asked. Could he have done it without them knowing ? Absolutely And he would have been proud and happy as shit he pulled it off, worse case scenario is they knew within a few hours, my guess is they knew within 30 minutes what he had achieved...(My opinion only) |
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My insight is little, but it is as simple as this, make a donation to a campaign or a political fund or something along those lines and all the sudden that busy schedule or full appt book has an opening for you. As Nolo said earlier, pretty sure that's a crime, probably is in most areas, my guess is, it's the way that it is handled that makes it legal or illegal. I doubt you will hear the politician or his staff ever refer to a pay for meeting, but I'm sure the lobbyists and companies who need time with them use that term openly. I have made campaign donations and I have talked with a few guys in office (as many others here have also), I have never been asked for anything. But when a company needs a favor or wants a law or ruling looked into or changed and they hire a professional, it can be treated and or viewed a lil bit different. I am in no way trying to make this sound ok, but it is the reality that we live in. Most people that donate or pay into a fund with a huge sum of money are doing so looking out for their best interests and has been pointed out already, it is not uncommon for a company to play both sides of the fence. This happens quite often, especially when a race may be a close one. As many here have stated that know Illinois and as GB discovered during his inquiry into this issue, politics there are probably the worst in the country. This kind of stuff is in the news on a regular basis, kind of makes you wonder if any of these so called ethic committees and overwatch groups actually do much or if it's just window dressing ? Edit: Realized I didn't answer the real question you asked. Could he have done it without them knowing ? Absolutely And he would have been proud and happy as shit he pulled it off, worse case scenario is they knew within a few hours, my guess is they knew within 30 minutes what he had achieved...(My opinion only) Quoted:
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From reading some of your posts, it seems like you at least have a little insight into the lobbying/legislative world. Knowing that, do you think it's really possible that a lobbyist secured an exemption for a bunch of companies from a shitty law and he didn't tell someone at said companies about it? That just doesn't pass the smell test for me, but then again, I have no experience in that world. @RWM As Nolo said earlier, pretty sure that's a crime, probably is in most areas, my guess is, it's the way that it is handled that makes it legal or illegal. I doubt you will hear the politician or his staff ever refer to a pay for meeting, but I'm sure the lobbyists and companies who need time with them use that term openly. I have made campaign donations and I have talked with a few guys in office (as many others here have also), I have never been asked for anything. But when a company needs a favor or wants a law or ruling looked into or changed and they hire a professional, it can be treated and or viewed a lil bit different. I am in no way trying to make this sound ok, but it is the reality that we live in. Most people that donate or pay into a fund with a huge sum of money are doing so looking out for their best interests and has been pointed out already, it is not uncommon for a company to play both sides of the fence. This happens quite often, especially when a race may be a close one. As many here have stated that know Illinois and as GB discovered during his inquiry into this issue, politics there are probably the worst in the country. This kind of stuff is in the news on a regular basis, kind of makes you wonder if any of these so called ethic committees and overwatch groups actually do much or if it's just window dressing ? Edit: Realized I didn't answer the real question you asked. Could he have done it without them knowing ? Absolutely And he would have been proud and happy as shit he pulled it off, worse case scenario is they knew within a few hours, my guess is they knew within 30 minutes what he had achieved...(My opinion only) I could possibly buy that their lobbyist originally worked on carving out this exemption without much oversight, but I just can't believe that after it was secured, he never told anyone about it. It defies logic. The only possible explanation then is that RRA and SA are lying now about what they knew and when they knew it. If that's the case, what else are they lying about? I'm thinking both of these companies will be feeling the pain for a long while and rightfully so. I've had my eye on a few Springfield products, but they can choke on a donkey dick at this point. I feel badly for their employees. |
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Madigan wields the kind of power in Illinois that Bloomberg could only dream of. Nothin g gets done in IL without Madigan's say so. That is why almost no pro gun legislation makes it out of committee. Quoted:
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This is what I question. From what I heard, donating to Madigan is like giving money to Bloomberg for all the good it will do. |
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Todd Vandermyde, nra lobbiest in Illinois has been silent.... Or am I missing something?
