[ARCHIVED THREAD] - 9mm VS 7.62 x25 tokarev (Page 2 of 3)
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Yeah - I was surprised about the selection of JHP ammo. In this case, I ran my mouth off without looking into the facts and just assumed the selection was as poor as with 9x18. My bad. A FMJ bullet going 1500 fps will penetrate excessively though. What kind of velocity do you get out of the .30 Carbine FMJ? 'cause I hear all kinds of stories about it not taking down Chinese/Korean soldiers, rather than getting excessive penetration. |
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ummm everyones wrong. Try loading some 762x25 into a glock 20 magazine, they fit in perfectly. I can put in about 12 rounds and it goes in perfectly. How does that make anyone wrong? There still are absolutely ZERO modern handguns chambered for the round. |
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The weird grip angle on the CZ-52 is awkward, but once you get used to it and realize that it was designed to be fired with only one hand (the old-fashioned way), you forget it. The only problem I have with the CZ-52 is the European-style mag-release on the heel, and you know what? Just about every other handgun on the fucking continent featured that at the time, so get over it. Next you'll bitch that the Walther P-38 was a turd. Oh geez, I can just imagine you trying to load and operate a Mauser c96.  
"This gun is fucking horrible! And why do the sights go out to a thousand yards?! It's a fucking handgun!" No, I really like my Mauser 712, great piece. But yeah, I don't think much of the P-38, and why should I? Doesn't hold very many rounds and the mag release sucks. Sure I got a P-1 and have had P-38s but it's nothing I would want to carry. And NO, not every other pistol on the continent had a shitty heel release. They came about for a reason, it was a stupid one. The Russians admitted it when they dumped the PM and adopted the PYa. but hell, this is coming from a guy who has carried a Webley .380/200 in combat..... |
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ummm everyones wrong. Try loading some 762x25 into a glock 20 magazine, they fit in perfectly. I can put in about 12 rounds and it goes in perfectly. How much would a custom barrel cost?  He also failed to mention what caliber the Glock 20 magazine is for. Different calibers have different size followers. |
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FAC used to make one before they went tits up....
They did a batch of it before and it was made in Korea ..same company making the lone wolf glock barrels. Saying WRONG to the people that don't know what the fuck they are talking about... I've tried putting tokarev rounds in to a glock 20 magazine and it worked fine. cycled and came out easily with ease and no issues. All I am saying is that it was done before and it can be done again. |
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FAC used to make one before they went tits up.... They did a batch of it before and it was made in Korea ..same company making the lone wolf glock barrels. Saying WRONG to the people that don't know what the fuck they are talking about... I've tried putting tokarev rounds in to a glock 20 magazine and it worked fine. WHAT CALIBER? cycled and came out easily with ease and no issues. They cycled through the gun? What caliber? Or do you mean "they fit in the magazine and they all popped out when I pushed them out with my thumb"? All I am saying is that it was done before and it can be done again. Yeah, we kinda WANT someone to do it again. 
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ummm everyones wrong. Try loading some 762x25 into a glock 20 magazine, they fit in perfectly. I can put in about 12 rounds and it goes in perfectly. Nope, I have tried it before, they don't fit. I tried Bulgarian and Polish, neither worked. They are too long. |
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ummm everyones wrong. Try loading some 762x25 into a glock 20 magazine, they fit in perfectly. I can put in about 12 rounds and it goes in perfectly. Nope, I have tried it before, they don't fit. I tried Bulgarian and Polish, neither worked. They are too long. Every single time you post, I get fucking Tunak Tunak Tun stuck in my head for the next thirty minutes. |
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FAC used to make one before they went tits up.... They did a batch of it before and it was made in Korea ..same company making the lone wolf glock barrels. Saying WRONG to the people that don't know what the fuck they are talking about... I've tried putting tokarev rounds in to a glock 20 magazine and it worked fine. WHAT CALIBER? cycled and came out easily with ease and no issues. They cycled through the gun? What caliber? Or do you mean "they fit in the magazine and they all popped out when I pushed them out with my thumb"? All I am saying is that it was done before and it can be done again. Yeah, we kinda WANT someone to do it again.
