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Posted: 1/1/2021 5:26:53 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Blowout][Edited]
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I have a Ohaus 505 and did some cleaning and modifications to make it a very accurate and repeatable scale for loading. I found a lot of the ideas from web searches and videos. Just putting them all together here in hope others will chime in with more ideas to add on. For just some of my time and not much money, this scale is now very easy to use and very repeatable. My confidence in having accurate charges has increased tremendously.  Here's a list of what was done: 1.Clean the knife edges at the fulcrum on the beam with lighter fluid or acetone. Clean up the knife edges with a diamond stone so when you look straight at the edge there are no visible flat spots. a. Hold beam in vise while hone sharpening knife edges to get edge angle consistency on both sides, if necessary. Just removing any burrs or imperfections and not try to create a new angle on the edge. b. Cold blue or aluminum black the knife edges after sharpening to prevent rusting. Do not use oil on the edges after the final cleaning.  2.Remove and clean the 2 agate bearings and slots with lighter fluid using a tooth brush and q-tips and finish up with electric contact spray or acetone to remove all residues. Replace bearings insuring both wobble freely in their slots. Reinstall capture plates.  3.Remove stirrup wire that holds pan and clean associated knife edges on balance beam. Clean knife edges with a tooth brush and lighter fluid or acetone and use a narrow stone to remove any flat spots if detected. a. Spread the stirrup wire so that it rides only on the knife edges and does not touch the abutments at their ends and the loops are parallel to each other. The goal is to have the wire centered on the knife edges. b. Check to make sure there are no grooves in the stirrups where they contact the knife edges. If any are found, a fine rat tail file can be used to smooth out the surface. I'd suggest polishing the surfaces afterwards with a dremal tool, conical polishing heads and flitz or similar. I've been trying to think of a different stirrup design to replace the wire but nothing has come to fruition yet. Ideas would be welcome.  4.Mount a needle on the pointer scale (doesn't affect the balance of the beam) to make the scale easier to read. Cut off end of a sewing needle and super glue to the beam.  5.Using the screw adjustable foot, level the top of the scale on a level surface. If the beam pointer is off, add small pieces of solder to the pan (like your adding powder) until the beam pointer is zero'd. Use a screw driver to open the cavity in the pan hanger and add the small bits of solder and close the cavity. The beam pointer should be on zero now.  6.I used a small amount of silicon or RTV at bottom of trough to cushion the beam dampener when it touches bottom. Ain't pretty, but it prevents the hard contact when the scale swings to the bottom.  I try to keep the main fulcrum from contacting the metal plates at each end. By eliminating contact, the beam can swing freely. If the scale swings hard and taps the bottom, its likely the fulcrum will not maintain a centered position. This is the reason I placed a silicon buffer.  7.Add an inexpensive USB webcam to project the image of the end of the pointer and its reference scale onto a computer monitor. I used a iPhone on a stand before this to get the same viewing angle and to magnify the pointer. It helped, but a camera is so much better. I had an old 15" laptop and updated the OS to Win10 and got a Win10 compatible camera off eBay for only $9. Just used the mount that came with the camera. Drilled and tapped through the scale base and used a brass screw with a lock nut on the inside. The camera rotates and you can focus the lens to get a very clear image.    8.Fill bottom of scale with Plaster of Paris or Durham's Rock Hard Water Putty. I used painter's tape around where the magnets are to keep the puddy out so I could access it later if needed. I tried the scale with the magnets removed at one time and it didn't do anything for accuracy or precision, so I put them back in (in their proper magnetic positioning).  9.Build leveling platform for scale from 1/4" aluminum plate. Ordered the Al plate from eBay. Everything used is aluminum or brass (non-magnetic) so as not to influence the scale. I did this from reading some of Scott Parker's posts. It levels the scale side to side as well as end to end. Also lifts it up higher and seems to be a bit easier to access to the pan. a.Drill and tap 3 holes for leveling. Use 3 - 2" long brass screws with nylon wing nut at top to aid turning and a nylon acorn nut at the bottom. A nut in the middle to lock the screw at the desired height. Duct tape to hold the camera wire in place. b.To mount the scale on the deck, drill 2 holes through the deck and use 1 " brass screws inserted up through the deck and secure with a nut to lock in place. Mark the plaster underneath the scale where the screws contact and drill holes slightly larger than the screws themselves.   c.Place the scale so the screws protrude into the holes and prevent the scale from moving side to side, but can still be adjusted up and down for leveling. d.Add bubble levels to deck.  References are posts and videos from: Boyd Allen Scott Parker Thetargetmaster Accurateshooter.com After I'm finished building a cabinet for the reloading bench, I'll make a cover for the scale and will include the information when its completed. Updated: Finally got around to making a cover from 3/16" acrylic sheet and assembled with acrylic cement (aka superglue) 18"x 8.75"x 5.75" Attached File |
