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Sigh.....my nephew made a mistake buying an M1. (Page 1 of 2)
Posted: 9/20/2024 9:29:52 PM EDT
[Last Edit: SteelonSteel][Edited]
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My nephew is a big WW2 buff and has been wanting an M1 since before he shot mine. He found one that looked clean had a nice figured stock (commercial replacement). He takes it up to my place today so I can go through it with him. I check headspace. a little tension on the No Go....check. Go to punch the bore to get a look at it.......I can tell by feel this ain’t good. Lots of scrubbing to show more pitting. No rifling at all in the last 3/4”. Not sure if it was just a dirty bore or if someone lined the pitted bore with beeswax on a patch to hide the pits.  We cleaned it and greased it and gave it a test fire anyhow. It’ll work for plinking but he’ll need a new barrel. $295 parts plus a $140-150 labor, plus shipping to get it done. I hate that someone took advantage of him. He doesn’t know what he doesn’t know. I’d do it for him but a M1 action wrench will cost what a service fee for an install by someone who has done more than ARs and a couple FALs. I have reamed a M1a chamber but I have not done a garand barrel install. I’m getting too old to invest in tools for one job. |
The only hyphenated names I like are cartridge names......30-06, 30-40, 38-55 etc.
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Local gun shop to him. Largest in our area and they have about a dozen stores spread out over the capital region. He’s in his twenties and really doesn’t want to pursue it, figures they’ll just say used gun, they’re as is. He’s disappointed. He shelled out over $1600. If you don’t look down the barrel (after cleaning it) then you would think it’s a well cared for gun. I am guessing this was a Korean import that someone parked and dropped in new wood. Not sure why with the rifling gone at the muzzle. Replace barrel and park makes more sense. I told him it was worth going back and showing them the issue. Nothing to lose. They can say sorry it’s as is, take the gun back, refund money, or send it to their gunsmith, replace the barrel ( I doubt) or split the cost of a rebarrel. Well I offered to shoot the owner a note but he really didn’t want me to. I’m not drinking buddys with the owner but I have known him for years. |
The only hyphenated names I like are cartridge names......30-06, 30-40, 38-55 etc.
I doubt the gun shop even knew. The counter man did tell him that it came from a good customer that they do a lot of business with. Having worked in the business, I am betting it’s one of the regular gun hound flippers. That’s the kind of seller that hides a pitted bore. 
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The only hyphenated names I like are cartridge names......30-06, 30-40, 38-55 etc.
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I did a trade a few years ago for a blue sky m1. The barrel was completely shot out. It would swallow a bullet. I sent it to Jeremy at Countryside gunsmithing. He rebarreled ,refinished and fitted a new stock. He was very reasonable on pricing and quick. He's a member here and does excellent work. Here's the rifle after I got it back. 
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That’s a nice looking gun! I think I know who you mean, Jeremy iirc is in his screen name. He seems well acquainted with the M1 for sure. Before I got a flashlight out I did the rough M2 bullet gage in the muzzle test. Right to the brass and still had a lot of lateral wiggle to move the bullet sround. No where close to even snug. Likely .310-311at the muzzle. No step like it was counterbored either. |
The only hyphenated names I like are cartridge names......30-06, 30-40, 38-55 etc.
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1600? Ouch I understand it’s his gun, and he can choose not to go back, but I would definitely address it since it’s from a business. At least so the business knows the guy who sold it to them was hiding its condition. |
A closed mouth gathers no foot.
Make it "Idiot Proof", along comes a better idiot.
Official Site Nickname, given by NorCal - "Smack"
Make it "Idiot Proof", along comes a better idiot.
Official Site Nickname, given by NorCal - "Smack"
| I always keep a 30/06 GI cartridge in my little bag I carry around, I've walked away from many a Garand and a few carbines that initially looked OK. |
Liberals are a curious mix of communism and fascism, they want to destroy you but want to use your own money to do it.
I'm getting down to the last box, the others have all been destroyed...
I'm getting down to the last box, the others have all been destroyed...
