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The IWI carmel (Page 5 of 12)
I just can’t warm up to that handguard at all.  Too bad the original style Carmel rifles aren’t available, I’d have a couple by now. IWI CARMEL  CARMEL Extreme Conditions - Sand |
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Originally Posted By LIONHART: I just can’t warm up to that handguard at all. Too bad the original style Carmel rifles aren’t available, I’d have a couple by now. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PQsSFFT8I6s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TgE_5Opq6kEAbsolutely! I’d have 2 (one SBR) seeing as they would rather let them set not being sold and collecting dust than admit they should’ve listened to the customers I doubt we’ll ever see the OG. |
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Originally Posted By LIONHART: I just can’t warm up to that handguard at all. Too bad the original style Carmel rifles aren’t available, I’d have a couple by now. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PQsSFFT8I6s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TgE_5Opq6kEBut a lot of guys said you have to make into an AR15 if you want them to sell. You just have to have that long Mlok handguard…. Sorry, but if I wanted an AR, I’d buy another AR. |
I can’t stand it to think my life is going so fast and I’m not really living it.
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Originally Posted By Dissident: But Originally Posted By Dissident: But Originally Posted By Dissident: Sorry, but if I wanted an AR, I’d buy another AR. |
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Originally Posted By CJofFL: ^^^ not sure if it’s true, but I read it was more like this ^^^. That said… Originally Posted By CJofFL: Originally Posted By Dissident: But I don't know. Clearly this mentality influenced IWI, but I do seem to recall there being comments here early on from some posters that felt IWI was making the right decision, not that ARFcom has/had any influence. I was just speaking more in general terms on the industry as a whole because of the fact that CZ did the same thing with the Bren 2 and IWI also did it before with the Ace. You'd think the would have learned? |
I can’t stand it to think my life is going so fast and I’m not really living it.
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There are a bazillion ARs out there and non-ARs will always lose the argument against ARs when it comes down to "what will it do that an AR won't do?" The only people buying the Carmel likely want it because it's a Carmel, not because they want to do AR stuff with a rifle almost as good as but more expensive than ARs. So make it a Carmel or don't bother. IMO. |
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Originally Posted By ken_mays: There are a bazillion ARs out there and non-ARs will always lose the argument against ARs when it comes down to "what will it do that an AR won't do?" The only people buying the Carmel likely want it because it's a Carmel, not because they want to do AR stuff with a rifle almost as good as but more expensive than ARs. So make it a Carmel or don't bother. IMO. I’m buying it because i like it and its not an AR, but it also doesnt get a ton of love as far as the new rifles on the market go. |
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Originally Posted By Slimjim: Anyone have one and the Tavor 7, it looks like the same gas block and plug It’s not entirely impossible, the F(S)2000 and SCAR-16(S) share a lot of similarities in their gas systems. Like their gas blocks, plugs, and pistons are near identical, but the carriers are fairly divergent. Some of that is just reusing what makes sense from a manufacturing or design standpoint. Don’t reinvent the wheel! |
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| I keep bidding on used Carmels down in the $600-$800 range then lose interest when the auction price gets higher. My experience with the platform wasn’t great but I was judging it based on the high price they carried the first week of release. Below $1k, it seems to offer enough to take another chance on it. |
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I picked up like new in the box for $1200. Not a bad rifle. Yes it is heavy, bulky and all that yet different. No AR replacement for sure. I have just about every rifle including ARX100 and so far Carmel compares ok. This wouldn’t not be my first choice but not as bad as the internet makes it out to be. |
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Originally Posted By unrock: I picked up like new in the box for $1200. Not a bad rifle. Yes it is heavy, bulky and all that yet different. No AR replacement for sure. I have just about every rifle including ARX100 and so far Carmel compares ok. This wouldn’t not be my first choice but not as bad as the internet makes it out to be. Has yours been reliable? My first one wouldn’t cycle steel cased .223 ammo. I’m hearing you have to break it in with premium ammo to get them to be reliable. |
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Originally Posted By playinARound: According to reviews, Carmel is accurate and reliable. I wonder why it isn’t more popular. Is it the weight? Because it’s too similar to an AR? If you want AR features, just buy an AR for less money. |
I can’t stand it to think my life is going so fast and I’m not really living it.
