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Quoted:
I'll see about bringing an extra 10 rounds to the match this Saturday. My plan is to start from Sitting aimed at the target, and have a volunteer RO/cameraman call "Shooter ready? Standby... Targets!", and begin fire. That legit? Glad you made it!! Yeah, that's OK. Just get it all over with by 20 seconds. I had to watch a kitchen timer as I was alone, so I lost a couple seconds getting back into position. Other guys will have the advantage of a shot timer where the first shot starts the clock. Your method is fine. |
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Quoted:
Went today and shot the challenge , screwed up and didn't get a picture of a clean backer .  Will try again next week after Deer shotgun weekend that starts tomorrow . I got excited to try out my new CMMG .22 conversion .  Get out there and put the venison in the freezer, then come back and post results. I hope for good weather tomorrow or I'll have to shoot it in the muck. LOL. FUDDS RULE!! 
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Magnified Optics:
1] 12/04/2019/Geisselle LE Super Duty/16"/5.56/Burris XTR II 1-5/ACT trigger/Federal 62 gr M855/Sitting/ 130 I should say I've been off for most of two weeks and drank several too many Mexican beers last night... Taped up the old targets on the backer for OP, and added some targets-- Attached File 100 yards at PRG Attached File The rifle I shot today-- Attached File 130 Attached File I think my circle is actually just a little less than 3" Attached File |
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Quoted:
Magnified Optics: 1] 12/04/2019/Geisselle LE Super Duty/16"/5.56/Burris XTR II 1-5/ACT trigger/Federal 62 gr M855/Sitting/ 130 I should say I've been off for most of two weeks and drank several too many Mexican beers last night... Taped up the old targets on the backer for OP, and added some targets-- https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/64501/IMG_3819_JPG-1184073.JPG 100 yards at PRG https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/64501/IMG_3822_JPG-1184079.JPG The rifle I shot today-- https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/64501/IMG_3826_JPG-1184080.JPG 130 https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/64501/IMG_3829_JPG-1184082.JPG I think my circle is actually just a little less than 3" https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/64501/IMG_3832_JPG-1184083.JPG Looks like you are zero'd at about 200m with a couple high flyers. Good shooting! Give some more details on your shooting iron if you care to. THANKS for posting! |
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Quoted: Excellent!! Looks like you are zero'd at about 200m with a couple high flyers. Good shooting! Give some more details on your shooting iron if you care to. THANKS for posting! I'm not a bench shooter at all, but normally if I was going to shoot at a 3MOA target, I'd go prone or find some support, so this was a good challenge. If I am shooting from sitting, its usually at steel and the "clang" is more forgiving than paper (paper tells the whole story). I'm also fatter this year than normal for me and a gut does not help the sitting position.
The rifle is a Geissele LE Super Duty. There are a couple of threads going right now about them. The rifle is meant to be a patrol rifle, the ACT is an excellent trigger for that purpose but trying to get on the 3 MOA target with a 5lb trigger was not ideal for that situation. The Burris XTR II 1-5 is a really nice scope and worked great for this kind of practical shooting. Before I fired your challenge, to check my zero, I shot 10 rounds of Federal M855 from the prone, with a bipod and a heal bag, and printed a group right below 2", which is about as good as you could expect from that ammo. Didn't leave much room for error though!  However, I didn't want to shoot match ammo when I knew I wasn't going to print a tight group anyway.
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Quoted:
Nah, its got a dead nuts 100 yard zero. I just couldn't get a comfortable natural point of aim this morning, I was fighting to get the aiming point on that circle for every shot. I'm not a bench shooter at all, but normally if I was going to shoot at a 3MOA target, I'd go prone or find some support, so this was a good challenge. If I am shooting from sitting, its usually at steel and the "clang" is more forgiving than paper (paper tells the whole story). I'm also fatter this year than normal for me and a gut does not help the sitting position.
