[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Pistol brace rule signed (VACATED 6/13/24) (Page 20 of 160)
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Quoted: my understanding is it comes down to: can your parts not be assembled into a legal configuration. So you can have as many short uppers and barrels as your hearts content as long as you have at least 1 pistol or SBRed lower, regardless of your number of title-1 rifle lowers (but you need one 16"+ upper for each title-1 rifle lower otherwise you'd be in constructive possession). You can also have a 10" upper if you have zero lowers that would accept it, at all (you have no way to assemble a gun from this upper... so its just random parts to them) . But if you have a single 10" upper/barrel with ONLY title-1 rifles lowers (even if each one is completely assembled and has a 16" upper sitting on it) then youd be in constructive possession of an illegal SBR as the 10" upper has no legal way of being assembled into a complete gun AND the possibilty exists that you could). I have never heard of this, ever. Can you point to a document that says this? This would mean all the parts companies would be in non-compliance and would be suspected of constructive possession of SBRs. |
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Quoted: This. Quoted: Quoted: Second Amendment Foundation v BATFE is in the Northern District of Texas, in the 5th Circuit, and has been held pending the final rule for several months. Now that the final rule is at hand, and Cargill v Garland says the ATF does not have the authority to change it's mind on the legality of products subjecting owners to criminal liability, expect things to move quickly. Kharn This. Also, I don’t give a shit |
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Quoted: Those are awesome. Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: If they wouldn’t, do you really think they should admit to as much on a public forum that’s also regularly monitored by the feds? I don’t. I think that’d be pretty moronic. Almost as moronic as expecting them to do so. LOL. You need to go look at replies to @ATFHQ Link to the Tweets Those are awesome. Yeah, glad to see such a mix of people openly telling them what they can do with this load of crap. |
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Will people who paid the $200 tax to buy or make an SBR already have standing to sue for a refund? Seems like bullshit that the folks who did things how the government wanted them to had to pay the tax, and people who did th in ngs the way the government didn't want them to get the stamp for free. It's like the whole student loan thing. People who paid off their loans don't get loan forgiveness, but people who didn't pay them off do. The tax shouldn't even exist, and I think the NFA should be struck down, everyone should get a refund for every stamp they ever bought, and new machine guns should be available with 2 day prime shipping. |
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Quoted: Everyone's a gangsta until sentencing. Just like the j6 guys "Oh I was badly influenced by bad influencers on the internet. Please don't give me prison time" Hey if you want to do time over this, God bless you for being a hard ass. Your loved ones will cry and you'll be quickly forgotten here (remember the poor cop here who got J6ed?). I'm not interested in losing out on 3-5 years of my little kid's lives. I never paid much attention to AR pistols and SBRs. I've shot 14.5 ARs plenty and never saw much appeal. Last week figuring this was coming I bought this $ 500 wonder https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/14563/888F8286-97D9-44A8-B221-643D80366D38-2671297.jpg I haven't had a chance to shoot it but it sure is a sweet looking little lead thrower. Is it worth not putting my kids to bed, taking them to tennis practice, watching them sing in the Christmas Choir show for a half a decade? And let's be honest, you tough talkers aren't going to show up with a helicopter, M4s and a rope ladder when I'm in the prison rec yard. This I’m a husband, a father and the source of income for my family. I’m not going to lose my job, house and fuck up my kids life over a brace. I’ve got SBRs, I’ll have a few more now. |
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Quoted: Everyone's a gangsta until sentencing. Just like the j6 guys "Oh I was badly influenced by bad influencers on the internet. Please don't give me prison time" Hey if you want to do time over this, God bless you for being a hard ass. Your loved ones will cry and you'll be quickly forgotten here (remember the poor cop here who got J6ed?). I'm not interested in losing out on 3-5 years of my little kid's lives. I never paid much attention to AR pistols and SBRs. I've shot 14.5 ARs plenty and never saw much appeal. Last week figuring this was coming I bought this $ 500 wonder https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/14563/888F8286-97D9-44A8-B221-643D80366D38-2671297.jpg I haven't had a chance to shoot it but it sure is a sweet looking little lead thrower. Is it worth not putting my kids to bed, taking them to tennis practice, watching them sing in the Christmas Choir show for a half a decade? And let's be honest, you tough talkers aren't going to show up with a helicopter, M4s and a rope ladder when I'm in the prison rec yard. I'll happily give you $50 for it since you don't want it now. |