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Originally Posted By SpanishInquisition: What did you use for calibration after fucking with the knife edges? My cal shop always used 198 proof ethanol for physical cleaning. The knife edges were just touched up. When looking down the edge flat spots were visible so just removed those burrs. I was thinking about making a jig similar to those used when sharpening a knife, but didn't go too far and inadvertently alter the angle on the blades. Figure someone smarter than me determined the best angle to use for this application. Bought a set of calibration weights. They were in grams, so I had to convert to grains. I'm more concerned in reproducibility/precision than accuracy. Even so the scale is pretty accurate after doing these changes, based on the calibration weights. |
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Originally Posted By Bashby: Thanks for putting this info together. I’m using a plastic Lyman scale for now, and not doing any precision reloading so it’s probably good enough. I am going to at least look at and clean my knife edges. I have never done any maintenance to it. Hope it helps. Before adding a camera, I used my cell phone camera on a cheap Cell phone stand It made a big difference in being able to move around and read the scale repeatably. |
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Originally Posted By Shootindave: Very cool write up. A 50 cent wave washer replacement will keep your RCBS handle from falling. My press is a 1974. I threw in a new one and it stays up perfect now. I added a polyurathane washer to replace the wave washer and now the handle stays put. You might have suggested this on another thread and is why I made the change. Thanks for the suggestion! |
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Originally Posted By Cascade-Dude: Wow. Impressive engineering. You are doing your homework.  Forum note; starting half way down page 5 running to page 9 (last page) are where the "toggled" threads are. Toggled means I hit the toggle tool and saved these threads from the archives. I only do that for what I consider quality threads. If you read the first page I will post when I "toggled" that thread. I can see the icon, but for some reason non mods can't. So anyway there are many threads lurking on the back pages of this forum with great information. As Cascade-Dude found out. |
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Originally Posted By dryflash3: @Cascade-Dude You are doing your homework. Forum note; starting half way down page 5 running to page 9 (last page) are where the "toggled" threads are. Toggled means I hit the toggle tool and saved these threads from the archives. I only do that for what I consider quality threads. If you read the first page I will post when I "toggled" that thread. I can see the icon, but for some reason non mods can't. So anyway there are many threads lurking on the back pages of this forum with great information. As Cascade-Dude found out. Thanks. I'm trying. I want to be respectful of your generosity and time in training me and building as big a base of knowledge before we meet seems like a good way to do that. I'll go check out some "toggled" threads.  . |
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Originally Posted By Cascade-Dude: Thanks. I'm trying. I want to be respectful of your generosity and time in training me and building as big a base of knowledge before we meet seems like a good way to do that. I'll go check out some "toggled" threads. .  |
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Originally Posted By N1150x: Not sure if it applies to this scale but a word of caution. Leaving scales ballenced on the knife edge will wear them out faster. Also get a check weight to make sure the scale is calibrated. I'm partial to class S weight my self. Good point. I was thinking about a simple way to lift the the beam at the fulcrum so the knife edges are clear of the agate bearings 2 years ago when I did this write up. It slipped my mind until you brought it up. Let me see if I can come up with something this week and add it to this thread... I also need to make an enclosure to keep dirt and dust off the scale. Plan on using 1/8" clear acrylic sheet. Originally Posted By rg1: Make sure the pan hanger isn’t bent and both loops are aligned , straight and centered. If the loops are spread out or squeezed in they can slightly bind and the beam movement affected. The hanger is the wire the pan holder clips on. A good point as well. #3 in the first post mentions the stirrups and their alignment on their associated knife edges. |
