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CA, USA
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Posted: 10/20/2016 3:14:33 PM EDT
[Last Edit: recondodan]
Well, My ESL5 lock is fried and AMSEC CS just passed me off to some local locksmiths, Going to cost bank to open, because the warranty does not cover this. Fook.
Buy once, cry once...should have got a better safe with a better lock. CUSTOMER SERVICE and TSG is coming to the rescue. Ultimate outcome to be determined. |
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GA, USA
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Posted: 10/20/2016 4:00:04 PM EDT
[#1]
Thsts a bummer and very surprising as the ESL line of locks are wonderful...The TF is definitely AMSEC's lowest lineup(Chinese) but I don't know if that has anything to do with this. I guess the lock could have been installed incorrectly. I have its bigger brother on my safe right now and It's been perfect so far...
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Posted: 10/20/2016 4:32:38 PM EDT
[Last Edit: heeler1]
[#2]
The safe is not the lock.
The TF line is better than some other low cost safes I can think of. At least it has a real door. I don't mind saying I have a distrust of electronic locks on safes though. |
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CA, USA
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Posted: 10/20/2016 6:52:40 PM EDT
[Last Edit: recondodan]
[#3]
No real beef with the fit and finish of the safe, but damnit...if the lock goes kabloeey and your only option is hundreds of dollars in locksmithing then...it is a poor investment.
I suspect it is the memory chip. Master combination and my combination do not work. After a scheduled PM, (Duracell 9v battery change) I get nothing but four beeps and on the fourth attempt...lockout for 15 minutes. Fuck. Customer service at AMSEC was indifferent and offered no assistance. I am not a window-licker that forgot his combination. I am a window-licker with a malfunctioning lock. I am pissed off because I bought this safe thinking it was a good investment. If I had known then, what I know now... |
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Posted: 10/20/2016 7:13:23 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By recondodan:
No real beef with the fit and finish of the safe, but damnit...if the lock goes kabloeey and your only option is hundreds of dollars in locksmithing then...it is a poor investment. I suspect it is the memory chip. Master combination and my combination do not work. After a scheduled PM, (Duracell 9v battery change) I get nothing but four beeps and on the fourth attempt...lockout for 15 minutes. Fuck. Customer service at AMSEC was indifferent and offered no assistance. I am not a window-licker that forgot his combination. I am a window-licker with a malfunctioning lock. I am pissed off because I bought this safe thinking it was a good investment. If I had known then, what I know now... I very much understand where you are coming from. And if one googles anything about E-lock failures you will read plenty of horror stories. Too much really to make me want one on my safe. All that being said some decent safe and vault people can sometimes get the thing open without having to drill the door. My best suggestion is after you finally get it open replace it with an S&G 6730 dial combination lock and have it put on during the repair. Perhaps when you talk to the safe tech about buying the new lock from him the overall bill won't be as bad. You won't be sorry. |
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GA, USA
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Posted: 10/20/2016 7:27:51 PM EDT
[#5]
Man..That is frustrating because the reason you want this e-lock (over a s&g) is the very thing that is going to cause your locksmith trouble..It's secure, unlike the s&g locks which a locksmith can open using electronic countermeasures..You can't do that with the ESL line and that's why I have it on my safe.
I know that's not much help and the situation sucks but the ESL line of locks does not. They are wonderful locks and I trust it on my TL rated safe above all others. Don't lose faith just yet as the designer of that very lock is a member here. I have no doubt that he will be along soon to try and help you out. Remember, s*** happens with EVERY lock on the market and unfortunately it yours this time. It's not in AMSEC's best interest to sell crappy locks and that's why they don't! Sounds like customer service might need some adjusting if they really just blew you off though... |
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Posted: 10/20/2016 7:50:31 PM EDT
[#6]
I would love to have a electronic lock on my amsec,but I have shitty luck and would be the 1 in 10000 that gets locked out.i hope it is a easy fix.im sticking with dial locks on my stuff.
Hope it Can be repaired without too much trouble Pete |
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Posted: 10/20/2016 7:51:55 PM EDT
[#7]
Another thing to try is this.
Get a reasonably heavy rubber mallet and pound several times close to the lock. Try your combination and see if it will then open. Sometimes the solenoid or motor will stick and cause this sort of problem. Try it several times if necessary. If you are lucky enough to get it unlocked DON'T relock it because I highly doubt you will get this chance again. |
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CA, USA
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Posted: 10/20/2016 8:14:04 PM EDT
[Last Edit: recondodan]
[#8]
I appreciate the tips guys. I gently flamed them on their FB page and submitted a colorful description of the situation to their website. Hopefully they will step up. It is a component failure and they are only 2 hours away. I IM'd the arfcommer AMSEC guy, but no response. If I have to eat hundreds of dollars in breaching or unbricking this thing, I will save for a better safe and let the all the locals shoot the hell out of it in glorious 4k. All of my guns, save for one is trapped in this thing. Grrrrr.