The rifle is a Geissele LE Super Duty. There are a couple of threads going right now about them. The rifle is meant to be a patrol rifle, the ACT is an excellent trigger for that purpose but trying to get on the 3 MOA target with a 5lb trigger was not ideal for that situation. The Burris XTR II 1-5 is a really nice scope and worked great for this kind of practical shooting. I shot 10 rounds of Federal M855 from the prone, with a bipod and a heal bag, and printed a group right below 2", which is about as good as you could expect from that ammo. Didn't leave much room for error though! However, I didn't want to shoot match ammo when I knew I wasn't going to print a tight group anyway.Quoted:
Quoted: Excellent!! Looks like you are zero'd at about 200m with a couple high flyers. Good shooting! Give some more details on your shooting iron if you care to. THANKS for posting! I'm not a bench shooter at all, but normally if I was going to shoot at a 3MOA target, I'd go prone or find some support, so this was a good challenge. If I am shooting from sitting, its usually at steel and the "clang" is more forgiving than paper (paper tells the whole story). I'm also fatter this year than normal for me and a gut does not help the sitting position.
The rifle is a Geissele LE Super Duty. There are a couple of threads going right now about them. The rifle is meant to be a patrol rifle, the ACT is an excellent trigger for that purpose but trying to get on the 3 MOA target with a 5lb trigger was not ideal for that situation. The Burris XTR II 1-5 is a really nice scope and worked great for this kind of practical shooting. I shot 10 rounds of Federal M855 from the prone, with a bipod and a heal bag, and printed a group right below 2", which is about as good as you could expect from that ammo. Didn't leave much room for error though! However, I didn't want to shoot match ammo when I knew I wasn't going to print a tight group anyway."The Burris XTR II 1-5 is a really nice scope and worked great for this kind of practical situation". Will keep that in mind. I have a couple OLD Fullfield {American-made} 1.75-5 Burris's and like them very much. We learned over on the 3 MOA/SHTF Challenge that sub-MOA bench group accuracy didn't necessarily turn in the best groups from field positions. I really want to try some. Have a partial case of Federal XM855 I might send downrange. Plan to get out tomorrow. Might us some of it then. We'll see. |
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With the needed three reloads you'd be hustling to keep it under 20 seconds. I bet it can be done though. Quoted:
Quoted:
Might be fun with one of my 1903 A3 rifles! Feel free to start your own, tho, and here you go for pointers...  https://bulletin.accurateshooter.com/2019/06/norway-mad-minute-shockingly-fast-bolt-action-rifle-shooting/ "Børklop’s rate of fire, 16 rounds in 25 seconds..." It would be tough to get a '03 going like a Sauer, and one would need a very well fitted, slick stripper clip to do it. https://bulletin.accurateshooter.com/2012/04/scandinavian-bolt-rifle-speed-shooting-stangskyting/ I almost made this a 8-shot Challenge to allow Garands but decided to just make this a modern semi instead. |
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Quoted: 10 shots. You'd need one reload. Feel free to start your own, tho, and here you go for pointers... https://bulletin.accurateshooter.com/2019/06/norway-mad-minute-shockingly-fast-bolt-action-rifle-shooting/ "Børklop’s rate of fire, 16 rounds in 25 seconds..." It would be tough to get a '03 going like a Sauer, and one would need a very well fitted, slick stripper clip to do it. https://bulletin.accurateshooter.com/2012/04/scandinavian-bolt-rifle-speed-shooting-stangskyting/ I almost made this a 8-shot Challenge to allow Garands but decided to just make this a modern semi instead. |
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Quoted:
I actually tried it with the Garand for funsies but I'm pretty slow on my Garand reloads Quoted:
Quoted: 10 shots. You'd need one reload. Feel free to start your own, tho, and here you go for pointers... https://bulletin.accurateshooter.com/2019/06/norway-mad-minute-shockingly-fast-bolt-action-rifle-shooting/ "Børklop’s rate of fire, 16 rounds in 25 seconds..." It would be tough to get a '03 going like a Sauer, and one would need a very well fitted, slick stripper clip to do it. https://bulletin.accurateshooter.com/2012/04/scandinavian-bolt-rifle-speed-shooting-stangskyting/ I almost made this a 8-shot Challenge to allow Garands but decided to just make this a modern semi instead. Anyway, you'll get serious Honorable Mention if you can get all 10-shots off in 20 seconds regardless of where they land on the target!! 
