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Joined:
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Posts:
237
EE: 100% (2)
MO, USA
Posted: 7/16/2025 10:30:41 PM EDT
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I’m a small, home-based FFL and I do less than 100 transfer a year. I’m currently in the middle of a delay situation that I’ve never ran into before. Need some education on this one. 20 year old guy has a semi-auto shotgun (A300) shipped to me for transfer that he bought online. Turns out I actually know his grandparents and they’re a very good family, but that’s not really relevant. He completes the 4473 and I run it online. After I make the final submission, the echeck system gives me a pop up window I’ve never seen before. It asks for the full mailing address of the buyer and whether the address is within city limits. We live in a rural town in Missouri, so there are no restrictions on semi autos so I’m not sure why that even came popped up. But I entered all the info and submitted the 4473. It came back as a delay and gave me a date of 7/16 in which to transfer the gun if no approval was received by then. So I’ve been rechecking the status a couple times a day since then with no change. The customer will be coming by tomorrow to pick up the gun. But I checked the status again this afternoon and saw that it had a new update. I retrieved the new status and got a pop up that essentially said it was further delayed and now it gave me a new transfer date of 7/25! Is this normal? I’ve never had a second delay after the first delay. They either give a proceed before the Brady transfer date or I transfer on the Brady date. Just looking for some insight on this situation. Thanks! |
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I had this myself. It's just SOP for how they screw under-21 people. Delayed, then delayed again on or before the first release date. I never had a third delay, but I suppose they can do that. All part of the "Bipartisan" bullshit bill the Bidenistas and a few RINOs got jammed through. Some people might be inclined to think "next time, Dad will be the purchaser until I'm 21". Also, the annoying way they do any delays is before they tell you it's delayed, they play this cagey little game where they ask you for the person's address info, THEN they tell you it's delayed. So if they ask for the address, you know it's a delay before they admit it. I do all my NICS over the phone because keeping up with all the required frequent FBI password changes on their web site and their screwed up way of administering password changes, it's far easier for me to just call them in when I need one. |
Feb 2025 It’s 48 to 0 and we’re only 2 minutes into the first quarter
trobertson5-0 I wasn't put in jail for what I did. I was put in it for what I think.
There were FBI agents posting in my threads. I've seen the discovery showing this.
trobertson5-0 I wasn't put in jail for what I did. I was put in it for what I think.
There were FBI agents posting in my threads. I've seen the discovery showing this.
| I dunno if this is will be of any interest or not, maybe for future Transfers, but I read a month or so ago that Mo is now a state that if you have your CCW, the FFL is current on the processes and will play ball, you legally don't have to do the 4473 any more. IF. |
LARUEMINATI
NRA Endowment Life Member
Originally Posted By Boom_Stick:
""AKs are for villagers you have to tell not to shit in their water supply.""
NRA Endowment Life Member
Originally Posted By Boom_Stick:
""AKs are for villagers you have to tell not to shit in their water supply.""