ETA, I removed the FB comment, and due to the positive response and anticipated happy ending there will not be a High Def nuking of the safe. They are going to make this right. |
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CA, USA
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Posted: 10/21/2016 12:53:30 AM EDT
[Last Edit: recondodan]
[#9]
UPDATE
Arfcom and AMSEC may be resolving this issue. Will update, regardless. If it is made right, I will be AMSEC loyal again. Outcome To Be Determined. |
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GA, USA
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Posted: 10/21/2016 2:56:52 AM EDT
[#10]
I'm guessing that means THESAFEGUY got in touch with you. He designed the ESL locks so if anyone can help, it's him..I am sure you will be made whole but let us know. Did you put in an absolutely fresh battery? I mean go to the store and buy it and then go home and put it in..Duracell only! I have heard that works sometimes..
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CA, USA
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Posted: 10/21/2016 3:16:53 AM EDT
[Last Edit: recondodan]
[#11]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By DUNWOODYMAN:
I'm guessing that means THESAFEGUY got in touch with you. He designed the ESL locks so if anyone can help, it's him..I am sure you will be made whole but let us know. Did you put in an absolutely fresh battery? I mean go to the store and buy it and then go home and put it in..Duracell only! I have heard that works sometimes.. Absolutely fresh Duracell alkalines only, cycled at least quarterly, discarded and replaced-along with my fire detection and carbon monoxide detector batteries. Routine PM. Minty fresh, brand name. And yes, TSG reached out to me and shared proprietary knowledge. The Framolator is not communicating to the Flux Capicator. Known component failure issue. I am cautiously optimistic, and will cool my jets. Even Porsche makes a lemon now and then, and if the parts come from a 3rd party vendor like a bunch of crappy capacitors or microprocessors or PLCs from China, well...stuff happens that may make it through the initial Q/A inspection. If they will make me whole again, I will be more than happy to sing songs of praise. |
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MO, USA
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Posted: 10/21/2016 8:44:46 AM EDT
[#12]
Absolutely fresh Duracell alkalines only, cycled at least quarterly, discarded and replaced-along with my fire detection and carbon monoxide detector batteries. Routine PM. Minty fresh, brand name. Stop doing this. This is one of the things that people do that can cause problems. The more you mess with things, the more likely you are to cause some sort of damage. Batteries in these locks can last up to several years depending upon use. Use your electronic locks until the lock gives you a low battery indication, and then change them. |
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CA, USA
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Posted: 10/21/2016 5:03:43 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By a1abdj:
Stop doing this. This is one of the things that people do that can cause problems. The more you mess with things, the more likely you are to cause some sort of damage. Batteries in these locks can last up to several years depending upon use. Use your electronic locks until the lock gives you a low battery indication, and then change them. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By a1abdj:
Absolutely fresh Duracell alkalines only, cycled at least quarterly, discarded and replaced-along with my fire detection and carbon monoxide detector batteries. Routine PM. Minty fresh, brand name. Stop doing this. This is one of the things that people do that can cause problems. The more you mess with things, the more likely you are to cause some sort of damage. Batteries in these locks can last up to several years depending upon use. Use your electronic locks until the lock gives you a low battery indication, and then change them. Respectfully, disagree...for a number of reasons. I am a advocate of "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" however the ESL 5 eats Duracell batteries like tic tacs. I'm lucky if the battery lasts quarterly. More like every two months, with light weekly use. Again, I always use premier fresh alkalines. Not Chicom crap, rechargeables or even high end LiPo. Just what the mfg recommended. Your mileage may vary. |
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CA, USA
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Posted: 10/21/2016 5:06:50 PM EDT
[Last Edit: recondodan]
[#14]
I am reeling in some of my negativity, TSG and customer service at AMSEC have really stepped up, and are in the process of resolution...on my behalf. I am optimistic it will be fixed within a reasonable time. Will update.
