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Springfield Kuna about to be released (Page 3 of 11)
| Scorpion mags aren’t necessary the best 9mm mags in the world, but a lot of us have a lot of them already. Like myself. Would want at least 10 mags and more like 20. I think most would as well. That adds hundreds of dollars to the cost of the system. Proprietary mags add nothing. Most new 5.56 guns wisely use AR mags |
| Scorpion mags aren’t necessary the best 9mm mags in the world, but a lot of us have a lot of them already. Like myself. Would want at least 10 mags and more like 20. I think most would as well. That adds hundreds of dollars to the cost of the system. Proprietary mags add nothing. Most new 5.56 guns wisely use AR mags |
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Originally Posted By StillGonnaSendIt: After seeing the pics here I'm actually excited. Wonder if there will be any third parties supporting it? How's the trigger on it compared to the sp9? Picked mine up at the LGS this morning. I don’t have a SP9, but the Kuna trigger is better than the one that came in my SP45. ETA: For those SBR’ing, are you listing HSProdukt in Croatia (manufacturer) or SA (importer)? ETA2: Went for HSProdukt. Will see how it goes. |
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Originally Posted By triode: Haga Defense working on stock/ brace option. Under development. https://hagadefense.com/hda3-stock-brace-for-springfield-kuna/ $350!!! I suspect there will be as good or better options for a lot less than that. |
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I don't understand the fervor over the mags. They're essentially $25 Croatian Lancer mags, like the MPX ones that are $50 or whatever. I got six from Springfield's site, they've already shipped, the gun comes with two. I'll probably buy more over time if it works as well as it seems. HS Produkt wants to tightly control the variables around the gun; they did this for the VHS-2 as well. For a while, we all thought the OEM mags were a G36 clone. Turns out they are VERY similar but different enough that they cannot interchange. This guarantees the weapon will only be used with known magazines specifically developed for it and newly produced. No questionable mid-90s G36 mags someone found in the Balkans from someone else that didn't need them anymore. It's probably more an acquiescence to the US and NATO market that they created the STANAG mag well for it, on top of knowing there are DECADES of excellent quality magazines for that standard. Scorpion mags are all over the place. Which do you develop against? OEM CZ Gen 1? Gen 2? Magpul? PSA? That standard is only a player in the US market and HS-P are providing their own low-cost option. No one seems to bitch about all the new handguns that come out requiring $60 mags. The original development of the Kuna was for PMESP in Brazil in .40. The only existing options would be a Glock .40 mag, which is single feed, and the quality Austrian ones only go up to 22 rounds or so, otherwise you're getting Korean or Kriss Vector extensions; alternatively, the HK UMP-40 mag which is out of production now, expensive as shit, and bulky. So designing a new mag was the only logical solution, and that would dictate the dimensions, with an eye I'm sure to backport to 9mm for international sales. Now they can guarantee any gun that's shipped is being used with brand new mags and not some sketchy stuff from east Asia or a back alley warehouse. |
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Originally Posted By Findsman: I don't understand the fervor over the mags. They're essentially $25 Croatian Lancer mags, like the MPX ones that are $50 or whatever. I got six from Springfield's site, they've already shipped, the gun comes with two. I'll probably buy more over time if it works as well as it seems. HS Produkt wants to tightly control the variables around the gun; they did this for the VHS-2 as well. For a while, we all thought the OEM mags were a G36 clone. Turns out they are VERY similar but different enough that they cannot interchange. This guarantees the weapon will only be used with known magazines specifically developed for it and newly produced. No questionable mid-90s G36 mags someone found in the Balkans from someone else that didn't need them anymore. It's probably more an acquiescence to the US and NATO market that they created the STANAG mag well for it, on top of knowing there are DECADES of excellent quality magazines for that standard. Scorpion mags are all over the place. Which do you develop against? OEM CZ Gen 1? Gen 2? Magpul? PSA? That standard is only a player in the US market and HS-P are providing their own low-cost option. No one seems to bitch about all the new handguns that come out requiring $60 mags. The original development of the Kuna was for PMESP in Brazil in .40. The only existing options would be a Glock .40 mag, which is single feed, and the quality Austrian ones only go up to 22 rounds or so, otherwise you're getting Korean or Kriss Vector extensions; alternatively, the HK UMP-40 mag which is out of production now, expensive as shit, and bulky. So designing a new mag was the only logical solution, and that would dictate the dimensions, with an eye I'm sure to backport to 9mm for international sales. Now they can guarantee any gun that's shipped is being used with brand new mags and not some sketchy stuff from east Asia or a back alley warehouse. Or they could just make exact copies of Scorpion mags. HS Produkt appears to have little shame in copying other designs. |
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Just ordered one from out of state. Got a pretty good deal on it. since it doesn't come with a bag/case and I haven't had a PCC for close to 10 years now, what do you guys recommend for a range bag? I'm thinking of just a basic Jansport backpack since it's so small |
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Any word yet on the availability of that OE stock? (mine is coming with the brace) I don't have any SBR's yet, but the Kuna with that OE stock is a pretty tempting place to start. |
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Originally Posted By scottrh2: Damn, the amount of butt-hurt over cheap magazines is actually surprising yet not surprising. Honestly I also was a bit put off at first by the proprietary mags. But after seeing them up close, watching how they perform, and given that they are low cost (given the ultra sturdy construction, I was imagining pricing more like $40-$50 each, similar to MPX mags), I decided that it was just an annoyance, not a blocker. Proprietary mags did not stop me from buying other PCC's so it would be an illogical place to take a hard stand now. Anyway, that was how I justified it for myself. YMMV, etc. |
Beware the Liberal. Let him not breed in great numbers, for he will make a desert of his home and yours. Shun him; drive him back into his jungle lair, for he is the harbinger of death.