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Originally Posted By CA_TX-Cop: 1600? Ouch I understand it’s his gun, and he can choose not to go back, but I would definitely address it since it’s from a business. At least so the business knows the guy who sold it to them was hiding its condition. Yea, I may still drop a note to the owner just so he knows. |
The only hyphenated names I like are cartridge names......30-06, 30-40, 38-55 etc.
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Originally Posted By METT-T: Ooof. $1150 for a CMP Expert Grade right now. It's amazing how many people I talk to who have never heard of the CMP. |
3-7-77
Proud Member of the Leather Head Mafia
“In my opinion, the M1 Rifle is the greatest battle implement ever devised” - George S. Patton
Proud Member of the Leather Head Mafia
“In my opinion, the M1 Rifle is the greatest battle implement ever devised” - George S. Patton
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Originally Posted By METT-T: Ooof. $1150 for a CMP Expert Grade right now. I have been telling him that for four years!  Kids! He was crashing at my place for work last winter. I get up in the morning and see a K98k, bayonet and an ammo can inside my door. He bought it from a kid a work. Sauer and son s147 russian capture. iirc he paid a grand for it which I thought was excessive. Not as bad when I though about the bayonet and ammo can with modern factory 8mm ammo. I did tell him I had one just like it he could have had for half the price. (also a s147 rc). I have three k98ks and still have never shot the other two. 
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The only hyphenated names I like are cartridge names......30-06, 30-40, 38-55 etc.
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Originally Posted By SteelonSteel: That’s a nice looking gun! I think I know who you mean, Jeremy iirc is in his screen name. He seems well acquainted with the M1 for sure. Before I got a flashlight out I did the rough M2 bullet gage in the muzzle test. Right to the brass and still had a lot of lateral wiggle to move the bullet sround. No where close to even snug. Likely .310-311at the muzzle. No step like it was counterbored either. Thanks. Ya that's him. Your description sounds exactly like mine. By chance does it have a blue sky import stamp somewhere on the barrel? I'd definitely recommend calling Jeremy I supplied my own barrel ( I originally bought the barrel to have a local guy install it but he ended up refusing the job. He wasn't familiar enough with the rifle to do the job) that's when I PM'd Jeremy. |
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Ouch sorry to hear that. A bad deal like that can sour someone off a gun for life even if it's one they wanted their whole life. Hope he at least says something to them even if they say so sad to bad it's used. That will at least let him know what type of biz he is dealing with on future used purchases. Best of luck resolving this without sinking another 600 + into it to straighten it out. |
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Excel, Gardner Mass. The other Korean rifle importer iirc. The good news is a rebarrel job tosses the import stamping!  Edit, thanks for listening to my mild venting,.....off to bed! |
The only hyphenated names I like are cartridge names......30-06, 30-40, 38-55 etc.
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Originally Posted By SteelonSteel: Excel, Gardner Mass. The other Korean rifle importer iirc. The good news is a rebarrel job tosses the import stamping! Edit, thanks for listening to my mild venting,.....off to bed! Send it to Tim @ Shuff’s Parkerizing for re-barreling and bite the $$$-bullet and have him install a .308 Criterion tube. Over time the savings on ammo cost (versus the ‘06 chambering) will eventually pay for the barrel. |
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Originally Posted By Bladeswitcher: You pay for your education one way or another. The OP should mind his own business and let his nephew learn his own lessons. You’re correct on the last part. I’m not even a parent and it pisses me off. I asked and he didn’t really want me to fix his problems. I should STFU and MMOB. The only gun I ever got close to that kind of bore pitting was a CMP Krag with decades of blank powder over layers of cupronickel. That took a week to clean out. I think he is disappointed but wanted this long enough he doesn’t want to possibly get a refund and go back to looking. |
The only hyphenated names I like are cartridge names......30-06, 30-40, 38-55 etc.
