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Posted: 4/23/2024 4:56:19 PM EDT
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Attached File Howell 45 Colt conversion cylinder for my Uberti 1858 New Model Army. After some swearing I figured out the trick to getting it in. Once it's in, it locks up tighter than a bank vault. Dummy 45 Colt rounds chamber perfectly. Attached File It does take a shorter COAL. Attached File I have a few more tools en route for reloading this caliber, and loading this with the Holy Black as well. Fun times! |
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I have Howell conversion cylinders for all my cap and ball revolvers. (Inside the plastic canisters) Unfortunately, I have to run all my 45 Colt factory ammo on a belt grinder to make them short enough to chamber correctly.Attached File |
Very nice collection, sir. 
I had heard that all BP revolver cylinders are shorter than a 45 Colt cylinder, and that was why some people use 45 Schofield instead. The dummies I show are loaded with the Lee 255gr cast seated at the crimp groove, and it seems to be the correct length, but a wee bit shorter than the called-for COAL. With lighter "Cowboy" loads or black powder loads, I expect that shouldn't be a major issue. I could use Schofield, but I just started with this caliber, don't want to expand out again just yet! I see that none of the firing pins have springs in them - normal? On the side, for grins and giggles I looked up the Kirst Konverter setup perhaps for my Uberti 1860. Not cheap, but sure looks good, especially set up with ejector and cut out. If you are loading BP cartridges, what lube do you use for the bullets and how applied? I was going to simply powdercoat, but was told that won't work well with black powder. |
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I have a Howell or two. And an open top with a conversion similar to the Richard’s Mason. But my bucket list is a Kirst or several. Just can’t figure out which to do. OP, does the trigger guard bite you on the 58? Everyone of mine does. |
17 And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.
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No, as a matter of fact the Remington frames seems to fit me better than many of the Colt Army or Navy grips. That's why the only gun really on my wish list right now is a Taylor/Uberti Remington 1875 in 45 Colt. My sizing die is taking forever to get here, got it from Titan Reloading, an outfit I had never heard of before but my gunsmith buddy LAGS has dealt with many times. I looked at the Kirst Konverter after I got the Howell, and I have to say, very nice with the add on ejectors etc., but the price tag is nuts. To convert my 1860 to the Kirst with ejector came out to just under $500, and I can get a new strong revolver for about the same that can handle all 45 Colt ammo, not just Cowboy/Black Powder. On the other hand, a Konverted 1860 WOULD be cool as all get out. |
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Originally Posted By parrisisland1978: I don’t load black powder cartridges. When using BP, I love the experience of loading loose powder, placing the lubed wad, and levering in the lead ball into each cylinder chamber. It is cathartic for me. I've done that for years.    I've also done paper cartridges as well, just for grins and giggle. They worked very well in the New Model Army.  I'm just wanting to try something different, that's all. 
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So here is what I did, in pictures. I didn't have a cookie cutter for the BP lube, so boolits were dipped, then sized with a Lee push through sizer. Lube is a beeswax/olive oil/something I can't remember lube I used with paper cartridges, so I know it works OK in black powder. Yes, that is a cat food can full of lube. That is my hot plate I use to warm up molds.  They look goofy.  I also powdercoated and sized other boolits for smokeless loading.  Dipped boolits sized - what a mess. However, it looks like they got the grooves lubed.  First ever BP cartridges loaded. I loaded 10 total, 5 with 29, 5 with 29.5gr Olde Eynsford 3F.  Perfect fit.  Shorter COAL for a shorter cylinder  And at the end of all this, I looked at the other mold my buddy sent to try - THAT looks like a black powder lube groove! Gonna cast some of them up this weekend, I guess.  Now off to the range ASAP. Critique away. |
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Originally Posted By armoredman: And at the end of all this, I looked at the other mold my buddy sent to try - THAT looks like a black powder lube groove! Gonna cast some of them up this weekend, I guess. https://i.imgur.com/xP3v9V6.jpg Now off to the range ASAP. Critique away. Will .452" seal properly in a .455" bore? |
Death to quislings.
