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That was my first concern but you addressed it... Quoted:
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and I keep my 220v breakers off. Quoted:
All those damn plugs are a point of heat and voltage drop. |
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How loud is a propane-powered generator compared to a gasoline powered generator? I just like the option because propane last longer, easy to store, I don't have to worry about carbs gumming up, and I have two option for fuel instead of one. |
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I've got 400A service with the two main breakers by the meter box and two panels (no mains) in the garage. Transfer switch for me I guess.  I have a 400A service and one 200A 42 space panel in the garage and one 200A disco next to it that feeds a 42 space panel in the closet in the house. Not really any way to have an interlock installed on my either. So its rigged and have to take multiple steps to backfeed it. So cue the "guy holding his finger up with "this is the only safety I need" . jpg |
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If I use the bridged adapter the op has how many volts would my multimeter show if I measure ground to one, then ground to the other? Measured across the hots? |
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If I use the bridged adapter the op has how many volts would my multimeter show if I measure ground to one, then ground to the other? Measured across the hots? See: https://www.ar15.com/forums/t_10_17/690289_SAFELY-power-both-legs-with-a-120V-generator-.html |
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Ok, because I have the same 'two hot's bridged' adapter as the op and here's what I get at:
the TT30R off the genny: G-H1: 60.8 V G-H2: 61.6 V H1-H2: 125 V Plug in the adapter: G to any other lead: 60.x V X-W: 125 V Y-W: 125 V X-Y: 0.xx V Now when I connect the L14-30 extension cable I get some odd numbers. 80V with these two, 40V with those two. What sort of combinations should I get with the multimeter at the L14-30 receptacle? I wired the receptacle myself. Do I have to switch the X and Y in the receptacle? |
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Now when I connect the L14-30 extension cable I get some odd numbers. 80V with these two, 40V with those two. What sort of combinations should I get with the multimeter at the L14-30 receptacle? Are you connecting a 120V generator directly to a 240V circuit? I'm a little unclear on what your setup is, I don't have plug part numbers memorized. Unless you're putting in a ground rod with your generator, the ground on the generator doesn't do anything. Non-inverter types generally have the ground and neutral bonded together. Inverters it seems don't typically do that so they are just making 120V between hot and neutral, and the neutral needs to be grounded somewhere. This appears to be a problem with some transfer switch setups where they switch the neutral. |
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This sounds like a floating neutral. Is the neutral connected and bonded to ground at the box? Are they connected in your generator? Are you connecting a 120V generator directly to a 240V circuit? I'm a little unclear on what your setup is, I don't have plug part numbers memorized. Why would I see different numbers at the end of the adapter and at the end of the extension? (8ga four solid wire extension, about 10ft) Yes, I'm setting up my panel to accept 4-prong L14-30 125/240 so I can essentially use any size generator. I do have a caveman genny 5500/6875 with 4-prong L14-20. Since it is still too small to run the central AC, and too loud to tolerate, and too gas thirsty to feed lol, I'm transitioning to a Champion 3100 which has the 3-prong TT30 125V only output and I want to still power both sides of the panel with 120. |
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My interlock. It was very inexpensive at Ace Hardware. http://pic100.picturetrail.com/VOL488/1126801/24697153/413563651.jpg |
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Are you testing this system in operation, or just looking at the voltages on disconnected cords? If it's not connected to the panel so that your neutral is connected and grounded you will not see the same distribution of voltages. |
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Is there any chance I need to swap hots? If they're both the 'same' hot ... |
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Those propane tanks sit almost perfectly in a milk crate. I use them to go swap/fill tanks so they don't roll around in the bed. Maybe you can get another and keep a tank sitting on top of your cord crate. Quoted:
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This was inspired by this thread: https://www.ar15.com/forums/general/Someone-school-me-on-backfeeding-or-pig-tailing-a-generator-back-into-the-house-/5-2032540/ If you can make it through all the ridiculous pages of purse swinging.... there was some good info in there, and it got me off my butt to do this. Thanks to the contributors there. I have a Champion 3100W Gas/Propane generator that I bought specifically just to have just in case. Power outages are not typical in Dallas, Texas. I have a Square D QO style breaker panel, and wanted to do a safe panel feed. Here is what I bought: $51 - Inlet box 30 amp - http://a.co/dL7xPtE $51 - Interlock for SquareD QO panel - http://a.co/dC0yn0g $38 - Wire for breaker to inlet box - http://a.co/jjbFYoD $22 - 30 amp Breaker for backfeed - http://a.co/aTzE9SK $40 - 50 foot RV extension cord - http://a.co/8eRehRj $45 - RV to L-1430R bridged adapter - http://a.co/0awn1BK ------------------------------------- $247 My generator uses an RV 110v 30 amp plug, so that's the cable I wanted to use, hence that cable and adapter combo. Before: https://s26.postimg.org/defu5eiu1/screenshot_211.jpg The stuff: https://s26.postimg.org/hriz1kgyh/screenshot_212.jpg I needed to move some circuits around to get room for this position and a 220v breaker. Luckily I found out in that thread QO breakers allow two conductors per breaker, so that made life easy for