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Originally Posted By Blowout: I also need to make an enclosure to keep dirt and dust off the scale. Plan on using 1/8" clear acrylic sheet. I am using a plastic storage container- Tupperware like- as a storage cover. Take off the lid and it fits perfectly over my RCBS 505. It keeps all the dust and contamination off of it. Thanks for the tips |
| I did all this minus the computer monitor. Check the little rings that hold the pan hanger. They can get notches in them from the knife edge on the balance beam. I sanded and polished all conection points as they were beginning to wear a notch in the metal from swinging back and forth against each other. Made the scale very sensitive to small amounts of powder changes. |
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Originally Posted By MarkBinSC: I am using a plastic storage container- Tupperware like- as a storage cover. Take off the lid and it fits perfectly over my RCBS 505. It keeps all the dust and contamination off of it. Thanks for the tips I looked for one online but couldn't find a perfect fit. The aluminum base plate doesn't help on this either. Need 18x7 x 5 or 6"h Originally Posted By Joedirt199: I did all this minus the computer monitor. Check the little rings that hold the pan hanger. They can get notches in them from the knife edge on the balance beam. I sanded and polished all conection points as they were beginning to wear a notch in the metal from swinging back and forth against each other. Made the scale very sensitive to small amounts of powder changes. I made comments on the stirrups in #3 on the original post. I'll look at the stirrups through magnification to see if there are any imperfections as you found on yours. I'll follow up with what they look like.... I was hoping someone might have input on a better stirrup setup, but after viewing some pics of the Prometheus, it seems to use a similar looped spring wire. Unsure if they ride on a knife edge. Attached File |
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I looked at the stirrups with magnification and no noticeable marks/notches on the wire surface that contacts with the knife edge. Doesn't mean it's absolutely smooth, just couldn't see any imperfections. I tried using a very fine rat tailed file, but thought it was more likely scarring the surface than smoothing it. Don't have my dremel tool at the moment; otherwise, I'd polish the ID of the stirrup with polishing compound. I'll do that once it gets it back in my hands. I did make sure the stirrups were parallel to each other when remounting them. |
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Originally Posted By terry_tr6: when i was competing, i cut lengths of 12 gauge copper wire to the weight of my loads. that way i could drop it into my pan and zero my scale( an Ohaus beam) to it. bend a loop on the wire and you can hang them with your other reloading other tools That's a good idea. I usually use calibration weights to get as close as possible to the desired load weight to verify the scale is accurate. Then adjust the scale to the final charge weight and call it good. |
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Finally got around to making a cover for this scale. Wanted it clear so it can be covered to eliminate any breeze from affecting the reading and still see the scale. My reloading bench is right next to the garage door and sometimes I reload with the door open. I couldn't find anything with the dimensions desired so I picked up some 3/16" acrylic sheet from Amazon (cheaper than ebay). Cut it with the table saw and used a generic superglue to join the edges. 18" x 8.75" x 5.75" I might put a handle on top. Now I need to clean up the scale again and leave it covered from now on... Attached File |
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Originally Posted By dryflash3: Nice work. https://i.imgur.com/uq4mRMVl.jpg Mine is larger and made of wood, and stickers. https://i.imgur.com/Z04X9LFl.jpg But it covers the trickler also. 
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An Observation - I have an antique analytical balance inside a glass case. It has a couple of features you might consider incorporating. * The scale sits on a base which also holds the glass case. This allows you to move the whole thing as a single unit, not as separate items - a scale, a trickler and dust cover. * The controls can be operated after the glass cover is closed. This keeps the wind off the mechanism while you finalize things inside. Perhaps, consider an external knob or electrical switch to operate the trickler. * The hanging pan can be locked into position while samples are loaded/unloaded. The pan does not "swing in the breeze" making operations a LOT easier. It also prevents loading up the bearings during handling. * The glass case is an integral part of the scale and it's easy to operate the door. Perhaps, hinge the cover to the base so it can be flipped open quickly and easily, then closed to keep wind out during the for the measurement. My balance is far too sensitive to be used as a reloading scale, however, it offers insight into design features which evolved over centuries. The image is not my scale but it's close enough. 