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Originally Posted By RenegadeX: Encourage customers to get LTC that bypasses NICS (if your state allows), but if you have to do NICS, call it in over the phone. Attached File |
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Originally Posted By smullen: I dunno if this is will be of any interest or not, maybe for future Transfers, but I read a month or so ago that Mo is now a state that if you have your CCW, the FFL is current on the processes and will play ball, you legally don't have to do the 4473 any more. IF. You definitely have to do a 4473 for a standard transfer. |
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Originally Posted By TheShootingAnvil: After I make the final submission, the echeck system gives me a pop up window I’ve never seen before. It asks for the full mailing address of the buyer and whether the address is within city limits. That tells you the transaction response is not going to be proceed. If it pops up as a denial the transferee's address is sent to your local po-po in case they want to follow up. I checked the status again this afternoon and saw that it had a new update. I retrieved the new status and got a pop up that essentially said it was further delayed and now it gave me a new transfer date of 7/25! Is this normal? I’ve never had a second delay after the first delay. They either give a proceed before the Brady transfer date or I transfer on the Brady date. Just looking for some insight on this situation. Thanks! Transferee under 21 years old has a ten business day delay under federal law. |
Heller II - Challenging DC's bans on semi-automatic rifles, large-capacity ammunition feeding devices, and its onerous and expensive handgun registration process. http://www.HellerFoundation.org/
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If I was a 19 year old in Missouri I would definitely get my CCW. That's the minimum age they will issue you one. I specifically asked the ATF and they said yes it would still qualify for a NICS bypass when buying a gun. I used my CCW to bypass NICS for the first time Monday. It was nice to finally enjoy what others have been able to do for 27 years. |
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Originally Posted By RenegadeX: You definitely have to do a 4473 for a standard transfer. I think according to the changes I read, a NICS check is no longer required on a legit fire arm purchase, but a 4473 is to be filled out by the purchaser.. My apologies... I know I read that on a gun news site somewhere and started a thread here on it. Several FFLs, remarked they weren't going to run this way and that they would still require the NICS approval despite the changes. Their license, their store, their rules and all that. Kinda irks me, that we finally get a score, but they aren't going to recognize it, but then again, trying to see both sides, Part of me doesn't blame them with the way the ATF has treated them in the past. |
LARUEMINATI
NRA Endowment Life Member
Originally Posted By Boom_Stick:
""AKs are for villagers you have to tell not to shit in their water supply.""
NRA Endowment Life Member
Originally Posted By Boom_Stick:
""AKs are for villagers you have to tell not to shit in their water supply.""
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Originally Posted By BigHunt: If I was a 19 year old in Missouri I would definitely get my CCW. That's the minimum age they will issue you one. I specifically asked the ATF and they said yes it would still qualify for a NICS bypass when buying a gun. I used my CCW to bypass NICS for the first time Monday. It was nice to finally enjoy what others have been able to do for 27 years. We're issuing LTC to Texans under 21, but that doesn't bypass NICS for them. |
I sell firearms produced by the finest child labor in the world, be it Filipino, Muslim, Mormon, Arizonan, or Texan.
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Originally Posted By backbencher: We're issuing LTC to Texans under 21, but that doesn't bypass NICS for them. Same for WV. |
Heller II - Challenging DC's bans on semi-automatic rifles, large-capacity ammunition feeding devices, and its onerous and expensive handgun registration process. http://www.HellerFoundation.org/
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Originally Posted By DogtownTom: Why? Originally Posted By DogtownTom: Originally Posted By backbencher: We're issuing LTC to Texans under 21, but that doesn't bypass NICS for them. Why? For us, it's b/c the state says they don't. I think it's b/c an LTC background check doesn't do the pre-18 yr old criminal & mental health checks required by the "Safer Communities Act" authored by our very own Senator John "Turncoat" Cornyn. 
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I sell firearms produced by the finest child labor in the world, be it Filipino, Muslim, Mormon, Arizonan, or Texan.