G20 = 10mm. |
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Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Im curious what other ArfComers think about why everyone seems to be fixated on expensive 9mm when there is so much of that relatively inexpensive 7.62 x 25 tokarev ammo out there. The price of it is stable too, and its available. Ill admit there aren't any Ruger, S&W or Kimber handguns that chamber the round but for pure inexpensive range time, how can it be beat? It is no slouch either when it comes to muzzle velocity, penetration and plain simple tried and true reliability. Over penetration could be a problem for a city dweller, but for us country guys, its made to order. I guess you haven't shot much of the surplus shit that I've gotten. One in every 12 rounds needs a re-strike.  Now the Sellier & Bellot is GOOD. Polish? 1260 tins? Not really sure - headstamp is "22" over "84" on bottom. Three dimples on case neck holding bullet into case. Brass Berdan-primed. A friend gave it to me because you couldn't put two rounds through the handgun without it jamming completely closed; I took all 1400 rounds he gave me and ran them through my sizing die (with the decapper out) and shrunk the cartridges to normal size. Now they all fit but 1 in 12 to 1 in 20 don't fire the first time you smack 'em, and about half of those don't fire on the second strike. I think my buddy got them from AIM Surplus a couple of years ago, and they sent him some replacement ammo which also was the same. I got the lot of it because he couldn't shoot it. |
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Im curious what other ArfComers think about why everyone seems to be fixated on expensive 9mm when there is so much of that relatively inexpensive 7.62 x 25 tokarev ammo out there. The price of it is stable too, and its available. Ill admit there aren't any Ruger, S&W or Kimber handguns that chamber the round but for pure inexpensive range time, how can it be beat? It is no slouch either when it comes to muzzle velocity, penetration and plain simple tried and true reliability. Over penetration could be a problem for a city dweller, but for us country guys, its made to order. I guess you haven't shot much of the surplus shit that I've gotten. One in every 12 rounds needs a re-strike.
Now the Sellier & Bellot is GOOD. Polish? 1260 tins? Not really sure - headstamp is "22" over "84" on bottom. Three dimples on case neck holding bullet into case. Brass Berdan-primed. That's Romanian surplus. It's the only 7.62x25 load of which I've experienced reliability issues. Have had two or three rounds that needed a second strike in my Cz52. Accuracy was not as good as the new production FNM stuff I had exclusively shot previously. As far as JHPs in the caliber: FNM makes/made one as well. It chronoed just below 1500 out of my '52. Huge muzzle blast, light recoil, fairly accurate. |
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ummm everyones wrong. Try loading some 762x25 into a glock 20 magazine, they fit in perfectly. I can put in about 12 rounds and it goes in perfectly. Yeah, I tried and they don't fit in perfectly. They are just a tad too long. I can get in 12, but that's only because they have to be angled in the mag to fit. |
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What kind of velocity do you get out of the .30 Carbine FMJ? 'cause I hear all kinds of stories about it not taking down Chinese/Korean soldiers, rather than getting excessive penetration. Myth. Check OP's Box o' truth. I'm quite aware that it's a myth. I was making a point. What velocity does FMJ .30 Carbine travel at? Does it overpenetrate? Why would 7.62x25mm be any worse? |
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Like everybody else, I think the 7.62x25 absolutely rocks faces, but the firearms that utilize this wonderful round are less than desirable. Hell I would even put cash down a Glock today if they offered one in 7.62x25! You can get them in 9x25 with a $150 aftermarket barrel. Now THAT is a cartridge to get excited about. (If you reload). 