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Posted: 10/21/2016 5:22:31 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By recondodan:
Respectfully, disagree...for a number of reasons. I am a advocate of "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" however the ESL 5 eats Duracell batteries like tic tacs. I'm lucky if the battery lasts quarterly. More like every two months, with light weekly use. Again, I always use premier fresh alkalines. Not Chicom crap, rechargeables or even high end LiPo. Just what the mfg recommended. Your mileage may vary. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By recondodan:
Originally Posted By a1abdj:
Absolutely fresh Duracell alkalines only, cycled at least quarterly, discarded and replaced-along with my fire detection and carbon monoxide detector batteries. Routine PM. Minty fresh, brand name. Stop doing this. This is one of the things that people do that can cause problems. The more you mess with things, the more likely you are to cause some sort of damage. Batteries in these locks can last up to several years depending upon use. Use your electronic locks until the lock gives you a low battery indication, and then change them. Respectfully, disagree...for a number of reasons. I am a advocate of "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" however the ESL 5 eats Duracell batteries like tic tacs. I'm lucky if the battery lasts quarterly. More like every two months, with light weekly use. Again, I always use premier fresh alkalines. Not Chicom crap, rechargeables or even high end LiPo. Just what the mfg recommended. Your mileage may vary. Hmm...That seems excessive if it is chewing batteries like candy. I have to wonder if that issue was a prelude to your lock out situation. Do other ESL-5's eat batteries like that? If not then obviously that was a major issue with your defective lock. |
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CA, USA
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Posted: 10/21/2016 5:46:36 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By heeler1:
Hmm...That seems excessive if it is chewing batteries like candy. I have to wonder if that issue was a prelude to your lock out situation. Do other ESL-5's eat batteries like that? If not then obviously that was a major issue with your defective lock. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By heeler1:
Originally Posted By recondodan:
Originally Posted By a1abdj:
Absolutely fresh Duracell alkalines only, cycled at least quarterly, discarded and replaced-along with my fire detection and carbon monoxide detector batteries. Routine PM. Minty fresh, brand name. Stop doing this. This is one of the things that people do that can cause problems. The more you mess with things, the more likely you are to cause some sort of damage. Batteries in these locks can last up to several years depending upon use. Use your electronic locks until the lock gives you a low battery indication, and then change them. Respectfully, disagree...for a number of reasons. I am a advocate of "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" however the ESL 5 eats Duracell batteries like tic tacs. I'm lucky if the battery lasts quarterly. More like every two months, with light weekly use. Again, I always use premier fresh alkalines. Not Chicom crap, rechargeables or even high end LiPo. Just what the mfg recommended. Your mileage may vary. Hmm...That seems excessive if it is chewing batteries like candy. I have to wonder if that issue was a prelude to your lock out situation. Do other ESL-5's eat batteries like that? If not then obviously that was a major issue with your defective lock. In retrospect, I believe you are correct...it was a prelude. Maybe a short. To be determined. |
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Posted: 10/21/2016 6:14:11 PM EDT
[#17]
Following with intrest in outcome. I am currently shopping for a vault door and narrowing down choices. I wouldn't own one with anything but a mechanical dial for these very reasons.
Hope it works out OP ... Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile |
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USA
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Posted: 10/21/2016 6:26:08 PM EDT
[Last Edit: telc]
[#18]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By heeler1: Hmm...That seems excessive if it is chewing batteries like candy. I have to wonder if that issue was a prelude to your lock out situation. Do other ESL-5's eat batteries like that? If not then obviously that was a major issue with your defective lock. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By heeler1: Originally Posted By recondodan: Originally Posted By a1abdj: Absolutely fresh Duracell alkalines only, cycled at least quarterly, discarded and replaced-along with my fire detection and carbon monoxide detector batteries. Routine PM. Minty fresh, brand name. Stop doing this. This is one of the things that people do that can cause problems. The more you mess with things, the more likely you are to cause some sort of damage. Batteries in these locks can last up to several years depending upon use. Use your electronic locks until the lock gives you a low battery indication, and then change them. Respectfully, disagree...for a number of reasons. I am a advocate of "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" however the ESL 5 eats Duracell batteries like tic tacs. I'm lucky if the battery lasts quarterly. More like every two months, with light weekly use. Again, I always use premier fresh alkalines. Not Chicom crap, rechargeables or even high end LiPo. Just what the mfg recommended. Your mileage may vary. Hmm...That seems excessive if it is chewing batteries like candy. I have to wonder if that issue was a prelude to your lock out situation. Do other ESL-5's eat batteries like that? If not then obviously that was a major issue with your defective lock. I changed the ones in my ESL10 once in 11 years. |