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Originally Posted By armoredman: Blow me.  Originally Posted By armoredman: Originally Posted By Element94: Clean your nasty keyboard.  Blow me.  I see Howell makes a Uberti .45ACP that is out of stock. I put myself on the list. |
Preferred pronoun: MARINE
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So I was impressed and not impressed. We start with smokeless, because that really was the original purpose of the conversion cylinder to begin with. Also remember, these are literally the very first 45 Colt loads I have ever done, so I am starting with a clean slate.  No issues with loading/unloading, everything worked perfectly.  I realized from the first loads I was aiming to high - these revolvers were generally supposed to be shot at 50-75 yards, at a man on horse. But when I got my POA/POI aligned, well, not too shabby, I don't think. Of course, every single person on Arf can shoot rings around me, all day and twice on Sunday, but this is a good start for me.  Then I switched to black powder 45 Colt. That was...different. First, I doubt that was enough lube on that bullet, shit started gumming up after the first cylinder full. Group was not impressive.  The second group, shot by my son, was even worse, with one obvious keyhole. I think the lube wasn't close to being enough and it showed. However, I did get this photo.  That's 29.5 grains of Olde Eynsford 3F. I am good with the conversion cylinder, it worked perfectly, did everything I was supposed to do. |
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Originally Posted By backbencher: Will .452" seal properly in a .455" bore? I use a .454 sized ball when loading black, and it shaves a nice ring, so I think, based on what I saw, that the bullets are close enough to the same diameter to work. If the conversion cylinder was known to shoot nothing but inaccurate softballs, I think I would have found that in all the web searching I did for reviews and such. |
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@armoredman You should see if it’s possible to search “GUNS” magazine archives for John Taffin’s past articles. I’ve been a subscriber for years and Taffin writes about black powder loads in sixguns every month. Load development, different powders, pistol brands, conversions, etc. Always my favorite read. |
So we tried the Howell with some new loads, but since the sticks broke on my paper target holder, all I had was steel, and I don't like steel any closer than 25 yards with handguns. Nice thing - nobody else was out there, which is REALLY rare! These loads are all the Lee cast 200 gr bullet cast of recovered range lead, powder coated, over smokeless powder - I don't have my lube cutter quite yet, (from a HECKUVA nice buddy), so I won't be doing any black powder loads. And we're off to the races! Target is an AR500 3/4 scale IDPA, and yes, it's been around for a while. This is the last time we see this revolver all nice and shiny.  Hold at the top of the orange aiming point, and this was from a braced bench position. Not bad.   10 rounds, missed a couple.  Now this fell out when I unloaded the conversion cylinder on these round, which, BTW, needed a punch to get all the brass out. This seemed like a pretty substantial chunk of lead, but it never happened again, and I found no evidence of any side spitting.  Onward, Accurate Number 2, a powder I use a LOT with 9mm and 38 Special. Notice how dirty the Ramshot ZIP is.  Oh my. I like this.  Yes, liking this. Long distance picture, other people showed up on the firing line.  I think I have found a direction to go with this. The conversion cylinder worked perfectly. Funny thing is, I swore that diva of a revolver complained at cleaning time, "I am supposed to have a hot bath, WITH BUBBLES!" Sorry, Princess, you are a smokeless revolver now, you get cleaned like the big boys. I think these 200 grainers are a real winner. |
I we finally got back to black powder cartridges once all the stars aligned. The "cookie cutter" I mentioned earlier.     The Bore Butter turned out to be bad, had to throw it out.  '    Started with a center target hold, saw the first two impact, switched to a 6 o'clock hold - quite nice. Gonna make some more of these.  Cleaning was not fun, but it never is. On to the next step. |
| I forgot to add that I finally got to try my "full power" 45 Colt BP loads, done the "old way", filling the case to approximately 1/8th inch below the case mouth and seating the bullet with no air gap. Bullet is the same 200gr Lee with SPG tropical. I was worried a bit because I didn't wipe of the bullet bases before seating them, and I was told the lube might kill the powder. It was about 2 months since loading to firing. No problem, accuracy was excellent, functioning was perfect and HOLY MOTHER OF TOLEDO! Those things have some BARK! That revolver went pointing to the sky every round with billows of smoke - that was a LOTTA big badda boom in that little case, that's for certain! No pictures, sorry, but I have a few left over I'll send down the line next range trip - these definitely get the crowd's attention! |
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Try wiping the face of the cylinder off between each loading. Remington's jam up quickly when using Black Powder. I prefer Colts, with a lubed arbor I can shoot all week and then clean. I also need to load some BP 45 Colt one of these days. I actually have everything to do it. Just need to sit down and do it. |
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Nice, those conversion cylinders are convenient and fun. I put one in an old Armi San Paolo. The Uberti cylinder dropped right in. I also have a Pietta Sheriff's model on the way and I'm considering doing the full conversion with a load gate but the 6 shot versions are all out of stock. Cutting the gate is easy but nerve racking at first. I did the Pietta 1860 snubby a few years ago with a Dremel, easy. |
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Originally Posted By armoredman: I am very much considering buying one for my Uberti 1860, as well. https://i.imgur.com/dabKa7L.jpg A couple of pics from the last time I fired BP cartridges in the New Model Army. The smoke was too thick to get accurate readings from the chronograph. https://i.imgur.com/jctXDKo.jpg https://i.imgur.com/8Sn7Y27.jpg I'd recommend a gated conversion cylinder for your 1860 and cutting the recoil shield for the gate. I had a Howel conversion cylinder for my Pietta 1860 and it just made everything more tedious having to remove the barrel to load the cylinder. |
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Originally Posted By armoredman: I've done that for years. https://i.imgur.com/auVtUHB.jpg https://i.imgur.com/6areNwO.jpg https://i.imgur.com/4HXIurh.jpg I've also done paper cartridges as well, just for grins and giggle. They worked very well in the New Model Army. https://i.imgur.com/FbT2gS4.jpg I'm just wanting to try something different, that's all. “Must not go down this rabbit hole” |
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The rabbit hole beckons thee... I had considered the loading gate conversion, but the expense is enough that I'd probably keep this one stock and buy a factory conversion revolver instead. The conversion cylinder probably would be a pain, especially as fouling cakes and that barrel doesn't want to slide off the arbor, if shooting BP cartridge. It's a thought on the back burner. |
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