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Posted: 7/14/2026 5:16:58 AM EDT
[Last Edit: NotoriousBRT][Edited]
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Bought a new 1873 saddle ring carbine in .357/.38 a few weeks back. Took it to the range and it's shooting about 13 inches high a 100 yards. It has the factory ladder sight and it shoots to the same point whether you use the sight in it's flipped down position or the ladder in it's lowest setting (which I figure is what it's supposed to do). No complaints about the group size. Even though I have shot many open sights in a long time, I was able to keep 5 shots in 3 inches consistently. It's just incredibly high. Is this a common thing with these rifles? It occurred to me that the sights might be calibrated to .38 Special, but I would be surprised if there would be that much difference at 100 yards. |
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The OP talks of 38sp so I will assume this is a 38/357 chambering . Sounds like the ammo that is shooting high would be 357 . What bullet weight? It stands to reason common 357 bullets of 110,125 or 158 are going to hit with some difference in point of impact. Some combination of different bullet weights and messing about with adjustments on rear sight should get some results. Three inch groups at 100 is some good work with irons , keep at it! |
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Yes, it's .357/.38, I'll add that to the OP. I was shooting 158 grain Federal JSPs. I've got some other bullet weights laying on the shelf I'll try in it next time I go shoot it. |
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Originally Posted By NotoriousBRT: Bought a new 1873 saddle ring carbine in .357/.38 a few weeks back. Took it to the range and it's shooting about 13 inches high a 100 yards. It has the factory ladder sight and it shoots to the same point whether you use the sight in it's flipped down position or the ladder in it's lowest setting (which I figure is what it's supposed to do). No complaints about the group size. Even though I have shot many open sights in a long time, I was able to keep 5 shots in 3 inches consistently. It's just incredibly high. Is this a common thing with these rifles? It occurred to me that the sights might be calibrated to .38 Special, but I would be surprised if there would be that much difference at 100 yards. From my limited experience, I know there is a large diffence between 38 Special and 357 Magnum when fired from a rifle. The 357 bullet takes on real rifle characteristics, whereas, the 38 "runs out of gas" while in the barrel and is much slower. The 38 is still faster but the 357 will surprise you with its high velocity. You haven't provided enough information to run a ballistics check on the trajectories. Do you have any clue where the sights are zeroed for either cartridge? Any idea of muzzle velocity from your rifle? While making a few guesses, I was able to get a 6" to 8" difference pretty easily, with one run showing 12" high. Combined with the above, 13" is not out of the question. |
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Originally Posted By Trollslayer: From my limited experience, I know there is a large diffence between 38 Special and 357 Magnum when fired from a rifle. The 357 bullet takes on real rifle characteristics, whereas, the 38 "runs out of gas" while in the barrel and is much slower. The 38 is still faster but the 357 will surprise you with its high velocity. You haven't provided enough information to run a ballistics check on the trajectories. Do you have any clue where the sights are zeroed for either cartridge? Any idea of muzzle velocity from your rifle? While making a few guesses, I was able to get a 6" to 8" difference pretty easily, with one run showing 12" high. Combined with the above, 13" is not out of the question. |
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Originally Posted By NotoriousBRT: I don't have a chronograph yet, but I did a bit of research on the ammo I used being fired from rifles and my best assumption is it's going 1800-1900 fps. The factory ladder sights don't have typical adjustment like buckhorn sights do, they have a down position and then the ladder adjustments. As to what the factory settings are, I can find no hard information. The few Miroku/Winchester reviews out there seem to indicate most people are getting close to POA/POI from their rifles out of the box with .357 loads at 50 to 100 yards. I bought a used special edition 16" trapper Mirokuchester 1873. Has the same sights as yours. When I finally find time to shoot it I'll report back. My $0.02 is that the different sights that come with these versions are retarded. No need for graduated sighting out to 10 billion yards with that length of barrel firing a pistol caliber cartridge. |
