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Posted: 8/27/2024 11:22:41 PM EDT
[Last Edit: dana][Edited]
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i used to own and shoot a cheap inline muzzle loader but that was years ago. Today i saw Montana has a late hunting season for TRADITIONAL muzzle loaders. No inline, no belted rounds, no optics or pyredex pellets. I might have the opertunity to borrow a blackpowder rifle for free. But have no idea what i should look for in choosing one. Do things like barrel length and set triggers matter for elk hunting? what type of iron sghts work best? what range limitations am i looking at using a muzzel loader hunting? Sorry, this all just popped up today. |
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The 'traditional' rules that you wrote are basically the same as what we have in Idaho, the one we have that you didn't write was no 209 primers. You can only use use percussion caps or flintlock here. And magnified optics are a no go here. I use goex ffg for my 54 caliber, you can use pyrodex, just not pellets. I don't like pyrodex too dirty, and I get better ballistics with goex. If you're borrowing a rifle from someone local you're probably going to be set up from the get go. What you'll want to do is get some help for your first firings which you'll want to do before going out in the field. Without knowing the caliber, all I can say is that my .54 round ball in front of a stout load of BP is certainly able to take an elk. My longest shot to date was about 70 yards. As far as set trigger, my rifle has them but when not setting the rear the front trigger is about 10lb, so as a first hunt, I'd just set the front trigger. Buck fever and all. I have peep sights on my smoke pole, not traditional, but legal. Good luck and good shooting. |
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Originally Posted By dana: i used to own and shoot a cheap inline muzzle loader so i am not a complete idiot. But today i saw Montana has a late season for TRADITIONAL muzzle loaders. No inline, no belted rounds, no optics or pyredex pellets. I might have the possibility to borrow a rifle for free. But have no idea what i should look for in choosing one. do things like barrel length and set triggers matter for elk hunting? what type of sights work best? what range limitations am i looking at? Sorry, this all just popped up today. That is a very personal opinion orientated question. I'll try to address them one by one as best I can. Barrel length is similar to smokeless rifles. It matters, but not to a giant degree. Generally you are going to want them a little longer than you are used to for more velocity, and less muzzle blast. A 16" barrel rifle with 100 grains of blackpowder wouldn't be very pleasant. Barrels historically have varied a ton. In European Jaeger rifles, 20" wasn't unheard of, although closer to 28" or 30" seemed to be more common. They were all over though, no real standard. In America, longrifles were just that, long. Barrels were rarely under 36". Earlier rifles were very often 40"-46". I've seen pictures of original rifles with barrels over 50". In the 1800's closer to the end of the mountain man era, the style rifles were a little shorter. Hawken rifles were closer to that 34-36" barrel area, but some longer barrel ones exist. Triggers is completely a personal choice. I LOVE set trigger so much. I wish I could have them on every single rifle, including modern. Some people don't like them, and that is fine too. I like double set trigger, which has a rear trigger to set it, and the front trigger is the actual trigger. The benefit of this is you don't have to set them. You can pull the front trigger and get a normal, perfectly usable trigger pull. If you want to, you can set the trigger, and get a pull measured in ounces. I very rarely set a trigger when hunting. I almost always set the trigger if target shooting. The best sights do depend on some things, including eyesight. In general I feel the best option for Montana elk hunting is going to be a set of aperture sights. A rear peep sight, coupled with a globe front sight is a really accurate combo. They even make a crosshair insert for the globe front sight, so it's not that much different than shooting a 1x scope. A lot of the time I like a rear peep sight coupled with a blade front sight. This is a little less precise, but it is more usable in less than ideal conditions. Aperture sights are traditional, but they were less common than open iron sights. A lot of original rifles have tiny sets of dovetailed sights, an iron rear with a notch, and a blade front. They seem less than ideal, but that's what they were. Most people today that run open sights on longrifles use much larger sights, more typical of what we are used to today with a square notched rear and a nice flat front blade. Range limitations is really about you the shooter. There are good shooters out there that can take 300 yard shots with traditional muzzleloaders, but it takes practice to find that load that works good, and learn how to shoot it. In general it is an inside 150 yard game for most people. You didn't ask, but you will notice in the regulations