He has been eye searingly absent from this thread, and the other 31 page thread here, .... I will have to take a look, but forum member Molly might have had maybe just one or two posts in that other 31 page thread. And I will have to take a look over at Illinois Carry...he might have posted once or twice in the SA/RRA related threads.
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I don't think it will do a lick of good, but the USPSA Single Stack Nationals is sponsored by Springfield Armory.
That match is scheduled for May 17-20, at PASA Park, IL. I doubt that there will be any USPSA'ers with enough spine to ask for their match fee to be refunded. Peer pressure can be an amazing thing. If you know of any USPSA'ers competing at the Single Stack Nationals, give them a ration of shit. If you see a buddy at the range or at a match shooting an SA or RRA product, give them a ration of shit: "Hey, man, what are you doing with that traitor's gun?" |
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Pardon the triple post...
With respect to Springfield Armory's new AR, the Saint, are they actually made by SA? Or are they made by RRA and just rebranded with the SA logo? And to avoid having a fourth post in a row.... A big thanks to John Boch (aka Bud something or another here on the forums) for that article posted on TTAG about Keller NOT outright denying a carve out prior to SHOT 2016. I think everybody now knows that this same bill was paraded out this time last year with the exact same carve out for the manufacturers. So both SA and RRA execs had about an 11 month warning that this carve out was in the bill. There is absolutely NO way they didn't know about it.
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I don't think it will do a lick of good, but the USPSA Single Stack Nationals is sponsored by Springfield Armory. That match is scheduled for May 17-20, at PASA Park, IL. I doubt that there will be any USPSA'ers with enough spine to ask for their match fee to be refunded. Peer pressure can be an amazing thing. If you know of any USPSA'ers competing at the Single Stack Nationals, give them a ration of shit. If you see a buddy at the range or at a match shooting an SA or RRA product, give them a ration of shit: "Hey, man, what are you doing with that traitor's gun?" |
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So now I'm supposed to get rid of my RRA AR that I had before this shit went down? Just be prepared if your range "buddies" give you shit about it. If you shoot IDPA or USPSA matches there is a fair amount of cutting up and giving each other a hard time regardless of what gun a person shoots. Well...we did know one guy who shot a jamomatic 1911. His name was Jimmy, so everybody called him Jammin' Jimmy. At one major IDPA match we shot at, I think he placed dead last. The match staff must have felt sorry for him and his jamming 1911, and he just so happened to get randomly drawn to win a new Glock. |
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Nope, not what I am saying at all. Just be prepared if your range "buddies" give you shit about it. If you shoot IDPA or USPSA matches there is a fair amount of cutting up and giving each other a hard time regardless of what gun a person shoots. Well...we did know one guy who shot a jamomatic 1911. His name was Jimmy, so everybody called him Jammin' Jimmy. At one major IDPA match we shot at, I think he placed dead last. The match staff must have felt sorry for him and his jamming 1911, and he just so happened to get randomly drawn to win a new Glock. |
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Isn't that dandy. Get exempted from the law that screws every gun owner over in IL. Then skate out of the state.