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I have a temp setup right now. Moved most of my stuff out of state and the basement is getting gutted and redone. I found a heavy table a church was throwing out. The beam scale I have here is a LEE safety scale only goes to 110 gr I beleive. I had to rezero everytime I used it. Until I set about 500 lbs of bullets on the table. Then I drew a permanent marker around the scale. Set it there each time I use it. zeros perfect and is the same measurement on a small electronic scale I check it with. |
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Originally Posted By Trollslayer: An Observation - I have an antique analytical balance, the inside a glass case. It has a couple of features you might consider incorporating. * The scale sits on a base which also holds the glass case. This allows you to move the whole thing as a single unit, not as separate items - a scale, a trickler and dust cover. - To make that happen, the aluminum plate would either need to be larger or move the 3 leveling screws inboard to make enough room for the cover. I'll have to think about this some more... * The controls can be operated after the glass cover is closed. This keeps the wind off the mechanism while you finalize things inside. Perhaps, consider an external knob or electrical switch to operate the trickler. - I was considering a remotely controlled trickler and did a little research in the past, but didn't decide on anything. It does makes sense to do this... * The hanging pan can be locked into position while samples are loaded/unloaded. The pan does not "swing in the breeze" making operations a LOT easier. It also prevents loading up the bearings during handling. - Thought about adding a lifter mechanism so the knife edges don't sit on the agate stone bearings when the scale isn't in use. The Prometheus has this ability which got me considering it in the past. Not sure exactly how to implement a lifter yet. Something to work on next... * The glass case is an integral part of the scale and it's easy to operate the door. Perhaps, hinge the cover to the base so it can be flipped open quickly and easily, then closed to keep wind out during the for the measurement. - I was considering something like this but couldn't make up my mind where to make the hinge or add a door. Need to easily remove the pan and adjust the two scale sliders. I was thinking of just flipping the cover on it's back to access the pan and scale, then flipping it back down to check the weight measurement. Likely only need this if the garage door is open. My balance is far too sensitive to be used as a reloading scale, however, it offers insight into design features which evolved over centuries. The image is not my scale but it's close enough. https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=http%3A%2F%2Fauctions.morphyauctions.com%2FItemImages%2F000257%2F17640092_3_lg.jpeg&f=1&nofb=1&ipt=fb42ba932b536648187a0e178d3773e64e80f8d545930dc6650ca169e9d62d5c&ipo=images |
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Originally Posted By ARMALITE-FAN: I have a temp setup right now. Moved most of my stuff out of state and the basement is getting gutted and redone. I found a heavy table a church was throwing out. The beam scale I have here is a LEE safety scale only goes to 110 gr I beleive. I had to rezero everytime I used it. Until I set about 500 lbs of bullets on the table. Then I drew a permanent marker around the scale. Set it there each time I use it. zeros perfect and is the same measurement on a small electronic scale I check it with. The double 3/4" ply top on my bench does pretty good at minimizing vibrations, but granite would definitely be better. ETA: I was thinking dust/dirt accumulating on the agate bearings caused a slight shift in zero on mine. I'd re-level to zero just to circle back to where it was set originally. I'm anticipating the cover will cure this. |
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On my balance (and in the image above), the large brass knob rotates to lift the entire balancing arms assembly off the bearing. It raises it up and locks it in place (up). To weigh, you rotate the knob, which lowers the arms onto the bearing and releases them to move. The smaller knob is actually a push button which releases the arms holding the pans steady for loading. The pans can then move. These things, the balances, are mechanical marvels! Yet they are actually quite simple. Simplicity is what you get through design evolution - it's all done with rods and levers. P.S. - Mine does not have that big black cylinder. P.P.S. - This sounds like a really cool project. Wood, acrylic and brass are easily within my wheelhouse. |
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Originally Posted By Trollslayer: On my balance (and in the image above), the large brass knob rotates to lift the entire balancing arms assembly off the bearing. It raises it up and locks it in place (up). To weigh, you rotate the knob, which lowers the arms onto the bearing and releases them to move. The smaller knob is actually a push button which releases the arms holding the pans steady for loading. The pans can then move. These things, the balances, are mechanical marvels! Yet they are actually quite simple. Simplicity is what you get through design evolution - it's all done with rods and levers. P.S. - Mine does not have that big black cylinder. P.P.S. - This sounds like a really cool project. Wood, acrylic and brass are easily within my wheelhouse. |