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Originally Posted By scottrh2: Damn, the amount of butt-hurt over cheap magazines is actually surprising yet not surprising. You could buy ~8 mags Or use existing mags like scorpion and have it SBRed For same amount of money |
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Picked mine up this morning Attached File Threw on an old brace off an AK pistol that got SBR'ed, I think I actually like the triangle-folder aesthetic. I'll pull it apart later but pretty solid initial impressions. I love the dual-mode sights. Charging is pretty smooth, trigger is a little mushy but if you've been doing this long enough you learn "meh, good enough" eventually. Safety is pretty stiff and awkward, I could see that being a product for someone. Ambi mag release and bolt stop/release is slick. Don't like the grip, not sure if I blame HS-P or Springfield for that, since the VHS/Hellion shipped with a similarly angled one. The mags are nice, feel like quality items. Immediate plans, swap the grip out, put on a red dot. I have a tri-lug adapter on the way so the funny little comp will go. Future (next week?) plans, SBR it so I can have a real stock and VFG. 
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I can't believe someone got one and already had a F1 approved to SBR it. Mine is supposed to get dropped at the gun store on Monday. I totally forgot about RangeUSA and possibly could have had one in my hands already if I did more pre-purchase searching. I'm going to see how I like it before ordering a bunch more mags. |
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Took mine out to the indoor range today. Thought the trigger was decent. Safety was stiff, and found it best to turn off with the thumb like normal, but engage using the trigger finger on the other side. Removed the comp/brake and replaced with a tri-lug adapter so I could run my Wolfman. The flip up sights are shorter than normal AR height, so if you use an AR cowitness mount, you won’t even see the sights in the window when flipped up. I used a low mount, and the sights are lower 1/3 in the window. Alternatively, you could use a high see-through mount. |
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My mags came in today. Seem solid and well made at a good price. Kind of like a MPX mag and a CZ Scorpion mag having a baby that took the best DNA from both. My gun is due to LGS on Monday. That AK brace reminds me I have one sitting around as well. Plus an MPX brace. Regardless it will get F1'd pretty quickly. |
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Originally Posted By bballman25: I’ve read that the serialized part of the pistol is the upper. When you guys are SBRing this, where are you engraving? Definitely SN's on the upper and bolt... I didn't see it on the lower at all. 
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Beware the Liberal. Let him not breed in great numbers, for he will make a desert of his home and yours. Shun him; drive him back into his jungle lair, for he is the harbinger of death.