More blue falcon shit from RRA. Quoted:
This did come up in my talks with RRA. I can't go into what was said, but it is something they have considered and may be considering more strongly now. Quoted:
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A couple years ago SA was mad about the taxes they were paying in Illinois and Iowa made it clear to them that we love gun manufacturers and would find them a place in Eastern Iowa but they wouldn't leave Illinois  |
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I refuse to benefit groups like Everytown, by attacking our own. |
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I refuse to benefit groups like Everytown, by attacking our own. At the core is the fact that neither RRA or SA have acknowledged knowing what was going on. There is plenty that has been brought forth by TTAG and others that indicates they knew and knew for a while, along with basic common sense. At the heart of this has been the repeatedly ( in terms of modern social media) delayed responses from both companies that have eventually gotten to the "I had no idea what was going on but I will gallantly accept responsibility because we should have been paying attention" theme they have today. The manufacturers knew, and the responses are disengenuous and insulting at best and untruthful at worst. There has been no mea culpa, no true apology - only spin and half truth. |
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CLIFF FUCKING NOTES! Too tired to read that wall of sidestep speak. Tell me what page the cliff notes are on. I am going to check my eyelids for leaks right now.  |
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If you and I were actually friends, in person, I would never say anything like that because I would already know it pains you or that it bothers you to own a SA or RRA product. I never was a fan of boycotting, but it doesn't mean that I would purchase anything else from them until this is resolved in an acceptable manner. |
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This thread and many like it remind me why I typically hate gun owners as a whole when it comes to the shooting sports. We are the most divided group, and our own worst enemy. We turn on our own without even understanding the process, and bitch endlessly about the unwanted junk mail from the NRA. (Which takes a phone call to end, or opt out of). Of course these same mindless idiots who complain don't have a fucking clue about advertising, and can't understand all that junk mail doesn't cost the NRA 1 single penny. Its all paid by advertisers. Because most are mindless fuckwits, trying to get them to understand basic business is akin to teaching dirt how to read poetry. Its no different than idiots who don't have a home and simply state "Just move" when things in the area aren't great. They have zero understanding of the cost of moving, finding a new home, selling the existing home, etc. No fucking clue, but they can spout out what to do, yet they probably never even left home to begin with. Attacking RRA/SA just because is stupid. Thats it. Lets boycott two companies and cause dozens of gun enthusiast to be out a job because of some asshole lobbyist fucked up because he gets paid wether or not the legislature works in his favor or not. So stand proud assholes and lets crush another gun institution without knowing fuck all about whats going on! We had manufacturers, TRUSTED names, turning on us as if we, the American people, the very people they sell their products to, were criminals. Names like Ruger, Smith and Wesson, and Colt saying that they were no longer going to sell guns to the people, instead just to the government. Hell, Ruger specifically HELPED get the AWB passed! They asked for an exemption and got it, but as soon as the Democrats got a chance, they stabbed Ruger in the back too. The press wasn't nearly as poisonous then as it is now. There is *NO* space for not standing together. None whatsoever. Now any word from a gun manufacturer or expert celebrity is read and re-read to find any sign of supporting restrictions to 2nd Amendment freedoms. Bill Zumbo calling all of us who like AR15's terrorists was quoted and re-quoted in every liberal rag in the country. "See! Even the gun nuts agree that we should ban guns!" His career was ended and ended fast and hard and for good reason. He is and was a traitor. Same went for Recoil magazine. etc etc Ad Nauseum. Today we are in a flat out war against agents of oppression. Remember the AHSA? How many Fudds did they dupe into that shit? Today they're after our "Assault Rifles." Tomorrow it will absolutely be our "Indiscriminate Scatterguns" and "High Powered Sniper Rifles" or our "Handcannons." We can't afford to have traitors in our midst, whether they know that they're traitors or not. |
