Armory Sponsor
Which 9mm bullet weight for Steel Challenge? (Page 1 of 3)
Posted: 4/13/2026 6:56:06 PM EDT
|
I shot a Steel Challenge match over the weekend. I think the last time I shot an SC match was back in 2010…maybe. I normally like 147 grainers for IDPA and USPSA. In my opinion, the 147’s give more of a straight push back recoil-wise. The 115 grainers seem to make the gun more muzzle flippy. I can’t remember if I have ever loaded 124 grainers. I looked through my collection of pro-jo’s last night. I have a box of 500 count Hornady HAP 124’s. So that would be a good start. My usual load with the 147’s is 3.5 grains of TiteGroup and a Winchester Small Pistol primer, with an OAL around 1.15ish. This is usually fired through a Beretta 92. |
|
I’ve played with different bullets and loads for the same reasons and ultimately settled on just using the same thing with the same gun, regardless of the shooting discipline. Steel challenge is much more about the draw and vision than recoil impulse for me. I load very specific steel challenge loads for PCC, however, but that is literally all I shoot with that gun. Those are 115’s over 2.5 gr of N310. |
Slow is smooth. Smooth is fast.
|
Originally Posted By sommere54: I’ve played with different bullets and loads for the same reasons and ultimately settled on just using the same thing with the same gun, regardless of the shooting discipline. Steel challenge is much more about the draw and vision than recoil impulse for me. I load very specific steel challenge loads for PCC, however, but that is literally all I shoot with that gun. Those are 115’s over 2.5 gr of N310. They tell me now that the range is open to the public. So whether they keep the Steel Challenge stages set up all the time….I don’t know. But still 16 years later, those 10 inch plates at 18 yards on the Pendulum stage are still humbling: Attached File I went to the Hodgdon reloading data website. They are showing CFE Pistol with a 124 grainer: Attached File 4.9 to 5.5 grains. As a side note…. While I was packing the car Saturday morning, I noticed I was out of reloads, so I had to use Remington 147 grain factory stuff (green and white box). It was set for 6 stages. So I quickly grabbed a couple of other boxes…Winchester factory stuff. I got to the last stage and cracked open that one Winchester box…. Black Talons….wouldn’t ya know it!  I can always crank out about 200 of the 124’s/CFE Pistol rounds, and try shooting them for groups on those 10 inch plates at 18 yards. I also have a brass MiHec mould for 9mm that I have never used. It has the hollow point pins. Maybe I can finally get around to shake and bake powder coating??? |
|
Originally Posted By RWEIII: Having done the same and I pretty much stick to my titegroup 147 load for everything from 43x to AR9. I am picturing a 4 way accuracy and recoil feel test in my future: 124 HAPS vs. 147 FMJ’s vs. Mihec PC’ed HP vs. Mihec PC’ed “flat nose” |
|
This is just Steel Challenge. Static steel. It does not fall. All you gotta do is knock the paint off. Here are a couple of old videos of me just practicing by myself on a Steel Challenge stage called Smoke and Hope:  Beretta M9A3 vs. Smoke And Hope  Beretta 92G Elite LTT vs. Smoke And Hope Attached File There will be a designated stop plate on each stage. There are a total of 8 for real SC stages. On 7 of those stages you get 5 attempts or strings. They take your 4 best times and add them together. The 8th stage is called Outer Limits and it has 2 or 3 boxes that you shoot from. You have to move between the two boxes while on the clock. And you only shoot at the steel targets while inside a box. You shoot 4 strings on Outer Limits. They keep your best 3 times. So in all….if I math’ed it correctly, 31 string times get added together to calculate your final score. Back in 2007, Max Michel was the first to break 80 seconds (with a centerfire pistol drawn from a holster). Sig Arms and Outdoor Channel gave him a check for $30,000. Breaking that 80 second mark is akin to running a sub 4 minute mile. Or say a sub 10 second 100 meter dash. |
Joined:
Dec 2022
Posts:
1455
EE: 100% (42)
SC, USA
| I've only shot SC a handful of times, but I believe there is no power factor requirement, so no need for the heavier bullets. For dedicated ammo I think I'd tend toward lighter bullets... cheaper, a little faster, and should still run the gun loaded pretty light. |
|
Your timer will tell you which bullet and load to use. Faster = better. Is there a minimum power factor for Steel Challenge, I do not recall. Is it just any centerfire handgun? My recollection is there is a power factor requirement but I am likely confusing it with USPSA (which I was involved with at the same time). I used to shoot them both with full-powered ammo as some sort of practice for handgun self defense, not as just "a game". Many were just there for the game, and indeed it was a lot of fun. |
|
No power factor for SC. I have encountered two schools of thought for loads; 1. Heavy bullet + fast powder (Light load) = less felt recoil 2. Light bullet + appropriate powder (Light load) = the bullet moves faster, the slide cycles faster |
N&MEM, SSDR, NRA Life Member
Epstein Scalia did not kill himself.
