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didnt they make a .44 semi auto version? like a deerfeild or something did those ever work good Oh and no wife pics, I know the rules and ignored them for PERSEC reasons Going to work now will reply more a little later thanks for the input so far guys |
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Looking at that wall of text, I get a strong sense of what it is to stand at the base of Mount Everest, looking up in awe, and know that I'm not even going to take one step forward, let alone attempt a summit! I didn't post it for you! 
Its a bear hunter from WA, just like the OP, I hope he finds it useful in his consideration for a trail gun. 
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Then you aren't following up to date knowledge about black bear. EVERYONE should carry bear spray into the backcountry. It's way better to have options. Quoted:
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Whatever, if I'm in bear territory I just carry a big can of bear spray. Less weight, better deterrent . But hey, it's a free country. I am not into deterrents 
Then you aren't following up to date knowledge about black bear. EVERYONE should carry bear spray into the backcountry. It's way better to have options. And pray that when you meet that angry bear that it is a completely calm day or the wind is blowing perfectly in his direction. What do you do when you are above the treeline and a bear is coming at you and the wind is whistling at a comfortable 20mph right over his head and into your face? You gotta wait till he's about 6 feet away before your spray will do any good, and you are going to get a face full of spray as well. No thank you. |
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I hike multiple times per week in the backwoods. I don't carry a rifle. I think it's 150% overkill, personally. Bears, mountain lions, etc. are common, too. My .22lr revolver is a fine, FINE backwoods gun as well. that is until I need it to defend myself with, then I'll wish I had a M1 Abrams..
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My .22lr revolver is a fine, FINE backwoods gun as well. that is until I need it to defend myself with, then I'll wish I had a M1 Abrams..
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I hike multiple times per week in the backwoods. I don't carry a rifle. I think it's 150% overkill, personally. Bears, mountain lions, etc. are common, too. My .22lr revolver is a fine, FINE backwoods gun as well. that is until I need it to defend myself with, then I'll wish I had a M1 Abrams..
You have an M1 Abrams??? That would be so cool to have one, hell, to even ride in one! |
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Backstory: This weekend I took my 5 year old on his first overnight hike, other than losing his shoe 75 feet down a ravine about 1/10th of a mile from the trail head he did great. 
We were hiking through National Forest and into a wilderness area, bears are common, cougars are common, and pot grows (while rare) can happen. On our way back about 1/2 mile from our campsite my wife and I heard some very angry growling from behind a Rhododendron patch about 20 feet away. It seems a bear had taken offense to us being near it 
I unholstered my G27 and moved the wife, boy, and dog ahead of me on the trail. We put a little distance between us and the bear (who was still pissed) and I had my wife undo the straps holding my rifle to my pack. We moved away unmolested and the bear continued living without any hydraulic leaks. When originally got to camp my wife saw the rifle as I was unpacking my pack and said "why did you bring that, all it does is add weight to your pack/" After the bear shenanigans I asked her "what do you think about the extra weight now"
She said ""yeah it is well worth it huh?" The rifle is a trashcan WASR-10 underfolder it is completely barebones, it has a sling and 2 mags taped together. I fold it and put it in a old military dry sack and it fits nicely at the bottom of my pack, it comes undone quickly and is pretty discreet. It goes bang every time and is good for minute-of-bear to 100 yards with the open sights. I think it weighs about 12-13 lbs with both mags So does anyone have a better idea for a bare bones backpacking rifle, especially something lighter weight. Here are my requirements: Folding stock (SBRs are a no go in this state) Rugged Quick to deploy self defense worthy caliber ultra reliable Here are my wants: lighter weight 30 cal or above semi auto I could be trying to fix a problem I dont have or reinvent a wheel that turn fine but I would like to hear some other input TLDR better backpack rifle than an underfolder AK wanted I dunno, if that bear can wade through 30-60 rounds of FMJ at close range, about all you'll want next is the spike bayonet. After that if he's still game, the Mrs needs to open up a can of Glock 20 whoop ass. Maybe a nice old 870 or 1100 or a Mossberg 12 ga. 18" with a pistol grip spittin' out slugs but I'm still likin' the semi-auto goodness of all that 30 cal launching in a flurry of flames and ear bustin' noise. I would never intentionally set out to hunt bear with an AK but in a pinch like that, you want a lot of bang in a hurry and that's what's on tap with the AK. |
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Quoted: And pray that when you meet that angry bear that it is a completely calm day or the wind is blowing perfectly in his direction. What do you do when you are above the treeline and a bear is coming at you and the wind is whistling at a comfortable 20mph right over his head and into your face? You gotta wait till he's about 6 feet away before your spray will do any good, and you are going to get a face full of spray as well. No thank you. Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Whatever, if I'm in bear territory I just carry a big can of bear spray. Less weight, better deterrent . But hey, it's a free country. I am not into deterrents Then you aren't following up to date knowledge about black bear. EVERYONE should carry bear spray into the backcountry. It's way better to have options. And pray that when you meet that angry bear that it is a completely calm day or the wind is blowing perfectly in his direction. What do you do when you are above the treeline and a bear is coming at you and the wind is whistling at a comfortable 20mph right over his head and into your face? You gotta wait till he's about 6 feet away before your spray will do any good, and you are going to get a face full of spray as well. No thank you. That's why you get both. If the spray can't be used, or isn't effective, then you also have a gun.