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Originally Posted By backbencher: For us, it's b/c the state says they don't. Originally Posted By backbencher: Originally Posted By DogtownTom: Originally Posted By backbencher: We're issuing LTC to Texans under 21, but that doesn't bypass NICS for them. Why? For us, it's b/c the state says they don't. Where does Texas say that? No Texas law says anything about the LTC not being an exemption for those under age 21. I also can't find any ATF cite that says the same. I think it's b/c an LTC background check doesn't do the pre-18 yr old criminal & mental health checks required by the "Safer Communities Act" authored by our very own Senator John "Turncoat" Cornyn. The LTC background check is an FBI NICS check. If the LTC holder is under 21, then FBI NICS would be responsible for abiding by federal law. |
Plano, Texas...........the Gun Nut Capitol of Gun Culture, USA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pELwCqz2JfE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pELwCqz2JfE
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Originally Posted By DogtownTom: Where does Texas say that? No Texas law says anything about the LTC not being an exemption for those under age 21. I also can't find any ATF cite that says the same. The LTC background check is an FBI NICS check. If the LTC holder is under 21, then FBI NICS would be responsible for abiding by federal law. Originally Posted By DogtownTom: Originally Posted By backbencher: Originally Posted By DogtownTom: Originally Posted By backbencher: We're issuing LTC to Texans under 21, but that doesn't bypass NICS for them. Why? For us, it's b/c the state says they don't. Where does Texas say that? No Texas law says anything about the LTC not being an exemption for those under age 21. I also can't find any ATF cite that says the same. I think it's b/c an LTC background check doesn't do the pre-18 yr old criminal & mental health checks required by the "Safer Communities Act" authored by our very own Senator John "Turncoat" Cornyn. The LTC background check is an FBI NICS check. If the LTC holder is under 21, then FBI NICS would be responsible for abiding by federal law. In the state website when you run the LTC # to see if it's valid. |
I sell firearms produced by the finest child labor in the world, be it Filipino, Muslim, Mormon, Arizonan, or Texan.
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Originally Posted By backbencher: In the state website when you run the LTC # to see if it's valid. Absolutely no requirement in Texas or federal law, nor any FBI or ATF regulation requires running an LTC to see if its valid. Same with any other document provided by a buyer/transferee. Do you call DPS to verify the validity of the buyers drivers license? Texas DPS has no authority in determining if a buyer is exempt from NICS. ATF does, and ATF says "No NICS check is required because the transferee/buyer has a valid permit from the State where the transfer is to take place, which qualifies as an exemption to NICS." If Texas DPS is so concerned about someone using or possessing an invalid LTC, then confiscate that LTC. |
Plano, Texas...........the Gun Nut Capitol of Gun Culture, USA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pELwCqz2JfE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pELwCqz2JfE
Joined:
Jul 2023
Posts:
238
EE: 100% (2)
MO, USA
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Let's get back on track again. Here's my next question. Let's just say I didn't remember to go back in to the e-check site and re-check the status of that NTN. What if I just took that first Brady transfer date of 7/16 and transferred the gun to the customer? Would that have been a massive screw-up on my part? I guess I don't get enough delays, so when I do I'm constantly checking on status updates for them. But what if I'd have forgotten to recheck or just thought I'll wait until 7/16 (which was the first date given for the transfer) and call the customer to come back and pick up his gun? |
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No restrictions on Texas LTC. Brady Permit Chart |
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Originally Posted By TheShootingAnvil: Let's get back on track again. Here's my next question. Let's just say I didn't remember to go back in to the e-check site and re-check the status of that NTN. What if I just took that first Brady transfer date of 7/16 and transferred the gun to the customer? Would that have been a massive screw-up on my part? Originally Posted By TheShootingAnvil: Let's get back on track again. Here's my next question. Let's just say I didn't remember to go back in to the e-check site and re-check the status of that NTN. What if I just took that first Brady transfer date of 7/16 and transferred the gun to the customer? Would that have been a massive screw-up on my part? It would only be a massive screw up if that status had changed to Denied before the actual transfer.. I guess I don't get enough delays, so when I do I'm constantly checking on status updates for them. I do it once a day. But what if I'd have forgotten to recheck or just thought I'll wait until 7/16 (which was the first date given for the transfer) and call the customer to come back and pick up his gun? If that status changed to Denied before you transfer the firearm, it violates federal law. When you have a compliance inspection, the IOI will come in with a printout of your Denials and he'll want to see that 4473. He'll take photos and he'll compare the date of that Denial vs the date on Que 31 in Section D when the customer recertified. That is considered one of the most serious violations an FFL could do. If the customer picks up the gun on the Brady date or afterward, before status changes from Delayed/Researching/Open.......you haven't done anything wrong. It may later change to Denied, but that's not on you. Thats when the FBI notifies local LE. |
Plano, Texas...........the Gun Nut Capitol of Gun Culture, USA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pELwCqz2JfE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pELwCqz2JfE
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Originally Posted By RenegadeX: Encourage customers to get LTC that bypasses NICS (if your state allows), but if you have to do NICS, call it in over the phone. |
N&MEM, SSDR, NRA Life Member
Epstein Scalia did not kill himself.