Gun control is literally Hitler.
Trump's actions? Watergate does not bother me, does your conscience bother you?
Gun control is literally Hitler.
Trump's actions? Watergate does not bother me, does your conscience bother you?
|
Originally Posted By SteveOak: No power factor for SC. I have encountered two schools of thought for loads; 1. Heavy bullet + fast powder (Light load) = less felt recoil 2. Light bullet + appropriate powder (Light load) = the bullet moves faster, the slide cycles faster Yes! Correct about the no power factor thing in Steel Challenge. 15 years ago, I had heard about Open division shooters using 90 and 100 grain bullets normally meant for the .380, for Steel Challenge. The other advantage beside just the speed, was more room in the case for more powder. More powder meant more gas to work the compensator. Which equalled s flatter shooting gun. Which meant the dot got back into view quicker, which got placed on the next plate sooner. |
|
I decapped and wet tumbled some brass: Attached File So maybe next week, I can make it to the range for some accuracy testing with the 124’s. It has been a few years since I wet tumbled. So I had to google the recipe. I threw in a splash of Armor All wash and wax and a bottle cap full of Lemishine. I probably should have put a squirt of Dawn dish washing liquid in there too. |
Global Warming Hoax Skeptic before it was cool
Joined:
Jun 2007
Posts:
72550
EE: 100% (1)
WA, USA
|
Originally Posted By WeimaranerDad: I decapped and wet tumbled some brass: https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/369122/IMG_6386_jpeg-3748200.JPG So maybe next week, I can make it to the range for some accuracy testing with the 124's. It has been a few years since I wet tumbled. So I had to google the recipe. I threw in a splash of Armor All wash and wax and a bottle cap full of Lemishine. I probably should have put a squirt of Dawn dish washing liquid in there too. |
Selling agent for Algores carbon credit scam.
Shooting and Reloading, one hobby feeds the other.
Shooting and Reloading, one hobby feeds the other.
|
Originally Posted By dryflash3: Ya, don't leave out the Dawn. DAGNABBIT! I knew it. Argghh… I think that MidwayUSA also has those special mesh or screen caps for the FART that make rinsing easier. I just used my hand to cover the opening when I like decanted the soapy water out of the drum. |
Global Warming Hoax Skeptic before it was cool
Joined:
Jun 2007
Posts:
72552
EE: 100% (1)
WA, USA
|
Originally Posted By dryflash3: I just use the bucket and separator meant for dry media. Yeah, I have one of those bingo ball roller squirrel cage looking things with the cover. And the handles that you crank. That did a pretty good job of slinging the pins and water out of the cases. I ran my dehumidifier first. I want to say the hygrometer was reading about 70% when I first started decapping the brass. When I spread the brass out on the towel, it was reading 40%. |
|
I think most of the guys I knew were using light bullets that were definitely sub minor or right on the line. Some of them got really weird (Johnny Lim) but most of them just found a load in that power range that was 100% reliable. I don't know the spring rates but a couple of the guns I played with felt super lightly sprung. My production load for a while was 4.0 grains of titegroup with a 124 and it turns out that was sub minor in my Sig . I'd just use whatever bullet you like already or can get cheap.
|
BikerNut:
Normal people like motorcycles. Real people like motorcycles.
People who don't like motorcycles are just... weird.
Normal people like motorcycles. Real people like motorcycles.
People who don't like motorcycles are just... weird.
|
My load for all is a 124gr rmr match over 4.7gr of cfe pistol. 1085fps and 134pf in a cz nocturne full size. I've got some 127 cast/coated to play with as a backup bullet. |
Ddiggler
I'm going out of this world the same way I came in... naked, kicking, screaming, and covered in blood and vaginal secretions.