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Originally Posted By Dissident: Because it’s too similar to an AR? If you want AR features, just buy an AR for less money. Originally Posted By Dissident: Originally Posted By playinARound: According to reviews, Carmel is accurate and reliable. I wonder why it isn’t more popular. Is it the weight? Because it’s too similar to an AR? If you want AR features, just buy an AR for less money. That’s pretty much true of any imported 5.56 that isn’t an AR. I think it’s because it’s too different from the original for most people. A lot of people who are interested in foreign guns want as close a copy of the original as they can legally get. That’s the appeal, not that these guns are materially superior to a cheaper AR. IWI-USA changed it too much, especially the handguard, IMHO. |
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Originally Posted By willi3d: That’s pretty much true of any imported 5.56 that isn’t an AR. I think it’s because it’s too different from the original for most people. A lot of people who are interested in foreign guns want as close a copy of the original as they can legally get. That’s the appeal, not that these guns are materially superior to a cheaper AR. IWI-USA changed it too much, especially the handguard, IMHO. Yes, this has been discussed at length here. They aren't selling because they have been reworked to appeal to a nonexistent "modern alternative to the AR" market. Same problem with the Galil ACE rifles -- everyone wants the Gen 1 instead of the Gen 2. To hell with the generic Mlok foreend and dorky M4-ish collapsible folder - tube stock or bust! |
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Originally Posted By willi3d: But you’ll spend $999 on something you’ll never shoot or use? Yeah. Safe full of guns I don’t shoot all that much and don’t really consider front line self defense guns. Just cool firearms to add to the collection and enjoy on the occasion. |
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Originally Posted By willi3d: I thought the tactical tuna was the FN FS2000. Or are you thinking of the Beretta ARX-100? Originally Posted By willi3d: Originally Posted By ClickClickBoom1: This thing is going the way of Beretta's tactical tuna. I thought the tactical tuna was the FN FS2000. Or are you thinking of the Beretta ARX-100? The original tactical tuna was the F(S)2000. I think the ARX is more like the slammin’ salmon.  In a sense, both the F2000 and ARX were more successful as they were adopted by militaries at some scale. The ARX having the Beretta home field advantage in Italy, while the F2000 had to compete with FN’s other successful products in Belgium, but found some success in Eastern Europe. The Carmel isn’t going to be adopted in Israel. It’s a good design overall, as compromised as the US version is with the stupid handguard and deleted barrel change option. But Israel is already pretty deep into the AR/M4/M16 and they are committed to the Tavor X95 at some level as well. I think the Arad could eat into some of the HK416’s market if they priced it aggressively. The Carmel just doesn’t offer much otherwise. Honestly I think IWI should release a “Tavor 5” that takes the hybrid SAR/X95 design features of the Tavor 7 and scales it down to 5.56; that seems more on-brand than the Carmel. |
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Update - https://imgur.com/a/8yRXjab Got a little more done. Obviously needs more work on the back but I am having this model get 3d printed now to check some measurements. The plan is to have the "rear" panels not be removable, and just part of the handguard. If this ends up not working, then sure I'll go back and make it a separate piece. The 2 front and single bottom rail covers will be modeled last. The measurements aren't "perfect" because the US version doesn't have the same design. You can see what i mean just by counting the picatinny rails at the top where the handgaurd and reciever split. This has directly affected the angle of the forward slope section to compensate for that difference. I am only doing this because I have not seen an update from Sven on this project, and Desert Tech informed me they will be releasing the handgaurd on their NGSW prototype for the WLVRN. So since I am getting my christmas wish fullfilled, I will see if I can help others get theirs. Sven if you are out there, let me know where you are at. |
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Originally Posted By Mechabot4: Update - https://imgur.com/a/8yRXjab Got a little more done. Obviously needs more work on the back but I am having this model get 3d printed now to check some measurements. The plan is to have the "rear" panels not be removable, and just part of the handguard. If this ends up not working, then sure I'll go back and make it a separate piece. The 2 front and single bottom rail covers will be modeled last. The measurements aren't "perfect" because the US version doesn't have the same design. You can see what i mean just by counting the picatinny rails at the top where the handgaurd and reciever split. This has directly affected the angle of the forward slope section to compensate for that difference. I am only doing this because I have not seen an update from Sven on this project, and Desert Tech informed me they will be releasing the handgaurd on their NGSW prototype for the WLVRN. So since I am getting my christmas wish fullfilled, I will see if I can help others get theirs. Sven if you are out there, let me know where you are at. Attached File Looks good |