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If you got to see one of these scales in-person and got to operate it, all would become clear. A sketch would also do it, I'm sure. A verbal description,... maybe less so. If a rod goes up, and that rod has two points of contact underneath the beam, it would raise the beam. A latch or pin could lock that rod in the up position. When that rod goes down, the support points are completely free of (not touching) the beam. You can also design it to function as a rod goes down. If I get a chance, I will photograph mine (close ups). Don't ignore the little drawer beneath the base. It is very handy for check weights and such. |
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I understand what your saying. Lifting the beam itself at 2 points makes sense, but it will still roll to the side from the weight of the damper fin (1) when the 2 knife edges (2) are lifted off the agate bearings. Attached File I was thinking of lifting at (2) close to the agate bearings with a U shaped brass piece brazed to a lift rod. |
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In my old setup in the basement I had a cabinet just above where I charged cases.scale was attached and wide enough to get a trickler. I put rubber straps around doors and in the middle to keep dust out. Cabinet was reinforced with 3/4 plywood but I think the next one will be built from scratch. I load rifle standing up so I would put it at a comfortable eye level between seeing and hands . I would make it big enough for electronic scale and.dispenser/scale Granite is a great idea. I was redoing the network at and the lab had a scale they measured parts of mouse farms on. The scale was 50K plus and they where getting wacky reading and had the scale guy there every 3 days. I looked and said dust must be a component. Since we are all in full disposable protective gear withasks Lab guy was getting ready to talk down to me. Then I said the label printer and dot matrix printer sitting on the huge heavy table might be a problem I've seen piles of dust coming.out. from under printers sitting.in the same.place mostly from the paper. Lab guy working under him caught me at lunch and said I don't think you know it but that was a mic drop statement He said the guy didn't ever shut up about procedures and he barely talked the rest of the week Apparently it had been going on since they moved to the new lab. He was trying to make himself indispensable and bitching to higher ups. He said if the whole lab had not heard me say he is the type to claim it. I said yeah we have people like that too. My manager for one. But she stopped calling a couple years back I had no idea how sensitive stuff is |
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Originally Posted By ARMALITE-FAN: In my old setup in the basement I had a cabinet just above where I charged cases.scale was attached and wide enough to get a trickler. I put rubber straps around doors and in the middle to keep dust out. Cabinet was reinforced with 3/4 plywood but I think the next one will be built from scratch. I load rifle standing up so I would put it at a comfortable eye level between seeing and hands . I would make it big enough for electronic scale and.dispenser/scale Granite is a great idea. I was redoing the network at and the lab had a scale they measured parts of mouse farms on. The scale was 50K plus and they where getting wacky reading and had the scale guy there every 3 days. I looked and said dust must be a component. Since we are all in full disposable protective gear withasks Lab guy was getting ready to talk down to me. Then I said the label printer and dot matrix printer sitting on the huge heavy table might be a problem I've seen piles of dust coming.out. from under printers sitting.in the same.place mostly from the paper. Lab guy working under him caught me at lunch and said I don't think you know it but that was a mic drop statement He said the guy didn't ever shut up about procedures and he barely talked the rest of the week Apparently it had been going on since they moved to the new lab. He was trying to make himself indispensable and bitching to higher ups. He said if the whole lab had not heard me say he is the type to claim it. I said yeah we have people like that too. My manager for one. But she stopped calling a couple years back I had no idea how sensitive stuff is My scale is located maybe 15' from where I use a table and miter saw in the driveway which throws dust everywhere. The added cover has kept the scale clear of dust since it was added. Years ago when our quality team visited a supplier of precision glass syringes we discovered they had been cutting the glass barrels about 20' or so from where the assembly was done. There was enough glass dust in the air to contaminate the finished product. They figured it out and moved the glass cutting to another area with a physical barrier to separate clean from contaminated area. They never disclosed there was a problem even though we had numerous customer complaints in to them. We only heard about the root cause and them admitting they ever had a problem when we traveled to AU for a routine audit. |