they do not allow anything other than percussion caps, musket caps, flintlock, wheel lock, or match lock. You can forget about wheel lock and match lock, you are not likely to come across either unless you intentionally go out to find one. I will also recommend you avoid musket caps, they are basically just big percussion caps, but you have to be careful which one you get, they don't have any real benefits, and the big one is they are very expensive. So your two real choices are percussion cap or flintlock. My opinion is unless you are going to spend $1000, don't bother with a flintlock. All of the cheap flintlocks I've ever shot from TC, Lyman, CVA, Pedersoli, etc. all sucked. The designs of them are poor, and the quality is worse. If you are going to spend $1000, such as a Kibler kit, then definitely consider a fllintlock. A well designed flintlock is a joy to shoot. If you don't want to do that, than I would say stick to a percussion cap. They are much more tolerant of manufacturing defects, and there's not much design to them. It's just a cap on a cone that gets hit with the hammer. Percussion caps are harder to find and more expensive than they were 5 years ago, but they are still the easiest to find option out there, and they are not horribly expensive. My preference is for CCI #11 magnum caps. Percussion caps also work with Pyrodex and 777. A flintlock only works with real blackpowder. Real black powder is the easiest to ignite and the most reliable powder anyway. One of the big things to think about when choosing a rifle is what kind of bullet do you want to shoot. If you are trying to extend your range as much as possible, you may want to consider some kind of lead conical bullet. A common brand people use is No Excuses, they are bore sized bullets that expand on firing to grip the rifling. Despite the "no sabot" requirement, what they really mean is no plastic. Paper patching and cloth patching is still legal as long as the bullet or ball is lead. Also felt and fiber wads under the ball or bullet are legal. Some people do really good with a paper patched bullet, however, that is a little more of a learning curve to figure out paper patching. If you want to shoot conical like this you will be best served with a barrel that has shallower, more modern style rifling, and with a faster twist rate. A lot of that depends on caliber, which I'll get to next. If you want to go with a round ball, you can shoot them bare, but the vast majority of people shoot them with a cloth patch. Despite being a sabot, cloth patched round balls are legal. A round ball is generally going to be more accurate from a barrel that has a deeper rifling and a slower twist rate. Caliber is another consideration. Montana has very lax restrictions, all they require is that it is 45 caliber minimum. A 45 caliber shooting a big conical could be a great choice for Elk. Think of it as a muzzleloading 45-70. You would basically want a 45-70 barrel with shallow rifling and a 1:18 to 1:28 twist. With a round ball, I would recommend going bigger. 50 caliber can work, but I'm a big fan of 54 caliber. There's nothing wrong going bigger than that either. I can't give you very good recommendations on rifles unless you can tell me what more specifically you want. I will say one of the least expensive ways to do it would be a TC Hawken 50 caliber, add peep sights, and shoot something like the TC Maxiball. |
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Thank you guys this is really helpful. As i said i have messed with a inline BP rifle years ago so i have a little knowledge. Also i am not sure i will be confident enough with iron sights on a BP rifle to shot at game without much practice. So this might not happen this year. But when i saw thar MT has a BP season it peaked my interest. There are about 10 BP rifles that i might have access to that are part of an estate. It depends on how the family feels. But i would imagine there is fair chance I could use one unless someone else is interested in it. I remember all are percussion cap except one is flintlock. There is also boxes full of supplies, many new in the box. |
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Originally Posted By dana: Thank you guys this is really helpful. As i said i have messed with a inline BP rifle years ago so i have a little knowledge. Also i am not sure i will be confident enough with iron sights on a BP rifle to shot at game without much practice. So this might not happen this year. But when i saw thar MT has a BP season it peaked my interest. There are about 10 BP rifles that i might have access to that are part of an estate. It depends on how the family feels. But i would imagine there is fair chance I could use one unless someone else is interested in it. I remember all are percussion cap except one is flintlock. There is also boxes full of supplies, many new in the box. I wouldn't worry about that. It is what it is. If you are comfortable to 50 yard with iron sights, that's still better than a bow. You will more than likely find 100 yard shooting is not as hard as you think with a set of good aperture sights. |
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