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No rifle you carry is going to make any difference in a bear attack if you carry it in your pack or slung in such a way that your wife has to in strap it for you. If you don't intend to carry it either at the ready or slung in such a way as to be instantly deployable, say under 1.5 seconds then abandoned the idea altogether. In that case go with major handgun (g20). If you have to go with Lon gun, go with pump shotty with slugs. My vote Winchester 1300 due to aluminum receiver and less weight. Helluva lot less expensive too and certainly adequate for your needs. Birdshot would be good survival food getter too. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile |
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$975.00
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my $0.02...
Is the problem with the WASR it's weight or deployability? If it is the latter, AF304 already has you hooked up... Quoted:
I have a couple of Eberlestock backpacks with built in rifle scabbards.Very comfortable to carry with easy access to the rifle. Quoted:
I have a couple of Eberlestock backpacks with built in rifle scabbards.Very comfortable to carry with easy access to the rifle. As nice as the Eberlestock packs are, it may be heavier than your current pack so there could be a trade-off. If it is the weight of the rifle that is your primary concern, oldschool63 has you hooked up... Quoted:
Rem 870 12ga 45/70 Lever action Para Fal a Para FAL weighs 8.4 lbs (source- wikipedia), and a loaded FAL mag weighs 1.3- 1.6 lbs (couldn't really find a good source) so total weight would be 9.7-10 lbs. You estimate your WASR at 12-13 lbs, so you could still be saving up to 3.3 lbs by getting a FAL Para. In addition to the weight savings, you'd have a FAL Para 
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Here are my requirements: Folding stock (SBRs are a no go in this state) - Your WASR checks this block Rugged - Your WASR is already this Quick to deploy - Change your pack to an Eberlestock self defense worthy caliber - WASR has it ultra reliable - I'd say your WASR is this Here are my wants: lighter weight - FAL Para with loaded 20 rd mag weighs less. see my math below... 30 cal or above - Both a FAL and your WASR are this semi auto - FAL and WASR are both semi-autos TTAG says your under-folder WASR weighs 6.9 lbs. Weight of a loaded 30 rd AK mag is 1.85 lbs (source at 0:48), and you're carrying 2 mags so 1.85 x 2 + 6.9 = 10.6 lbs. In my original reply I estimated the weight of a Para FAL w/ loaded 20 rd mag @ 9.7-10 lbs. Obviously, there is a trade-off (60 rds of 7.62x39 vs. 20 rds of 7.62x51). Personally, if cash was an issue I'd get a new pack and go with a Tapco 20 rd AK mag (I've heard of no issues with Tapco AK mags other than making sure they fit in the rifle). Carrying less ammo and a single polymer magazine should reduce the weight of the rifle enough to off-set an increase in your pack weight. Also, the shorter 20 mag will help with deploying the rifle from the pack. If cash wasn't an issue, I'd go with the new pack and the Para FAL just to get a Para FAL. Right now, you should be able to convince your SO that a FAL Para is a better counter-bear gun. |
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These were my first thought. There's a lot to be said for a 44 mag coming out of a 12" barrel. |
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300 blk pistol Quoted:
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Ar-15 and 10 are out because they dont fold and are too long (and the folding adapters are stupid) I would totally be up for a 10.5" .300BLK but blue state laws get in the way which is sad because the AR would take care of the lightweight part. I thought about a G20 but I want a rifle in addition to a pistol on my pack and I like the idea of 30+ rounds from an intermediate rifle cartridge. As I said it not just for the 4 legged bears (dope growers are more dangerous) and just to clarify the bear we encountered was a Black Bear (no big brown types here) 300 blk pistol This |
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I am not into deterrents
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Whatever, if I'm in bear territory I just carry a big can of bear spray. Less weight, better deterrent . But hey, it's a free country. I am not into deterrents
But it's also better for your safety. It's pretty easy to get a miss or non-stopping shot on a bear with a firearm. And if it doesn't stop it, an injured large animal is a whole lot more dangerous than it was before being injured. Bear spray has never turned a bear incident for the worse. It is a whole lot more effective in keeping you safe, and the bear alive. The bears don't really usually want to kill you, they just want you to be somewhere else. You don't really know what you're talking about. I suspect it's because you've never been face to face with a bear. I have, and I can tell you that bear spray works very well. I would never go into the wilderness without a gun though either. Cheers! -JC |
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SU-16C. ~5.7 pounds loaded. http://www.keltecweapons.com/uploaded_files/ourguns/gallery/b_36476d769382bc13f7685aa7e41b12eaCIMG1925.jpg Kel-Tec  But you'll want it actually work if you need it.