I'm going out of this world the same way I came in... naked, kicking, screaming, and covered in blood and vaginal secretions.
|
Originally Posted By ALASKANFIRE: I think most of the guys I knew were using light bullets that were definitely sub minor or right on the line. Some of them got really weird (Johnny Lim) but most of them just found a load in that power range that was 100% reliable. I don't know the spring rates but a couple of the guns I played with felt super lightly sprung. My production load for a while was 4.0 grains of titegroup with a 124 and it turns out that was sub minor in my Sig . I'd just use whatever bullet you like already or can get cheap.I got some bullets, CHEAP! right here: Attached File Some assembly required.
|
|
Originally Posted By scatterbrains: My load for all is a 124gr rmr match over 4.7gr of cfe pistol. 1085fps and 134pf in a cz nocturne full size. I've got some 127 cast/coated to play with as a backup bullet. The last time I reloaded 9mm on the 650, trying to resize the brass with the usual toolhead-die line up was a killer on my elbow. So I put one decapping/resizing die in at station #1. But didn’t screw it down so far. Then I put another resizing die in at station #2, screwed down just about as far as it would go. (Removed the decapping rod) So I put the Dillon powder measure at station #3 (with the tension springs). Bullet seater at #4. Lee FCD at #5. I was using Titegroup. There was enough powder there high enough in the case so I could see the powder level in the case before placing the bullet on the case mouth. When I sorted through this brass the other night and blew out the mulch piecesI noticed a lot of flattened primers. So I am guessing that at least 50% of this batch was 9mm Major ammo fired from Open division guns. That would explain why I also found some .38 Super cases mixed in too. That is a long round about way of saying that I bet my elbow will get a workout, again, resizing and reloading this brass. And I will switch to CFE to see if it fills the case even better making it easier to see. |
|
For Steel Challenge type shooting Ive always used a 147 Acme HiTek over 3.3gr of TG. They run like 970-980 fps. Its a pretty basic easy load. Only thing Id change is maybe using N320, and I likely will, but I have 10+ pounds of TG on the shelf, and that stuff lasts forever. However, I have seen enough evidence to show that sometimes the slower slide speed can be an issue, as in your waiting for the slide to return to battery with some guns. With my M&Ps and Sig 226 Legion SAO, its not bad, as they are just a mostly stock pistol. My buddy just picked up an an MPA 2011 and owns a DWX, both have dots. The DWX you can start to notice the lack of slide speed, and its really apparent on the MPA as you will be back on the target before the slide is fully in battery. In effort to speed up slide speed we are going to test some 135 Match Winners from RMR over N320, and try to shoot for 1050 fps. The additional rearward slide speed should help reduce that wait time. Its not that we are the greatest of shooters, in fact we call it redneck steel challenge, where we dont use exact target sizes or spacing, but when laymen like us start to notice it, then we want to try other stuff. In the end for us, its all about fun. |
|
Originally Posted By Kaldor: For Steel Challenge type shooting Ive always used a 147 Acme HiTek over 3.3gr of TG. They run like 970-980 fps. Its a pretty basic easy load. Only thing Id change is maybe using N320, and I likely will, but I have 10+ pounds of TG on the shelf, and that stuff lasts forever. However, I have seen enough evidence to show that sometimes the slower slide speed can be an issue, as in your waiting for the slide to return to battery with some guns. With my M&Ps and Sig 226 Legion SAO, its not bad, as they are just a mostly stock pistol. My buddy just picked up an an MPA 2011 and owns a DWX, both have dots. The DWX you can start to notice the lack of slide speed, and its really apparent on the MPA as you will be back on the target before the slide is fully in battery. In effort to speed up slide speed we are going to test some 135 Match Winners from RMR over N320, and try to shoot for 1050 fps. The additional rearward slide speed should help reduce that wait time. Its not that we are the greatest of shooters, in fact we call it redneck steel challenge, where we dont use exact target sizes or spacing, but when laymen like us start to notice it, then we want to try other stuff. In the end for us, its all about fun. Almost 20 years ago is when all the slide lightening cuts (aka rib cage cuts) got popular on the 2011 raceguns. I never shot a match with one to know the difference or be able to tell the difference in how fast a slide reciprocates. |
|