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I did a hell of a lot better shooting this than I did on an Appleseed target I tried a couple weeks ago using the same rifle and Tula 75gr ammo. Today I used the same rifle, Aero Betsy lower, Unknown manufacturer A2 upper with a Palmetto 1/7 twist barrel. Today I used Winchester USA Ready 62gr Open Tip ammo I got from TargetSportsUSA. I shot the group from sitting with a sling. Got the last shot off with 2 seconds to spare and and pretty sure it was the one I pulled low. Conditions were 35 degrees, overcast with a mix of very light misting rain / snow. It was almost more like fog settling, which it may well have been as the fog let up as I was shooting. I zeroed and shot a few groups on a different target, then shot two of the challenge targets, with this one being my best one. If I understood the scoring right I shot a 140? I will give it another go next time out and see if I can do better.
12/05/19 - Aero Lower and LPK / 20” PSA 1/7 barrel - A2 open sights - Winchester USA Ready 62gr OT - sitting / sling - 140 Attached File Attached File Attached File Overlooking the valley where I was shooting. Attached File 100 yard target during sight in / practice. Attached File |
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Quoted:
I did a hell of a lot better shooting this than I did on an Appleseed target I tried a couple weeks ago using the same rifle and Tula 75gr ammo. Today I used the same rifle, Aero Betsy lower, Unknown manufacturer A2 upper with a Palmetto 1/7 twist barrel. Today I used Winchester USA Ready 62gr Open Tip ammo I got from TargetSportsUSA. I shot the group from sitting with a sling. Got the last shot off with 2 seconds to spare and and pretty sure it was the one I pulled low. Conditions were 35 degrees, overcast with a mix of very light misting rain / snow. It was almost more like fog settling, which it may well have been as the fog let up as I was shooting. I zeroed and shot a few groups on a different target, then shot two of the challenge targets, with this one being my best one. If I understood the scoring right I shot a 140? I will give it another go next time out and see if I can do better. 12/05/19 - Aero Lower and LPK / 20” PSA 1/7 barrel - A2 open sights - Winchester USA Ready 62gr OT - sitting / sling - 140 https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/18550/5D5501A7-B3EB-4E5D-AEC0-AC82BE58AA37_jpeg-1184656.JPG https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/18550/96263208-C3EA-42B3-86DF-F46241FF51F8_jpeg-1184657.JPG https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/18550/8D985E22-EC59-491D-B2DB-D6C4AE6831DB_jpeg-1184658.JPG Overlooking the valley where I was shooting. https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/18550/A9556ED8-71B1-4D4C-B23A-50FA877BAFD6_jpeg-1184659.JPG 100 yard target during sight in / practice. https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/18550/D2B28267-F4B5-4211-A727-F8B78A59EC63_jpeg-1184660.JPG First irons on the board!! Thanks for posting range and region pix, too. Always interesting to see where folks are popping caps! Great shooting. |
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1]
12/05/2019/ S&W M&P15/16/5.56/Aimpoint PRO/Magpul carbine stock, MBT trigger/55 Hornady SP handload/Sitting/150 
2] 12/05/2019/ Ruger PCC/16/9x19/Burris 1.75-5 Fullfield/9mm 115 CCI Blazer FMJ/Sitting/120 
The Ruger was interesting.........I shot some good groups, but depending on how I held the rifle, the POI shifted. Must work with this one a bit more. 3] 12/05/2019/MrFrankenGun/20"+/5.56/Nikon 3-9/Anderson lower, PSA Melon upper, Magpul handguard, Tapco grip, MBT trigger, "FNFAL" muzzle brake/55 Hornady SP handload/Sitting, sling/170 
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Quoted:
Going to be a little hard to do with anything but a semi. |
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Quoted:
12/5/19; Homebuild; Faxon 14.5” bbl; .223; Trijicon MRO; PMC Bronze; Sitting; Score = 160. I have pictures but don’t know how to post them. I can email or text them to you if that works. Nice challenge. Attached File Attached File Attached File |
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Quoted:
That's the fun of it. A good bolt action (Lee Enfield, M70, M77, American, hella worked over R700) with a 10rd mag shouldn't be too hard. The competition between the strategies of fewer precise shots and more accurate shots may be interesting. Quoted:
Quoted:
Going to be a little hard to do with anything but a semi. For example, of a guy can land 5 shots in the bull in 20 seconds, he'll still score 100. That would equal another shooter who lands all on the paper w/in the allotted time, but doesn't place any in the bull. |
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@Rex_Allen...