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Originally Posted By dIIshoots: Not saying a new barrel is a bad idea but did you give it some range time? Just trying to find some good in the purchase.  He did most of the shooting. I shot three rounds from sitting, not slung up. Two within an inch (only 50 yards on my home range)and the third missing likely low off the paper. Off the paper was only a few inches from my two shots. It was actually shooting to the sights it looked like and I used a 6 o’clock hold. His shots were wilder than mine I think. He was bouncing left and right on the paper. We only ran two clips of HXP to see if it ran. He had one stoppage with an ejection and failure to pick up a fresh round. I sent him home with the rest of the bandoleer and an M10 cleaning kit. |
The only hyphenated names I like are cartridge names......30-06, 30-40, 38-55 etc.
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I’ve seen barrels that were so rotten that you could barely see the rifling actually shoot OK at 100 yards. But the pits do fill with powder and copper fouling. Put a new barrel on it as a positive project, and consider the careless purchasing a lesson learned. |
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They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety. - Benjamin Franklin, 1775
They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety. - Benjamin Franklin, 1775
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Geez, didn't anybody tell him about CMP? They've got a whole class of m ones that come with new barrels and new wood and they're a lot less than 1,600 sent right to your house. The one on the left is a rack grade expert. It was like $650 a couple of years ago because it has corrosion that's been reparkerized under the wood line. But with a brand new barrel and new wood it looks just as good or better than my service grade on the right 
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Originally Posted By ztug: Geez, didn't anybody tell him about CMP? They've got a whole class of m ones that come with new barrels and new wood and they're a lot less than 1,600 sent right to your house. The one on the left is a rack grade expert. It was like $650 a couple of years ago because it has corrosion that's been reparkerized under the wood line. But with a brand new barrel and new wood it looks just as good or better than my service grade on the right https://i.imgur.com/hczlHHi.jpg Nice rifles,....yes,....yes I did tell him about the CMP. He has shot my CMP rifles. I guess I was talking to a brick wall though.
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The only hyphenated names I like are cartridge names......30-06, 30-40, 38-55 etc.
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Originally Posted By Escape_from_NY: Capital region? Is this the Albany, New York area? Just curious. The Central Ave store. They’ve always been decent with me. I’ve known the owner since he started out as a counter guy in one of the old businesses that closed shop years ago. He’s a good guy. They’re large enough I doubt they’d play games. They make a good stroke of business they don’t need to play shyster games. |
The only hyphenated names I like are cartridge names......30-06, 30-40, 38-55 etc.
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Originally Posted By SteelonSteel: Local gun shop to him. Largest in our area and they have about a dozen stores spread out over the capital region. He’s in his twenties and really doesn’t want to pursue it, figures they’ll just say used gun, they’re as is. He’s disappointed. He shelled out over $1600. If you don’t look down the barrel (after cleaning it) then you would think it’s a well cared for gun. I am guessing this was a Korean import that someone parked and dropped in new wood. Not sure why with the rifling gone at the muzzle. Replace barrel and park makes more sense. I told him it was worth going back and showing them the issue. Nothing to lose. They can say sorry it’s as is, take the gun back, refund money, or send it to their gunsmith, replace the barrel ( I doubt) or split the cost of a rebarrel. Well I offered to shoot the owner a note but he really didn’t want me to. I’m not drinking buddys with the owner but I have known him for years. The Korean imports back in the day (1990s) were well known to frequently have bores that were counterbored as much as an inch or two to accommodate excessive muzzle wear. Blue Sky was one of the major importers back then, and I still take a really hard look at any Blue Sky I come across. The difference was back then they were dirt cheap so you could just re barrel them and still come out pretty well. Now, pretty much all non CMP Garands are badly over priced, and unfortunately way too many people buy up the CMP Garands just to flip them at a profit (which should be both illegal and prosecuted). |
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Originally Posted By DakotaFAL: The Korean imports back in the day (1990s) were well known to frequently have bores that were counterbored as much as an inch or two to accommodate excessive muzzle wear. Blue Sky was one of the major importers back then, and I still take a really hard look at any Blue Sky I come across. The difference was back then they were dirt cheap so you could just re barrel them and still come out pretty well. Now, pretty much all non CMP Garands are badly over priced, and unfortunately way too many people buy up the CMP Garands just to flip them at a profit (which should be both illegal and prosecuted). I did look for a counter bore but it just washes out, no step crown. I ran the brush down without looking first and felt it go down feeling crunchy not smooth. That’s when I looked, one pass of a nylon brush and there was a lot of debris lifted. (and when I stuck an M2 in the muzzle that swallowed it with room to spare) That’s why I think it was smoothed over. Hard carbon with age would not have come up in chunks right off. Most of it was lifted after about 40 brush strokes with intermittent patching, ten brush strokes, a wet patch to push the junk out, repeat. I took a flashlight and looked for a counterbore. Oh well, he’ll look next time. He’s a good kid and this was a grail gun for him. If there was a used gun in a shop I’d always ask for a rod to hit it quick and patch it if it wasn’t bright and clean. More than one milsurp I had to pass on. I never have been told no when looking over a gun. |
The only hyphenated names I like are cartridge names......30-06, 30-40, 38-55 etc.
