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Quoted: I get that it shouldn't fire with the trigger pulled halfway back and the slide wiggled, but how does this explain all of the "it was just sitting in its holster and went off" claims? Hypothetically I could see it, with a weak return spring (allowing it to be the alleged 1+mm he shows - that is more like 2mm+ to my eyeballs) and the holster not being firm enough to prevent the slide from moving around. Especially if wrestling with a suspect, twisting, moving, etc. |
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Quoted: This is where I am, too. If the trigger is pulled back 1mm, You are pulling the trigger. How is that happening with holstered weapons? If a round is chambered, that’s happening outside the holster. If the trigger return spring is weak, or the burr exists and it hangs up, the trigger will move forward but it will act like it’s already being pulled. Nobody would ever know. Then the gun gets holstered, jostled, looked at wrong, BANG |
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I don't think his 1mm, or less than 1mm, is very scientific. The trigger is pivoting on a fulcrum. He's measuring at arbitrary spots on the trigger. If he measured up closer to the top, the distance with be smaller and if he measured down at the bottom of the trigger, it would be larger. Either way, I think he's on the right track. What I would like to see next is some sort of machine that just sits there and wiggles the slide up and down and side to side all day long. With nothing holding back the trigger, is it able to eventually walk the dinglehopper inside past the doodad so the gun drops the striker? |
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Quoted: Hypothetically I could see it, with a weak return spring (allowing it to be the alleged 1+mm he shows - that is more like 2mm+ to my eyeballs) and the holster not being firm enough to prevent the slide from moving around. Especially if wrestling with a suspect, twisting, moving, etc. Quoted: Quoted: I get that it shouldn't fire with the trigger pulled halfway back and the slide wiggled, but how does this explain all of the "it was just sitting in its holster and went off" claims? Hypothetically I could see it, with a weak return spring (allowing it to be the alleged 1+mm he shows - that is more like 2mm+ to my eyeballs) and the holster not being firm enough to prevent the slide from moving around. Especially if wrestling with a suspect, twisting, moving, etc. Okay, I see what you're getting at. Now the next step would be to wear out (or simulate worn out) a return spring and see what happens. I've got about 5k through my 320. Probably more than most LE and MIL pistols at this point. Time to try some slide wiggling! 
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| Could be the trigger return spring takes a set after a while? If the trigger return spring becomes weakened or falls outside original dimension over time ( through use), lead to poor/partial sear engagement (?). That combined with engagement distance between frame and slide specific safety component contact points becoming even more exacerbated by slide to frame slop. |
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Quoted: Look, I think SIG needs to take action here, but defeating safeties and being surprised when it goes off does not seem like true evidence. And if anyone’s holster depresses the trigger at all allowing it to go off… who’s fault is that? Both? Seriously. If your evidence requires having to manipulate the gun to make this happen … you’re gaming it. I’ll give this a shot with mine for grins. Edit: that trigger is pulled back quite a bit and then the slide is manipulated, but since SIG says it can’t fire without a full trigger press this is bad. I just disagree with having to jury-rig the system to make it happen. I don’t think he defeated any safeties. He used a screw to represent a small trigger pull and wiggled the slide. If you could consistently hold the trigger with your finger and pinch the slide, would you get the same result? Did the screw do anything more than holding the trigger on your own? |
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Quoted: I get that it shouldn't fire with the trigger pulled halfway back and the slide wiggled, but how does this explain all of the "it was just sitting in its holster and went off" claims? I mean, he's literally pulling the trigger. It could simply be the F=ma aspects of carry/jostling the firearm in the normal course of carry. Bump the gun, and the trigger is going to move. Now, stack slide movement probabilities on top of that, et cetera ... and yeah, it seems plausible to me. |
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Quoted: I just did what he did, mine wouldn't do it. Doesnt mean other P320s won't do it. I did the same and mine wouldn’t fire either, but I believe that it does have at least a couple design flaws as well as defective and/or out-of-spec parts in many of them. Mine is clean and I think he said that his is a bit dirty. |