Thanks for posting my pictures! And your patience. @EVR... Sorry for not filling out the form/protocol properly. Was trying to read it off of my cell phone, and my 51 yr. old eyes aren’t what they used to be. Compounded by my poor techno-skills on phone and computer. This is a tough challenge. The 20 second time limit combined with 100 yard distance is pretty tight...I finished in 19.28 seconds, and would have loved another 5 seconds! At 65-70 yards, it would be easy in 12-15 seconds, but that extra few yards makes it a challenge. I wouldn’t fare too well with anything but a light-recoiling semi-auto, under your rules. More gun details... SanTan lower; Battle Arms upper; SLR Helix 10.7” handguard; Faxon 14.5” Gunner barrel, mid-length gas; SLR adj. gas block; 2A Arms T3 FH/comp; Faxon LW BCG; TacCom LW buffer; HyperFire 24/3G trigger. This is a soft shooter, but handicapped by the red dot 1X optic at 100 yards (or my eyesight). I’m going to try this again with a standard 16” setup and 1-4X LPVO. |
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@Rex_Allen... Thanks for posting my pictures! And your patience. @EVR... Sorry for not filling out the form/protocol properly. Was trying to read it off of my cell phone, and my 51 yr. old eyes aren’t what they used to be. Compounded by my poor techno-skills on phone and computer. This is a tough challenge. The 20 second time limit combined with 100 yard distance is pretty tight...I finished in 19.28 seconds, and would have loved another 5 seconds! At 65-70 yards, it would be easy in 12-15 seconds, but that extra few yards makes it a challenge. I wouldn’t fare too well with anything but a light-recoiling semi-auto, under your rules. More gun details... SanTan lower; Battle Arms upper; SLR Helix 10.7” handguard; Faxon 14.5” Gunner barrel, mid-length gas; SLR adj. gas block; 2A Arms T3 FH/comp; Faxon LW BCG; TacCom LW buffer; HyperFire 24/3G trigger. This is a soft shooter, but handicapped by the red dot 1X optic at 100 yards (or my eyesight). I’m going to try this again with a standard 16” setup and 1-4X LPVO. I forgot to put the requirement for screen name in the rules!!!