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Originally Posted By SteelonSteel: I did look for a counter bore but it just washes out, no step crown. I ran the brush down without looking first and felt it go down feeling crunchy not smooth. That’s when I looked, one pass of a nylon brush and there was a lot of debris lifted. (and when I stuck an M2 in the muzzle that swallowed it with room to spare) That’s why I think it was smoothed over. Hard carbon with age would not have come up in chunks right off. Most of it was lifted after about 40 brush strokes with intermittent patching, ten brush strokes, a wet patch to push the junk out, repeat. I took a flashlight and looked for a counterbore. Oh well, he’ll look next time. He’s a good kid and this was a grail gun for him. If there was a used gun in a shop I’d always ask for a rod to hit it quick and patch it if it wasn’t bright and clean. More than one milsurp I had to pass on. I never have been told no when looking over a gun. There's more than a few guys who have done that very same thing. I am one of those lesson learned fellows.  This all reminds me of the first M1 I threw down 800 bux for. Yeah it was too much but she was calling me. Sounds like nephew learned the same lesson a lot of us did. The beauty in all of it is the gun will probably shoot a mil spec group until the time he wants to throw down more for the next lesson. 
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Originally Posted By DakotaFAL: The Korean imports back in the day (1990s) were well known to frequently have bores that were counterbored as much as an inch or two to accommodate excessive muzzle wear. Blue Sky was one of the major importers back then, and I still take a really hard look at any Blue Sky I come across. The difference was back then they were dirt cheap so you could just re barrel them and still come out pretty well. Now, pretty much all non CMP Garands are badly over priced, and unfortunately way too many people buy up the CMP Garands just to flip them at a profit (which should be both illegal and prosecuted). Yeah, I found a Blue Sky import dirt cheap at a gun show and bought knowing it would need a new barrel. In the end even with the new barrel and stock it was a GREAT deal. The OPs story about $1600 purchase price is just terrible to read. Especially since the kid's heart was the right place wanting to own a piece of history. The seller should be ashamed of themselves. |
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Originally Posted By Nick_Adams: Send it to Tim @ Shuff’s Parkerizing for re-barreling and bite the $$$-bullet and have him install a .308 Criterion tube. Over time the savings on ammo cost (versus the ‘06 chambering) will eventually pay for the barrel. Because my M1 needs a new barrel, I just checked with their web site. All their 30-06 and 308 barrels are sold out. |
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Originally Posted By RockRash: I did a trade a few years ago for a blue sky m1. The barrel was completely shot out. It would swallow a bullet. I sent it to Jeremy at Countryside gunsmithing. He rebarreled ,refinished and fitted a new stock. He was very reasonable on pricing and quick. He's a member here and does excellent work. Here's the rifle after I got it back. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/188534/20230605_222520_jpg-2841805.JPG |
<**Me:**> I just spent 95% of my paycheck on LaRue stuff, within 30 minutes of getting paid. < **mfingar:**> For what it's worth, Dillo Dust is great on Ramen. </**mfingar:**></**me:**>
For a very reasonable price, Jeremy took my old Greek return from the CMP that I never shot: And installed a .308 Criterion barrel, re-arseneled everything, gave it a park job, and dropped it in the Fulton stock I sent along with it:  It's a beaut now, and I shoot it much more. |