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Because your join date is close to mine, I'll assume you and I are very nearly the same age, which means you lived through the 94-2004 stupidity. We had manufacturers, TRUSTED names, turning on us as if we, the American people, the very people they sell their products to, were criminals. Names like Ruger, Smith and Wesson, and Colt saying that they were no longer going to sell guns to the people, instead just to the government. Hell, Ruger specifically HELPED get the AWB passed! They asked for an exemption and got it, but as soon as the Democrats got a chance, they stabbed Ruger in the back too. The press wasn't nearly as poisonous then as it is now. There is *NO* space for not standing together. None whatsoever. Now any word from a gun manufacturer or expert celebrity is read and re-read to find any sign of supporting restrictions to 2nd Amendment freedoms. Bill Zumbo calling all of us who like AR15's terrorists was quoted and re-quoted in every liberal rag in the country. "See! Even the gun nuts agree that we should ban guns!" His career was ended and ended fast and hard and for good reason. He is and was a traitor. . Not to justify us getting stabbed in the back during the Clinton years... But Clinton, and his henchmen, namely Janet Reno, were targeting manufacturers. More than they are getting targeted now. There was *extreme* pressure on firearms manufacturers back then. Reno was *openly* talking about opening-up manufacturers to civil and criminal liability in firearms deaths. Manufacturers were going to be shut-down by liability by the Clinton regime if they did not play. That is what makes no sense to me today... We have a friendly President, and a (more than Clinton) friendly DOJ. Why dance with anti-gun, open-borders Democrats now? Now, it makes zero sense. |
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Well... Not to justify us getting stabbed in the back during the Clinton years... But Clinton, and his henchmen, namely Janet Reno, were targeting manufacturers. More than they are getting targeted now. There was *extreme* pressure on firearms manufacturers back then. Reno was *openly* talking about opening-up manufacturers to civil and criminal liability in firearms deaths. Manufacturers were going to be shut-down by liability by the Clinton regime if they did not play. That is what makes no sense to me today... We have a friendly President, and a (more than Clinton) friendly DOJ. Why dance with anti-gun, open-borders Democrats now? Now, it makes zero sense. Quoted:
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Because your join date is close to mine, I'll assume you and I are very nearly the same age, which means you lived through the 94-2004 stupidity. We had manufacturers, TRUSTED names, turning on us as if we, the American people, the very people they sell their products to, were criminals. Names like Ruger, Smith and Wesson, and Colt saying that they were no longer going to sell guns to the people, instead just to the government. Hell, Ruger specifically HELPED get the AWB passed! They asked for an exemption and got it, but as soon as the Democrats got a chance, they stabbed Ruger in the back too. The press wasn't nearly as poisonous then as it is now. There is *NO* space for not standing together. None whatsoever. Now any word from a gun manufacturer or expert celebrity is read and re-read to find any sign of supporting restrictions to 2nd Amendment freedoms. Bill Zumbo calling all of us who like AR15's terrorists was quoted and re-quoted in every liberal rag in the country. "See! Even the gun nuts agree that we should ban guns!" His career was ended and ended fast and hard and for good reason. He is and was a traitor. . Not to justify us getting stabbed in the back during the Clinton years... But Clinton, and his henchmen, namely Janet Reno, were targeting manufacturers. More than they are getting targeted now. There was *extreme* pressure on firearms manufacturers back then. Reno was *openly* talking about opening-up manufacturers to civil and criminal liability in firearms deaths. Manufacturers were going to be shut-down by liability by the Clinton regime if they did not play. That is what makes no sense to me today... We have a friendly President, and a (more than Clinton) friendly DOJ. Why dance with anti-gun, open-borders Democrats now? Now, it makes zero sense. Why dance with anti-gun, open-borders Democrats now? 
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In all of my short years of being at the Capitol. Never have I ever needed to donate a dime to be heard. Sure, they might not listen and give me lip service like what Senator Anitere Flores did back in March. But I never had to donate a penny to her or anyone else.
The fact that SA and RRA is using that as an excuse for their actions is laughable. I'm not questioning that Illinois politics is dirt and corrupt. I am questioning the common sense logic of donating ten or thousands of dollars to two of the biggest gun grabbers and civil rights violators in the State. If they expected that either of them would bend and end their assaults on the 2nd Amendment for all. Then I have some land in the Everglades to sell them. Their actions show that they wanted to secure and get the own carve out and exemptions to this. The 2nd Amendment community is VERY different than another industry. None of the others are tied to a Constitutional Right that is constantly under attack. The auto industry, gaming industry, collector Pokemon card industry, etc..... only the porn industry (1st Amendment) is and they're not under threat as much as we are. We must hang together for if don't. We will surely hang separately. The good doctor had it right then and had it right now. All traitors to the cause must be dealt with. SA and RRA are very much quislings, traitors, and Judases. Their actions were like the Jews that worked with the Nazis in the Ghettos and helped oppress their own for personal gain. (Yes, Godwin's Law has been invoked). Either we work together in a unified voice or our enemies will destroy us via divide and conquer. Those in the community that believe they can get a carve out or some silver for selling their brothers and sisters down the river have a surprise coming. The dark days are over. Nothing can be kept secret. Especially when we have instant communication via social media and the internet as a whole. |