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Originally Posted By bballman25: I’ve read that the serialized part of the pistol is the upper. When you guys are SBRing this, where are you engraving? I plan to engrave on the underside of the upper just in front of the lower front pivot point. I don’t plan to put anything large in the bottom M-Lok slots, so they won’t get covered up. |
Apparently I ordered a 1/2x36 tri-lug adapter. Doh!  1/2x28 will be here mid-week now. Guess this means I should build another Colt-pattern AR-9!I dug out an old MIAD grip and replaced the OEM one, much better. I think that classic Magpul grip angle is just about perfect for everything. Haven’t gotten to the range myself but I did spend some more time playing with it and comparing to the Scorpion and MP5. I was wrong about the trigger, it is really nice, better than the others. I think the CZ edges out on the mag well and release, the button on the Kuna is definitely fine but I was finding myself looking for a paddle. That may be a me-problem though. The Kuna’s mag well is better than the MP5 but not as good as the CZ. It doesn’t have the best of funnel shapes and the lock up is almost imperceptible. I could see some sort of a funnel extension as a good product too. The bolt release is a million times better on the Kuna though. I like the charging a lot. I still have the stock one on my CZ and it kinda sucks. Being straight blowback there’s a lot more spring pressure and it’s a tiny little handle. The Kuna is perfectly sized and the action is smooth: tiny bit of resistance as it unlocks then an easy pull back. MP5 is pretty smooth as well, the 9mm is easy mode compared to the 5.56 and .308 actions, ha. Looking at the bolt, it isn’t modular at all, basically the same as the CZ or UMP. The barrel appears to be retained by some screws in the trunnion area. Ejector is attached via the two screws on the side of the gun. If Springfield ever did a caliber conversion kit, it looks straightforward enough but it will require an entire bolt, basically the same idea as the UMP but not as easy. (Though I’ve broken an ejector in the UMP when I didn’t line it up right on a change.) If they do release a .40 version I’ll just buy a separate one unless a conversion kit is crazy cheap. Overall, it handles well and feels like a quality firearm. It sits in a size space between the MP5 and MP5K, I tend to like the full-size better but there’s a purpose for all designs. This one was Brazilian military police, so it makes sense from a law enforcement perspective. Hopefully I’ll get out to play before too long as I’m sure it shoots as nice as it handles. |
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Originally Posted By Findsman: (snipped for brevity) I think the CZ edges out on the mag well and release, the button on the Kuna is definitely fine but I was finding myself looking for a paddle. That may be a me-problem though. The Kuna’s mag well is better than the MP5 but not as good as the CZ. It doesn’t have the best of funnel shapes and the lock up is almost imperceptible. I could see some sort of a funnel extension as a good product too. The bolt release is a million times better on the Kuna though. I like the charging a lot. I still have the stock one on my CZ and it kinda sucks. Being straight blowback there’s a lot more spring pressure and it’s a tiny little handle. The Kuna is perfectly sized and the action is smooth: tiny bit of resistance as it unlocks then an easy pull back. MP5 is pretty smooth as well, the 9mm is easy mode compared to the 5.56 and .308 actions, ha. Looking at the bolt, it isn’t modular at all, basically the same as the CZ or UMP. The barrel appears to be retained by some screws in the trunnion area. Ejector is attached via the two screws on the side of the gun. If Springfield ever did a caliber conversion kit, it looks straightforward enough but it will require an entire bolt, basically the same idea as the UMP but not as easy. (Though I’ve broken an ejector in the UMP when I didn’t line it up right on a change.) If they do release a .40 version I’ll just buy a separate one unless a conversion kit is crazy cheap. (snipped for brevity) I can agree with almost all of your observations. Exceptions: * The mag lock-in is very perceptible on mine. Maybe yours just needs a little usage to make it 'click' more audibly? * From what I can tell, the barrel is held in by a short threaded sleeve installed from the muzzle end, much like the Stribog. I think the screws you see in the trunnion area are the replaceable feed ramp? I've attached a slightly fuzzy exploded diagram I found online, but on it you can see the barrel attachment castellated threaded sleeve (#4 in the diagram) and the replaceable feed ramp and screws (#23). 
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Beware the Liberal. Let him not breed in great numbers, for he will make a desert of his home and yours. Shun him; drive him back into his jungle lair, for he is the harbinger of death.
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Originally Posted By terryj: It seems the 40 cal is being listed on a few retailer sights. I guess it's coming soon. Model KN90640B, KN90640BFSA UPC 706397988708, 706397988975 Well, that ought to make about half a dozen people happy... 
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Originally Posted By ALASKANFIRE: Any chance it's an easy swap between calibers? Minimally a new bolt and a new barrel (obviously), and possibly the recoil spring assembly and the delay weight at the front of the bolt. Probably the upper and lower receivers are the same (no reason for them to be different). Would be very informative if someone had a magazine from a 40SW and test fit it into the magwell in the lower for the 9mm. Hard to imagine why they would change the lower for the two calibers, but you never know. Mechanically, it might be not difficult IF the uppers and lowers are the same, but once you buy a new bolt and barrel (plus whatever else might be needed) -- probably not economically viable. And if they used the same amount of force and loctite/rockset that Stribog apparently uses for their similar barrel attachment method, you might be dissuaded from removing that barrel more than once.