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CA, USA
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Posted: 10/21/2016 8:04:35 PM EDT
[Last Edit: recondodan]
[#19]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By telc:
I changed the ones in my ESL10 once in 11 years. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By telc:
Originally Posted By heeler1:
Originally Posted By recondodan:
Originally Posted By a1abdj:
Absolutely fresh Duracell alkalines only, cycled at least quarterly, discarded and replaced-along with my fire detection and carbon monoxide detector batteries. Routine PM. Minty fresh, brand name. Stop doing this. This is one of the things that people do that can cause problems. The more you mess with things, the more likely you are to cause some sort of damage. Batteries in these locks can last up to several years depending upon use. Use your electronic locks until the lock gives you a low battery indication, and then change them. Respectfully, disagree...for a number of reasons. I am a advocate of "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" however the ESL 5 eats Duracell batteries like tic tacs. I'm lucky if the battery lasts quarterly. More like every two months, with light weekly use. Again, I always use premier fresh alkalines. Not Chicom crap, rechargeables or even high end LiPo. Just what the mfg recommended. Your mileage may vary. Hmm...That seems excessive if it is chewing batteries like candy. I have to wonder if that issue was a prelude to your lock out situation. Do other ESL-5's eat batteries like that? If not then obviously that was a major issue with your defective lock. I changed the ones in my ESL10 once in 11 years. They are going to install a ESL 10 after they drill attack it and execute a gentle door breach. Dual 9v, correct? |
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GA, USA
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Posted: 10/21/2016 8:27:47 PM EDT
[Last Edit: robpiat]
[#20]
Isn't there a possibility that a keypad change will open the safe? I wouldn't let a locksmith drill it until that was ruled out.
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Posted: 10/21/2016 11:06:43 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By robpiat:
Isn't there a possibility that a keypad change will open the safe? I wouldn't let a locksmith drill it until that was ruled out. This. I would not want my door drilled even if they can use very hardened materials to repair the hole. I will say at times I have had a faint temptation to change my Amsec's dial lock to the ESL-10. But it would make me sick if I had to have that beautiful half inch thick plate steel door on my BF6636 drilled. 
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MO, USA
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Posted: 10/21/2016 11:23:18 PM EDT
[#22]
I would suspect some voodoo within the keypad, or broken or damaged wire to be the culprit. Changing batteries are not the only thing that can cause damage to wiring. Sometimes an installer will do it when putting the lock in. It doesn't take much.
I have seen an handful of the S&G keypads having battery draining issues lately. New keypad fixes the problem. A competent tech would always swap keypads and inspect the wiring for any visible damage prior to drilling. |
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CA, USA
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Posted: 10/22/2016 12:20:08 AM EDT
[#23]
Noted, and I am sure they will trouble shoot and do some controlled component swaps, prior to drilling. I would anyways. Also sounds like a good tech savvy point of attack or spoofing the safe. Why cut, torch or pry, if you could attach a hacked keypad to send a "open" signal.
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Posted: 10/22/2016 3:41:01 AM EDT
[#24]
Sorry I missed this thread. I just read the PM from Dan today, and our service group is on it already. I have been crazy busy, and not browsing the boards as much as I like.
The problem Dan describes is quite honestly a defect we only just discovered recently, and we have already poured a ton of money into a gaggle of high-tech electronics forensics to identify the problem. The problem has been narrowed to a microprocessor failure. They have de-capped and etched the chips, done a full spectral imagining series under power, thermal photography, x-ray study, and even mass spectrometer studies looking for abnormal contaminants in the assembly. The unfortunate news is that if Dan's safe is suffering from this same failure that we have seen in a few cases now, there is no bypass or go-around to get the lock to operate. Now, the good news is that this has only happened on a few units over the course of the last year, and a recent deep study of service incidence frequency brought this issue to the surface for investigation. I believe the case count is 11 total, but to keep this in perspective, that comes from a population of well over 40,000 locks sold to date. It turns out Dan's safe was manufactured in 2012 according to our records. He says he bought it one year ago, and we're honoring the warranty. I'm sure they will try all the tricks before getting out the drill. Even so, the kind of safe techs we contract generally make the hole they drill disappear, and the plugged hole will be tougher that the steel that was removed. Sorry for the inconvenience, and I trust that this will all be resolved to Dan's satisfaction. If not, I will make sure that happens. |