Gun control is literally Hitler.
Trump's actions? Watergate does not bother me, does your conscience bother you?
Gun control is literally Hitler.
Trump's actions? Watergate does not bother me, does your conscience bother you?
Joined:
Jul 2023
Posts:
239
EE: 100% (2)
MO, USA
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Originally Posted By DogtownTom: If that status changed to Denied before you transfer the firearm, it violates federal law. When you have a compliance inspection, the IOI will come in with a printout of your Denials and he'll want to see that 4473. He'll take photos and he'll compare the date of that Denial vs the date on Que 31 in Section D when the customer recertified. That is considered one of the most serious violations an FFL could do. If the customer picks up the gun on the Brady date or afterward, before status changes from Delayed/Researching/Open.......you haven't done anything wrong. It may later change to Denied, but that's not on you. Thats when the FBI notifies local LE. I guess that's where they get you. I would still have to check for a status update before transferring the gun to the guy on the 16th to make sure it wasn't a denial. And then that's when I got hit with second delay. So tomorrow is the date for the second Brady transfer date. I was thinking about just transferring the gun to the guy without checking the status on the NTN again in case they hit him with a third delay, but I guess I can't (or at least shouldn't) in case the status changed to denied. In which case, the denial update would have came before the transfer and I'd be in trouble. |
Joined:
Jul 2023
Posts:
240
EE: 100% (2)
MO, USA
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Originally Posted By RenegadeX: Is all this constant checking a requirement with eNICS? Hard to remember back to the phone call days, but unlike the phone system, when you submit an e-check, you don't get a call back from NICS when there is a status update after an initial delay. You have to go back in and re-check the status of your delayed NTN. So I guess if you want to make sure you find out a final result, you have to keep checking online. Apparently e-check is no longer the "preferred" method for dealers anymore. There was a time when every single phone call to a NICS examiner would automatically get a "futher review" followed by a delay, no matter what. But you could use the new e-check system and get a "proceed" immediately. It was then that I stopped using the phone system altogether. |
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Originally Posted By TheShootingAnvil: Hard to remember back to the phone call days, but unlike the phone system, when you submit an e-check, you don't get a call back from NICS when there is a status update after an initial delay. You have to go back in and re-check the status of your delayed NTN. So I guess if you want to make sure you find out a final result, you have to keep checking online. Apparently e-check is no longer the "preferred" method for dealers anymore. There was a time when every single phone call to a NICS examiner would automatically get a "futher review" followed by a delay, no matter what. But you could use the new e-check system and get a "proceed" immediately. It was then that I stopped using the phone system altogether. I've never had that happen and call NICS daily. |
Plano, Texas...........the Gun Nut Capitol of Gun Culture, USA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pELwCqz2JfE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pELwCqz2JfE
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Originally Posted By RenegadeX: Is all this constant checking a requirement with eNICS? No. I call in most of my NICS checks. If the customer gets a delay, often that delay changes to a proceed within minutes ON Echeck. NICS may not call to update that delay for days. (if ever) |
Plano, Texas...........the Gun Nut Capitol of Gun Culture, USA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pELwCqz2JfE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pELwCqz2JfE
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Originally Posted By TheShootingAnvil: I was thinking about just transferring the gun to the guy without checking the status on the NTN again.... Why on earth would you even consider doing that? 