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Beware the Liberal. Let him not breed in great numbers, for he will make a desert of his home and yours. Shun him; drive him back into his jungle lair, for he is the harbinger of death.
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Originally Posted By Kent: Well, that ought to make about half a dozen people happy... Originally Posted By Kent: Originally Posted By terryj: It seems the 40 cal is being listed on a few retailer sights. I guess it's coming soon. Model KN90640B, KN90640BFSA UPC 706397988708, 706397988975 Well, that ought to make about half a dozen people happy... It’s me, I’m one of those six oh well, this is what layaway is for! https://www.lipseys.com/itemfinder?page=1&mfg=Springfield+Armory&family=KUNA+Series Also 10-round versions for those you stuck in crappy places. |
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Originally Posted By Findsman: It’s me, I’m one of those six oh well, this is what layaway is for! https://www.lipseys.com/itemfinder?page=1&mfg=Springfield+Armory&family=KUNA+Series Also 10-round versions for those you stuck in crappy places. Why would Lipseys sell the Kuna magazines for $44.99 when Springfield sells them for $25.00?? |
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Originally Posted By bballman25: Why would Lipseys sell the Kuna magazines for $44.99 when Springfield sells them for $25.00?? I wouldn’t worry about the distributor MSRP; they list Gen 5 MOS Glocks at $745 and those are $620 street. Behind the scenes, dealers are probably paying $15-20 a piece, the MSRP gives them working room. Walk into a gun store and see one at $45 and you’ll know they are raking customers over the coals. I imagine the MAP is the $25 Springfield themselves is selling at. |
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Originally Posted By:spydercomonkey I believe the looks are based on the Military stock, which is nice and thick like the Scrorpion factory stock, and the Brace, which is light and doesn't balance out the aesthetics as well. Military prototype: https://www.defesanet.com.br/wp-content/uploads/2024/10/Springfield-Armory-Metralhadora-KUNA.jpg Brace: https://i.ibb.co/ZR2N0HcN/28216-DEFAULT-l.webp Some guy just got his SBR'd with a chunkier stock and VFG, looks a lot cooler imo. This is the same Kuna we can buy. https://i.redd.it/djtp22rvkxue1.jpeg What is name of the stock on that first photo? @spydercomonkey |
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Originally Posted By bulldog1967: What is name of the stock on that first photo? @spydercomonkey Originally Posted By bulldog1967: Originally Posted By:spydercomonkey I believe the looks are based on the Military stock, which is nice and thick like the Scrorpion factory stock, and the Brace, which is light and doesn't balance out the aesthetics as well. Military prototype: https://www.defesanet.com.br/wp-content/uploads/2024/10/Springfield-Armory-Metralhadora-KUNA.jpg Brace: https://i.ibb.co/ZR2N0HcN/28216-DEFAULT-l.webp Some guy just got his SBR'd with a chunkier stock and VFG, looks a lot cooler imo. This is the same Kuna we can buy. https://i.redd.it/djtp22rvkxue1.jpeg What is name of the stock on that first photo? @spydercomonkey Yes please, that first one (mil prototype) is the one I am looking for. If it isn't in production, hopefully someone makes something like it. |
Beware the Liberal. Let him not breed in great numbers, for he will make a desert of his home and yours. Shun him; drive him back into his jungle lair, for he is the harbinger of death.