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Originally Posted By dirtyboy: Do you wear gloves to prevent fingerprints? Used to do that in college chem labs. Are you referring to fingerprints from adjusting weight on the beam scale throwing off measurements? I don't see any reason to wear gloves. |
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Originally Posted By Blowout: Bought a set of calibration weights. They were in grams, so I had to convert to grains.. That's a hell of a lot less harrowing than calibrating hospital scaled. I had to do that 3 times when in the military, then they gave that fun to newer guys |
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The USB webcam is much simpler than my RaspberryPi camera setup, but I had the RPi on hand. Using a monitor mounted to the back of my bench near eye-level makes it easier to read the scale. I’ll probably add a tiny needle to the beam to make it even clearer where the indicator is. My plans include an acrylic cover with a hinged door to allow me to use the scale while blocking breezes - it may wind up being a door that is removed by sliding up, depending on how hard it is to find appropriate hinges. Right now I have a cardboard box I built to keep dust off the scale, but building it gave me lots of information about how much room I’d need for a real breeze guard. I’m also going to make a stand to support the scale at an easy-to-reach height. With a camera to allow me to read the indicator, the scale itself can be at any height. Also, by placing the scale appropriately, I won’t run the pan into other items nearly as often as I do now.  As for keeping the beam off the agate (probably ceramic for any scale less than 30 years old) saddles, I think just taking the beam off the scale and resting it in a simple cradle that keeps the knife edges away from contact with anything would be an easy-to-do workaround. I’ll try to rig something like that up with scraps I have lying around, but it’d just be a backbone with supports for either end of the beam and slots the beam can rest in. I’d also take the pan off of the beam when the beam is off the scale; the weight of JUST the stirrup wires can’t be enough to wear on those knife edges. |
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I didn't want bench space taken up by a laptop, so I got a little 3.5" monitor on Amazon: camera. Already had a suitable power supply for both. Attached File Some of the paint flaked off the scale when it was sent off to be tuned by Scot Parker. Total out of pocket was about $30 in 2020. |
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Originally Posted By GHPorter: The USB webcam is much simpler than my RaspberryPi camera setup, but I had the RPi on hand. Using a monitor mounted to the back of my bench near eye-level makes it easier to read the scale. I'll probably add a tiny needle to the beam to make it even clearer where the indicator is. My plans include an acrylic cover with a hinged door to allow me to use the scale while blocking breezes - it may wind up being a door that is removed by sliding up, depending on how hard it is to find appropriate hinges. Right now I have a cardboard box I built to keep dust off the scale, but building it gave me lots of information about how much room I'd need for a real breeze guard. I'm also going to make a stand to support the scale at an easy-to-reach height. With a camera to allow me to read the indicator, the scale itself can be at any height. Also, by placing the scale appropriately, I won't run the pan into other items nearly as often as I do now. As for keeping the beam off the agate (probably ceramic for any scale less than 30 years old) saddles, I think just taking the beam off the scale and resting it in a simple cradle that keeps the knife edges away from contact with anything would be an easy-to-do workaround. I'll try to rig something like that up with scraps I have lying around, but it'd just be a backbone with supports for either end of the beam and slots the beam can rest in. I'd also take the pan off of the beam when the beam is off the scale; the weight of JUST the stirrup wires can't be enough to wear on those knife edges. I thought about adding something on the cover that holds the beam off the agate bearings. Haven't found any free time to figure it out. |
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Originally Posted By bbqncigars: I didn't want bench space taken up by a laptop, so I got a little 3.5" monitor on Amazon: camera. Already had a suitable power supply for both. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/149923/20220330_104209_jpg-3594822.JPG Some of the paint flaked off the scale when it was sent off to be tuned by Scot Parker. Total out of pocket was about $30 in 2020. |
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I'll add a link to the trickler project Here since it's integrated into the beam scale platform. It's been a real time saver versus using the manual trickler shown in the OP. Attached File |
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