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From my conversations this is somewhat normal. The biggest issue here was that he was not a firearm guy and did not have history to fall back on. Keep in mind that since 2009 he had been fighting legislation successfully without an issue. Make sure my lobbyist understands EVERYTHING about anything he is representing me for ! |
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Every firearm manufacturer should move into an industrial complex just down the road from where I live. It has everything they could need, adjacent to a rail and less than a mile to I-70, low taxes, cheap power, and plenty of water. A first class existing indoor range with classrooms is located in an adjacent industrial park.
If they fill that park, there's plenty of space available within 5 miles. How does this sound, "The Missouri Firearms Manufacturers Park"? |
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This did come up in my talks with RRA. I can't go into what was said, but it is something they have considered and may be considering more strongly now. Quoted:
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A couple years ago SA was mad about the taxes they were paying in Illinois and Iowa made it clear to them that we love gun manufacturers and would find them a place in Eastern Iowa but they wouldn't leave Illinois  
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This did come up in my talks with RRA. I can't go into what was said, but it is something they have considered and may be considering more strongly now. |
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@goatboy
While I don't agree that all the things you posted are facts, I believe you believe them. Appreciate the time and effort you took investigating this and laying the situation out as they have explained it to you. I am sure that your diligence and calm will not go unnoticed by your other sponsors. I suspect the void will be filled soon. 
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This thread and many like it remind me why I typically hate gun owners as a whole when it comes to the shooting sports. We are the most divided group, and our own worst enemy. We turn on our own without even understanding the process, and bitch endlessly about the unwanted junk mail from the NRA. (Which takes a phone call to end, or opt out of). Of course these same mindless idiots who complain don't have a fucking clue about advertising, and can't understand all that junk mail doesn't cost the NRA 1 single penny. Its all paid by advertisers. Because most are mindless fuckwits, trying to get them to understand basic business is akin to teaching dirt how to read poetry.
Its no different than idiots who don't have a home and simply state "Just move" when things in the area aren't great. They have zero understanding of the cost of moving, finding a new home, selling the existing home, etc. No fucking clue, but they can spout out what to do, yet they probably never even left home to begin with. Attacking RRA/SA just because is stupid. Thats it. Lets boycott two companies and cause dozens of gun enthusiast to be out a job because of some asshole lobbyist fucked up because he gets paid wether or not the legislature works in his favor or not. So stand proud assholes and lets crush another gun institution without knowing fuck all about whats going on! |
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Todd Vandermyde, nra lobbiest in Illinois has been silent.... Or am I missing something? I asked em not to go after em but at least shed light on the anti gun campaign donations. They said enough was already written on the subject. I can give you the complete conversation if you like. |
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Probably already lobbying Chicago PD,Illinois State Patrol,etc. to be their new patrol rifles.
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Thank you for the update. |
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I don't think you're missing anything, they (NRA ILA) more or less told me that defeating the bill was priority not going after S/A or R/R. I asked em not to go after em but at least shed light on the anti gun campaign donations. They said enough was already written on the subject. I can give you the complete conversation if you like. |
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Do not be harsh on the NRA-ILA. They showed the eff up in Iowa and helped us pass the largest gun bill in our States history. I was impressed tbh. Quoted:
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I don't think you're missing anything, they (NRA ILA) more or less told me that defeating the bill was priority not going after S/A or R/R. I asked em not to go after em but at least shed light on the anti gun campaign donations. They said enough was already written on the subject. I can give you the complete conversation if you like. |
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Thanks for all the hard work on this Goatboy.
I quit using RRA a while ago. Found stuff I liked better. Unless they sell the company and no Reese is ever involved with that company AND move out of Illinois, they will never get another red cent from me. EVER. FUCK THEM!  
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From my conversations this is somewhat normal. The biggest issue here was that he was not a firearm guy and did not have history to fall back on. Keep in mind that since 2009 he had been fighting legislation successfully without an issue. Nope. They didn't. In fact, the smart thing to do would've been to immediately put out a statement explaining what Mr. Uninformed had done (unbeknownst to them) and that he was immediately terminated. They would have GAINED support from our community.
But they didn't.  They rolled the dice at the expense of IL gun-owners & another nail in the 2nd A.
And lost. GTFO! 