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More penetration test on kevlar:
http://theboxotruth.com/docs/bot29_4.htm 9mm, .45, and .357 didn't penetrate the helmet. 7.62x25 did. I'd be interested to see the results of 7.62x25 JHPs against the helmet. |
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Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: snip but hell, this is coming from a guy who has carried a Webley .380/200 in combat..... You what? Dude, wait, WHUT? I wasn't going to comment on it because I couldn't find the LOL WUT pic with Lootie stealing one of the letters. Gunwritr is Dean Speir, right? Is he a Jewish fellow who possibly served with the IDF? They conceiveably could have had Webelys. Either that or he's a Canadian? |
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Quoted: More penetration test on kevlar: http://theboxotruth.com/docs/bot29_4.htm 9mm, .45, and .357 didn't penetrate the helmet. 7.62x25 did. I'd be interested to see the results of 7.62x25 JHPs against the helmet. Man, TMAN was in that shot.  God Save him, I'd bet the old boy is working on Archangel Gabriel's M1911 as we speak. |
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More penetration test on kevlar: http://theboxotruth.com/docs/bot29_4.htm 9mm, .45, and .357 didn't penetrate the helmet. 7.62x25 did. I'd be interested to see the results of 7.62x25 JHPs against the helmet. Man, TMAN was in that shot.
God Save him, I'd bet the old boy is working on Archangel Gabriel's M1911 as we speak. Nah, he just finished tuning Jeff Cooper's 1911. It literally strikes with the fist of an angry God.
Armageddon is gonna be EPIC.
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Has anyone tried it in a PPSH? A lot of dead Nazis say it works well out of the PPSH.  A fuckload of dead Nazis can't be wrong!
Heck, the Nazis even grabbed all the PPSch-41's they could. Partly because they couldn't get enough SMG's to the eastern front, partly because it kicks so much ass! I think just about every statue in Russia commemorating WWII involves a PPSch-41 somewhere. Until the Kalashnikov, no other firearm was as deeply ingrained in the Russia psyche. |
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Like everybody else, I think the 7.62x25 absolutely rocks faces, but the firearms that utilize this wonderful round are less than desirable. Hell I would even put cash down a Glock today if they offered one in 7.62x25! You can get them in 9x25 with a $150 aftermarket barrel. Now THAT is a cartridge to get excited about. (If you reload). Who would want to spend 700 bucks for a Glock that you can't even by off the shelf ammo for? Not only would I have to make the investment in the pistol, I would be out another several hundred bucks for a reloading press too. I could pick up another AR, or a really nice 1911 for that kind of cash. Glock, Springfield, or even Smith and Wesson, are you listening? F- the .357 sig, a 7.62x25 double stack pistol would sell like hot cakes! |
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What kind of velocity do you get out of the .30 Carbine FMJ? 'cause I hear all kinds of stories about it not taking down Chinese/Korean soldiers, rather than getting excessive penetration. Myth. Check OP's Box o' truth. I'm quite aware that it's a myth. I was making a point. What velocity does FMJ .30 Carbine travel at? Does it overpenetrate? Why would 7.62x25mm be any worse? What is your point?
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What kind of velocity do you get out of the .30 Carbine FMJ? 'cause I hear all kinds of stories about it not taking down Chinese/Korean soldiers, rather than getting excessive penetration. Myth. Check OP's Box o' truth. I'm quite aware that it's a myth. I was making a point. What velocity does FMJ .30 Carbine travel at? Does it overpenetrate? Why would 7.62x25mm be any worse? What is your point?That a 7.62x25mm wouldn't be any worse at over-penetrating than .30 Carbine. .30 Carbine often gets compared to .357 Magnum, and it's coming out of a carbine, not a handgun (usually). I fail to see why, with 7.62x25mm coming out of a handgun, overpenetration would be a major issue. Unless you shoot someone in a spot without much meat and bone to stop the bullet, it's not an issue. Same as every other caliber. Heck, I've shot pigs from point-blank range with a .30-06 and not had the bullet exit. 7.62 Tokarev isn't a magical round that will go straight through bad guys and then seek out the nearest baby so it can punch it in the face. Does it get amazing penetration? Yes. But so do other pistol rounds. Will it go through soft armor and level III rated kevlar helmets? Yes. But so does 5.7mm and it gets absolutely shitty penetration. Let's rely on real-world data before we get too scared to use a caliber (which was used to kill ungodly numbers of Nazi troops) in self-defense; now, we need real-world data. Unfortunately, it's rather sparse. Ballistics gel tests prove the round gets awesome penetration, but they don't show the whole picture (what happens when it hits solid bone, for example). We know the Soviets used it to great effect on the Nazis and they've brought it back on a limited basis as a special-purpose round (conceivably because it has less recoil and won't overpenetrate like the 5.45mm AKS-74U would, but that's pure speculation.), but we don't have much, if any, documentation on exactly what sort of damage it does to the human body. China still widely uses it, but they're not forthcoming on this sort of thing. Especially since they mostly use their guns to slaughter unarmed civilians and don't give a shit about hitting innocent bystanders. I only know of TWO shootings with the caliber in the US; both were fatal shootings, both were used against police officers by suspects, and both were CZ-52's. Beyond that, no data whatsoever on what type of ammo was used, whether the cops wore body armor, how many times the victims got shot and in what part of the body, and what sort of damage the bullets did. So we need real-world data before we can make an actual conclusion. And unfortunately, the only real-world data I have other than "7.62x25 Tokarev kills shit dead" is that I can shoot a pig in the neck with S&B FMJ from five feet, kill it, and not have the bullet exit the pig's neck. Not exactly scientific.