Originally Posted By Moondog: Wouldn't a 95-100gr be ok to ring steel? I don't see an advantage to heavier bullets when hit factor is not an issue. I found some old, old Winchester 115 grain hollow points tonight. So I am going to try those first. More cleaning / separating / wet tumbling tonight. It was a slow tedious process checking each piece of 9mm brass one by one by hand. Then making sure the pebbles and mulch pieces were out of the cases. I found a few more .38 Supers. Then it hit me, DUH! I could have used the Armanov hundo funnels I already have to get them to be mouth up. So I ran a test. Attached File Set the funnel on my bench, dump in the brass while shaking the funnel back and forth, so they would drop headstamp down, first. That’s a .38 Super standing proud in the middle. Then I could have just used my air compressor chuck to blow out the cases. Ugghhh… One of those forehead slapping “shoulda had a V-8” moments. |
|
I think there's two approaches to Steel Challenge... 1). The Competitor. This approach is simple: what do I need to do to score the very best. For a lot of people, it's some form of a very large frame handgun, often compensated, with the softest shooting loads possible. The competitors in my bush-league SC matches universally shoot 147s with a fast powder. Across the board, it's a 147.... 2) The Practitioner. I'm in this second group. I use Steel Challenge ( and Practical Pistol, IDPA, and anything else) as practice to increase competency with my EDC gun... I bring my Glock 48 to these matches. And I'm not interested in softest recoil: my HST loads arent bunny fart cream puff loads, so my practice loads should be decent. I load 115, 124 and 147, I don't much care, but I load them to real speeds. I know my 115s are giving me a 130 Power Factor, so I'm over minimum required. These do slow me down some, as I need to control muzzle flip. In a G48, they are a little bit snappy. But it forces me to concentrate on technique. In this case, my loads are a handicap ( in terms of scoring) but provide a more realistic recoil ( in terms of being a proficient handgunner, with a realistic Every Day Carry handgun). There's no "wrong answer". Just depends on what you wanna achieve. |
Global Warming Hoax Skeptic before it was cool
Joined:
Jun 2007
Posts:
72589
EE: 100% (1)
WA, USA
|
Originally Posted By WeimaranerDad: I found some old, old Winchester 115 grain hollow points tonight. So I am going to try those first. More cleaning / separating / wet tumbling tonight. It was a slow tedious process checking each piece of 9mm brass one by one by hand. Then making sure the pebbles and mulch pieces were out of the cases. I found a few more .38 Supers. Then it hit me, DUH! I could have used the Armanov hundo funnels I already have to get them to be mouth up. So I ran a test. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/369122/IMG_6499_jpeg-3752130.JPG Set the funnel on my bench, dump in the brass while shaking the funnel back and forth, so they would drop headstamp down, first. That's a .38 Super standing proud in the middle. Then I could have just used my air compressor chuck to blow out the cases. Ugghhh One of those forehead slapping "shoulda had a V-8" moments. We paid up for these, getting a second use for one is a win. 
|
Selling agent for Algores carbon credit scam.
Shooting and Reloading, one hobby feeds the other.
Shooting and Reloading, one hobby feeds the other.
|
I finally cranked out some rounds tonight. It was my first time using the Armanov hundo case gauge in 9mm: Attached File There were maybe about 10 to 15 rounds that wouldn’t fit flush in the Armanov. Those “rejects” fit fine in the Dillon case gauge except for one. That one I set off to the side. I pull the bullet on some rainy day. |
| I used to keep everything that failed gauge or barrel in a box and then burn them up when I went shooting. I don't think I ever had one that didn't work. Those 100 count checkers seem pretty handy. |
BikerNut:
Normal people like motorcycles. Real people like motorcycles.
People who don't like motorcycles are just... weird.
Normal people like motorcycles. Real people like motorcycles.
People who don't like motorcycles are just... weird.
Global Warming Hoax Skeptic before it was cool
Joined:
Jun 2007
Posts:
72623
EE: 100% (1)
WA, USA
|
Originally Posted By WeimaranerDad: I finally cranked out some rounds tonight. It was my first time using the Armanov hundo case gauge in 9mm: https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/369122/IMG_6668_jpeg-3757986.JPG There were maybe about 10 to 15 rounds that wouldn't fit flush in the Armanov. Those "rejects" fit fine in the Dillon case gauge except for one. That one I set off to the side. I pull the bullet on some rainy day. Besides the round setting correctly in the gauge, the other important inspection is to see that the primer is seated correctly. |
Selling agent for Algores carbon credit scam.
Shooting and Reloading, one hobby feeds the other.