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Quoted: I don’t think he defeated any safeties. He used a screw to represent a small trigger pull and wiggled the slide. If you could consistently hold the trigger with your finger and pinch the slide, would you get the same result? Did the screw do anything more than holding the trigger on your own? I’m sitting here wondering how far I would have to pre-tension the trigger of my 92 before I could find any amount of slide squeezes or strikes that would get the hammer to drop or the firing pin to float far enough forward to set off a primer. I’m guessing the answer is “pull the trigger all the way to the back” |
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Yeah, the fake and exaggerated shocked face when it did exactly what anyone would expect it to do based on the prior half hour of millimeters was cheesy. Dude is a goober. |
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I just tried it on mine and couldn't get it to drop the striker. The trigger pulled on these is very short. It's a fine line between putting a little bit of tension on the trigger and pushing the trigger to the break. They dont have that mile long squishy trigger pull that striker-fired guns are known for. |
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Quoted: maybe it's time to Israeli carry my flux raider in my SUV  Attached File |
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Quoted: I just tried it on mine and couldn't get it to drop the striker. The trigger pulled on these is very short. It's a fine line between putting a little bit of tension on the trigger and pushing the trigger to the break. They dont have that mile long squishy trigger pull that striker-fired guns are known for. Insert a mag. Add upward pressure see what happens. |
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Quoted: I get that it shouldn't fire with the trigger pulled halfway back and the slide wiggled, but how does this explain all of the "it was just sitting in its holster and went off" claims? I mean, he's literally pulling the trigger. Essentially the author's testing suggests this uncommanded discharge result could be replicated without barely pinning the trigger to the wall with a wood screw as shown here, but due to any number of spec issues (brand new or worn through use) with the plastic frame, any number of stacking parts tolerances interface inside the FCU, the geometry of the FCU chassis itself, or perhaps general uncleanliness of the internal FCU mechanism like oily lint or perhaps even a buildup of brass cartridge flakes. Or even a teeny smidge of all of these together. In short, for whatever reason(s) that a SIG P320 may find itself out of spec under a millimeter throughout the fire control system it could discharge just by bumping the slide. Could potentially happen to a brand new P320 or could take time to develop through wear. When all is said and done I think it might end up being simply that SIG's integrated FCU chassis was an initially cool idea but ultimately lousy delivery on the fabrication of at least some manufactured P320 pistols. Totally robust and safe designed in an engineer's CAD program but ultimately didn't measure up in the genuine steel and plastic manufactured product. Disclaimer: I have no expertise in this issue, have never tested a thing in regards to a P320, and don't recall ever having even held one in my hands. I'm just some guy commenting on the evident outcome of someone else's testing. |
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Quoted: I don’t think he defeated any safeties. He used a screw to represent a small trigger pull and wiggled the slide. If you could consistently hold the trigger with your finger and pinch the slide, would you get the same result? Did the screw do anything more than holding the trigger on your own? Quoted: Quoted: Look, I think SIG needs to take action here, but defeating safeties and being surprised when it goes off does not seem like true evidence. And if anyone’s holster depresses the trigger at all allowing it to go off… who’s fault is that? Both? Seriously. If your evidence requires having to manipulate the gun to make this happen … you’re gaming it. I’ll give this a shot with mine for grins. Edit: that trigger is pulled back quite a bit and then the slide is manipulated, but since SIG says it can’t fire without a full trigger press this is bad. I just disagree with having to jury-rig the system to make it happen. I don’t think he defeated any safeties. He used a screw to represent a small trigger pull and wiggled the slide. If you could consistently hold the trigger with your finger and pinch the slide, would you get the same result? Did the screw do anything more than holding the trigger on your own? I need you to understand what you are saying here: he’s pulling the trigger, which literally defeats at least one safety. A safety that clearly doesn’t allow it to fire if it isn’t defeated. If you are pulling the trigger, how are you surprised if it discharges. FYI I’m not putting a screw in my trigger. I’ll pull it partially back and start monkeying with the slide. I may not love my 320 but I don’t hate it either.