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Posted: 10/22/2016 3:51:33 AM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By recondodan:
Respectfully, disagree...for a number of reasons. I am a advocate of "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" however the ESL 5 eats Duracell batteries like tic tacs. I'm lucky if the battery lasts quarterly. More like every two months, with light weekly use. Again, I always use premier fresh alkalines. Not Chicom crap, rechargeables or even high end LiPo. Just what the mfg recommended. Your mileage may vary. Good information. We measure sleep and awake current draw as a fundamental measure of quality at several stages of manufacturing. The ESL5 normally draws between 15-20 microamps at rest. Anything above 25 microamps is considered defective and rejected. With only weekly openings, the batteries should last for years. If you had to change batteries quarterly, then you may have been suffering early failure symptoms already. When the lock returns to AMSEC, I'll get my hands on it and report my findings. |
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CA, USA
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Posted: 10/22/2016 1:49:00 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By TheSafeGuy:
Sorry I missed this thread. I just read the PM from Dan today, and our service group is on it already. I have been crazy busy, and not browsing the boards as much as I like. The problem Dan describes is quite honestly a defect we only just discovered recently, and we have already poured a ton of money into a gaggle of high-tech electronics forensics to identify the problem. The problem has been narrowed to a microprocessor failure. They have de-capped and etched the chips, done a full spectral imagining series under power, thermal photography, x-ray study, and even mass spectrometer studies looking for abnormal contaminants in the assembly. The unfortunate news is that if Dan's safe is suffering from this same failure that we have seen in a few cases now, there is no bypass or go-around to get the lock to operate. Now, the good news is that this has only happened on a few units over the course of the last year, and a recent deep study of service incidence frequency brought this issue to the surface for investigation. I believe the case count is 11 total, but to keep this in perspective, that comes from a population of well over 40,000 locks sold to date. It turns out Dan's safe was manufactured in 2012 according to our records. He says he bought it one year ago, and we're honoring the warranty. I'm sure they will try all the tricks before getting out the drill. Even so, the kind of safe techs we contract generally make the hole they drill disappear, and the plugged hole will be tougher that the steel that was removed. Sorry for the inconvenience, and I trust that this will all be resolved to Dan's satisfaction. If not, I will make sure that happens. This information and communication is why my faith has been restored in AMSEC. I appreciate the candor and not getting brushed off. Your rep who contacted me explained that the contracted techs do great work...and even if they don't (they are contractors) I at least know what to expect and what is going on. Guys, this is customer service. Whatever happens, happens...but I am not pissed off anymore, and content this is getting some positive forward movement to resolve. |
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Posted: 10/22/2016 6:16:10 PM EDT
[#27]
I've had an ESL5 for a few years now and I think I've changed the battery only once in that time. I think it is a great lock and I loved the illuminated keypad. Guess I'll take notice if it ever starts eating batteries but it's given me no trouble at all.
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GA, USA
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Posted: 10/24/2016 1:08:01 AM EDT
[#28]
Safeguy.... ESL 5 Issue Only?
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Posted: 10/24/2016 8:42:52 AM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By DUNWOODYMAN:
Safeguy.... ESL 5 Issue Only? Yes... |
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NY, USA
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Posted: 10/24/2016 11:24:19 PM EDT
[#30]
I open my ESL10 equipped safe at least two to three times a week, and it has the same batteries as the day I installed it two years ago... When it beeps, they will get changed, until then, I leave them alone.
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Posted: 10/25/2016 2:54:06 PM EDT
[Last Edit: TheSafeGuy]
[#31]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By NYresq1:
I open my ESL10 equipped safe at least two to three times a week, and it has the same batteries as the day I installed it two years ago... When it beeps, they will get changed, until then, I leave them alone. Be aware that the ESL10/20XL locks do not have a low battery warning. Although the battery life is incredible, the lock will cease to open without warning. My first gunsafe had an early ESL10 on it, and I changed the batteries after 11 year, only because there was signs of corrosion on one of the battery terminals. The difference between ESL10 and ESL5 is the processor. The ST Micro processor in the ESL10 has a dedicated deep sleep mode, where the lock only draws around 3-4 micro-amps. The ESL5 has a PIC processor, which does not have ultra-low standby current, and draws more on the order of 15-20 microamps when sleeping. The dual battery ESL10XL will open on average 8000 continuous cycles on a fresh set of good batteries. The ESL5 does around 2500 cycles on one 9V battery. Still, that's over 5 years life with one opening per day. I recommend changing batteries every 2 years, to be safe, you can never tell if the batteries you buy are very fresh or strong. Battery labeling is very deceptive. Date codes are more-or-less meaningless. Cell chemistry quality, environmental exposure and other factors like static load current levels all impact battery performance. A really good set of fresh Energizer or Duracell batteries will measure over 9.60 volts. You will be hard-pressed to find those same batteries reading more than 9.40V with retail purchase sources. That can equate to well over 1000 cycles of lost life. Believe me, I have load and life tested hundreds of batteries over the years, and there is a huge span of quality out there. Buy the two big-name players, an get them from places that turn battery inventories at high volume like CostCo. |
