Armory Sponsor
SP7 Coming? (Page 2 of 2)
|
Unless they have some inside track info my take is that all the information on their page is just a guess on their part. That said, HK's previous mostly plastic rifles like the USC and SL8 didn't have MSRPs above $2k to the best of my memory, so -theoretically- an SP7 at $2,500 isn't outright unthinkable. |
|
Originally Posted By JsARCLIGHT: Unless they have some inside track info my take is that all the information on their page is just a guess on their part. That said, HK's previous mostly plastic rifles like the USC and SL8 didn't have MSRPs above $2k to the best of my memory, so -theoretically- an SP7 at $2,500 isn't outright unthinkable. IMO their current price is a pipe dream which, along with the listing, is meant to farm customer emails. MSRP on the most recent SL8 batch in 2021 was $1699, which is almost $2200 in current dollars with inflation alone. Factor in tariffs, cost increases due to oil/the war/other factors, and R&D costs, and they’ll be up into $3k territory pretty easily. Plus, Tommybuilt was selling out at $3500/pop. HK isn’t going to leave money on the table for their most-requested gun. I would think MSRP will be something like $3299 (which is in line with the SP5K-PDW release w/ inflation factored in), and market at release will be $4-4.5k. This is a highly coveted niche platform with expensive niche ammo, HK can price it just about anywhere under $5k and still sell out because the target audience will pay. |
|
Originally Posted By johnhd: IMO their current price is a pipe dream which, along with the listing, is meant to farm customer emails. MSRP on the most recent SL8 batch in 2021 was $1699, which is almost $2200 in current dollars with inflation alone. Factor in tariffs, cost increases due to oil/the war/other factors, and R&D costs, and they’ll be up into $3k territory pretty easily. Plus, Tommybuilt was selling out at $3500/pop. HK isn’t going to leave money on the table for their most-requested gun. I would think MSRP will be something like $3299 (which is in line with the SP5K-PDW release w/ inflation factored in), and market at release will be $4-4.5k. This is a highly coveted niche platform with expensive niche ammo, HK can price it just about anywhere under $5k and still sell out because the target audience will pay. They crashed the site so hard on release day that I gave up and then had the bright idea to log on 20 minutes later in case the spam guard when down and grabbed one. HK would have no problem selling them. But knowing AU they are probably trying some gray market stuff. |
|
Originally Posted By johnhd: IMO their current price is a pipe dream which, along with the listing, is meant to farm customer emails. MSRP on the most recent SL8 batch in 2021 was $1699, which is almost $2200 in current dollars with inflation alone. Factor in tariffs, cost increases due to oil/the war/other factors, and R&D costs, and they’ll be up into $3k territory pretty easily. Plus, Tommybuilt was selling out at $3500/pop. HK isn’t going to leave money on the table for their most-requested gun. I would think MSRP will be something like $3299 (which is in line with the SP5K-PDW release w/ inflation factored in), and market at release will be $4-4.5k. This is a highly coveted niche platform with expensive niche ammo, HK can price it just about anywhere under $5k and still sell out because the target audience will pay. The SP5’s released at less than $2200. And before they were available builders were charging $3500-5k for an MP5 build. Citing custom builder prices, especially from someone like Tommybuilt because they’re low volume and had to make many of the parts themselves, isn’t an accurate representation. $2500 isn’t unreasonable for an oversized plastic pistol. |
|
Another thing to consider is that the HK SP7's direct competition in this category, the FN PS90, has an MSRP of $2,400 and regularly sells for much less. I think if HK prices the SP7 above $3k MSRP they are abusing the market. The whole reason HK and other manufacturers switched to polymer framed metal guts designs was to reduce their fabrication costs. The MP7 has to cost less than the MP5 to make, if for no other reason than there are far less man hours involved in welding or shaping metal and applying finishes. Then look at the pricing track record of their pistols. The Mark 23 is ridiculously priced, the next "generation" the USP Tactical is cheaper, the next generation after that the HK45 tac is even cheaper. Sure they are reducing features with each generation, but in some ways the MP5 to MP7 is the same. Do I think scalpers are going to price these into space the first 6 months to a year of availability? Sure. It happens every time. Do I think HK is going to intentionally MSRP these guns at or above the SP5? No. |
|
It's a long way to Q4 We'll see. |
Florida - where the further south you go, the more north it gets.