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This thread and many like it remind me why I typically hate gun owners as a whole when it comes to the shooting sports. We are the most divided group, and our own worst enemy. We turn on our own without even understanding the process, and bitch endlessly about the unwanted junk mail from the NRA. (Which takes a phone call to end, or opt out of). Of course these same mindless idiots who complain don't have a fucking clue about advertising, and can't understand all that junk mail doesn't cost the NRA 1 single penny. Its all paid by advertisers. Because most are mindless fuckwits, trying to get them to understand basic business is akin to teaching dirt how to read poetry. Its no different than idiots who don't have a home and simply state "Just move" when things in the area aren't great. They have zero understanding of the cost of moving, finding a new home, selling the existing home, etc. No fucking clue, but they can spout out what to do, yet they probably never even left home to begin with. Attacking RRA/SA just because is stupid. Thats it. Lets boycott two companies and cause dozens of gun enthusiast to be out a job because of some asshole lobbyist fucked up because he gets paid wether or not the legislature works in his favor or not. So stand proud assholes and lets crush another gun institution without knowing fuck all about whats going on! |
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But there is no way that he didn't inform them that he had carved out an exemption for them. No way. That would be such a win for him/them, that he would HAVE to tell them. So, right then, did they tell Mr. Non-Firearms guy, "Oh, hell no, that would be unfair and would destroy us in the 2nd A/ firearms community! Rescind that shit immediately!" Nope. They didn't. In fact, the smart thing to do would've been to immediately put out a statement explaining what Mr. Uninformed had done (unbeknownst to them) and that he was immediately terminated. They would have GAINED support from our community.
But they didn't. They rolled the dice at the expense of IL gun-owners & another nail in the 2nd A.
And lost. GTFO! |
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Fuck em. It's sickening but GB's decision is largely irrelevant, other than to ARFCom. I owned and ran a company for a long time. My wife is a state legislator. I know how lobbying works. The idea that RRA/SA were ignorant of what happened is laughable, to say the least. Also, good to know that ARFCom owners are good with giving money to anti-gunner politicians, so long as it's just for a meeting and not for things like carve-outs and protectionist provisions. Man... that's fucking weak and deep down, everyone knows it. Everyone. |
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I don't much care that RRA and SA gave their paid mouthpiece a freehand and then were plumb surprised it blew up on them.
Their employee directly helped create a situation where unknown numbers of LGS and gun owners in that state will be materially harmed by this and attacked your constitution as a bonus. Sorry isn't enough and ex post facto activism is a little late. To hell with them both. |
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Yes. He was fired and the IFMA is no longer an active entity. From the transcript of 5/27/2016 page 7: "This Amendment put in a lot of work. The reason it is #6 is because we made sure that we took everybody's considerations into language. I'd be happy to go over, briefly, what those changes were, if you'll bear with me a second while I pull that up. Okay. So… we took in… making sure we added additional exemptions, we put in the manufacturers of firearms are exempt, and that is, in fact, one of the reasons we had so many making sure that we listen to their language and put their language in there directly. We also put exemptions in here for those that were selling off parts or all of their collections." Here's a link to the actual transcript: Illinois Legislature 5/27/2016 House Bill 1016 roll call vote Sorry, while I am not sure about RRAs involvement, Denny Reese the CEO and owner of SA is/was directly involved in this. |
| I live in Illinois and this affects me greatly. I've personally spoken to both RRA and SA about this and voiced my disappointment with them. I will never forgive nor forget what has happened due to their lack of oversight ( so they say). But at this point, the enemy of my enemy is my friend/ally.... At least for now. Once we defeat SB1657 we can decide what to do as a community with RRA and SA. I believe both know if this bill passes their companies will be in grave danger. |
| I understand about greasing palms to lubricate thu machinery. But I reiterate what d said in the other thread: nobody should be donating to Madigan. I can see throwing some toward Dems downstate who are more open, but any dealing with Madigan that does not include a noose is practically treason. |
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@GoatBoy thank you very much for your hard work at very dirty job 
I have but one remaining question; Has either company made any public move that I've not seen towards disavowing any 'carve out' that was made in that backroom deal? Thank You Again!! |
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Every firearm manufacturer should move into an industrial complex just down the road from where I live. It has everything they could need, adjacent to a rail and less than a mile to I-70, low taxes, cheap power, and plenty of water. A first class existing indoor range with classrooms is located in an adjacent industrial park. If they fill that park, there's plenty of space available within 5 miles. How does this sound, "The Missouri Firearms Manufacturers Park"? |
