I used to make 4140 & 4150, now I make Cu alloys.
Joined:
Sep 2004
Posts:
4245
EE: 100% (8)
OH, USA
Posted: 8/8/2012 7:09:24 AM EDT
|
The scores for the matches at my club are just the sum of times + penalties. I have suggested the match director normalize the scores, just because that is common practice. He is baulking at it. I understand the benefit of normalizing if the match director wants all of the stages to have equal weight and one stage has a par time of 200 seconds and another has a par time of 60 seconds. If the stages are fairly equal in par times, is there a benefit to normalization? and What other reasons are there for normalizing stage scores? |
Never follow anyone shorter than you; they can walk under things that you can't.
|
The "normalized" Time-Plus scoring calculation is performed using the following procedure (from IMA SMM3G rules):
6.1Stage score will be based on straight time plus penalties. ... 6.2Stage Points . 6.2.1Stage points will be calculated separately for each equipment division. . 6.2.2Stage points will be awarded to participants according to their stage time relative to the fastest time on that stage, using the equation STAGE_POINTS = ( FASTEST_TIME / PARTICIPANT_TIME ) x 100. . 6.2.3Total points accumulated for all stages will determine the event placement by division. . 6.2.4Highest score wins. This is the de facto standard scoring method for all Time-Plus scored 3-Gun matches you will come across. Running your matches using the same scoring system would ensure your participants are properly prepared to shoot in any match in the nation - for me this would be the most compelling reason for adopting this scoring method. The primary rationale behind using this method is that it ensures each stage has equal weight. Imagine a match with a mixture of fast pistol/shotgun stages (typical duration 10-20 seconds), and a few long-range rifle stages (typical duration 60-120 seconds). If a match is scored using Straight Time as you do today, clearly the match winner will always be the guy who had the best long-range rifle skills - folks could really excel with pistol or shotgun and yet their superiority would be dwarfed by the longer rifle stages. It basically devalues the shorter-range guns and the faster stages... you end up with a rifle match that also has a few pistol and shotgun stages just for fun. Another benefit of "normalized" Time-Plus is that one trashed stage does not totally kill your whole match. This is particularly important for newbies, who can get very discsouraged under a Straight Time regime. The biggest concern with adopting Time-Plus scoring is getting a good scoring program. Luckily they are available, or a simple Excel spreadsheet can be produced to perform the task. Let me know if you need some links. |
I used to make 4140 & 4150, now I make Cu alloys.
Joined:
Sep 2004
Posts:
4246
EE: 100% (8)
OH, USA
|
I calculated the normalized scores for the last match and for places 1st through 12th, the only places that changed were 4th and 5th. One stage averaged 54 seconds for the group and the other 2 stages averaged 74 seconds for the group. In this case there was not a big enough weight difference to make a difference between raw and normalized. |
Never follow anyone shorter than you; they can walk under things that you can't.
|
Originally Posted By Ironmaker:
I calculated the normalized scores for the last match and for places 1st through 12th, the only places that changed were 4th and 5th. One stage averaged 54 seconds for the group and the other 2 stages averaged 74 seconds for the group. In this case there was not a big enough weight difference to make a difference between raw and normalized. Indeed, for matches where the average time for each stage is similar, then the places may not change much. The problem, of course, is that this forces you to design all your stages to have a comparable average time. The outcome will be stage designs that quickly become stale and boring. You also risk playing to the particular strengths of a few individuals, who then tend to put up resistance to any change that puts their dominance at risk. This can be frustrating for others who maybe have a different balance of skills... making people feel like the deck is stacked against them by the "good old boys" is a sure way to turn off newbies. I would strongly encourage you to go the extra mile and use "normalized" Time-Plus approach. It is a proven successful scoring method and is one of the reasons people are being drawn into 3-Gun. |
I used to make 4140 & 4150, now I make Cu alloys.
Joined:
Sep 2004
Posts:
4248
EE: 100% (8)
OH, USA
|
Originally Posted By Ironmaker:
I lost the argument with the match director over the scoring. He is going to stick with raw time + penalty scoring. Oh well. Lobby the other competitors - present them with the arguments and ask for their support, and maybe the MD will change his mind. There are a surprising number of inflexible, closed minded people in this sport, but eventually if you make enough of a PITA of yourself you can get your own way. That is my modus operandi anyway. 
|
|
Originally Posted By Ironmaker:
I lost the argument with the match director over the scoring. He is going to stick with raw time + penalty scoring. Oh well. Offer to be the score keeper if it matters. How many people are shooting the match? I personally think Normalized scoring sucks when there isn't a large pool of people in every division; unless they also post results over all with points calculated based on the fastest shooter regardless of division. Total time is easier to compare across divisions without doing a lot of extra math. |
I used to make 4140 & 4150, now I make Cu alloys.
Joined:
Sep 2004
Posts:
4250
EE: 100% (8)
OH, USA
|
Originally Posted By SinistralRifleman: Originally Posted By Ironmaker: I lost the argument with the match director over the scoring. He is going to stick with raw time + penalty scoring. Oh well. Offer to be the score keeper if it matters. How many people are shooting the match? I personally think Normalized scoring sucks when there isn't a large pool of people in every division; unless they also post results over all with points calculated based on the fastest shooter regardless of division. Total time is easier to compare across divisions without doing a lot of extra math. For the monthly matches, it is an odd setup. There is a pistol/rifle stage and just a pistol stage. There are a lot of older shooters who just shoot the pistol stage. There are about 30 shooters in the stock division for pistol. There are typically 15 shooters that shoot both the rifle/pistol and the pistol only in the main optic rifle division. Here are the scores from an earlier match - http://www.eriecountycl.com/pdf_files/ActionShooting-2012-July.pdf The match that I really think he should normalize is an upcoming 3 gun match for just cops. There are 3 stages - rifle, pistol, shotgun and there are 67 shooters signed up. Everyone is in the same division, the expectation is they will be shooting their issued guns. Here are the scores from last year. http://www.eriecountycl.com/pdf_files/Andrew-Dunn-Match-Results-2011.pdf |
Never follow anyone shorter than you; they can walk under things that you can't.