Shooting and Reloading, one hobby feeds the other.
|
Originally Posted By frozenny: I think there's two approaches to Steel Challenge... 1). The Competitor. This approach is simple: what do I need to do to score the very best. For a lot of people, it's some form of a very large frame handgun, often compensated, with the softest shooting loads possible. The competitors in my bush-league SC matches universally shoot 147s with a fast powder. Across the board, it's a 147.... 2) The Practitioner. I'm in this second group. I use Steel Challenge ( and Practical Pistol, IDPA, and anything else) as practice to increase competency with my EDC gun... I bring my Glock 48 to these matches. And I'm not interested in softest recoil: my HST loads arent bunny fart cream puff loads, so my practice loads should be decent. I load 115, 124 and 147, I don't much care, but I load them to real speeds. I know my 115s are giving me a 130 Power Factor, so I'm over minimum required. These do slow me down some, as I need to control muzzle flip. In a G48, they are a little bit snappy. But it forces me to concentrate on technique. In this case, my loads are a handicap ( in terms of scoring) but provide a more realistic recoil ( in terms of being a proficient handgunner, with a realistic Every Day Carry handgun). There's no "wrong answer". Just depends on what you wanna achieve. BINGO! I was always in the second category, too. Category #2 had fewer gamesters, as well. A lot of people in category #1 are gamesters, too, not all but most of the gamesters were in category #1. You can hit a fixed plate with any bullet. To knock it down, I always found a heavy bullet was best. Has OP timed himself. The timer tells all. |
|
Originally Posted By dryflash3: I noticed the same thing the Armanov would fail rounds that the Dillon case gauge passed. Besides the round setting correctly in the gauge, the other important inspection is to see that the primer is seated correctly. A’yup! I rubbed my nitrile glove’d fingers over the headstamps / primers multiple times. There were maybe 3 NATO stamped cases that I was able to start the primer in, but it was going to be too much oomph to try to drive the primer home. So I pulled those cases out at station #2. Then I gave the (good, flush sitting) headstamps the green sharpie marker stripe. And then I boxed them up in those MTM or Berry’s flip lid boxes. |
|
Originally Posted By ALASKANFIRE: I used to keep everything that failed gauge or barrel in a box and then burn them up when I went shooting. I don't think I ever had one that didn't work. Those 100 count checkers seem pretty handy. I have 2 or 3 glass fish bowls that I put my rejects in. And there are various levels of rejects. Like the bullet is set too long/too short, primer went in upside down So one of these days when I am really, really bored, I will put my single stage RCBS press on the bench, thread in the collet type bullet puller, and break down my rejects. Which reminds me….this was a first for me last night…. In 32 years of reloading: Attached File I have my 9mm LOAD toolhead set up wonky. Sizing die in station #1 partially screwed down. No decapping pin/rod. EGW/Lee undersize die in station #2. Also, without a decapping rod/pin assembly. Dillon powder measure with the tension springs in station #3. Redding micrometer adjustable bullet seating die station #4. Lee FCD in at station #5. I decapped separately or previously and then wet tumbled with pins. So how that pebble got stuck in the primer hole….I have no idea. 
|
|
Originally Posted By Trollslayer: BINGO! I was always in the second category, too. Category #2 had fewer gamesters, as well. A lot of people in category #1 are gamesters, too, not all but most of the gamesters were in category #1. You can hit a fixed plate with any bullet. To knock it down, I always found a heavy bullet was best. Has OP timed himself. The timer tells all. Steel Challenge matches….like any other competition or sport…and pretty much like life in general…you’re going to get out of it what you put into it. Yes, years ago, every now and then I used to shoot USPSA pistol matches with a “cover garment”…the IDPA fishing vest …. because that seemed more like real life. Have I timed myself, like in practice? No not lately. I think up above I posted videos of my first person PivotHead camera runs on Smoke and Hope. And I have an AMG Commander shot timer. It has blue tooth, so it connects to my phone. I think I posted a screen shot of one of my runs on Smoke and Hope. And these are all static steel targets. They don’t fall down. All you gotta do is hit it with something hard enough and fast enough to knock the paint off. Which is why .22LR pistols and rifles are so popular. It was Max Michel back in 2007 who was the first to shoot all 8 stages (31 strings) under 80 seconds. He got a $30,000 check from Sig and the Outdoor Channel for being the first. That’s with a regular centerfire pistol drawn from a (barely there…race) holster, from the surrender start position. He was shooting an Open division gun, so it was wearing a C-more red dot optic. So that averages out to 2.58 seconds per strung. That is SMOKIN’! To bring this part of the discussion full circle, regardless if you are a “Gamer” or a “Tactical Timmy”, all shooting gets distilled down to what is called a “pursuit tracking task”: Attached File My goals are: A. To shoot better than last time B. Have fun C. Get me out of the house / off the sofa / meet people outside of work Yes, it would be cool to get classified as a Master. If I get there, I get there. If I don’t…oh…well… |