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But GB, Jay Keller wasn't fired until Tuesday May 2 and I have already proved that the manufacturers involved tried to pull this off once before, on May 27, 2016. And I provided the transcript from the IL House floor the day the roll call vote shot it down. That was a year ago and I am pretty sure this was all put in motion in JANUARY 2016 over fourteen months ago. Have you asked RRA and SA to explain that? From the transcript of 5/27/2016 page 7: "This Amendment put in a lot of work. The reason it is #6 is because we made sure that we took everybody's considerations into language. I'd be happy to go over, briefly, what those changes were, if you'll bear with me a second while I pull that up. Okay. So… we took in… making sure we added additional exemptions, we put in the manufacturers of firearms are exempt, and that is, in fact, one of the reasons we had so many making sure that we listen to their language and put their language in there directly. We also put exemptions in here for those that were selling off parts or all of their collections." Here's a link to the actual transcript: Illinois Legislature 5/27/2016 House Bill 1016 roll call vote Sorry, while I am not sure about RRAs involvement, Denny Reese the CEO and owner of SA is/was directly involved in this. |
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Is it not bribery to accept payment for facetime? If I donated $ 20k legally to his/dnc etc campaigns do you think someone would remember me and maybe I'd get 5 minutes? |
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If I call Chuck Schumer today and ask to talk to him about a business client looking for some kind of help will he meet with me? If I donated $ 20k legally to his/dnc etc campaigns do you think someone would remember me and maybe I'd get 5 minutes? Quoted:
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Is it not bribery to accept payment for facetime? If I donated $ 20k legally to his/dnc etc campaigns do you think someone would remember me and maybe I'd get 5 minutes? But I know that Chuck won't listen to me anyways even if I pay. He'll just pay me lip service then vote to strip away my rights. |
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Seems to me these are excuses. If the gun manufacturers wanted to make a statement they would all band together and stop selling to .gov and manufacturing in ban states but they don't because the almighty dollar. So most of them are sell outs if you ask me.
Don't get me started on paying for face time with a politician.
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If the gun manufacturers wanted to make a statement they would all band together and stop selling to .gov and manufacturing in ban states but they don't because the almighty dollar. If they had nutted up and done that back in 1934 then GCA '68 would never have passed. |
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LOL. You are clearly not familiar with Illinois politics. Where governors go to jail. We're talking about people who elect crooks time after time for years. Read about Dan Rostenkowski. Proving corruption is not enough to get people voted out in Illinois. |
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To SAI and RRA: Dont worry guys, all you need to do is publicly donate some money to the NRA and all will be forgiven. Considering the NRA ILA silence on this issue and their response back to me on my inquiry, I'm not sure if they care. If I was a wealthy man, I would hire this top notch lobbiest to do all the work to get the arfcommers elected to the NRA board, fight fire with fire. Hell this guy may be a great lobbiest, took a lot to get these people a cutout in Illinois I bet. For what it's worth I don't hold any ill feelings toward the lobbyist who was doing the job that he was paid to do, the fuck up is on SA and RR !!! I equate this portion of it to a good courtroom litigator vs a not so good lazy settlement lawyer, don't be pissed that you hired the worse of the 2 guys for your civil trial. How many time have you heard, "well I had a shitty lawyer"...ha ha ..get what you pay for sometimes. |
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So now I'm supposed to get rid of my RRA AR that I had before this shit went down? 
Imagine being asked what's under the tape & being able to answer what you're covering & why you can't look at anymore. Carrys WAY more weight than buying a new lower, IMHO... |
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Gorilla tape has many uses & it use can sometimes send loud messages...
Imagine being asked what's under the tape & being able to answer what you're covering & why you can't look at anymore. Carrys WAY more weight than buying a new lower, IMHO... Quoted:
Gorilla tape has many uses & it use can sometimes send loud messages...
Imagine being asked what's under the tape & being able to answer what you're covering & why you can't look at anymore. Carrys WAY more weight than buying a new lower, IMHO... Lemme crack open my history book.... Faliero [55th Doge or Duke of Venice] was condemned to damnatio memoriae, and accordingly his portrait displayed in the Sala del Maggior Consiglio (Hall of the Great Council) in the Doge's Palace was removed and the space painted over with a black shroud, which can still be seen in the hall today. A Latin language inscription on the painted shroud reads: Hic est locus Marini Faletro decapitati pro criminibus ("This is the space reserved for Marino Faliero, beheaded for his crimes").[4] |