It's going to be interesting to see what rifles are used for this Challenge. The 3 MOA/SHTF Challenge exposed a trend in homebrewed guns doing very well. It'll be interesting to see if that pans out here, too. Yes, 75 yards for the range or 5 extra seconds at 100 would dramatically lessen the difficulty. I've shot a pile of these groups now and I find I get it done on average at 15 seconds but.....there are always a couple three shots I rush. Truth is, if I really milked the time available I think I could tighten the groups up except.........then I'd probably exceed 20 seconds from time to time. Another observation is that the gun really needs to be zeroed well and/or a close and repetitive KY Windage held or the bull is not going to be covered. This is better than just shooting for group like we did on the 3 MOA Challenge. I also found out I really do not like the mag release on the Ruger carbine. Very easy to eject the mag unintentionally when handling it. I really like the gun but that is no bueno. I won it at an NRA fundraiser. I wish they made an insert for SIG P320 mags. |
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Quoted:The 3 MOA/SHTF Challenge exposed a trend in homebrewed guns doing very well. It'll be interesting to see if that pans out here, too. Another observation is that the gun really needs to be zeroed well and/or a close and repetitive KY Windage held or the bull is not going to be covered. This is better than just shooting for group like we did on the 3 MOA Challenge. Please provide a link to your other (3 MOA) challenge. The search feature on AR15.com is not very user friendly for us newbies. I might like to try it out. |
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This is a good point. My gun is zeroed at 200, and I tried to hold at the lower aspect of the 3” Bull. With a red dot 1X optic, that is not very achievable. I should have re-zeroed for 100 yards, but I really don’t like to change my zero once set. And mine has been set for a long time. It is an average of 55 gr. PMC Bronze, 55 gr. Wolf Steel, and 75 gr. Gold Dot. They all shoot to within 1” POA/POI at 200 yds.,, but I shoot a whole lot more of the cheap stuff than the Gold Dots. Please provide a link to your other (3 MOA) challenge. The search feature on AR15.com is not very user friendly for us newbies. I might like to try it out. Quoted:
Quoted:The 3 MOA/SHTF Challenge exposed a trend in homebrewed guns doing very well. It'll be interesting to see if that pans out here, too. Another observation is that the gun really needs to be zeroed well and/or a close and repetitive KY Windage held or the bull is not going to be covered. This is better than just shooting for group like we did on the 3 MOA Challenge. Please provide a link to your other (3 MOA) challenge. The search feature on AR15.com is not very user friendly for us newbies. I might like to try it out. RE: ZEROS; I think this will be interesting for a lot of fellows to find out how hold and zero work together especially with some of those dot sights. I tried a few things to get the shots to land in the bull with my Aimpoint and one thing that helped was to turn it down to a fine dot except...for some reason it became two dots. Never thot I had an astigmatism, but... Or maybe the optic has developed a glitch? Don't know, as clicking it tot the next brightest level and all I saw was one. I've noticed on my range that with iron sights, morning and afternoon light can impact POI due to the way the light reflects off the sights. Maybe @HighpowerRifleBrony can weigh in, but I think this is a well-known phenomenon with high power shooters and I've read the high power shooters often rezero their rifles based on range or daytime lighting and that is why there is a hometeam advantage, since lighting on any given range will cause reflection on the sights differently and a zero that works one one range may not be good enough on another. RE: AMMO; Funny you mention various ammo. I shoot very little factory. Almost none. But I always seem to have odds and ends of other loads laying about. I found that with a 3-9 scope, the difference in POI was great enough I really needed to check a group before shooting for score as the shift between cases was enough to take too many out of the bull. I have a feeling we are going to see a lot of 160's on this COF. And it is going to be pretty tough to hit 180 and very few will sweep it. RE: NON-MAG OPTICS; The real challenge is going to fall in among those with the dot sights where the lighting of the dots and other reticles presented to the shooter seem to vary quite a bit as seen by the shooter. It seems some are easier to use or present a different sight picture to some than others. Maybe we'll see the superiority of one type?? The genesis for this challenge was to streamline and simplify the old 3 MOA Challenge and to add a zero/POI element. That one was a lot of fun, and just like with the 1 MOA All Day Challenge had a tendency to separate the talkers from the shooters.
Here is that one, archived now. I'll stick it in the OP, too. https://www.ar15.com/forums/general/3-MOA-All-Day--Position-Shooting-Association-Challenge-Have-a-Go-/5-1950750/ |
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@EVR
Lot of interesting comments and observations in your last post. Regarding turning the red dot down low for a finer aiming point...that is a great bit of advice, and I normally do if shooting to a fine aiming point. However, with this challenge, I had to turn the dot up (to 5 on the MRO, 3 is normal) because it was way too hard to pick up under time pressure in the bright sunlight. It definitely makes it harder to aim small, though--a 2 MOA dot, with flare added, is great for steel plates but not so much for 100 yard fine tuning. Regarding scores; I honestly thought this would be easier than it was. I do almost all of my AR shooting/practice standing, unsupported, moving, strong & weak side, on various sized steel plates at 50-100 yards, with an emphasis on speed. With a VERY high hit ratio (as in, a miss is extremely rare). When I first read the challenge, I thought I could do it standing. But, I shot the challenge sitting, and posted my first attempt above. Then, I tried it standing...kept them on the 8.5" x 11" paper, but not impressive  .