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Quoted: I just tried it on mine and couldn't get it to drop the striker. The trigger pulled on these is very short. It's a fine line between putting a little bit of tension on the trigger and pushing the trigger to the break. They dont have that mile long squishy trigger pull that striker-fired guns are known for. His was a 45 vs my 9mm, maybe there is a difference? Still in his test the trigger is moved, |
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Quoted: Insert a mag. Add upward pressure see what happens. Quoted: Quoted: I just tried it on mine and couldn't get it to drop the striker. The trigger pulled on these is very short. It's a fine line between putting a little bit of tension on the trigger and pushing the trigger to the break. They dont have that mile long squishy trigger pull that striker-fired guns are known for. Insert a mag. Add upward pressure see what happens. I had a mag full of SGDs in it on an empty chamber. I might dick with it a little bit later and try to set up something more repeatable than a screw. |
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Quoted: If the cost of lawsuits and settlements is cheaper than a recall.... Quoted: Quoted: Why haven't P320's been recalled? If the cost of lawsuits and settlements is cheaper than a recall.... "A times B, times C, gives you X. If X is less than the cost of a recall, we don't do one." |
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Quoted: How do we know the YouTuber isn’t making videos for clicks? How can the gun be manipulated to “fire uncommanded” as some are calling it? Quoted: Quoted: I just did what he did, mine wouldn't do it. Doesnt mean other P320s won't do it. How do we know the YouTuber isn’t making videos for clicks? How can the gun be manipulated to “fire uncommanded” as some are calling it? Clearly he is, and it’s working. If the guy didn’t have to pull the trigger appreciably back to make it happen it would move my needle. Is it good? No. Is it damning evidence? No, he has to pull the trigger back. |
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Quoted: I set my trigger back to what seemed farther than in his video. His was a 45 vs my 9mm, maybe there is a difference? Quoted: Quoted: I just tried it on mine and couldn't get it to drop the striker. The trigger pulled on these is very short. It's a fine line between putting a little bit of tension on the trigger and pushing the trigger to the break. They dont have that mile long squishy trigger pull that striker-fired guns are known for. His was a 45 vs my 9mm, maybe there is a difference? Could be. Mine's a 9mm too. I set mine as far as I could without hitting the break. I kept hitting the break trying to set it because I forgot how short of a pull these things have. Sure, they might kill you but damn if they don't have a nice trigger.
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Florida lawmaker urges law enforcement agencies to suspend use of SIG Sauer P320 handgun, citing safety issues A Florida lawmaker is urging police agencies to suspend the use of the SIG Sauer P320 handgun, citing safety concerns. The pistol has allegedly discharged while holstered and without a trigger pull, injuring dozens of people. Tampa Police are reviewing alternative firearms; other departments, including Plant City Police, are not planning changes. Manufacturer SIG Sauer maintains the P320 meets all safety standards and cannot fire without a trigger pull. TAMPA, Fla. - A Florida legislator is asking law enforcement agencies to stop using a widely-issued handgun after a series of unintentional discharges raised alarms about safety. What we know: State Representative Danny Alvarez, R-Hillsborough County, is calling on agencies across the state to suspend the use of the SIG Sauer P320. According to Alvarez, the handgun is approved for use in at least nine departments, including Tampa and Plant City's police departments. The request follows an investigation, co-authored by The Washington Post, that linked the P320 to more than 100 incidents in which the gun reportedly discharged while holstered, resulting in at least 80 injuries since 2016. "At least until we can figure out if we’ve got a permanent solution that makes that weapon reliable and confident," Alvarez said, "I want to see people stop using the SIG P320." The backstory: Among those injured was retired Tampa police officer Bob Northrop, who said the weapon fired without warning while he adjusted his jacket in 2020. "I was scared to death," Northrop told FOX 13 on Friday. "I thought somebody at first might be shooting at me, but I stood there for a second and realized that there was something wrong." The bullet shattered his ankle. What they're saying: Northrop and others believe the gun poses a threat not just to law enforcement, but to the people they’re sworn to protect. "Not only do people’s lives get put at risk, the officer’s life, anybody that they’re around, in schools, it’s children," he said. "Is it worth keeping and finding out later when we have a cop get killed or a citizen that they're trying to protect?" Alvarez added. This week, the U.S. Air Force paused use of its version of the P320 following the death of an airman in Wyoming. The other side: FOX 13 reached out to more than a dozen agencies in the Tampa Bay area. Of those who responded, only TPD and Planty City police currently use this model firearm. While Tampa Police Chief Lee Bercaw said the department is now evaluating alternatives, Plant City PD said there are no current plans to suspend or discontinue the use of the weapon. In a statement to FOX 13, Bercaw wrote, in part, "the mere suggestion that there may be safety concerns regarding a department-issued weapon becomes a priority for our agency." SIG Sauer did not immediately respond to a request for comment, but on its website, the company wrote: "The P320 meets and exceeds all industry safety standards" and "The P320 CANNOT, under any circumstances, discharge without a trigger pull. This is verified through extensive testing by SIG SAUER, the U.S. Military, elite law enforcement agencies, and independent laboratories." What we don't know: It’s unclear whether any departments plan to formally suspend the P320 pending investigation, or whether SIG Sauer will issue new guidance or updates. The Source: Information for this story came from interviews with retired officer Bob Northrop and State Rep. Danny Alvarez, along with a statement from Tampa Police Chief Lee Bercaw and details from a joint investigation by The Washington Post and The Trace, a publication that focuses on gun-related news. https://www.fox13news.com/news/florida-lawmaker-urges-law-enforcement-agencies-suspend-use-sig-sauer-p320-handgun-citing-safety-issues =========================== |