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Quoted: Everyone's a gangsta until sentencing. Just like the j6 guys "Oh I was badly influenced by bad influencers on the internet. Please don't give me prison time" Hey if you want to do time over this, God bless you for being a hard ass. Your loved ones will cry and you'll be quickly forgotten here (remember the poor cop here who got J6ed?). I'm not interested in losing out on 3-5 years of my little kid's lives. I never paid much attention to AR pistols and SBRs. I've shot 14.5 ARs plenty and never saw much appeal. Last week figuring this was coming I bought this $ 500 wonder https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/14563/888F8286-97D9-44A8-B221-643D80366D38-2671297.jpg I haven't had a chance to shoot it but it sure is a sweet looking little lead thrower. Is it worth not putting my kids to bed, taking them to tennis practice, watching them sing in the Christmas Choir show for a half a decade? And let's be honest, you tough talkers aren't going to show up with a helicopter, M4s and a rope ladder when I'm in the prison rec yard. And this is why this kind of stuff continues. Because we, myself included, are scared to ruin our comfortable lifestyle. Because you're not a revolutionary on the losing side, you're a domestic terrorist. |
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Quoted: So this doesn't apply to a Shockwave...firearm. If you are talking about a shotgun with a brace then I am unaware of a ruling that a shockwave can have a brace. I know mossberg never made a shockwave with a brace. Think about it how could you possibly shoot a shockwave one handed? I think a shockwave with a brace modification is already an NFA SBS. |
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Quoted: It looks like guns with the old fashioned Sig braces and shockwaves are exempt.Or any other braces If they can be attached to the arm then they are not covered by this. The idea is that if it cannot be attached to the arm as originally intended then it is a stock. Basically most braces are designed to brace the weight of the gun by attaching the brace to the forearm. If it can attach to the arm as intended then it will not be considered a stock. This seems to be another panic like when everyone decided to mass hallucinate the guidance letter for shouldering braces. Basically, if I am reading this correctly, you can get free stamps, but also, braces are legal if you can attach them to your arm.  If the ATF was really smart they would use the ensuing flood of paperwork to get the NFA program modernized and attached to the NICS. Get the whole process done as fast as a background check to buy regular guns. They would collect a huge increase in revenue and get to show the politicians that they have done more background checks than ever before. Win win. The AFT has rescinded all it's former brace letters. |
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Quoted: If you are talking about a shotgun with a brace then I am unaware of a ruling that a shockwave can have a brace. I know mossberg never made a shockwave with a brace. Think about it how could you possibly shoot a shockwave one handed? I think a shockwave with a brace modification is already an NFA SBS. Quoted: Quoted: So this doesn't apply to a Shockwave...firearm. If you are talking about a shotgun with a brace then I am unaware of a ruling that a shockwave can have a brace. I know mossberg never made a shockwave with a brace. Think about it how could you possibly shoot a shockwave one handed? I think a shockwave with a brace modification is already an NFA SBS. Bring it back towards your body to work the action, fire it with only one hand on the grip. Kharn |
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Quoted: I don't give a shit what you do with them, that's every man's choice to make for himself. Those who do not comply I back and wish the best of luck. It's a chance I'm not willing to take. I don't agree with the ruling one bit, but there's a hell of a lot of laws I don't agree with that I follow as well. I also understand those who don't want to be on the NFA list, but I'm already well established on it. However those who don't believe there is a database of every 4473 you've ever filled out are kidding themselves. Plenty of people have bought AR's that didn't have a 4473 attached to it. |
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I can't help but wonder what the state of the world would be today if people throughout history, who stood up for what they believed in, had instead decided that they had too much to lose and chose the path of compliance instead. What's one more little rule, right?.. |
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Quoted: Hopefully? They said to document the application so provided you do that and keep it on hand, federally I don't see the issue. For me though, SBRs are apparently illegal in my state unless they're registered with the federal government, so would I chance showing one off to a state trooper without the actual stamp in hand? Probably not. Think about manufacturers like PSA. They're about to be left holding the bag of a bunch of worthless shit. It wouldn't surprise me if this caused bankruptcies.  You think some plastic SBA3 braces no longer being sold is going to bankrupt PSA? |