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This thread and many like it remind me why I typically hate gun owners as a whole when it comes to the shooting sports. We are the most divided group, and our own worst enemy. We turn on our own without even understanding the process, and bitch endlessly about the unwanted junk mail from the NRA. (Which takes a phone call to end, or opt out of). Of course these same mindless idiots who complain don't have a fucking clue about advertising, and can't understand all that junk mail doesn't cost the NRA 1 single penny. Its all paid by advertisers. Because most are mindless fuckwits, trying to get them to understand basic business is akin to teaching dirt how to read poetry. Its no different than idiots who don't have a home and simply state "Just move" when things in the area aren't great. They have zero understanding of the cost of moving, finding a new home, selling the existing home, etc. No fucking clue, but they can spout out what to do, yet they probably never even left home to begin with. Attacking RRA/SA just because is stupid. Thats it. Lets boycott two companies and cause dozens of gun enthusiast to be out a job because of some asshole lobbyist fucked up because he gets paid wether or not the legislature works in his favor or not. So stand proud assholes and lets crush another gun institution without knowing fuck all about whats going on! When you hire someone to represent you and they screw up, you as the person paying them still own it, saying you were blindsided and didn't know does not cover your ass. Regarding the NRA, I'm not sure about this junk mail issue as it doesn't happen to me. My issues are: I want more from them, I want new blood in there, I want the old boy network to go away. I want people that believe the 2nd is exactly what it is..(no compromises)...crush the competition. I'm not gonna address the moving issue as that is a major corporate decision and the big picture has to be looked at. I also like dirt and don't read poetry. Signed A Proud Asshole |
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Absolutely. The James Comey approach from ARFCom is incredibly disappointing, but it was like a near verbatim repeat. It's sickening but GB's decision is largely irrelevant, other than to ARFCom. I owned and ran a company for a long time. My wife is a state legislator. I know how lobbying works. The idea that RRA/SA were ignorant of what happened is laughable, to say the least. Also, good to know that ARFCom owners are good with giving money to anti-gunner politicians, so long as it's just for a meeting and not for things like carve-outs and protectionist provisions. Man... that's fucking weak and deep down, everyone knows it. Everyone. Quoted:
Absolutely. The James Comey approach from ARFCom is incredibly disappointing, but it was like a near verbatim repeat. It's sickening but GB's decision is largely irrelevant, other than to ARFCom. I owned and ran a company for a long time. My wife is a state legislator. I know how lobbying works. The idea that RRA/SA were ignorant of what happened is laughable, to say the least. Also, good to know that ARFCom owners are good with giving money to anti-gunner politicians, so long as it's just for a meeting and not for things like carve-outs and protectionist provisions. Man... that's fucking weak and deep down, everyone knows it. Everyone. 
Because of this, we have terminated our relationship with RRA... |
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In the case of IFMA, there were donations made to anti gun politicians, which folks have questioned. From what I was able to learn, it is commonplace to have to "pay" for your voice to be heard. Most often it's in smaller amounts, but I did hear that the amounts "required" can be quite staggering |
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Worth a watch.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ioM5NZ-fwtI
Fuck them both until they do the right thing and leave IL. Me too, I'm done with both |
| If RRA's lobbying and the resulting legislation was through negligence/accident and not through premeditated selfishness or malice why terminate arfcom's relationship with them? I get that the connection could reflect poorly on arfcom but it seems like a kneejerk reaction that would make gun companies wary of joining the site. |
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What a crock of bullshit. The money donated went to Madigan and Cullerton, the two biggest anti gun fanatics in the state. Price of a meeting for what? so they can fucking spit in your face and tell you to get fucked? They have Bloombergs money already and they've never met a pro gun bill they didn't try to kill in committee or refuse to allow a vote on. The reason we don't have legal suppressors in IL right now is because Cullerton wouldn't let the bill come to a vote when we have the votes to pass it.
That's not even mentioning the carve out that they seem to be just fucking fine with. "our lobbyist went rogue" my fucking ass he did... That's why it took 4 days to release a statement that was pure bullshit then another day of being bombarded by pissed off customers to fire the prick? Both companies are to blame not the lobbyist. You really think that a bill like this that would have a large negative impact on both companies wasn't being watched by the owners? That's some weapons grade retardation from the owners if true. I will not forgive or forget this bullshit from either company. They fucked us, flat out fucked us and now that they got busted they are trying to save face and make excuses. Watch the cockroaches run across the river if the bill passes. At least they are getting mostly kicked off the site. Hopefully permanently. |