|
Originally Posted By JsARCLIGHT: Another thing to consider is that the HK SP7's direct competition in this category, the FN PS90, has an MSRP of $2,400 and regularly sells for much less. I think if HK prices the SP7 above $3k MSRP they are abusing the market. The whole reason HK and other manufacturers switched to polymer framed metal guts designs was to reduce their fabrication costs. The MP7 has to cost less than the MP5 to make, if for no other reason than there are far less man hours involved in welding or shaping metal and applying finishes. Then look at the pricing track record of their pistols. The Mark 23 is ridiculously priced, the next "generation" the USP Tactical is cheaper, the next generation after that the HK45 tac is even cheaper. Sure they are reducing features with each generation, but in some ways the MP5 to MP7 is the same. Do I think scalpers are going to price these into space the first 6 months to a year of availability? Sure. It happens every time. Do I think HK is going to intentionally MSRP these guns at or above the SP5? No. Do you really think there’s that much precision work in a MR556 to justify the $3700 price? They’ll price it at what people will pay. People will pay $3500 or more. Even now with all the flak the T7s fetch a high price. |
|
https://armsunlimited.com/heckler-koch-sp7-4.6mm-semi-auto-pistol/ Attached File |
the kubota survived Javier is no longer an illegal alien...
|
Originally Posted By vellnueve: Do you really think there’s that much precision work in a MR556 to justify the $3700 price? They’ll price it at what people will pay. People will pay $3500 or more. Even now with all the flak the T7s fetch a high price. I'd argue the MR556 has more cost in materials than the SP7 will have. Polymer shell gun vs forged and machined aluminum receivers. There is more to the process to make the MR556 than the SP7 I'd wager, just from a "what it takes to get the parts to make the assembly" standpoint. The argument of "is the product worth the price" debatable, as everything has different worth to different people. My argument is that the SP7 is arguably designed to be cheap(er) to produce for HK than many of its legacy designs. And there are several polymer framed imported euro carbines on the market (TP9, USC, PS90, etc.) that regularly MSRP around or under $2k with an equal or greater level of mechanical and fabrication complexity. And currently the TommyBuilt TP7's are the modern equivalent of Todd Bailey MP5's. If you want an MP7 it is the only option right now, thus the "value" to price on those is way out of whack. Once HK releases the SP7 it will set the market value, and if it is priced decently I expect the TommyBuilt guns to lose value overnight. If it is priced the same ($3k ballpark) I also expect the TommyBuilt guns to lose value. Buying a TommyBuilt gun right now is basically going in knowing you are getting an inferior product at an inflated price you will never recover on resale. |
|
You’re dancing around the question. HK likes to charge a premium for things that wouldn’t otherwise justify a premium. That’s why the SP7 will cost more. It doesn’t matter what their cost is, they will set price at what they think the market will bear. The SP5 is more than twice the cost of a Turkish gun even through they are functionally and materially near identical. The MR556 is near twice the cost of some very comparable US made ARs and piston derivatives. Their polymer pistols run several hundred more than their competitors. Whatever you think, their steel and polymer is not that much better than the competitors. They know people will pay for the name, so they charge more. Also, fairly confident I could offload my T7 for double the money right now. Especially since it runs perfectly well. |
|
Originally Posted By vellnueve: You’re dancing around the question. HK likes to charge a premium for things that wouldn’t otherwise justify a premium. That’s why the SP7 will cost more. It doesn’t matter what their cost is, they will set price at what they think the market will bear. The SP5 is more than twice the cost of a Turkish gun even through they are functionally and materially near identical. The MR556 is near twice the cost of some very comparable US made ARs and piston derivatives. Their polymer pistols run several hundred more than their competitors. Whatever you think, their steel and polymer is not that much better than the competitors. They know people will pay for the name, so they charge more. Also, fairly confident I could offload my T7 for double the money right now. Especially since it runs perfectly well. Not the pistol part. HK pistols are less now than they were 10 years ago. A VP9 is basically the exact same price as a Glock 19, not “several hundred more”. 