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Quoted: my understanding is it comes down to: can your parts not be assembled into a legal configuration. So you can have as many short uppers and barrels as your hearts content as long as you have at least 1 pistol or SBRed lower, regardless of your number of title-1 rifle lowers (but you need one 16"+ upper for each title-1 rifle lower otherwise you'd be in constructive possession). You can also have a 10" upper if you have zero lowers that would accept it, at all (you have no way to assemble a gun from this upper... so its just random parts to them) . But if you have a single 10" upper/barrel with ONLY title-1 rifles lowers (even if each one is completely assembled and has a 16" upper sitting on it) then youd be in constructive possession of an illegal SBR as the 10" upper has no legal way of being assembled into a complete gun AND the possibilty exists that you could). Quoted: Quoted: I don't want to rant or rave about the justice of this (it is totally retarded). But, I need to think through all the options in order to proceed rationally. Let's say someone owned both a Ruger PC carbine and PC Charger. Because the Charger barrel can go right on a PC carbine; would the carbine need to be stamped if the short barrel for it were readily available such as sitting in the same damn safe? my understanding is it comes down to: can your parts not be assembled into a legal configuration. So you can have as many short uppers and barrels as your hearts content as long as you have at least 1 pistol or SBRed lower, regardless of your number of title-1 rifle lowers (but you need one 16"+ upper for each title-1 rifle lower otherwise you'd be in constructive possession). You can also have a 10" upper if you have zero lowers that would accept it, at all (you have no way to assemble a gun from this upper... so its just random parts to them) . But if you have a single 10" upper/barrel with ONLY title-1 rifles lowers (even if each one is completely assembled and has a 16" upper sitting on it) then youd be in constructive possession of an illegal SBR as the 10" upper has no legal way of being assembled into a complete gun AND the possibilty exists that you could). Thank you. So the presumption would be, if the Charger is stamped and the carbine not, then no one could say HA!, that short barrel could be put on that carbine creating an unregistered SBR. However if you stamped the carbine, then one could use it with the short barrel. Then, if traveling, one could then put the 16" on it and it would not be an NFA item. |
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Quoted: You think some plastic SBA3 braces no longer being sold is going to bankrupt PSA? Quoted: Quoted: Hopefully? They said to document the application so provided you do that and keep it on hand, federally I don't see the issue. For me though, SBRs are apparently illegal in my state unless they're registered with the federal government, so would I chance showing one off to a state trooper without the actual stamp in hand? Probably not. Think about manufacturers like PSA. They're about to be left holding the bag of a bunch of worthless shit. It wouldn't surprise me if this caused bankruptcies. You think some plastic SBA3 braces no longer being sold is going to bankrupt PSA? As of right now you can still order them on their website. |
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Quoted: The AFT has rescinded all it's former brace letters. What good is any letter if it can be arbitrarily rescinded at any time? This whole thing feels like you're playing a board game with a little kid who gets to make up new rules whenever they feel like they start losing.... 
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| A big question with this is how can they waive the $200 tax stamp? That is written into the NFA, which is law passed by congress. Correct me if I'm wrong, but it would be illegal for them to "waive" a tax, right? That's violating the NFA. if they can waive a tax law, why can't they change any of it? Raise it to 1,000,000 if they want. |
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Quoted: It looks like guns with the old fashioned Sig braces and shockwaves are exempt.Or any other braces If they can be attached to the arm then they are not covered by this. The idea is that if it cannot be attached to the arm as originally intended then it is a stock. Basically most braces are designed to brace the weight of the gun by attaching the brace to the forearm. If it can attach to the arm as intended then it will not be considered a stock. This seems to be another panic like when everyone decided to mass hallucinate the guidance letter for shouldering braces. Basically, if I am reading this correctly, you can get free stamps, but also, braces are legal if you can attach them to your arm. If the ATF was really smart they would use the ensuing flood of paperwork to get the NFA program modernized and attached to the NICS. Get the whole process done as fast as a background check to buy regular guns. They would collect a huge increase in revenue and get to show the politicians that they have done more background checks than ever before. Win win. Someone may have already told you but you are wrong. OG Sig braces and shockwaves are even depicted in their "guideline" material. Even a buffer tube on an AR pistol makes it non compliant. |
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Quoted: You think some plastic SBA3 braces no longer being sold is going to bankrupt PSA? I didn't say PSA, I said some companies. Having money tied up in inventory that is about to be made illegal or worthless to buyers will necessarily result in large financial losses. Think about how many braces PSA has in inventory and how many braced guns they make. Nobody's going to want to buy braces from them, and they'll have to spend additional time and money converting all of their braced inventory into legally compliant guns. They could register and sell them all as SBRs, but frankly I just don't think there's a big enough market for that. |