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Quoted: I fail to see why, with 7.62x25mm coming out of a handgun, overpenetration would be a major issue. Unless you shoot someone in a spot without much meat and bone to stop the bullet, it's not an issue. Same as every other caliber. Heck, I've shot pigs from point-blank range with a .30-06 and not had the bullet exit. <snip> So we need real-world data before we can make an actual conclusion. And unfortunately, the only real-world data I have other than "7.62x25 Tokarev kills shit dead" is that I can shoot a pig in the neck with S&B FMJ from five feet, kill it, and not have the bullet exit the pig's neck. Not exactly scientific. Granted, this is a .30 carbine at slightly higher velocity, but it shows excessive penetration of the FMJ bullet:  On the other hand, I just looked at a 230gr FMJ out of a .45:  Looks like the extra momentum makes the .45 much worse. Even though the 7.62x25 has much higher velocity to start with, it doesn't retain that velocity in tissue. I should have thought about that. Seems like overpenetration with the 7.62x25 out of a pistol isn't going to be nearly as big of a concern than with a FMJ from a larger/heavier handgun caliber. BTW - giving anecdotal evidence of one perfect shot isn't really a compelling argument about the effectiveness of a caliber. Lots of dead Germans for sure, but I'm sure most of them were probably riddled with bullet holes. |
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I fail to see why, with 7.62x25mm coming out of a handgun, overpenetration would be a major issue. Unless you shoot someone in a spot without much meat and bone to stop the bullet, it's not an issue. Same as every other caliber. Heck, I've shot pigs from point-blank range with a .30-06 and not had the bullet exit. <snip> So we need real-world data before we can make an actual conclusion. And unfortunately, the only real-world data I have other than "7.62x25 Tokarev kills shit dead" is that I can shoot a pig in the neck with S&B FMJ from five feet, kill it, and not have the bullet exit the pig's neck. Not exactly scientific. Granted, this is a .30 carbine at slightly higher velocity, but it shows excessive penetration of the FMJ bullet: http://ammo.ar15.com/project/Misc_Images/DocGKR/M1CarbineWP.jpg On the other hand, I just looked at a 230gr FMJ out of a .45: http://www.firearmstactical.com/images/Wound%20Profiles/45ACP%20230gr%20FMJ.jpg Looks like the extra momentum makes the .45 much worse. Even though the 7.62x25 has much higher velocity to start with, it doesn't retain that velocity in tissue. I should have thought about that. Seems like overpenetration with the 7.62x25 out of a pistol isn't going to be nearly as big of a concern than with a FMJ from a larger/heavier handgun caliber. Thank you. BTW - giving anecdotal evidence of one perfect shot isn't really a compelling argument about the effectiveness of a caliber. Lots of dead Germans for sure, but I'm sure most of them were probably riddled with bullet holes. I said as much.