| I’d imagine it’s simply the OEM stock made by HS Produkt for the Kuna. Haven’t seen it for sale by anyone in the U.S. Would have to be brought in by SA or someone else. The stock on that SBR’d one is a SiG stock. I submitted a F1 on mine and am planning on either the SI stock endcap to replace the brace endcap, or a Lage 1913 folding stock. |
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Originally Posted By bulldog1967: What is name of the stock on that first photo? @spydercomonkey Originally Posted By bulldog1967: Originally Posted By:spydercomonkey I believe the looks are based on the Military stock, which is nice and thick like the Scrorpion factory stock, and the Brace, which is light and doesn't balance out the aesthetics as well. Military prototype: https://www.defesanet.com.br/wp-content/uploads/2024/10/Springfield-Armory-Metralhadora-KUNA.jpg Brace: https://i.ibb.co/ZR2N0HcN/28216-DEFAULT-l.webp Some guy just got his SBR'd with a chunkier stock and VFG, looks a lot cooler imo. This is the same Kuna we can buy. https://i.redd.it/djtp22rvkxue1.jpeg What is name of the stock on that first photo? @spydercomonkey Its the Military stock shown on their full auto SMG prototype in Europe. No idea where to get one or if they will be imported. Closest 'chonk' stock I think is the Zhukov, but more googling / checking CZ Scorpion stock options may reveal something closer. https://hagadefense.com/zhukov-stock-with-1913-adapter/ |
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Originally Posted By Findsman: Picked mine up this morning https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/35747/kuna_jpg-3519989.JPG Threw on an old brace off an AK pistol that got SBR'ed, I think I actually like the triangle-folder aesthetic. Triangle looks great man, I think that goes really well, way more 'balanced' visually than the slender factory brace. |
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Originally Posted By spydercomonkey: Triangle looks great man, I think that goes really well, way more 'balanced' visually than the slender factory brace. Posted this in GD just now, 3-lug and pistol grip updates. It looks more "right" with the 3-lug on the barrel. Attached File |
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Just picked it up today. Still waiting on my 3lug but really liking it so far. two observations: 1) it was almost bone dry - not completely, But it had far less lube/preserv on it the. Anything else I've purchased recently. 2) holy fuck is that safety selector stiff! Every time I manipulate it, I'm convinced it's about to break. |
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Originally Posted By willi3d: Got my F1 approved on Wednesday. Stock is from A3 Industries. Right now, I just have a handstop on it. Not sure if I want to go with a VFG. https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/xq70/923/Hln7s2.jpg Thinking about form 1 ing mine to |
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Originally Posted By willi3d: Underneath the front, between the rear of the bottom half-slot and the front of the lower. Originally Posted By willi3d: Originally Posted By right_rudder: Where did you end up engraving? Thinking about form 1 ing mine to Underneath the front, between the rear of the bottom half-slot and the front of the lower. |
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Looks like Springfield already has the 40 listed within their app/support area Attached File |
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With my Form 1 submitted, I have been assessing stocks for the KUNA. I shot it with my PSA AK triangle brace, and needed to attach it to the lower/middle of the pic rail to get a sight picture on the folding sights (in up position.) As pictured below, the KUNA SMG stock has a cheek weld that is well below the top of the gun. Many of the 1913 rail stocks I looked at give a cheek weld that aligns with the top of the pic adapter, or curve up/have cheek piece, which makes them less than ideal. Also, the PSA stock, at 9.5 inches, feels OK length-wise. Ideally I would like something that is at least 9 inches and can extend (adjustable) to 10 inches or so. The factory SMG stock goes from 7.4 to 9.2 if my math is right. My goal is get an OEM stock at some point, but that could be a while given I heard Springfield has no plans to import. What stocks are others planning to use? Attached File |
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I used the stock from A3 Industries as shown above. It’s the Lage stock with the A3 1913 adapter. I have the cheekrest for it, but took it off. Unfortunately, until someone makes an adapter for the Kuna, you’re limited to 1913 stocks. On another note, the m-lok slots are a bit too narrow on mine. The locking nuts on some of the grips that I tried won’t fit through the slots. Those same grips work fine on every other m-lok forend that I have, so it’s definitely a Kuna thing. |
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Originally Posted By right_rudder: Looks like Springfield already has the 40 listed within their app/support area https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/313055/IMG_1847_png-3528043.JPG The 12 people who still use 40 will be so happy |
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That new Magpul one looks good, ETA: just watched the video, it does fold, configurable either way. Neato |
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Originally Posted By craig24680: The 12 people who still use 40 will be so happy Originally Posted By craig24680: Originally Posted By right_rudder: Looks like Springfield already has the 40 listed within their app/support area https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/313055/IMG_1847_png-3528043.JPG The 12 people who still use 40 will be so happy
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Originally Posted By Jakezor: That new Magpul one looks good, ETA: just watched the video, it does fold, configurable either way. Neato Dang, that looks good. |
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Originally Posted By Jakezor: That new Magpul one looks good, ETA: just watched the video, it does fold, configurable either way. Neato That is a contender. I was also looking at the ZHUKOV-S stock with an adapter - I have one on my Scorpion. It is a bit thick is the only concern. |
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Originally Posted By right_rudder: I hear ya. However in an effort to be inclusive, I thought I'd share Originally Posted By right_rudder: Originally Posted By craig24680: Originally Posted By right_rudder: Looks like Springfield already has the 40 listed within their app/support area https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/313055/IMG_1847_png-3528043.JPG The 12 people who still use 40 will be so happy Hey, it was originally designed for 40, so I feel like it is the most authentic version. I’ll go have a beer with the other 11 people.
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Springfield Kuna about to be released (Page 3 of 11)
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