|
My primary hobby these days is revolver competition. My range has ICORE spring through fall and steel challenge all year, so I shoot steel challenge over the winter. My 9mm load isn't relevant since it would never feed in a semi auto, and was made to mimick 38 special with a 160 grain blue bullet. I loaded it to 130pf so it will pass a chrono test in USPSA in the cold. I would advise one load that will meet 125 pf if you ever intend to shoot other sports like USPSA. I personally don't like to experiment once I find something that works, and prefer 124 grain full power ammo in my Glocks. I will say with blue bullets and titegroup, I am able to shoot 2 inch groups off hand with an optical sight revolver at 25 yards. I'm not going to change a thing. I just made B class in ICORE limited and Steel challenge ISR.  |
|
WOO HOO! I am the range now! With some 10 inch plates and I stepped off 18 paces. Using a center hold like this: Attached File These are my results with the Winchester 115gr JHP’s: Attached File That is an 11 shot group. Gun ran 100%. And the primers look like this: Attached File Here’s the Hornady 124gr FMJ’s: Attached File 10 shot group. And the primers look like this: Attached File Next up are some factory 147’s…. |
|
Attached File I would have to look through my old 3 ring binder of reloading records to see when or even if the last time it was that I reloaded 115 grainers. I’m thinking my memory of the muzzle flippiness of 115 grainers comes from when I was shooting Winchester White Box. And it could have very well been the powder that Olin / Winchester was using. I couldn’t tell a difference in my reloads today, especially versus the factory 147’s. 
|
|
Originally Posted By ALASKANFIRE: Unless you think you did an overcharge or something dangerous I'd be shooting those fishbowls. Here is some of those fishbowl rejects: Attached File |
|
Originally Posted By WeimaranerDad: https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/369122/IMG_6728_jpeg-3759344.JPG I would have to look through my old 3 ring binder of reloading records to see when or even if the last time it was that I reloaded 115 grainers. I’m thinking my memory of the muzzle flippiness of 115 grainers comes from when I was shooting Winchester White Box. And it could have very well been the powder that Olin / Winchester was using. I couldn’t tell a difference in my reloads today, especially versus the factory 147’s. Steel Challenge is all about the timer. It ain't your Pappy's bullseye shootin' Have you found and significant difference in time between the various loads, or is elapsed time limited by you, the shooter?? |
|
Originally Posted By Trollslayer: Steel Challenge is all about the timer. It ain't your Pappy's bullseye shootin' Have you found and significant difference in time between the various loads, or is elapsed time limited by you, the shooter?? Nope! Not yet! I think to a degree the limiter is going to be me and shooting a Beretta with the DA/SA trigger pull. I don’t know how to phrase this, but if I was on the trigger too much, I could see the front fiber optic sight post dip down in the rear’s notch. I don’t know if I would call it a flinch. Or if it is just the mechanics of how the trigger puvots back as opposed to a 1911 or 2011 trigger pull. So sure enough, my bullets were missing….flying right under the circular plate. When I was shooting Pendulum 20 years ago, I was shooting a .40S&W . I was using Berry’s plated bullets back then. Those 10 inch diameter plates at 18 yards were giving me fits. Come to find out, When I digital caliper’ed those Berry’s plated bullets, some would measure 0.399” . Some would measure 0.400” . Others would measure 0.401” I took a Starret mic to them and got the same numbers. I talked to a match shooting buddy about it back then. He shot only Limited at the time with a .40 . His reply was “That is why I only buy the “double struck” bullets by Berry’s “. I think what I was buying from Cabela’s at that time was just “single struck”. |
|
If you are at any point in the trigger press seeing that front sight "dip", yes, that is either a pre-ignition flinch, or just shows that you need to refine the mechanics of your trigger press. When I start doing that shit it is a bold and humbling reminder that I need to dryfire more, ALOT more, and perfectly. But that is a discussion separate from reloading. |
|