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I fail to see why, with 7.62x25mm coming out of a handgun, overpenetration would be a major issue. Unless you shoot someone in a spot without much meat and bone to stop the bullet, it's not an issue. Same as every other caliber. Heck, I've shot pigs from point-blank range with a .30-06 and not had the bullet exit. <snip> So we need real-world data before we can make an actual conclusion. And unfortunately, the only real-world data I have other than "7.62x25 Tokarev kills shit dead" is that I can shoot a pig in the neck with S&B FMJ from five feet, kill it, and not have the bullet exit the pig's neck. Not exactly scientific. Granted, this is a .30 carbine at slightly higher velocity, but it shows excessive penetration of the FMJ bullet: http://ammo.ar15.com/project/Misc_Images/DocGKR/M1CarbineWP.jpg On the other hand, I just looked at a 230gr FMJ out of a .45: http://www.firearmstactical.com/images/Wound%20Profiles/45ACP%20230gr%20FMJ.jpg Looks like the extra momentum makes the .45 much worse. Even though the 7.62x25 has much higher velocity to start with, it doesn't retain that velocity in tissue. I should have thought about that. Seems like overpenetration with the 7.62x25 out of a pistol isn't going to be nearly as big of a concern than with a FMJ from a larger/heavier handgun caliber. BTW - giving anecdotal evidence of one perfect shot isn't really a compelling argument about the effectiveness of a caliber. Lots of dead Germans for sure, but I'm sure most of them were probably riddled with bullet holes.
Ya think? PPsH ROF |
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Like everybody else, I think the 7.62x25 absolutely rocks faces, but the firearms that utilize this wonderful round are less than desirable. Hell I would even put cash down a Glock today if they offered one in 7.62x25! You can get them in 9x25 with a $150 aftermarket barrel. Now THAT is a cartridge to get excited about. (If you reload). Who would want to spend 700 bucks for a Glock that you can't even by off the shelf ammo for? Not only would I have to make the investment in the pistol, I would be out another several hundred bucks for a reloading press too. I could pick up another AR, or a really nice 1911 for that kind of cash. Glock, Springfield, or even Smith and Wesson, are you listening? F- the .357 sig, a 7.62x25 double stack pistol would sell like hot cakes! And when surplus ammo dries up in a year or two you'll be in the same boat as 357 Sig. |
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Like everybody else, I think the 7.62x25 absolutely rocks faces, but the firearms that utilize this wonderful round are less than desirable. Hell I would even put cash down a Glock today if they offered one in 7.62x25! You can get them in 9x25 with a $150 aftermarket barrel. Now THAT is a cartridge to get excited about. (If you reload). Who would want to spend 700 bucks for a Glock that you can't even by off the shelf ammo for? Not only would I have to make the investment in the pistol, I would be out another several hundred bucks for a reloading press too. I could pick up another AR, or a really nice 1911 for that kind of cash. Glock, Springfield, or even Smith and Wesson, are you listening? F- the .357 sig, a 7.62x25 double stack pistol would sell like hot cakes! And when surplus ammo dries up in a year or two you'll be in the same boat as 357 Sig. Yeah, that's what concerns me. I'd rather only be able to shoot it in my PPsh, CZ, and Tok with cheap, available ammo than my new "wonder-Tok" with only expensive new ammo to be found. |
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I doubt if any American manufacturer would ever make a gun in this caliber - because of all the surplus ammo on the market. There are some rounds floating around (I can't remember which ones anymore) that were specifically designed for carbines and are loaded extremely hot. While American engineering and steel could probably negate this, no manufacturer is going to take the insurance/PR risk anyways.
I have always been interested in this caliber, and almost bought the CZ-52 a while back, but I just could not get past the ergonomics of it. Instead, for (mostly) fun, I picked up a .357Sig barrel (OEM) for my G22. Runs like a charm, but the sights are way off with the .357Sig in it!
Now if only that .357 Sig ammo could be had for as cheap as the 7.62...or all ammo for that matter. 
