[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Bolt Action PCC Part Deux (Page 2 of 3)
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Quoted: @arashi From what I understand about controlled round feed, my design doesnt technically meet the criteria; but is somewhere between a typical AR and controlled round feed. Part of my goals for the design was using as many commonly available components as possible. It uses AR extractors. And AR PCC firing pins, for that matter. Controlled round feed means that the cartridge is held against the bolt face from the moment it leaves the magazine. This prevents people from short stroking the bolt and jamming the rifle. The rifle also needs to reliably cycle ammo in all orientations and all bolt actuation speeds. It needs to feed and eject reliably while upside down and having the bold cycled very slowly. If the plan is to have a steel upper receiver, I fear the weight will be excessive for a PCC. I look forward to seeing more. |
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Quoted: @backbencher 1) Calm your tits.  2) I'll be the first in line when they're commercially available for purchase with my credit card ready to go. 3) Since @hitchhiker has designed this system to be compatible with standard components, presumably a Broad River Tactical HK MP5SD style ported barrel for AR9s and AR receiver MP5SD suppressor compatible shroud / handguard would bolt right up.  Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Slick! Would be sweet to make a modern De Lisle in 45acp @hitchhiker, you NEED to build one that accepts a HK MP5SD style ported barrel / is compatible with MP5SD suppressors. 124g 9mm bled down to subsonic speed with no accompanying action noise would be astonishing!  Howz about YOU buy his gun when it's available, and YOU make a barrel compatible w/ his system that takes MP5SD suppressors. You'll make a mint!Quoted: I have completely revamped the design. It will take standard blowback AR barrels, pic rails and free float foregrips, ..... @backbencher 1) Calm your tits. 2) I'll be the first in line when they're commercially available for purchase with my credit card ready to go. 3) Since @hitchhiker has designed this system to be compatible with standard components, presumably a Broad River Tactical HK MP5SD style ported barrel for AR9s and AR receiver MP5SD suppressor compatible shroud / handguard would bolt right up. Well, #3 is great news. #1 comes back to whenever someone introduces a great idea, 87 people immediately pile on and say make it do this niche thing that only I and 2 of my buddies would be interested in buying, and only 1 of the 3 of us will actually pay for. This is why the M14 ended up full auto, the Bradley ended up w/ 6 firing ports, and the M231 was invented. Let the man get it made in steel, prove the action works, find a manufacturer, and start shipping product before we start demanding this or that. |
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@bmarshall1 Sorry, didnt catch this question “It has an upper and lower, not AR compatible- are they loosely based on the AR platform.” Yes, they are. The major two differences are the takedown pin locations are at a different spacing, and the geometry between the upper and lower are different. @arashi After thinking on it, controlled round feed isnt possible due to the angle difference between the case head and bolt face as the round is being stripped from the magazine. Stripped upper weight is 22oz, tentatively. Heavy, but PCC barrels are lighter than standard AR barrels so the balance will be better than most ARs. @Jeeps-And-Guns A lower for berretta 92 mags is possible, but that type of thing is a long-term goal. @BigPolska No idea on price yet. @backbencher There is a gas vent hole and a provision on the bolt face to divert gas to it in the case of a ruptured primer. |
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Quoted: @arashi After thinking on it, controlled round feed isnt possible due to the angle difference between the case head and bolt face as the round is being stripped from the magazine. Controlled round feed is generally dependent on using the side mounted extractor to control the case as it rides up the feed ramp. If you're using an AR extractor, controlled round feed won't work. If you swipe a Mauser 98 extractor & hang it off the side of the bolt, you could probably do it. You will likely be money ahead if you make your magwell overly large and use inserts to adapt each magazine type & size to it. @zaitcev can give you suggestions, as he makes magwell adapters for all sorts of guns. |
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Quoted: @Jeeps-And-Guns A lower for berretta 92 mags is possible, but that type of thing is a long-term goal. Sorry, that comment was a little factious as every time something new comes out, first thing everyone on this site always asks is "does it take glock mags". So it was my crude attempt at humor and taking a stab back at them cause I get so sick of seeing that comment. With that being said, it is really cool that you would be willing to make a 92 mag lower. I have a bunch of them and not one single glock (or glock mag) and never plan on getting any. Would be cool to see a 44 mag and 357 mag version |
take that crap to tech forum. |
This design is sophisticated enough that it needs to be featured at weaponsguild.com. Making the upper serialized allows anyone who wants a Beretta 84 magazine or whatnot to print their own. I'm just a little disappointed that the cross-section of the bolt prohibits dual-feed magazines, such as Scorpion and MP5. I'm very curious what the price point is going to be. |
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@zaitcev One of the reasons I want the upper to be serialized is to open up the possibility of me (and third party manufacturers) of offering to-your-door shippable lowers in different mag and style configurations. I need to start an account at weapons guild. You arent the first to mention it. Early on in this project, dual feed capability was one of the goals. It isnt completely off the table as of yet, but its something I had to compromise on in order to make progress and make the project more feasible. It took way more time and effort to make this happen than I anticipated, and I dont even have a firing prototype yet 4 plus years in.  I, also, am very curious as to what the price will wind up being. No idea as of yet. |
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Quoted: @hitchhiker I forgot to ask, and don't take this the wrong way. Are there not other 9mm bolt actions out there? If not then my question is answered. If yes, then what does your's bring to the table the others are lacking? I cant think of anything off hand that is factory production? Not only that but based on the Ar15 platform. Good on your Op....lots of great ideas out there but it takes work to get it done! |