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CA, USA
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Posted: 10/25/2016 5:49:03 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By TheSafeGuy:
Be aware that the ESL10/20XL locks do not have a low battery warning. Although the battery life is incredible, the lock will cease to open without warning. My first gunsafe had an early ESL10 on it, and I changed the batteries after 11 year, only because there was signs of corrosion on one of the battery terminals. The difference between ESL10 and ESL5 is the processor. The ST Micro processor in the ESL10 has a dedicated deep sleep mode, where the lock only draws around 3-4 micro-amps. The ESL5 has a PIC processor, which does not have ultra-low standby current, and draws more on the order of 15-20 microamps when sleeping. The dual battery ESL10XL will open on average 8000 continuous cycles on a fresh set of good batteries. The ESL5 does around 2500 cycles on one 9V battery. Still, that's over 5 years life with one opening per day. I recommend changing batteries every 2 years, to be safe, you can never tell if the batteries you buy are very fresh or strong. Battery labeling is very deceptive. Date codes are more-or-less meaningless. Cell chemistry quality, environmental exposure and other factors like static load current levels all impact battery performance. A really good set of fresh Energizer or Duracell batteries will measure over 9.60 volts. You will be hard-pressed to find those same batteries reading more than 9.40V with retail purchase sources. That can equate to well over 1000 cycles of lost life. Believe me, I have load and life tested hundreds of batteries over the years, and there is a huge span of quality out there. Buy the two big-name players, an get them from places that turn battery inventories at high volume like CostCo. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By TheSafeGuy:
Originally Posted By NYresq1:
I open my ESL10 equipped safe at least two to three times a week, and it has the same batteries as the day I installed it two years ago... When it beeps, they will get changed, until then, I leave them alone. Be aware that the ESL10/20XL locks do not have a low battery warning. Although the battery life is incredible, the lock will cease to open without warning. My first gunsafe had an early ESL10 on it, and I changed the batteries after 11 year, only because there was signs of corrosion on one of the battery terminals. The difference between ESL10 and ESL5 is the processor. The ST Micro processor in the ESL10 has a dedicated deep sleep mode, where the lock only draws around 3-4 micro-amps. The ESL5 has a PIC processor, which does not have ultra-low standby current, and draws more on the order of 15-20 microamps when sleeping. The dual battery ESL10XL will open on average 8000 continuous cycles on a fresh set of good batteries. The ESL5 does around 2500 cycles on one 9V battery. Still, that's over 5 years life with one opening per day. I recommend changing batteries every 2 years, to be safe, you can never tell if the batteries you buy are very fresh or strong. Battery labeling is very deceptive. Date codes are more-or-less meaningless. Cell chemistry quality, environmental exposure and other factors like static load current levels all impact battery performance. A really good set of fresh Energizer or Duracell batteries will measure over 9.60 volts. You will be hard-pressed to find those same batteries reading more than 9.40V with retail purchase sources. That can equate to well over 1000 cycles of lost life. Believe me, I have load and life tested hundreds of batteries over the years, and there is a huge span of quality out there. Buy the two big-name players, an get them from places that turn battery inventories at high volume like CostCo. I know the manual recommends premium alkalines (which is what I use, since that is what is specified). What are your thought on the Duracell or Energizer lithium types? Is the juice worth the squeeze or do they have characteristics that make them less than desirable? |
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Posted: 10/25/2016 6:09:05 PM EDT
[Last Edit: TheSafeGuy]
[#33]
Quote History[span style='font-weight: bold;']Originally Posted By recondodan:
I know the manual recommends premium alkalines (which is what I use, since that is what is specified). What are your thought on the Duracell or Energizer lithium types? Is the juice worth the squeeze or do they have characteristics that make them less than desirable? Although Li Ion batteries have a much better current delivery profile, they do not retain their charge as well as an Alkaline cell. Re-chargeable battery types generally do not hold charge well for long periods, as they "leak" internally and will drop to an unrecoverable state if not cycled regularly. Part of the trade-off with the ability to re-charge is the leakage. They work fine, but you will need to keep maintenance up on them on a regular basis. |