me. https://s26.postimg.org/dyzglu1g9/screenshot_213.jpg Installed the 30amp 220v backfeed breaker: https://s26.postimg.org/bixn7zjdl/screenshot_214.jpg Then wired it up. Using 10/3 wire and pulling to my location for the generator inlet. https://s26.postimg.org/z0zg066s9/screenshot_216.jpg https://s26.postimg.org/b7g6v82xl/screenshot_215.jpg https://s26.postimg.org/mp150f8bd/screenshot_217.jpg https://s26.postimg.org/h3epwd7mh/screenshot_219.jpg https://s26.postimg.org/uj1qltg49/screenshot_218.jpg Next, on the interlock kit, you install a bracket to warn people about this "special breaker" if the panel is open: https://s26.postimg.org/c615b95nd/screenshot_220.jpg Drill some holes using the provided template with the interlock kit: https://s26.postimg.org/as9ify6e1/screenshot_221.jpg Then install the interlock with the provided screws: https://s26.postimg.org/cy3tag9uh/screenshot_222.jpg Hooked up: https://s26.postimg.org/a5alqf9i1/screenshot_223.jpg House is running on gen power, with both sides of the panel hot with 120v, using the bridge in the adapter above. https://s26.postimg.org/57x15b7ix/screenshot_224.jpg I have a milk crate to store the cord and all the generator accessories, so its all ready to go in one place: https://s26.postimg.org/bzng85wih/screenshot_225.jpg Those propane tanks sit almost perfectly in a milk crate. I use them to go swap/fill tanks so they don't roll around in the bed. Maybe you can get another and keep a tank sitting on top of your cord crate. |
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Okay i guess You spent all that money to hook up.a 2k watt genny. You would have been just as good with decent cords Second, with cords, I'd have to run the extension cords from the backyard, into the house (which is not small) and go in three different directions: garage fridge, house fridge, bedroom (window AC unit), and then cords for any lighting or tasks. I'd have to pull out the refrigerators to access them. I'd only have access to power in very specific locations. Now - with this setup, I truly only spent $200 (sans the RV cord which you'd be spending that much on extension cords and splitters anyway)...... $200 is "all that money" to safely have power wherever I want it, in seconds, on demand? Hell, I'd spend the $200 just for fun, and the experience, and education. 
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Are there any low cost devices so I can better understand my amp load on the generator. All it has is an overload light.
I'd like to better understand the surge load when my refrigerators start vs running, same for my window unit, and especially for each circuit I might want to energize in the house. I set my generator to eco throttle, and fired up the first fridge circuit, and it surged a little, but then went back to eco. Same for fridge number two. After that, I just started throwing the 120v circuits on in the house, but they barely made a blip on the genny. Lights, fans, it was almost no load at all from listening to the generator. I'd like to know each circuit and its total possible load with all lights and fans running. I have a Kill-A-Watt meter, but that only helps for individual plugged in items. On that same question, does it hurt a generator to leave eco throttle on? At what point should you just turn eco-throttle off? |
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Okay i guess You spent all that money to hook up.a 2k watt genny. You would have been just as good with decent cords I have a similar setup. My house was set up by the previous owner with a disconnect switch and 50 amp input.I only have a 110 volt 4000 watt propane genset. It doesn't even have a RV outlet. But I did have 20 amp to 30 amp and 30 amp to 50 amp adapters from my RV days. It ran all the 110 circuits, including the built ins and sipped fuel compared to the old 5500 watt gas genset that it replaced. I frequently had two full size refrigerators going at the same time and could use the microwave or Toaster oven when needed. We are getting a 22kw Genrac whole house when we close on some land we are selling but that little propane generator with adapters did a great job for the 4 days we were without AC and was sooo much more convenient than using extension cords through open doors. |
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Are there any low cost devices so I can better understand my amp load on the generator. All it has is an overload light. Mine is mounted next to my main panel. |
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I used to have a hot tub. The power supply is ideally located for a generator inlet. If an inlet is wired to the old lines, would the generator energize both sides of the panel or just the side that the old hot tub breaker is on? 2) Check the size of the circuit vs the amperage of power you want to supply with your genny - i.e. if it was a 30A circuit and you want to supply 50A 3) you'll probably have to rearrange the circuit breakers some so the one for that circuit is near the mains breaker to use an interlock kit 4) if it was a 240v circuit and you have a 240v genny then you can supply 240v. If it was only 120v, or you only have a 120v genny, you'll need to bridge the hots to power all of the 120v circuits (240v circuits won't work and you may need to pull new cable if it doesn't already have enough conductors) |
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Are there any low cost devices so I can better understand my amp load on the generator. All it has is an overload light. Mine is mounted next to my main panel. |
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Strat, is your panel indoors? I had that in my wish list until I noticed that, my setup will be outdoors, I was wondering if it could be hardened some how for protection from the elements. Quoted:
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Are there any low cost devices so I can better understand my amp load on the generator. All it has is an overload light. Mine is mounted next to my main panel. |
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If I was going to use that, I'd just route my wiring from the panel to that box, then back out to the outside connection. Why would you need to put it outside? 