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Quoted: The takeaway from this video is not necessarily or especially that the trigger face has any rearward travel on it, but that if there is >1mm stacking tolerance that's out of spec in the interface between the integrated Fire Control Unit assembly and the slide it will bypass and defeat the striker safety and cause discharge if the slide is bumped vertically or laterally. Essentially the author's testing suggests this uncommanded discharge result could be replicated without barely pinning the trigger to the wall with a wood screw as shown here, but due to any number of spec issues (brand new or worn through use) with the plastic frame, any number of stacking parts tolerances interface inside the FCU, the geometry of the FCU chassis itself, or perhaps general uncleanliness of the internal FCU mechanism like oily lint or perhaps even a buildup of brass cartridge flakes. Or even a teeny smidge of all of these together. In short, for whatever reason(s) that a SIG P320 may find itself out of spec under a millimeter throughout the fire control system it could discharge just by bumping the slide. Could potentially happen to a brand new P320 or could take time to develop through wear. When all is said and done I think it might end up being simply that SIG's integrated FCU chassis was an initially cool idea but ultimately lousy delivery on the fabrication of at least some manufactured P320 pistols. Totally robust and safe designed in an engineer's CAD program but ultimately didn't measure up in the genuine steel and plastic manufactured product. Disclaimer: I have no expertise in this issue, have never tested a thing in regards to a P320, and don't recall ever having even held one in my hands. I'm just some guy commenting on the evident outcome of someone else's testing. Quoted: Quoted: I get that it shouldn't fire with the trigger pulled halfway back and the slide wiggled, but how does this explain all of the "it was just sitting in its holster and went off" claims? I mean, he's literally pulling the trigger. Essentially the author's testing suggests this uncommanded discharge result could be replicated without barely pinning the trigger to the wall with a wood screw as shown here, but due to any number of spec issues (brand new or worn through use) with the plastic frame, any number of stacking parts tolerances interface inside the FCU, the geometry of the FCU chassis itself, or perhaps general uncleanliness of the internal FCU mechanism like oily lint or perhaps even a buildup of brass cartridge flakes. Or even a teeny smidge of all of these together. In short, for whatever reason(s) that a SIG P320 may find itself out of spec under a millimeter throughout the fire control system it could discharge just by bumping the slide. Could potentially happen to a brand new P320 or could take time to develop through wear. When all is said and done I think it might end up being simply that SIG's integrated FCU chassis was an initially cool idea but ultimately lousy delivery on the fabrication of at least some manufactured P320 pistols. Totally robust and safe designed in an engineer's CAD program but ultimately didn't measure up in the genuine steel and plastic manufactured product. Disclaimer: I have no expertise in this issue, have never tested a thing in regards to a P320, and don't recall ever having even held one in my hands. I'm just some guy commenting on the evident outcome of someone else's testing. That could be. Like I said, these have a pretty short trigger so there isn't a ton of room for error. |
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Quoted: Why haven't P320's been recalled? Because in order to issue a recall, Sig would first have to admit the product is flawed... which obviously they're not doing. Hence the original voluntary recall. "There is no problem with the 320 but if you want we'll invest millions into changing out parts anyway because we're that solid of a company. If you want us to fix you non-problemed gun send it in and we'll make the non-problem even more non-problem because there obviously isn't a problem." 
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He is annoying, and I think I’ll need professional therapy if I hear him say “one millimeter” one more time, but I think he is on to something. I wonder if slowly hand cycling a round into the chamber with a weak trigger spring/dirty gun/poorly lubricated gun/over molded grip module may contribute to the trigger potentially not going all the way forward when chambering a round. For me, unless I’m at the range with range ammo, I don’t sling shot or use the slide stop to load my handguns before carrying them. I hand cycle the side and then make sure the slide is in battery. It may be wrong, or it might be right, but it’s how I’ve done it over a couple of decades of carrying professionally. I can’t be alone with that. Even if someone argues with me that I’ve been doing it wrong, a handgun shouldn’t be going off over something like that. |
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Quoted: Why haven't P320's been recalled?  Fight club - Recall formula |
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It seems like every three days, we get "proof" from OP as to what's happening in a different fashion from a different guntoober. Yes, I own several P320s. Am I carrying them now? No. Am I interested in what is causing this? Yes. But it could be several things, from an actual safety issue to retarded guntoobers doing retarded guntoober things. The S:N ratio in these threads is hot garbage, unfortunately. |