[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Is this for real? $800 Luger repro (Page 3 of 3)
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Quoted: Having to figure out everything that a companies machinists sabotaged after you fired them all is different than recreating an old gun with new machinery. Quoted: Quoted: For an illustration of conversion of hand fitted firearms to modern CNC techniques, remember the Remlins right after Remington took over Marlin? Took Remington a bit to get those designs sorted to modern manufacturing techniques. Having to figure out everything that a companies machinists sabotaged after you fired them all is different than recreating an old gun with new machinery. Is that what's taking Ruger so long, lol? |
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Quoted: Explain it then. How would you take a 1944 print & translate it to a working gun made of CNC parts? How did Remington do it on Marlin's guns, screw it up & have to fix it? Tolerances aren’t taken from part prints, they are determined by the assembly drawings and how the designer intended parts to mate, assemble, interface, or move relative to one another. For example a press fit dowel will be .0003-.0005 small on the hole, and the dowels are .002-.003 oversized. This way you end up with an interference fit where the dowels are “stuck” because the are too big to fit in a hole that is too small. This is a function of Tolerance Stacking. The hole and the dowel will have the ranges listed above that guarantee that the dowel will not slide into the hole with finger pressure, but need to be tapped in with a soft hammer and not beaten in with brute force. Anything smaller or larger than the numbers shown above will not give the fit the engineer wanted The same is true for things like trigger sear engagement, slide rail clearances etc. the designer will give distances (size tolerances) like my dowel fit example where the parts will move freely against one another and even have a little room for dirt, carbon etc, but not be so sloppy that a trigger sear isn’t so loose that it is dangerous or a slide that isn’t accurate because it flops around and lacks repeatable mechanical characteristics at battery. In the past, they lacked the ability to make things repeatable to where you could put them together and have them work. This is especially so when you are assembling parts that you don’t make. Between WW1 and WW2, the US government along with industry championed Geometric Dimensioning and Tolerancing and turned it into standards that allowed us to move forward as an economy. We were producing machines that could spit out repeatable parts at that point and with quality control monitoring the setup and production of parts from say.. a screw machine that makes firing pins… they could determine that the parts would be good enough to function without hand fitting before they left the production station making them. |
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Quoted: How did Remington do it on Marlin's guns, screw it up & have to fix it? Honestly, they probably didn’t put the effort in. You would have to completely re-engineer the guns to work in a modern context and the parts from them would not be interchangeable with the old guns. You can make a perfect part that is 100% to print and not have it fit the assembly (a gun in this case) because the rest of the gun not toleranced to it….. which is why you have to re-engineer the gun so you control ALL tolerances. Old world gun manufacturing sucks ass no matter how much value we think hand fitting parts matters you only have to look at the custom 1911 crowd for proof of this as the slide clearances needed to make an accurate gun tend to make them malfunction as the guns get dirty. Working clearances are a thing, and that’s why a beat up USGI 1911 will run like a raped ape compared to a USPSA unlimited gun. |
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Quoted: The Lugers aren't on the website anymore? I really wanted to see this, too. |
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Quoted: Is this one? At knob creek range. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/74310/20221001_150232_jpg-2547275.JPG https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stoeger_Luger |