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And when surplus ammo dries up in a year or two you'll be in the same boat as 357 Sig. Unless you buy 10-20k rounds now. That'd hold me for quite a while with something that has the blast/flash of a 7.62x25...makes me feel like I've shot twice as much ammo as other calibers. |
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I doubt if any American manufacturer would ever make a gun in this caliber - because of all the surplus ammo on the market. There are some rounds floating around (I can't remember which ones anymore) that were specifically designed for carbines and are loaded extremely hot. While American engineering and steel could probably negate this, no manufacturer is going to take the insurance/PR risk anyways. The ammo you are referring to is Bulgarian. Loaded very "hot". Most manufacturers already cover their asses for surplus ammo. Every new firearm manual I've ever read states to use only "high quality", factory NEW ammunition. Springfield Armory specifically says to not use "old" ammunition in their manuals. All this talk about the caliber has got me wanting to dig out my Cz52 again.  Sure the ergonomics aren't the best, but the damn thing was only $129 OTD!
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| Oh yeah, and did the Bulgarian and the other combloc countries have two separate loadings for their cz 52' and tt33's and ppsh41's? I think not. These handguns should function perfectly well with this so-called HOT ammo. The papers shipped with these c&r pistols are disclaimer bullshit from century,etc. Just my opinion. |
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There is, as far as research can show, no SMG-only ammo in 7.62x25mm.
And anyone who thinks "we shouldn't have new guns in this caliber because then people would shoot up all the cheap ammo and I'd have to buy S&B, Wolf, or domestic ammo that came in more options than just corrosive FMJ! Oh noes!" is being incredibly short-sighted and narrow-minded. 
Yeah. I guess we shouldn't bring in any more 5.45mm AK's then so you can have all the cheap surplus ammo you want. And it was the fault of the company that made 8mm Mauser barrels for the 1919 that the 8mm Mauser surplus ammo dried up. Oh, and we shouldn't make any more .308 rifles because it's becoming impossible to find cheap German, South African, Guatemalan, etc. surplus .308 ammo in battle packs. Geez. It's a great caliber, so let's get some MODERN, well-designed firearms to shoot it in and some domestic production of ammo (like Winchester or something.). You guys sound like Elmer fucking Fudd crying over how the existence of the Saiga-12 somehow ruins his clay shooting experience with his fancy Beretta over-under. |
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A Ruger sp101 with 9mm moon clips would suit me.
It is interesting to note that the 7.62x25 is almost dead on identical ballistcally to the 327 federal. ETA- it is sad though that the Tok is .308 whereas the 327 is .312. Never mind the bottle neck cartridge would probably lock the cylinder?
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There is, as far as research can show, no SMG-only ammo in 7.62x25mm. And anyone who thinks "we shouldn't have new guns in this caliber because then people would shoot up all the cheap ammo and I'd have to buy S&B, Wolf, or domestic ammo that came in more options than just corrosive FMJ! Oh noes!" is being incredibly short-sighted and narrow-minded.
Yeah. I guess we shouldn't bring in any more 5.45mm AK's then so you can have all the cheap surplus ammo you want. And it was the fault of the company that made 8mm Mauser barrels for the 1919 that the 8mm Mauser surplus ammo dried up. Oh, and we shouldn't make any more .308 rifles because it's becoming impossible to find cheap German, South African, Guatemalan, etc. surplus .308 ammo in battle packs. Geez. It's a great caliber, so let's get some MODERN, well-designed firearms to shoot it in and some domestic production of ammo (like Winchester or something.). You guys sound like Elmer fucking Fudd crying over how the existence of the Saiga-12 somehow ruins his clay shooting experience with his fancy Beretta over-under. Yeah no shit! Hello, if it became as popular as 9mm, it would stay cheap too. It's not like the Russians that produce the cheap ass Brown Bear and Wolf ammo wouldn't start making that en-mass too! |
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Has anyone tried it in a PPSH? Yep, lots of fun. Here is my recent ammo shipment too. All cases are 7.62x25 - still waiting on 1 that wasn't sent. I think this along with my current stash should last the rest of my life. Too bad there are no modern handguns that shoot this with 15rd+ magazines. http://img230.imageshack.us/img230/7531/cimg4926.jpg http://img17.imageshack.us/img17/4700/cimg4938.jpg http://img26.imageshack.us/img26/3001/cimg5123.jpg Wow but you don't prefer the stick magazines to the drum? Yeah they seem to work much better. Most of the drums I have took some tweaking and some just don't work reliably. The stick mags all work flawless. How is the recoil? Have you compared it to an MP40? |
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And when surplus ammo dries up in a year or two you'll be in the same boat as 357 Sig. Unless you buy 10-20k rounds now. That'd hold me for quite a while with something that has the blast/flash of a 7.62x25...makes me feel like I've shot twice as much ammo as other calibers. heh, true. |
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There is, as far as research can show, no SMG-only ammo in 7.62x25mm. And anyone who thinks "we shouldn't have new guns in this caliber because then people would shoot up all the cheap ammo and I'd have to buy S&B, Wolf, or domestic ammo that came in more options than just corrosive FMJ! Oh noes!" is being incredibly short-sighted and narrow-minded.