Originally Posted By WeimaranerDad: Nope! Not yet! I think to a degree the limiter is going to be me and shooting a Beretta with the DA/SA trigger pull. I don’t know how to phrase this, but if I was on the trigger too much, I could see the front fiber optic sight post dip down in the rear’s notch. I don’t know if I would call it a flinch. Or if it is just the mechanics of how the trigger puvots back as opposed to a 1911 or 2011 trigger pull. So sure enough, my bullets were missing….flying right under the circular plate. When I was shooting Pendulum 20 years ago, I was shooting a .40S&W . I was using Berry’s plated bullets back then. Those 10 inch diameter plates at 18 yards were giving me fits. Come to find out, When I digital caliper’ed those Berry’s plated bullets, some would measure 0.399” . Some would measure 0.400” . Others would measure 0.401” I took a Starret mic to them and got the same numbers. I talked to a match shooting buddy about it back then. He shot only Limited at the time with a .40 . His reply was “That is why I only buy the “double struck” bullets by Berry’s “. I think what I was buying from Cabela’s at that time was just “single struck”. OH NO! I just bought a bunch to test. Now, the first step in the test is to measure and possibly sort them. I did not buy them as "seconds". ETA - A Little Story: When using my Python for Steel Challenge, I found there was a perfect spot on the trigger for my finger. As I drew back the trigger, my finger tip would just barely, ever so slightly touch the frame (inside the trigger guard). I learned I could draw back on the trigger to that point as I was reacquiring the target. I learned I could hold it there, too. Once the sights were aligned and I was on target, the tiniest additional pull was all it took. It was like shooting double action trigger as a single action. Find that spot. Learn to use it. |
Global Warming Hoax Skeptic before it was cool
Joined:
Jun 2007
Posts:
72634
EE: 100% (1)
WA, USA
|
Originally Posted By Trollslayer: OH NO! I just bought a bunch to test. Now, the first step in the test is to measure and possibly sort them. I did not buy them as "seconds". ETA - A Little Story: When using my Python for Steel Challenge, I found there was a perfect spot on the trigger for my finger. As I drew back the trigger, my finger tip would just barely, ever so slightly touch the frame (inside the trigger guard). I learned I could draw back on the trigger to that point as I was reacquiring the target. I learned I could hold it there, too. Once the sights were aligned and I was on target, the tiniest additional pull was all it took. It was like shooting double action trigger as a single action. Find that spot. Learn to use it. Yes it takes practice and concertation to learn this technique. |
Selling agent for Algores carbon credit scam.
Shooting and Reloading, one hobby feeds the other.
Shooting and Reloading, one hobby feeds the other.
|
Originally Posted By dryflash3: And that is the secret to shooting double action. Yes it takes practice and concertation to learn this technique. I went and practiced yesterday morning. I’m thinking, now, it is one of those things where over the years shooting at paper/cardboard IDPA and USPSA targets have been way more forgiving than shooting steel. Google puts the dimensions of the brown humanoid shaped cardboard USPSA target at roughly 18 inches by 30 inches. That’s 540 square inches. Yeah, yeah, it’s a little more involved than that. But I will get to that later. If I did the math correctly, a 10” diameter plate is 78.5 square inches. So it is about 14% of the surface area of a cardboard USPSA target. I have RO’ed / SO’ed hundreds of shooters at matches, some at national level matches. I can now see why steel plates and pepper poppers give people problems at IDPA and USPSA matches. Wide open cardboard targets with no hard cover on them or no “no shoots” in front of them makes for a hoser or hose fest type stage. I did watch some videos on YT yesterday: Attached File I have been shooting it like this for years: A, B, C, D, Stop I had a eureka! moment yesterday when I saw this YT video. The dude shot it like this: A,B, D, C, Stop So I will have to try that next time…see if that helps. Swinging this conversation back around to reloading…. NOPE! Still can’t tell the difference between the 115’s and the 124’s both with CFE Pistol with respect to recoil / muzzle flippiness. The gun ran 100%. I picked up all my brass. Which is one of the perks to wet tumbling is the bling really stands out versus the tarnished not so bling brass that has been there for a while. I found a few .380’s in the gravel. I threw those on the side berm. Maybe about 90% of the way through my practice session, my fiber optic front sight decided to launch itself somewhere. Just the light pipe….not the entire front sight. I didn’t think to bring any spares with me. I might just bring a regular black metal front sight post equipped gun next time. |
|