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NY, USA
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Posted: 10/25/2016 10:28:50 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By TheSafeGuy:
Be aware that the ESL10/20XL locks do not have a low battery warning. Although the battery life is incredible, the lock will cease to open without warning. My first gunsafe had an early ESL10 on it, and I changed the batteries after 11 year, only because there was signs of corrosion on one of the battery terminals. The difference between ESL10 and ESL5 is the processor. The ST Micro processor in the ESL10 has a dedicated deep sleep mode, where the lock only draws around 3-4 micro-amps. The ESL5 has a PIC processor, which does not have ultra-low standby current, and draws more on the order of 15-20 microamps when sleeping. The dual battery ESL10XL will open on average 8000 continuous cycles on a fresh set of good batteries. The ESL5 does around 2500 cycles on one 9V battery. Still, that's over 5 years life with one opening per day. I recommend changing batteries every 2 years, to be safe, you can never tell if the batteries you buy are very fresh or strong. Battery labeling is very deceptive. Date codes are more-or-less meaningless. Cell chemistry quality, environmental exposure and other factors like static load current levels all impact battery performance. A really good set of fresh Energizer or Duracell batteries will measure over 9.60 volts. You will be hard-pressed to find those same batteries reading more than 9.40V with retail purchase sources. That can equate to well over 1000 cycles of lost life. Believe me, I have load and life tested hundreds of batteries over the years, and there is a huge span of quality out there. Buy the two big-name players, an get them from places that turn battery inventories at high volume like CostCo. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By TheSafeGuy:
Originally Posted By NYresq1:
I open my ESL10 equipped safe at least two to three times a week, and it has the same batteries as the day I installed it two years ago... When it beeps, they will get changed, until then, I leave them alone. Be aware that the ESL10/20XL locks do not have a low battery warning. Although the battery life is incredible, the lock will cease to open without warning. My first gunsafe had an early ESL10 on it, and I changed the batteries after 11 year, only because there was signs of corrosion on one of the battery terminals. The difference between ESL10 and ESL5 is the processor. The ST Micro processor in the ESL10 has a dedicated deep sleep mode, where the lock only draws around 3-4 micro-amps. The ESL5 has a PIC processor, which does not have ultra-low standby current, and draws more on the order of 15-20 microamps when sleeping. The dual battery ESL10XL will open on average 8000 continuous cycles on a fresh set of good batteries. The ESL5 does around 2500 cycles on one 9V battery. Still, that's over 5 years life with one opening per day. I recommend changing batteries every 2 years, to be safe, you can never tell if the batteries you buy are very fresh or strong. Battery labeling is very deceptive. Date codes are more-or-less meaningless. Cell chemistry quality, environmental exposure and other factors like static load current levels all impact battery performance. A really good set of fresh Energizer or Duracell batteries will measure over 9.60 volts. You will be hard-pressed to find those same batteries reading more than 9.40V with retail purchase sources. That can equate to well over 1000 cycles of lost life. Believe me, I have load and life tested hundreds of batteries over the years, and there is a huge span of quality out there. Buy the two big-name players, an get them from places that turn battery inventories at high volume like CostCo. Good to know. I guess its a good time to change them this year when I buy batteries for the smoke detectors! |
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Posted: 10/25/2016 11:17:26 PM EDT
[#35]
Tag for outcome.
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CA, USA
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Posted: 10/26/2016 1:07:03 AM EDT
[Last Edit: recondodan]
[#36]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By TheGrayMan:
Tag for outcome. Safecracker scheduled for this Monday A.M. |
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CA, USA
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Posted: 10/31/2016 2:20:39 PM EDT
[#37]
Safecracker arrived, explained and demonstrated the issue, and he got to work. Drill and bore-scope attack, very quiet. I will not elaborate further on his tactics.
He had the safe open in @ 20 minutes. Another 20 minutes, and the ESL10 was installed. Works great, very sensitive to bolt pressure (a good thing IMO) Tested, shook hands and he was off to the next appointment. I give him a 5 out of 5. Clean, professional, polite and prompt. AMSEC stood up and took responsibility for the failed component and made it right, so I am satisfied. I will endorse the product amongst my prosumer, and work related peers. Because of Arfcom and the TSG this situation was resolved. If I had just stuck with the automated customer service and electronic CS, I would have been SOL and eaten hundreds of dollars in expenses. So, the lesson here IMO is to elevate and seek resolution using all resources. I probably could have been less agitated, so that is my take away. Components fail on cars, guns and safes. If it is a material or component failure the company should "make it right". AMSEC did exactly that, and I am happy to gain on demand access to my stuff. |
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Posted: 10/31/2016 5:03:06 PM EDT
[#38]
Awesome! Sounds like a great company!