Cheers! -JC |
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I wouldn't carry both a rifle and pistol, backpacking. Just too much weight.
I don't travel bear country so my primary concern is dogs and assholes. G26 or a smith airweight is usually what I carry. If in real bear country where there is a decent chance I'm gonna have to plug a bear (still fairly remote if you're not stupid about it but not impossible) I'd carry an Ithaca 37 with Brenneke slugs, in a scabbard that I could draw it from, quickly. I don't think there are many rifles that are gonna equal the stopping power of those slugs. There are a lot of guides in AK that make this same choice. If in particularly drug infested country (which I have a 200 acre plot of woods in eastern KY) I carry a pencil bbl Colt ar carbine or a lightweight FAL. |
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I don't think there has been a bear attack on a person in washington state in 40 years. I don't worry about them much, and I spend a lot of time in the mountains, seen lots of bears, too.
I googled and found 2 since 1940... and one was a 'pet' biting its owner. Another source says Only one fatal bear attack has been recorded in Washington state. There are three non-fatal attacks on record. |
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Curious specifically where you were?
I went on a solo hike/camp a couple weeks ago In the Gifford Pinchot, heard something loudly crashing through the woods next to the trail I was on, that certainly got my attention. FWIW I carry a G20 with 1400fps 180gr hardcast loads. Provided I can put the rounds on target it shouldn't have any problems with black bears of cougars. |
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I didn't post it for you!
Its a bear hunter from WA, just like the OP, I hope he finds it useful in his consideration for a trail gun. Quoted:
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Looking at that wall of text, I get a strong sense of what it is to stand at the base of Mount Everest, looking up in awe, and know that I'm not even going to take one step forward, let alone attempt a summit! I didn't post it for you!
Its a bear hunter from WA, just like the OP, I hope he finds it useful in his consideration for a trail gun. Well, the time he spends actually reading it should keep him out of the woods and safe in his recliner for a month or two!
Just ribbing ya; it was a good post. Just looked huge. |
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Quoted: Here is a copy/paste I saved, it may interest you if you have BLACK bears. For your consideration: Quoted: Here is a copy/paste I saved, it may interest you if you have BLACK bears. For your consideration: POST 1 huge post edited out for brevity -JJHACK Thanks for posting that....I enjoyed the read!
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If the problem is bears, then I'm going to recommend bear spray.
If the problem is people, then I'm going to recommend something like a concealed 9mm pistol. My packs are already heavy enough. I can't imagine an extra 12-13 pounds improving the situation. I was once so worn out from a heavy pack that getting mauled to death by a brown bear would have been a pleasant change of pace. |
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If the problem is bears, then I'm going to recommend bear spray. If the problem is people, then I'm going to recommend something like a concealed 9mm pistol. My packs are already heavy enough. I can't imagine an extra 12-13 pounds improving the situation. I was once so worn out from a heavy pack that getting mauled to death by a brown bear would have been a pleasant change of pace. My feeling is its gotta be a huge blackie to take more than a normal defense caliber handgun rd to dissuade them so when I'm playing there I carry my g23 or 27 , but when we mess around in grizzly country its my guide gun loaded with 350gr goodness that helps me sleep at night. Even then my concern is 2 legged critters rather than furry 4 legged |
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Quoted: http://thespecialistsltd.com/files/M1_Carbine_Paratrooper_1.jpg You want a M1 carbine with the paratroop stock, super light weight 15 rounders or 30 rounders and about the same stopping power as your current setup. and much lighter. this |
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I would think that if you AK-underfolder had enough muzzle energy to knock down a bear, and it was working for you, it might be a good idea to stick with it.
It seems perfect, IMHO, as long as it's reliable. It's not like you'd be out any real cash if it got lost or something. I'd maybe spray-paint it to stave off rust and keep carrying it. |
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SNIP I think it weighs about 12-13 lbs with both mags So does anyone have a better idea for a bare bones backpacking rifle, especially something lighter weight. Here are my requirements: Folding stock (SBRs are a no go in this state) Rugged Quick to deploy self defense worthy caliber ultra reliable Here are my wants: lighter weight 30 cal or above semi auto I could be trying to fix a problem I dont have or reinvent a wheel that turn fine but I would like to hear some other input TLDR better backpack rifle than an underfolder AK wanted I think your AK is a great choice for a semi auto rifle. I dont think think your current weight estimate is incorrect. According to the CTD specs a wasr underfolder weighs 7.2 lbs. get some polymer mags and see if the weight is reduced further. |
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When I think backpacking I think multi day trips and 20+ miles at the least- so every oz counts and smaller=better.
Having spent 25 years backpacking in Colorado myself and 40+ years under my fathers belts we've never felt compelled to carry anything other than a pistol. And of that- its more for the 2 legged vermin than those on all 4's. Most backpackers dont even carry that. my .02 |
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If you want to spend money you can go with a eberlestock those are great packs, you can carry almost any
Rifle in them also so you can run a AR if you would like and it carrys nice also 
ETA:Link |