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Originally Posted By Mechabot4: Update - https://imgur.com/a/8yRXjab Got a little more done. Obviously needs more work on the back but I am having this model get 3d printed now to check some measurements. The plan is to have the "rear" panels not be removable, and just part of the handguard. If this ends up not working, then sure I'll go back and make it a separate piece. The 2 front and single bottom rail covers will be modeled last. The measurements aren't "perfect" because the US version doesn't have the same design. You can see what i mean just by counting the picatinny rails at the top where the handgaurd and reciever split. This has directly affected the angle of the forward slope section to compensate for that difference. I am only doing this because I have not seen an update from Sven on this project, and Desert Tech informed me they will be releasing the handgaurd on their NGSW prototype for the WLVRN. So since I am getting my christmas wish fullfilled, I will see if I can help others get theirs. Sven if you are out there, let me know where you are at. We don't have any plans to do a Carmel forend at this time, there just aren't enough guns out there to justify the tooling cost. (Just looking at it you can see the difficulty in molding that forend- it would be an extremely complex mold!) You are doing great work there, and look forward to what you can produce! Our in house Carmel might need one of these if you make the file or physical product available.  Sven Manticore Arms |
Advanced Fighting Gear for the AR, AK, AUG, Tavor, and Scorpion EVO! www.manticorearms.com
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Originally Posted By Manticore_Arms: We don't have any plans to do a Carmel forend at this time, there just aren't enough guns out there to justify the tooling cost. (Just looking at it you can see the difficulty in molding that forend- it would be an extremely complex mold!) You are doing great work there, and look forward to what you can produce! Our in house Carmel might need one of these if you make the file or physical product available. Sven Manticore Arms Originally Posted By Manticore_Arms: Originally Posted By Mechabot4: Update - https://imgur.com/a/8yRXjab Got a little more done. Obviously needs more work on the back but I am having this model get 3d printed now to check some measurements. The plan is to have the "rear" panels not be removable, and just part of the handguard. If this ends up not working, then sure I'll go back and make it a separate piece. The 2 front and single bottom rail covers will be modeled last. The measurements aren't "perfect" because the US version doesn't have the same design. You can see what i mean just by counting the picatinny rails at the top where the handgaurd and reciever split. This has directly affected the angle of the forward slope section to compensate for that difference. I am only doing this because I have not seen an update from Sven on this project, and Desert Tech informed me they will be releasing the handgaurd on their NGSW prototype for the WLVRN. So since I am getting my christmas wish fullfilled, I will see if I can help others get theirs. Sven if you are out there, let me know where you are at. We don't have any plans to do a Carmel forend at this time, there just aren't enough guns out there to justify the tooling cost. (Just looking at it you can see the difficulty in molding that forend- it would be an extremely complex mold!) You are doing great work there, and look forward to what you can produce! Our in house Carmel might need one of these if you make the file or physical product available. Sven Manticore Arms |
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Great deal even if it's from PSA. |
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Originally Posted By swampfoxoutdoors: https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/424008/IMG_1367_jpeg-3385323.JPG Looks good Originally Posted By swampfoxoutdoors: Originally Posted By Mechabot4: Update - https://imgur.com/a/8yRXjab Got a little more done. Obviously needs more work on the back but I am having this model get 3d printed now to check some measurements. The plan is to have the "rear" panels not be removable, and just part of the handguard. If this ends up not working, then sure I'll go back and make it a separate piece. The 2 front and single bottom rail covers will be modeled last. The measurements aren't "perfect" because the US version doesn't have the same design. You can see what i mean just by counting the picatinny rails at the top where the handgaurd and reciever split. This has directly affected the angle of the forward slope section to compensate for that difference. I am only doing this because I have not seen an update from Sven on this project, and Desert Tech informed me they will be releasing the handgaurd on their NGSW prototype for the WLVRN. So since I am getting my christmas wish fullfilled, I will see if I can help others get theirs. Sven if you are out there, let me know where you are at. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/424008/IMG_1367_jpeg-3385323.JPG Looks good I’d love to see this come to reality |
The IWI carmel (Page 5 of 12)
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