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Quoted: I noticed an interesting discrepancy in the FAQ. They say one option is to permanently remove the brace or modify it so it can't be installed again. This way if it was still in your possession along with the pistol, they couldn't claim constructive possession. They later address this saying that possession of pistols and unmodified braces might be constructive possession if they decide to charge you. Another option they give you is to replace the barrel with a 16" or longer barrel. But here's the interesting bit... They don't tell you that you have to destroy or modify the short barrel after removing it, and they don't mention possession of the short barrel along with a rifle in their bit about constructive posession. I'm sure that just an oversight or possibly an intentional omission to give another way to get you if you went the 16" barrel route instead of the brace removal route. They also don't tell you that the buffer tube still might qualify the firearm as an SBR. |
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Quoted: One question on timing: If I were to walk into a gun store tomorrow and they had a Scorpion, Bren or AR pistol laying there. I could still buy it and and go ahead and stamp it under the amnesty? Yes if it has a pistol brace. Once the rule is published in the Federal Registry, the FFL will not be able to sell a pistol with a brace. AND Yes if it is just a pistol without a brace. Remember people this rule only applies to pistols with braces. And for some of you with braces on things ATF never approved then you already know the answer. |
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Quoted: The bright side of locking up the tax stamp process for 5-10yrs? With let’s say (low side) 100,000 applications in 120 days? And I was going to push forward on a 30 cal can. Going to wait and see how it shakes out now. If people start complying, the tax stamp process will go over 24 months.
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Quoted: Quoted: If they wouldn’t, do you really think they should admit to as much on a public forum that’s also regularly monitored by the feds? I don’t. I think that’d be pretty moronic. Almost as moronic as expecting them to do so. LOL. You need to go look at replies to @ATFHQ Link to the Tweets That’s all very hilarious. |
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Quoted: Those are awesome. Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: If they wouldn’t, do you really think they should admit to as much on a public forum that’s also regularly monitored by the feds? I don’t. I think that’d be pretty moronic. Almost as moronic as expecting them to do so. LOL. You need to go look at replies to @ATFHQ Link to the Tweets Those are awesome. Damn. The ATF Twitter feed is getting destroyed. 
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Quoted: Everyone's a gangsta until sentencing. Just like the j6 guys "Oh I was badly influenced by bad influencers on the internet. Please don't give me prison time" Hey if you want to do time over this, God bless you for being a hard ass. Your loved ones will cry and you'll be quickly forgotten here (remember the poor cop here who got J6ed?). I'm not interested in losing out on 3-5 years of my little kid's lives. I never paid much attention to AR pistols and SBRs. I've shot 14.5 ARs plenty and never saw much appeal. Last week figuring this was coming I bought this $ 500 wonder https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/14563/888F8286-97D9-44A8-B221-643D80366D38-2671297.jpg I haven't had a chance to shoot it but it sure is a sweet looking little lead thrower. Is it worth not putting my kids to bed, taking them to tennis practice, watching them sing in the Christmas Choir show for a half a decade? And let's be honest, you tough talkers aren't going to show up with a helicopter, M4s and a rope ladder when I'm in the prison rec yard. Quoted: Quoted: The 'free' tax stamp should come with a free voucher to get that tattooed on the recipients forehead. Hey if you want to do time over this, God bless you for being a hard ass. Your loved ones will cry and you'll be quickly forgotten here (remember the poor cop here who got J6ed?). I'm not interested in losing out on 3-5 years of my little kid's lives. I never paid much attention to AR pistols and SBRs. I've shot 14.5 ARs plenty and never saw much appeal. Last week figuring this was coming I bought this $ 500 wonder https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/14563/888F8286-97D9-44A8-B221-643D80366D38-2671297.jpg I haven't had a chance to shoot it but it sure is a sweet looking little lead thrower. Is it worth not putting my kids to bed, taking them to tennis practice, watching them sing in the Christmas Choir show for a half a decade? And let's be honest, you tough talkers aren't going to show up with a helicopter, M4s and a rope ladder when I'm in the prison rec yard. If it can be used as a brace you’re good to go. |
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And now for my question. What is the shortest AR 5.56 pistol buffer tube available that will allow the function of the AR 5.56 pistol with no excess length? Because if it's any longer then needed for function it might be considered a component that allows shouldering the pistol 