<**Me:**> I just spent 95% of my paycheck on LaRue stuff, within 30 minutes of getting paid. < **mfingar:**> For what it's worth, Dillo Dust is great on Ramen. </**mfingar:**></**me:**>
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Originally Posted By Seven-Shooter: For a very reasonable price, Jeremy took my old Greek return from the CMP that I never shot: https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/129976/53AEB7BE-5FDE-4EF9-B06D-88E311A194B3-2465211.jpg And installed a .308 Criterion barrel, re-arseneled everything, gave it a park job, and dropped it in the Fulton stock I sent along with it: https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/129976/36C6BB83-9CFF-49EE-BC66-D1475612D8D4-2556872.jpg It's a beaut now, and I shoot it much more. Stellar job! That old front hand guard looks like a USGI birch or was it one of those firewood Greek almost formed hand guard kits? lol. I don’t see 3/8” inch proud wood on the hand guard so I’m leaning USGI. I’ve actually reworked some salvageable greek beech and stained them to go with an Overton birch stock. |
The only hyphenated names I like are cartridge names......30-06, 30-40, 38-55 etc.
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Jeremy has my blue sky m1 right now.. needed a barrel and looked it over. Stock was compressed and needed to be replaced . Gas cylinder might need to be replaced tbd on it. He’s very knowledgeable about m1s very professional and pleasant to deal with. Even though the op paid more than should they will go up in value. I over paid for mine in because you only could buy one for a life time from gov at the time. Today that price is cheapier than cheapest you can buy from cmp. So it works out |
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Originally Posted By cviss: Jeremy has my blue sky m1 right now.. needed a barrel and looked it over. Stock was compressed and needed to be replaced . Gas cylinder might need to be replaced tbd on it. He’s very knowledgeable about m1s very professional and pleasant to deal with. Even though the op paid more than should they will go up in value. I over paid for mine in because you only could buy one for a life time from gov at the time. Today that price is cheapier than cheapest you can buy from cmp. So it works out If I'm not shooting, my stock latch/triggerguard is unfastened. |
Liberals are a curious mix of communism and fascism, they want to destroy you but want to use your own money to do it.
I'm getting down to the last box, the others have all been destroyed...
I'm getting down to the last box, the others have all been destroyed...
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Originally Posted By SteelonSteel: My nephew is a big WW2 buff and has been wanting an M1 since before he shot mine. He found one that looked clean had a nice figured stock (commercial replacement). He takes it up to my place today so I can go through it with him. I check headspace. a little tension on the No Go....check. Go to punch the bore to get a look at it.......I can tell by feel this ain’t good. Lots of scrubbing to show more pitting. No rifling at all in the last 3/4”. Not sure if it was just a dirty bore or if someone lined the pitted bore with beeswax on a patch to hide the pits. We cleaned it and greased it and gave it a test fire anyhow. It’ll work for plinking but he’ll need a new barrel. $295 parts plus a $140-150 labor, plus shipping to get it done. I hate that someone took advantage of him. He doesn’t know what he doesn’t know. I’d do it for him but a M1 action wrench will cost what a service fee for an install by someone who has done more than ARs and a couple FALs. I have reamed a M1a chamber but I have not done a garand barrel install. I’m getting too old to invest in tools for one job. @SteelonSteel Fear not. Send me a PM with your address and I will send you a brand new Criterion barrel. Then send everything to Jeremy Cheek and you will be in business |
Adopt stray dogs; but never adopt stray women.