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Plano, Texas...........the Gun Nut Capitol of Gun Culture, USA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pELwCqz2JfE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pELwCqz2JfE
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Originally Posted By DogtownTom: I've never had that happen and call NICS daily. FBI stopped the further review process quite a few years ago. Now anything that isn't an instant proceed is a delay. |
Heller II - Challenging DC's bans on semi-automatic rifles, large-capacity ammunition feeding devices, and its onerous and expensive handgun registration process. http://www.HellerFoundation.org/
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Originally Posted By DogtownTom: Why on earth would you even consider doing that? Originally Posted By DogtownTom: Originally Posted By TheShootingAnvil: I was thinking about just transferring the gun to the guy without checking the status on the NTN again.... Why on earth would you even consider doing that? I don't think he knows who he's messing with. That would be a horrible decision. |
BikerNut:
Normal people like motorcycles. Real people like motorcycles.
People who don't like motorcycles are just... weird.
Normal people like motorcycles. Real people like motorcycles.
People who don't like motorcycles are just... weird.
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Originally Posted By Bubbles: FBI stopped the further review process quite a few years ago. Now anything that isn't an instant proceed is a delay. Originally Posted By Bubbles: Originally Posted By DogtownTom: I've never had that happen and call NICS daily. FBI stopped the further review process quite a few years ago. Now anything that isn't an instant proceed is a delay.  My Greencard holders sit in "Processing" for hours til they go to Proceed.
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I sell firearms produced by the finest child labor in the world, be it Filipino, Muslim, Mormon, Arizonan, or Texan.
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Originally Posted By Bubbles: FBI stopped the further review process quite a few years ago. Now anything that isn't an instant proceed is a delay. Originally Posted By Bubbles: Originally Posted By DogtownTom: I've never had that happen and call NICS daily. FBI stopped the further review process quite a few years ago. Now anything that isn't an instant proceed is a delay. I know that. That not what I was commenting on, he wrote: There was a time when every single phone call to a NICS examiner would automatically get a "futher review" followed by a delay, no matter what. Hundreds and hundreds of NICS checks I ran went to "further review" and the NICS Examiner would happily give me "just a minute" and come back with "thats a proceed". That was the result in the overwhelming majority of calls the CSR forwarded to an Examiner. After the NICS Customer Service reps stopped forwarding phoned in transactions for further review, the NICS CSR (not a NICS Examiner) would tell the dealer "NTN 12345XYZ will be delayed while NICS conducts additional research. The Brady Law does not prohibit you from transferring the firearm on XX/XX/XXXX". Thats exactly what they do now, right after asking for the buyers address. |
Plano, Texas...........the Gun Nut Capitol of Gun Culture, USA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pELwCqz2JfE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pELwCqz2JfE
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Originally Posted By DogtownTom: No. I call in most of my NICS checks. If the customer gets a delay, often that delay changes to a proceed within minutes ON Echeck. NICS may not call to update that delay for days. (if ever) Same here, hence why I earlier wrote you should call in and avoid eNICs. |
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Originally Posted By RenegadeX: No that has never been the case. Originally Posted By RenegadeX: Originally Posted By TheShootingAnvil: There was a time when every single phone call to a NICS examiner would automatically get a "futher review" followed by a delay, no matter what. No that has never been the case. Since he only does 100 transfers a year at most it may have happened, but statistically it would be an outlier. |
Heller II - Challenging DC's bans on semi-automatic rifles, large-capacity ammunition feeding devices, and its onerous and expensive handgun registration process. http://www.HellerFoundation.org/
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Originally Posted By Bubbles: Since he only does 100 transfers a year at most it may have happened, but statistically it would be an outlier. After rereading his post, I think he believes the NICS phone call is answered by a NICS Examiner. |
Plano, Texas...........the Gun Nut Capitol of Gun Culture, USA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pELwCqz2JfE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pELwCqz2JfE
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Originally Posted By Bubbles: Since he only does 100 transfers a year at most it may have happened, but statistically it would be an outlier. I think you misread. His claim had nothing to do with how many xfers he did. He was making a claim for every FFL, everywhere. There was a time when every single phone call to a NICS examiner would automatically get a "futher review" followed by a delay, no matter what. |
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