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Originally Posted By ValDurant: I bought a used special edition 16" trapper Mirokuchester 1873. Has the same sights as yours. When I finally find time to shoot it I'll report back. My $0.02 is that the different sights that come with these versions are retarded. No need for graduated sighting out to 10 billion yards with that length of barrel firing a pistol caliber cartridge. Originally Posted By ValDurant: Originally Posted By NotoriousBRT: I don't have a chronograph yet, but I did a bit of research on the ammo I used being fired from rifles and my best assumption is it's going 1800-1900 fps. The factory ladder sights don't have typical adjustment like buckhorn sights do, they have a down position and then the ladder adjustments. As to what the factory settings are, I can find no hard information. The few Miroku/Winchester reviews out there seem to indicate most people are getting close to POA/POI from their rifles out of the box with .357 loads at 50 to 100 yards. I bought a used special edition 16" trapper Mirokuchester 1873. Has the same sights as yours. When I finally find time to shoot it I'll report back. My $0.02 is that the different sights that come with these versions are retarded. No need for graduated sighting out to 10 billion yards with that length of barrel firing a pistol caliber cartridge. |
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Originally Posted By ValDurant: I bought a used special edition 16" trapper Mirokuchester 1873. Has the same sights as yours. When I finally find time to shoot it I'll report back. My $0.02 is that the different sights that come with these versions are retarded. No need for graduated sighting out to 10 billion yards with that length of barrel firing a pistol caliber cartridge. Took mine to the range yesterday. Only an indoor range out to 25 yards, but it shot like 4-5" high with Federal JSP 158 gr .357. Dead center, but high. If it was zero'd at 100 yards, it should be about 1" high at 25 yards. My guess is these blade and notch sights are set up for something like 200-300 yards. I put a Marbles tang sight in. I'm going to drift out the barrel rear sight and replace it with a blank that can hold my apertures. |
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Originally Posted By ValDurant: Took mine to the range yesterday. Only an indoor range out to 25 yards, but it shot like 4-5" high with Federal JSP 158 gr .357. Dead center, but high. If it was zero'd at 100 yards, it should be about 1" high at 25 yards. My guess is these blade and notch sights are set up for something like 200-300 yards. I put a Marbles tang sight in. I'm going to drift out the barrel rear sight and replace it with a blank that can hold my apertures. |
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Originally Posted By NotoriousBRT: That's exactly what mine did. I punched some rough velocity numbers in Strelok and it looks like the sights would be dead on at about 275 yards at the low setting, give or take. If I can find some brass plate the right thickness I think I'll make a taller front blade for mine and try to get my factory sight to zero at 100. If I don't, I guess I'll be putting a Marble on too. The Marbles tang is great if you have astigmatism like me. |
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Attached File Same issue with my 1873 until I installed a taller front sight. |
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Easy fix if you have a dovetail front sight. Buy the Marbles front and be done with it. Be prepared to slowly file and test fit the sight a fair amount. Don’t over shoot the trimming on the dovetail of the front sight. I had the same problem with a 73 US Marshall from Cimarron but they cast the front sight blade as part of the barrel band. 15-17” over the sights at 50 yards. They had no fix and sent the gun back to me with a test fire target that looked like it was shit at 7 yards with no explanations. Thankfully Davidson’s, the distributor, took it back and gave me credit. I bought the Marlin when they came back out. Later bought a Winchester 92 in .44-40 to scratch the Winchester itch. |
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Originally Posted By nhsport: The OP talks of 38sp so I will assume this is a 38/357 chambering . Sounds like the ammo that is shooting high would be 357 . What bullet weight? It stands to reason common 357 bullets of 110,125 or 158 are going to hit with some difference in point of impact. Some combination of different bullet weights and messing about with adjustments on rear sight should get some results. Three inch groups at 100 is some good work with irons , keep at it! All of this. Shoot different loads, from different manufacturers, with different projectile types. I had an 1892 clone that was wide open and low right with .38 LSWC, but was a laser beam with hot 125 gr JSP .357. |