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Posted: 10/31/2016 5:31:10 PM EDT
[#39]
Looky there! ARFcom gets results!
Thanks to TSG for doing that.
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CA, USA
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Posted: 10/31/2016 6:35:57 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By TheGrayMan:
Looky there! ARFcom gets results!
Thanks to TSG for doing that. I will renew my membership next paycheck.
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CO, USA
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Posted: 1/11/2018 12:33:02 PM EDT
[#41]
My ESL5 just went out last night. Dealer/locksmith here now. I've sent the email to Amsec...what else can I do to get the same resolution? HELP!
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Posted: 1/11/2018 1:02:13 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By wildcardranch:
My ESL5 just went out last night. Dealer/locksmith here now. I've sent the email to Amsec...what else can I do to get the same resolution? HELP! |
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Posted: 1/11/2018 1:17:41 PM EDT
[#43]
Our Tech Service people will be contacting you soon...
TSG |
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Posted: 1/11/2018 3:02:32 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Intune69:
Awesome! Sounds like a great company! |
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CO, USA
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Posted: 1/12/2018 12:33:07 AM EDT
[#45]
Thanks TSG...it was the lock. Had to have it drilled by the dealer and then I decided to retrofit with a dial. Hope AmSec will help out.
Matthew |
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CA, USA
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Posted: 6/8/2018 5:30:28 AM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By TheSafeGuy:
[b]Sorry I missed this thread. I just read the PM from Dan today, and our service group is on it already. I have been crazy busy, and not browsing the boards as much as I like. The problem Dan describes is quite honestly a defect we only just discovered recently, and we have already poured a ton of money into a gaggle of high-tech electronics forensics to identify the problem. The problem has been narrowed to a microprocessor failure. They have de-capped and etched the chips, done a full spectral imagining series under power, thermal photography, x-ray study, and even mass spectrometer studies looking for abnormal contaminants in the assembly. The unfortunate news is that if Dan's safe is suffering from this same failure that we have seen in a few cases now, there is no bypass or go-around to get the lock to operate. Looking forward to seeing what we can do to resolve this. Thanks |
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Posted: 6/8/2018 12:14:01 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Shellcode: Looks like I might be unlucky #12. I have the same exact issue with a 2012 ESL5 that rejects my code after a new battery change. I sent you an email just now with the details. I hope I’m wrong about being in the same boat but it doesn’t seem likely. Looking forward to seeing what we can do to resolve this. Thanks |
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CA, USA
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Posted: 6/18/2018 7:44:48 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Shellcode]
[#48]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By TheSafeGuy: Tech Service should be contacting you soon... True to TSG’s word I was contacted by a tech and my Amsec safe was able to be opened non-destructively and the electronic lock was replaced with an updated version. One thing to note. During the repair I asked the (independent) smith what gun safe brand does he recommend to his friends and he said without hesitation “hands down Amsec.” Thank you TSG and Amsec, you made a customer for life and be sure I too will be recommending Amsec to my friends and family. |
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TX, USA
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Posted: 6/8/2019 2:36:26 AM EDT
[#49]
I might be unlucky 13. code worked last week or so. Tonight just kept getting the incorrect code beeps. tried replacing the battery and such but still just getting incorrect code. Sent you an email through the site. I was curious if there was anything else to try or who to contact. |
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TX, USA
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Posted: 4/20/2020 5:33:08 PM EDT
[#50]
Brand new ar15 member. Came across this thread while trying to find anything on my AMSEC ESL5 issue. I believe I have had one of these defective locks for a number of years.
I own two AMSEC safes. One with a mechanical lock and this problematic ESL5 equipped unit. I purchased this AMSEC safe in 2012. I have had problems with my lock since purchase. I called AMSEC tech support to question them why the battery on the ESL5 was needing to be replaced once every month and half. My access to the safe varied between 3 - 4 a week to once a month at that time, but mostly I didn’t access the safe very frequently. The tech said to make sure I was completely rotating the lock to complete closed when I locked the safe as that could cause the unit to drain the battery if it wasn’t completely closed. I told him I always shut the safe completely, but I would try that and see if things improved with battery life. I called back into AMSEC tech support and I let them know the battery problem was still was an issue. The tech said it could be a bad keypad so he sent out a new unit and had me ship the old unit back. I didn’t see any improvement after replacing the keypad. I wasn’t needing to access that safe as often and I just fed the safe batteries as they went bad. |
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