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Quoted: And now for my question. What is the shortest AR 5.56 pistol buffer tube available that will allow the function of the AR 5.56 pistol with no excess length? Because if it's any longer then needed for function it might be considered a component that allows shouldering the pistol You are literally hallucinating right now. Put down the fear porn. This is literally like when everyone went full schizophrenic over shouldering braces. You aren’t helping. You can’t use a brace or a specialized buffer tube to artificially increase the length of pull to better facilitate its use as stock. That’s all. Basically if you have a 13” length of pull and the buffer tube is lengthened for no other purpose than to increase length of pull then it is a stock. It’s a fore arm brace, not a bicep brace. LOL If you have a pistol with increased length of pull and a magnified scope normally used on a rifle then you’re probably using the brace ONLY as a stock. The easy way to get around that is to put an offset red dot that can be used in addition to the magnified optic. You have to be able to use the gun as intended, at arms length while attached to your arm. What they’re saying is that if it looks like a duck it’s a duck. |
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Quoted: Those are awesome. Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: If they wouldn’t, do you really think they should admit to as much on a public forum that’s also regularly monitored by the feds? I don’t. I think that’d be pretty moronic. Almost as moronic as expecting them to do so. LOL. You need to go look at replies to @ATFHQ Link to the Tweets Those are awesome. Old Twiter would never have allowed those comments. The feds that used to control Twiter must be pissed that the American people are shit posting on their thread. Love it....carry on! |
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Quoted: They also don't tell you that the buffer tube still might qualify the firearm as an SBR. They do tell you that removing the brace and making it so it can't be re-attached makes it a pistol. They don't tell you to remove the buffer tube as well, just the brace. If removing the brace alone makes it a pistol, then presumably a buffer tube is not a brace. |
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Quoted: I can't help but wonder what the state of the world would be today if people throughout history, who stood up for what they believed in, had instead decided that they had too much to lose and chose the path of compliance instead. What's one more little rule, right?.. This.... Absolutely sickening. Keep hiding behind your families cowards. That's how the revolution began as well, until you couldn't hide anymore. |
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Quoted: Everyone's a gangsta until sentencing. Just like the j6 guys "Oh I was badly influenced by bad influencers on the internet. Please don't give me prison time" Hey if you want to do time over this, God bless you for being a hard ass. Your loved ones will cry and you'll be quickly forgotten here (remember the poor cop here who got J6ed?). I'm not interested in losing out on 3-5 years of my little kid's lives. I never paid much attention to AR pistols and SBRs. I've shot 14.5 ARs plenty and never saw much appeal. Last week figuring this was coming I bought this $ 500 wonder https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/14563/888F8286-97D9-44A8-B221-643D80366D38-2671297.jpg I haven't had a chance to shoot it but it sure is a sweet looking little lead thrower. Is it worth not putting my kids to bed, taking them to tennis practice, watching them sing in the Christmas Choir show for a half a decade? And let's be honest, you tough talkers aren't going to show up with a helicopter, M4s and a rope ladder when I'm in the prison rec yard. So this isn't your line in the sand, understandable. You also feel as if you stood on this hill, you would die alone with no support, also very understandable. What can we do to fix those feelings? that is what we should be doing. Laws will not save us, but they will damn us, and our loved ones to great suffering. What I've seen in history dictates when laws become too onerous, too oppressive, or too crushing of weight to live life people have to stand tall, and all it takes is one. What can we do so that its more likely a person to stand and say "No". |
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Let the law suits begin! https://gatdaily.com/breaking-atf-publishes-brace-rule-final-text-atf2021r-08f/ |
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Quoted: Everyone's a gangsta until sentencing. Just like the j6 guys "Oh I was badly influenced by bad influencers on the internet. Please don't give me prison time" Hey if you want to do time over this, God bless you for being a hard ass. Your loved ones will cry and you'll be quickly forgotten here (remember the poor cop here who got J6ed?). I'm not interested in losing out on 3-5 years of my little kid's lives. I never paid much attention to AR pistols and SBRs. I've shot 14.5 ARs plenty and never saw much appeal. Last week figuring this was coming I bought this $ 500 wonder https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/14563/888F8286-97D9-44A8-B221-643D80366D38-2671297.jpg I haven't had a chance to shoot it but it sure is a sweet looking little lead thrower. Is it worth not putting my kids to bed, taking them to tennis practice, watching them sing in the Christmas Choir show for a half a decade? And let's be honest, you tough talkers aren't going to show up with a helicopter, M4s and a rope ladder when I'm in the prison rec yard. 
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