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Originally Posted By SteelonSteel: Val if you aren’t ever going to use that Winchester take off ladder sight shoot me a PM. I’d be tempted to replace my buckhorn. I am not a buck horn fan! Just bought a used 1873 Octagon Case Hardened Sporter in 357/ 38. Had been looking for a while and finally found one . This one is almost too nice to be a shooter . Haven't shot it but the Buckhorn has to go, plans are a Marble tang sight . |
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Originally Posted By Morlawn66: Just bought a used 1873 Octagon Case Hardened Sporter in 357/ 38. Had been looking for a while and finally found one . This one is almost too nice to be a shooter . Haven't shot it but the Buckhorn has to go, plans are a Marble tang sight . Short of glass that’s going to be your best accuracy bet for sure! So far I’ve used flat top rear sights and the more modern receiver peep sights from Skinner. I don’t like the Skinner aesthetics though. If one doesn’t care about aesthetics it is a good enough sight. The 73 and 92 certainly have their limitations though for receiver options. Way better to do what you’re doing. |
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Originally Posted By SteelonSteel: Short of glass that’s going to be your best accuracy bet for sure! So far I’ve used flat top rear sights and the more modern receiver peep sights from Skinner. I don’t like the Skinner aesthetics though. If one doesn’t care about aesthetics it is a good enough sight. The 73 and 92 certainly have their limitations though for receiver options. Way better to do what you’re doing. Have a Rossi 92 that I'm waiting for a tang sight from StevesGuns to be delivered any day now . Have the old man eyes going for me . Bought it 10 years ago and didn't shoot it until this summer for some reason . |
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Originally Posted By Morlawn66: Have a Rossi 92 that I'm waiting for a tang sight from StevesGuns to be delivered any day now . Have the old man eyes going for me . Bought it 10 years ago and didn't shoot it until this summer for some reason . Originally Posted By Morlawn66: Originally Posted By SteelonSteel: Short of glass that’s going to be your best accuracy bet for sure! So far I’ve used flat top rear sights and the more modern receiver peep sights from Skinner. I don’t like the Skinner aesthetics though. If one doesn’t care about aesthetics it is a good enough sight. The 73 and 92 certainly have their limitations though for receiver options. Way better to do what you’re doing. Have a Rossi 92 that I'm waiting for a tang sight from StevesGuns to be delivered any day now . Have the old man eyes going for me . Bought it 10 years ago and didn't shoot it until this summer for some reason . I know the feeling of old man issues with the eyes being the biggest obstacle. I got a cataract in my dominant eye. The rear sight notch view gets distorted and I’ll see two left inside edges of the notch many times and not sure which to use to put the front sight in the center with. I had gotten the Marlin 94 from Ruger first in .357 and had a bad time working up a load with my cast. I had trouble with my eyes and some of the cast bullets, plus I finally figured out that I couldn’t use that 165 gr bullet that slow. I only was sure once I temporarily mounted a scope. With the scope I got the load sorted out and have yet to swap the Skinner sight back on. Second wannabe cowboy rifle is a Miroku Winchester 92, what I originally wanted for as a .357 but had settled on the Ruger Marlin. This time it came around but in .44-40 caliber and I really like it. Still casting for it. I did swap out to a flat top rear sight. it’s a bit too modern looking appearance wise but it works better for me than the buck horns. I like receiver sights like on the older 336 and 94s but shy away from the tang mounts for a field gun. I have one tang mount sight on a .38-55 Hiwall. It suits that gun for me, |
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Just plug a 38 special 158 grain moving 750 fps with iron sights about 1/2 inch above the center of the bore 100 yard zero, then use that zero with a 357 Mag 158 grain moving 1250 fps. The 357 will hit a lot higher. In a carbine weighing 7 1/2 pounds shooting pistol power stuff your not going to get much barrel rise in the slower vs faster to factor out. But it’s significant. 1873 sales are like 87% plus cowboy action shooting types that shoot 110 grain 38s at 600 fps from their pistols and use the same ammo in their carbines. I was at a match about a month ago- Shooting 140 grains with 3.0 grains of bullseye at around 680 fps from my 6.5 inch revolvers, they run about 850 in my carbine- It was my first time there and the match director talked to me about downloading my ammo because it was too spicy and could be rough on the targets. It’s the wimpiest 38/357 rounds i have ever loaded. Maybe the steel should be more than five yards away… And make hitting shit be the challenge vs crazy, bizarre patterns / order you have to shoot the targets in being the challenge. |
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