|
|
Originally Posted By vellnueve: You’re dancing around the question. HK likes to charge a premium for things that wouldn’t otherwise justify a premium. That’s why the SP7 will cost more. It doesn’t matter what their cost is, they will set price at what they think the market will bear. The SP5 is more than twice the cost of a Turkish gun even through they are functionally and materially near identical. The MR556 is near twice the cost of some very comparable US made ARs and piston derivatives. Their polymer pistols run several hundred more than their competitors. Whatever you think, their steel and polymer is not that much better than the competitors. They know people will pay for the name, so they charge more. Also, fairly confident I could offload my T7 for double the money right now. Especially since it runs perfectly well. I'm simply trying to think logically on the price of the SP7 against other HK products both current and historical, as well as other near peer current products that the SP7 will be directly competing against in the market. Despite the fanboy effect, the SP7 as a product for HK does not exist in a vacuum. It has competition, and if the multiple threads about the SP7 are any indication people are already cross-shopping it against the PS90. And the PS90 is a mature platform in the retail arena, it has already gone through a few different iterations and price points. Sure there are customers who only want the SP7 and will not consider anything else, but once that market is satiated HK won't want their gun to become a shelf warmer (like a lot of its so called "collector" items). Heck I'd argue that HK SP5's are already there, outpriced and out stocked by the clones for decades HK was too little too late returning to the market. They can actively shift that with the SP7, and IMO the best way to do that is to NOT price it like some golden calf. Any price above $3k is going to instantly alienate a lot of their potential buyers, even hardcore fanboys. The firearms market is not exactly strong and steady as it has been. Introducing a niche of the niche firearm priced too high into the current market might as well just pull a B&T and cap production at like 500 units and be done with it. But that does not seem like what modern HK has been doing to me. They seem to be at least trying to be competitive from a features and pricing standpoint. As has already been said their modern handgun offerings are the cheapest HK pistols have been, and they are expanding their line (or at least trying to) without expanding their prices. Admittedly the SP7 is not a handgun, but at the same time it is not a full size aluminum receivered rifle either. I think that both HK and the market know there is a price window where the SP7 will be instant buy for a lot of people, and one where it will be a "think about it" purchase. I'd rather see HK keep leaning into its current strategies and not use the Ferrari business model. |
|
Originally Posted By Mblades: Not the pistol part. HK pistols are less now than they were 10 years ago. A VP9 is basically the exact same price as a Glock 19, not “several hundred more”. A bone stock Glock 19 Gen 6 MSRPs for $513, and a blue label is under $400. A stock VP9 4.1” MSRP’s for 750, and sells for $500 |
|
Originally Posted By vellnueve:  Originally Posted By vellnueve: Originally Posted By MikeMilligan: Most people don't really want an SP7; they want an SMG with a straight magazine in the pistol grip that's reliable and doesn't look like crap. Anything with an angled magazine (like a Glock) automatically looks like crap. This includes every pistol chassis. Since these are toys, looks are as important as reliability. Nah he's right. Maybe not about the mp7, but nearly everything that takes a Glock mag screams "garbage." |
|
Originally Posted By CKxx: Nah he's right. Maybe not about the mp7, but nearly everything that takes a Glock mag screams "garbage." Originally Posted By CKxx: Originally Posted By vellnueve: Originally Posted By MikeMilligan: Most people don't really want an SP7; they want an SMG with a straight magazine in the pistol grip that's reliable and doesn't look like crap. Anything with an angled magazine (like a Glock) automatically looks like crap. This includes every pistol chassis. Since these are toys, looks are as important as reliability. Nah he's right. Maybe not about the mp7, but nearly everything that takes a Glock mag screams "garbage." I hadn't bothered to come back in to assure the autists that I was talking about a backwards angle mag like the Glock has. I know the MP7 mag is curved. |
AMDG
At this point everybody can suck it! -Dru
At this point everybody can suck it! -Dru
Steyr is coming out with their Version of the MP7 but in 9mm! (In 1981) MPi-81: Steyr Basically Makes the Uzi |
|
Originally Posted By vellnueve: Um, yes. The standard Glock blue label price for a standard, non MOS pistol has been $398.20 for years. Originally Posted By vellnueve: Originally Posted By Marksman14: Eh, no. Um, yes. The standard Glock blue label price for a standard, non MOS pistol has been $398.20 for years. Link to non optics cut Gen 6 G19. Originally Posted By vellnueve: A bone stock Glock 19 Gen 6 MSRPs for $513, and a blue label is under $400. A stock VP9 4.1” MSRP’s for 750, and sells for $500 MSRP on the Gen 6 Glock is $745 not $513. |
|
Originally Posted By cms81586: Eh, yeah. I’m looking at the blue label list for Gen 6 Glocks, as this is what was being discussed, and have purchased two of them personally. Please cite your work. If I’m wrong, please let me know where to get my agency the proper blue label list for sub 400 dollar gen 6 Glocks, and I’ll happily forward it to my regions blue label dealers and ask for some reimbursements for myself and a few other blue label purchasers. |
|
Originally Posted By vellnueve: A bone stock Glock 19 Gen 6 MSRPs for $513, and a blue label is under $400. Originally Posted By vellnueve: A bone stock Glock 19 Gen 6 MSRPs for $513, and a blue label is under $400. Originally Posted By vellnueve: The Vs are listed at 398.20 still. The Gen 6s are all MOS so they all sit at that price point. Ok! |
SP7 Coming? (Page 2 of 2)
Armory Sponsor
Join the Community
Your next conversation starts here.
Create your free account to join discussions, share your experience, save topics, and connect with the AR15.COM community.
- Join discussions
- Follow topics and replies
- Connect with fellow enthusiasts
Already a member? Sign in
Stay informed by subscribing to our Newsletter