Sigh. 7.62x25 doesn't offer anything that 9mm doesn't in a pistol. It's only advantage right now is that milsurplus is cheap. When that dries up, very few people are going to buy new pistols to shoot an exotic caliber that costs more to buy than 9mm. So producing a pistol and magazines for the strange dimensions of this cartridge, in the long run, just isn't a smart business decision. A new pistol would be nice to have, but it isn't going to happen. |
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There is, as far as research can show, no SMG-only ammo in 7.62x25mm. And anyone who thinks "we shouldn't have new guns in this caliber because then people would shoot up all the cheap ammo and I'd have to buy S&B, Wolf, or domestic ammo that came in more options than just corrosive FMJ! Oh noes!" is being incredibly short-sighted and narrow-minded.
Sigh. 7.62x25 doesn't offer anything that 9mm doesn't in a pistol. It's only advantage right now is that milsurplus is cheap. When that dries up, very few people are going to buy new pistols to shoot an exotic caliber that costs more to buy than 9mm. So producing a pistol and magazines for the strange dimensions of this cartridge, in the long run, just isn't a smart business decision. A new pistol would be nice to have, but it isn't going to happen. Ummm... about that. 7.62x25 does offer more than 9mm depending on what you are looking for. If you want to make it through a level II kevlar vest it's the gun for you, and with JHP's it is a very viable self defense handgun. Strange dimensions? I love you you back up your statements with facts....oh wait you don't. 7.62x25 is less strange than .357sig (neck contacts bullets in 7.62), and mags aren't a problem if a G20 mag fist the round. |
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There is, as far as research can show, no SMG-only ammo in 7.62x25mm. And anyone who thinks "we shouldn't have new guns in this caliber because then people would shoot up all the cheap ammo and I'd have to buy S&B, Wolf, or domestic ammo that came in more options than just corrosive FMJ! Oh noes!" is being incredibly short-sighted and narrow-minded.
Sigh. 7.62x25 doesn't offer anything that 9mm doesn't in a pistol. It's only advantage right now is that milsurplus is cheap. When that dries up, very few people are going to buy new pistols to shoot an exotic caliber that costs more to buy than 9mm. So producing a pistol and magazines for the strange dimensions of this cartridge, in the long run, just isn't a smart business decision. A new pistol would be nice to have, but it isn't going to happen. Ummm... about that. 7.62x25 does offer more than 9mm depending on what you are looking for. If you want to make it through a level II kevlar vest it's the gun for you, and with JHP's it is a very viable self defense handgun. Strange dimensions? I love you you back up your statements with facts....oh wait you don't. 7.62x25 is less strange than .357sig (neck contacts bullets in 7.62), and mags aren't a problem if a G20 mag fist the round. Yeah, strange dimensions as in it won't fit in a g20 mag or a Para p16 (designed for the 10mm) because I tried last night and posted the results. Try reading the thread first. 7.62x25 is marginally better at penetrating kevlar than 9mm with lead core bullets. Since you can't get any steel core bullets there is no point. You can shoot the saboted rounds that Reed sells but accuracy is bad. I know because I've shot them through a Tok and Cz52. |