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It’s been at least 8-years now but I came into a “gunshop” HRA rescue with a shot-out barrel and a couple of janky parts. I sent replacement parts and a 3-pc Minnelli walnut stock to Tim at Schuff’s Parkerizing for re-barreling to a .308 Criterion. The 3-pc Minnelli stock I bought from Brownell’s when they used to stock them, and Tim did great work fitting it. The Criterion barrel shoots like a laser. I added an Olongpoo stock pak. It’s my go-to M1.  The wood is beautiful: 
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Originally Posted By FluffyTheCat: @SteelonSteel Fear not. Send me a PM with your address and I will send you a brand new Criterion barrel. Then send everything to Jeremy Cheek and you will be in business And that is why this place is AWESOME 
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A closed mouth gathers no foot.
Make it "Idiot Proof", along comes a better idiot.
Official Site Nickname, given by NorCal - "Smack"
Make it "Idiot Proof", along comes a better idiot.
Official Site Nickname, given by NorCal - "Smack"
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Originally Posted By FluffyTheCat: @SteelonSteel Fear not. Send me a PM with your address and I will send you a brand new Criterion barrel. Then send everything to Jeremy Cheek and you will be in business Jesus Christ man! I am floored. I was pacing the room here for a few minutes on how to politely say thank you and yet decline the extremely generous offer. It goes against my upbringing. I am going to stifle myself and be the gracious acceptor and accept on behalf of my nephew as it’s a gift to him from you. My word, what a wonderful world Fluffy. warmest regards and quite humbly, SoS |
The only hyphenated names I like are cartridge names......30-06, 30-40, 38-55 etc.
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Oh and Fluffy wasn’t the only warm hearted soul in this forum. I’ve had another reach out to loan some of the tooling needed. Very kind members here. My nephew and I chatted yesterday before seeing this and lean more toward having it done versus borrowing and renting the rest of the tooling needed. Not to mention if Mr. the Cat gifts a generous gift like that I’m inclined to follow his recommendation. I’m sure Jeremy does good work and it won’t be his first versus if we did it. I’m still stunned. |
The only hyphenated names I like are cartridge names......30-06, 30-40, 38-55 etc.
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The ones coming from the CMP are pretty rough unless you get a special grade. Gunshop may not have screwed him, but $1,600 ouch. Below are CMP guns I got. Finish was pretty rough, but rifling was okay so I cleaned up with a bunch of Hoppe's and steel wool.     AFTER.................    |
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Originally Posted By moreammoplz: The ones coming from the CMP are pretty rough unless you get a special grade. Gunshop may not have screwed him, but $1,600 ouch. Below are CMP guns I got. Finish was pretty rough, but rifling was okay so I cleaned up with a bunch of Hoppe's and steel wool. https://i.imgur.com/6jAIJmcl.jpg https://i.imgur.com/gZNWYVhl.jpg https://i.imgur.com/ndIOVkUl.jpg https://i.imgur.com/YCynkNVl.jpg AFTER................. https://i.imgur.com/2VjFzHRl.jpg https://i.imgur.com/neXJLrCl.jpg https://i.imgur.com/bjJIQogl.jpg Nice cleanup, the pumpkin pic got a laugh out of me. The Philippine guns have been rough, They were basically stored in leaking metal quonset buildings in the tropics. My CMP buying days were US and Dane stocks, then the treasure trove of the Greek returns, IIRC I have just one non CMP M1 that I got from a member here, fp1201 hooked me up with an IHC. I have the U.S M1 makers covered. |
The only hyphenated names I like are cartridge names......30-06, 30-40, 38-55 etc.
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Holy moly, not only a saint among men but a fast one to boot! i need to get his gun back to gage it. His piston looked good with square edges. For empirical evidence it cycled the 16 rounds we fired with one stoppage that ejected a round but closed on an empty chamber. I suspect it’s a short op rod spring, I am going to buy him one of Tony Pucci’s stainless garand springs. I have had good luck with them. They’re not extra power just a better spring steel, chrome silicon or something along those lines. Thank you again! |
The only hyphenated names I like are cartridge names......30-06, 30-40, 38-55 etc.
Sigh.....my nephew made a mistake buying an M1. (Page 1 of 2)
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