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Strat, is your panel indoors? I had that in my wish list until I noticed that, my setup will be outdoors, I was wondering if it could be hardened some how for protection from the elements. Quoted:
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Are there any low cost devices so I can better understand my amp load on the generator. All it has is an overload light. Mine is mounted next to my main panel. |
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excellent job. ignore the GD retards.
ps: just FYI... Quoted:
Next, on the interlock kit, you install a bracket to warn people about this "special breaker" if the panel is open: that's not the reason for that bracket. the NEC requires it: 408.36(D) Back-Fed Devices. Plug-in-type overcurrent protection devices or plug-in type main lug assemblies that are backfed and used to terminate field-installed ungrounded supply conductors shall be secured in place by an additional fastener that requires other than a pull to release the device from the mounting means on the panel. rationale: Back-fed circuit breakers are often used in main-lugs only (MLO) sub-panels supplied from a main panel. In such installations, the back-fed circuit breaker functions as the main disconnect for the sub-panel. When back-fed circuit breakers are installed for this purpose, the Code requires them to be secured to the sub-panel so that the breaker cannot be intentionally removed from the sub-panel without first removing the clamp or other means used to secure the back-fed device. To remove the back-fed circuit breaker, you have to first remove the clamp or fastener. When conductors are terminated on a back-fed device, the conductors themselves can sometimes exert enough pressure on the unsecured plug-in back-fed device to loosen the connection between the back-fed breaker and the busbars of the sub-panel. When this happens, damaging arcs can occur between the clips on the back-fed breaker and the busbars. The sub-panel can be de-energized if the back-fed circuit breaker becomes completely disconnected. Securing the back-fed device to the sub-panel prevents these conditions. ar-jedi |
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Are there any low cost devices so I can better understand my amp load on the generator. All it has is an overload light. I'd like to better understand the surge load when my refrigerators start vs running, same for my window unit, and especially for each circuit I might want to energize in the house. I set my generator to eco throttle, and fired up the first fridge circuit, and it surged a little, but then went back to eco. Same for fridge number two. After that, I just started throwing the 100v circuits on in the house, but they barely made a blip on the genny. Lights, fans, it was almost no load at all from listening to the generator. I'd like to know each circuit and its total possible load with all lights and fans running. I have a Kill-A-Watt meter, but that only helps for individual plugged in items. On that same question, does it hurt a generator to leave eco throttle on? At what point should you just turn eco-throttle off? Short of that you could use an clamp on ammeter but you'd have to open up the panel. |
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Looks good. I finally broke down and wired mine in a couple of weeks ago. I made my own interlock from a piece of 1/8" Lexan.
ETA: it's actually 7/32" thick. Attached File |
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Looks good. I finally broke down and wired mine in a couple of weeks ago. I made my own interlock from a piece of 1/8" Lexan. https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/247941/20170916_200538-318425.JPG Nice work! |
| I need to do this as well, but with no extra breakers and 4 double breakers already being used, I think that I'm stuck with doing a manual transfer switch. The cost is certainly not appealing, but neither is spending almost $200 on 10 gauge extension cords to do it the low tech way. |
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I need to do this as well, but with no extra breakers and 4 double breakers already being used, I think that I'm stuck with doing a manual transfer switch. The cost is certainly not appealing, but neither is spending almost $200 on 10 gauge extension cords to do it the low tech way. |
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Running a 400 amp service meter so I can't use this but for the average homeowner, you really can't beat this for ease of install, use and automatic transfer back to the grid when it comes online:
http://www.generlink.com |
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If you have any shared neutral circuits in your panel you might be at risk of overloading the neutral, It doesn't look like it from the pictures of your panel but you might want to check just in case.
ETA the total load on a 3 wire 120/240v circuit with a shared neutral will be limited by your breaker size, the load from a phase and b phase will cancel each other out and the neutral will only carry the unbalanced load IE 10 amps on A phase and 12 amps on B phase will have your neutral only carrying 2 amps. If you are using the same phase on both A and B phase then it would be additive on the neutral and it would be carrying 22 amps. If your circuits were carrying 20 amps each you would have 40 amps on the neutral wire. |
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Plasticseng:
That home made interlock kit is not: 1. NEC compliant 2. National Fire Protection Code compliant 3. UL certified 4. ANSI certified Although i very much applaud your effort, i STRONGLY suggest you find the appropriately manufactured interlock kit for your panel, and install it in a fastidious and expeditious manor. No lineman would trust that with his life, and i wouldn't blame them a bit. |
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What brand/model of panel? Main breaker is on the bottom. 14 slots on bottom taken up by 240s (HVAC, Water heater, Range). 4 double breakers on top. The balance (in between) are normal 15amp breakers. House is only 4 years old. I'm no electrician, but it seems to me like they should have used a bigger panel... |
This has been on my to do list for awhile. 
Have an electrician coming tomorrow to take a look. The stove 240 breaker is where the new breaker needs to go, so decided to let an electrician do it. Not sure if I can pigtail inside to box to move the stove breaker.You Look good OP. |