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Quoted: I cant think of anything off hand that is factory production? Not only that but based on the Ar15 platform. Good on your Op....lots of great ideas out there but it takes work to get it done! Quoted: Quoted: @hitchhiker I forgot to ask, and don't take this the wrong way. Are there not other 9mm bolt actions out there? If not then my question is answered. If yes, then what does your's bring to the table the others are lacking? I cant think of anything off hand that is factory production? Not only that but based on the Ar15 platform. Good on your Op....lots of great ideas out there but it takes work to get it done! https://www.ar15.com/forums/t_3_118/789173_Why-are-there-so-few-bolt-action-AR-uppers-.html |
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@TN-MadDog The answer, of course, is both.  As of the current design, it will be like changing any ither AR barrel. Down the road I will look into doing a QD rail of some sort to make barrel changes easy. No idea on any pricing. Been playing with different ejector ideas today. The blowback ejectors dont work well unless the bolt is moving pretty fast. May revert to a standard AR ejector. |
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Quoted: I cant think of anything off hand that is factory production? Not only that but based on the Ar15 platform. Good on your Op....lots of great ideas out there but it takes work to get it done! It takes so much work that I have shelved this project for months at a time in frustration. If I had a wife and kids, there would have been zero chance of it ever being more than a cool idea. |
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Quoted: @TN-MadDog The answer, of course, is both. As of the current design, it will be like changing any ither AR barrel. Down the road I will look into doing a QD rail of some sort to make barrel changes easy. No idea on any pricing. Been playing with different ejector ideas today. The blowback ejectors dont work well unless the bolt is moving pretty fast. May revert to a standard AR ejector. Wouldn’t it also require a different lower since the mag wells would be different? |
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Quoted: @TN-MadDog As of now, yes. The lower isnt a firearm with this design, so youd be able to order one and have it shipped to your door like you can with a standard AR upper. Will play with a universal lower and magwell inserts eventually. @m6z No idea on timeframe. I understand that this is still under development and the design is not set in stone. My point was that the less interchangeable it is, the more expensive it will be to change from say 9mm to 45acp. If I have to have two lowers that also means two stocks since I wouldn’t want to have to swap them back and forth. So it seems as of now if I wanted 9mm and 45acp I would probably just have two complete set ups. That being the case I would just decide which I would rather have and just pick one option. I’m still on the fence on which one I would pick but I definitely want one. But I’m getting old so don’t take too much longer |
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Quoted: @NorthPolar I will be drawing a bolt body up tonight that takes a standard ejector, and it already takes standard extractors. Negative on the barrel extension though. Too much room for hard to clear malfunctions; has to be a blowback barrel.  makes sense. It was lunchtime musings on my end.
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Quoted: I understand that this is still under development and the design is not set in stone. My point was that the less interchangeable it is, the more expensive it will be to change from say 9mm to 45acp. If I have to have two lowers that also means two stocks since I wouldn’t want to have to swap them back and forth. So it seems as of now if I wanted 9mm and 45acp I would probably just have two complete set ups. That being the case I would just decide which I would rather have and just pick one option. I’m still on the fence on which one I would pick but I definitely want one. But I’m getting old so don’t take too much longer Fair points. Hadnt looked at it from that angle, thank you. Itll take some time, but now that I have patent pending I can safely post updates on progress. The support here is great motivation and I definately appreciate it. |
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Quoted: Fair points. Hadnt looked at it from that angle, thank you. Itll take some time, but now that I have patent pending I can safely post updates on progress. The support here is great motivation and I definately appreciate it. Quoted: Quoted: I understand that this is still under development and the design is not set in stone. My point was that the less interchangeable it is, the more expensive it will be to change from say 9mm to 45acp. If I have to have two lowers that also means two stocks since I wouldn’t want to have to swap them back and forth. So it seems as of now if I wanted 9mm and 45acp I would probably just have two complete set ups. That being the case I would just decide which I would rather have and just pick one option. I’m still on the fence on which one I would pick but I definitely want one. But I’m getting old so don’t take too much longer Fair points. Hadnt looked at it from that angle, thank you. Itll take some time, but now that I have patent pending I can safely post updates on progress. The support here is great motivation and I definately appreciate it. I’ll keep following the progress, looking forward to seeing the final product. |
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This has gone a different direction from the original concept, not that I’m against it. I actually preferred the first iteration as it didn’t look like another AR. I can understand the benefit to utilizing existing components, so no worries from me. I have one suggestion if it isn’t already on the radar. (I skimmed the thread so I may have missed it.) It will require a minor redesign but if you borrow a concept from the bolt action manufacturers and use an interchangeable bolt head you could offer 2-4 uppers sized for the standard calibers with a swappable bolt head. |
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Quoted: @gsd1983 The upper is already universal pistol caliber, and the bolt body can be swapped for different cartridges. Currently have bolt bodies printed for 9mm and .45, and will do .380 next. Fair enough. That was either in the original thread or I missed it. |
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Quoted: quick question i havent been on the forum in a long time... how do i save or subscribe or tag or whatever so i dont loose this lol... You can always copy the web address and email it to yourself |
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Quoted: I think that is a paid membership feature. Or at least mine stopped working after I stopped paying. You can always copy the web address and email it to yourself well darn yeah i dont think it use to be but its been a while since ive been on here, guess ill try to bookmark it lol, thanks. |