Originally Posted By JoeDevola: If you are at any point in the trigger press seeing that front sight "dip", yes, that is either a pre-ignition flinch, or just shows that you need to refine the mechanics of your trigger press. When I start doing that shit it is a bold and humbling reminder that I need to dryfire more, ALOT more, and perfectly. But that is a discussion separate from reloading. Thank you! |
|
Originally Posted By WeimaranerDad: I went and practiced yesterday morning. I’m thinking, now, it is one of those things where over the years shooting at paper/cardboard IDPA and USPSA targets have been way more forgiving than shooting steel. Google puts the dimensions of the brown humanoid shaped cardboard USPSA target at roughly 18 inches by 30 inches. That’s 540 square inches. Yeah, yeah, it’s a little more involved than that. But I will get to that later. If I did the math correctly, a 10” diameter plate is 78.5 square inches. So it is about 14% of the surface area of a cardboard USPSA target. I have RO’ed / SO’ed hundreds of shooters at matches, some at national level matches. I can now see why steel plates and pepper poppers give people problems at IDPA and USPSA matches. Wide open cardboard targets with no hard cover on them or no “no shoots” in front of them makes for a hoser or hose fest type stage. I did watch some videos on YT yesterday: https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/369122/IMG_6740_jpeg-3760153.JPG I have been shooting it like this for years: A, B, C, D, Stop I had a eureka! moment yesterday when I saw this YT video. The dude shot it like this: A,B, D, C, Stop So I will have to try that next time…see if that helps. Swinging this conversation back around to reloading…. NOPE! Still can’t tell the difference between the 115’s and the 124’s both with CFE Pistol with respect to recoil / muzzle flippiness. The gun ran 100%. I picked up all my brass. Which is one of the perks to wet tumbling is the bling really stands out versus the tarnished not so bling brass that has been there for a while. I found a few .380’s in the gravel. I threw those on the side berm. Maybe about 90% of the way through my practice session, my fiber optic front sight decided to launch itself somewhere. Just the light pipe….not the entire front sight. I didn’t think to bring any spares with me. I might just bring a regular black metal front sight post equipped gun next time. That's one thing about steel challenge that's unique all the stages are out there and it's pretty well worked out the best way to shoot each of them. |
BikerNut:
Normal people like motorcycles. Real people like motorcycles.
People who don't like motorcycles are just... weird.
Normal people like motorcycles. Real people like motorcycles.
People who don't like motorcycles are just... weird.
|
Originally Posted By ALASKANFIRE: That's one thing about steel challenge that's unique all the stages are out there and it's pretty well worked out the best way to shoot each of them. I was reading the 3 page thread on Pendulum on the Brian Enos forums earlier today. That thread was started back in 2004. Their target identification process is a lot different. They go by numbers: 1, 2, 3, 4, S . So there are dudes in that thread who supposedly drew onto a 10 inch plate ….so a 2, then 1. Then maybe 3, 4, stop. Or maybe they went: 2, 1, 4, 3, stop. But I think they specifically said were Limited or Open shooters. I also watched this one dude’s video where he had added in the shot coach timer app. I think he was at a 1.30 draw time with about 0.4 trnsitions. So finishing up tight around 3.3 seconds. |
|
Some dude on BE kinda hinted that he worked out a 94 grain bullet load that works in his PCC. I suspect it is this bullet normally meant for the .380 Auto : Attached File Not that I necessarily want to go that route….to have a strictly Steel Challenge load….. The bunny-est bunny fart loads… |
|
I used up the rest of my 124 grain FMJ’s last night. I might have 200 to 300 of the Hornady 147 grain FMJ’s left. My plan is to use CFE Pistol powder for the 147’s as well. I think…. Or I might go 50/50. Make 150 of ‘em with CFE Pistol. Then make the remaining 150 with my old standby of 3.5 grains of TiteGroup. And then shoot those side by side to see if I can feel a difference. I flipped through my old reloading binder. It looks like the lightest I ever went with was a 124/125 grain-ish Remington FMJ: Attached File Attached File The “old timer” from the BE forums messaged me back. He said a buddy of theirs makes his ammo. It is a 94 grain frangible. Hmmmm….errrr…. No thanks! I think I will stick to a “normal” bullet in the 115 to 147 grain range. |
| It always seemed to me that the dudes with all the super weird gear/ammo/guns were rarely the dudes that did the best. I saw a couple guys using lighter 380 bullets but it seemed like it was quite a bit of tweaking for little if any advantage. |
BikerNut:
Normal people like motorcycles. Real people like motorcycles.
People who don't like motorcycles are just... weird.
Normal people like motorcycles. Real people like motorcycles.
People who don't like motorcycles are just... weird.
Which 9mm bullet weight for Steel Challenge? (Page 1 of 3)
Armory Sponsor