I'm going to repeat this a few times, but I think I would be hard pressed to go 180 or better. I am, however, going to try it with better ammo and see if that might help by 10 points or so. I don't know, shooting from field positions, though. Lots of other variables at play. Now I'm intrigued...what is the 1MOA All Day? Thanks! |
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Quoted:
@EVR Lot of interesting comments and observations in your last post. Regarding turning the red dot down low for a finer aiming point...that is a great bit of advice, and I normally do if shooting to a fine aiming point. However, with this challenge, I had to turn the dot up (to 5 on the MRO, 3 is normal) because it was way too hard to pick up under time pressure in the bright sunlight. It definitely makes it harder to aim small, though--a 2 MOA dot, with flare added, is great for steel plates but not so much for 100 yard fine tuning. Regarding scores; I honestly thought this would be easier than it was. I do almost all of my AR shooting/practice standing, unsupported, moving, strong & weak side, on various sized steel plates at 50-100 yards, with an emphasis on speed. With a VERY high hit ratio (as in, a miss is extremely rare). When I first read the challenge, I thought I could do it standing. But, I shot the challenge sitting, and posted my first attempt above. Then, I tried it standing...kept them on the 8.5" x 11" paper, but not impressive .
I'm going to repeat this a few times, but I think I would be hard pressed to go 180 or better. I am, however, going to try it with better ammo and see if that might help by 10 points or so. I don't know, shooting from field positions, though. Lots of other variables at play. Now I'm intrigued...what is the 1MOA All Day? Thanks! Here's the 1 MOA. Would like to see some of these fellows come over here and give ours a try....  https://www.ar15.com/forums/precision-rifles/-ARFCOM-1-MOA-ALL-DAY-LONG-Challenge-/17-51/ |
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With a 6 MOA bull on 10 MOA buff, light barely affects zero. My home range tends to be dark. On another range that's bright, the most I'll go up is 1 MOA. In the morning or evening, assuming the target is flat and not cupped, if it has all light or all dark across it, there shouldn't be a windage shift. Half light/half dark, maybe, but again no more than a minute.
I think weight balance, support stiffness, and recoil into the shoulder (yes even with a .22LR) have the most effect on zero between positions. Akin to a firm vs soft grip with a pistol. |
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With a 6 MOA bull on 10 MOA buff, light barely affects zero. My home range tends to be dark. On another range that's bright, the most I'll go up is 1 MOA. In the morning or evening, assuming the target is flat and not cupped, if it has all light or all dark across it, there shouldn't be a windage shift. Half light/half dark, maybe, but again no more than a minute. I think weight balance, support stiffness, and recoil into the shoulder (yes even with a .22LR) have the most effect on zero between positions. Akin to a firm vs soft grip with a pistol. I am dead certain the latter was playing havoc with my 9mm carbine yesterday. I shot some very good groups, but hold being variable with the new gun between target checks, POI shifted fairly dramatically. |
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Magnified Optics: 1] 12/04/2019/Geisselle LE Super Duty/16"/5.56/Burris XTR II 1-5/ACT trigger/Federal 62 gr M855/Sitting/ 130 I should say I've been off for most of two weeks and drank several too many Mexican beers last night... Taped up the old targets on the backer for OP, and added some targets-- https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/64501/IMG_3819_JPG-1184073.JPG 100 yards at PRG https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/64501/IMG_3822_JPG-1184079.JPG The rifle I shot today-- https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/64501/IMG_3826_JPG-1184080.JPG 130 https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/64501/IMG_3829_JPG-1184082.JPG I think my circle is actually just a little less than 3" https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/64501/IMG_3832_JPG-1184083.JPG |