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Posted: 6/13/2026 9:34:34 AM EDT
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I find that the published load data from Hornady and Hodgdon is WAY too hot for my AR15. My question(s) are why? I cant be the only one and if I do have any issue I'd like to figure it out. Im using a CMMG 16" barrel and have tried different buffers with no change. Suppressed/unsuppressed, gas block adjustments - no change. My load(s), using Athlon chronograph, is the following.. 350L, Winchester case, Rem 7-1/2 primer, 22.5g lil gun, 2.26 OAL, no crimp, 170g Hornady SP #3501 - 2150 avg speed. These were my tightest SD and groups. 23.5gr gives me slightly bulged/belted cases. 24.5gr gives me loose primer pockets and primers will fall out. Clearly these are a good bit under the MIN of hodgdon. Ive also used 296 and at 25.5gr I get case bulge, 26gr primers fall out. At 25g i get 2166 fps avg with 14.6 SD Hodgdon says.. Hodgdon 170gr Lil'Gun 2.240" MIN 27.0 2,239 43,500 PSI MAX 27.9 2,307 45,900 PSI Winchester 170grW296 2.240" MIN 24.0 2,049 40,600 PSI MAX26.7 2,221 51,600 PSI Factory Hornady w/170gr is 2200 fps with a 20" barrel. Whats going on here? Do any of you have issues with this caliber? |
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Originally Posted By Gone_rabid: I find that the published load data from Hornady and Hodgdon is WAY too hot for my AR15. My question(s) are why? I cant be the only one and if I do have any issue I'd like to figure it out. Im using a CMMG 16" barrel and have tried different buffers with no change. Suppressed/unsuppressed, gas block adjustments - no change. My load(s), using Athlon chronograph, is the following.. 350L, Winchester case, Rem 7-1/2 primer, 22.5g lil gun, 2.26 OAL, no crimp, 170g Hornady SP #3501 - 2150 avg speed. These were my tightest SD and groups. 23.5gr gives me slightly bulged/belted cases. 24.5gr gives me loose primer pockets and primers will fall out. Clearly these are a good bit under the MIN of hodgdon. Ive also used 296 and at 25.5gr I get case bulge, 26gr primers fall out. At 25g i get 2166 fps avg with 14.6 SD Hodgdon says.. Hodgdon 170gr Lil'Gun 2.240" MIN 27.0 2,239 43,500 PSI MAX 27.9 2,307 45,900 PSI Winchester 170grW296 2.240" MIN 24.0 2,049 40,600 PSI MAX26.7 2,221 51,600 PSI Factory Hornady w/170gr is 2200 fps with a 20" barrel. Whats going on here? Do any of you have issues with this caliber? What is your COAL? Did you crimp enough so you don't get set back? I use Shooters World SBR Socom and Ramshot Enforcer/accurate 4100. I have belted cases once, bulged a couple. In both instances, I was not at max and should have had a grain to work with. I refuse to mess with Lil gun. I only use starline bread in the 350. Might be useful I do in these: Thread 1 Thread 2 |
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2.26 OAL. Also, when I mention it bulging I do mean the cases are belted to a varying degree. I tried crimping and without with no change. The loads are very consistent across my ladders. If things were way off I wouldn’t hesitate of tried to figure that out first. I’ll take a look at those links. |
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stop using ball powders. If you have to then 1680 will not give you problems. 350 Leg is not a beginners cartridge to reload for. IMR 4227 will be the powder you really need to look for. Lilgun needs a 98-100% case fill to work right. It is a very temperamental powder in the 350. I will not use it anymore because of things like you mentioned. I have had 3 guns in 350. Each has had its own problems. My newest one has a vert tight chamber. I had to buy a Hornady FL die for it as no brass that I have would fit in the chamber. The Lee fl die I have I modified to get brass to fit the Ruger Ranch bolt gun. I have a small lathe and I turned off the bottom of the die till the brass would chamber in that rifle. The cartridge is tapered. So the more you run a piece of brass into to it, the more the brass will be sized to a smaller diameter at the base. Which what I was looking for. But this will be the next thing you will run into. So buy a Hornady die if you do. Forget trying to make this a speed demon. Ball powders behave weird in low density loadings they need a 99%+ case fill in the 350 |
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Thank you guys. All this time I was thinking I was doing something wrong and chasing my tail and it turns out it’s 99.9% the powder. What created this mess was last year I was going hog hunting in Texas and was short on factory 180gr ammo. Had a couple hundred of the Hornady 170 bullets and was making ladders to find a good load. I’ve had these notes sitting on my desk and figured I’d ask before I put them in my book. Interesting thing is I use lil gun and 296 for all sorts of things and have not seen this kind of disaster before. I use it on 50 Beowulf, 450bm, 338 arc and 50ae with 500gr bullets. Never an issue and very consistent. I used Winchester brass as that’s what I had a bunch of so I didn’t mix brass for my hunting loads. I have the Hornady 350 legend dies and I think the Lee factory crimp die. With my cast bullets (250gr?) I was using Reloder 7 and cfeblk. I do have a pound of 1680 I could try. |
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It does that. I likely still have the email from Hornady with the data written out (this was at initial release). Best I recall, that's the same charges recommend to me at the time. Without my data in front of me, with the 165gr FTX, I can tell you I quit around 26.5gr or so. I ran a batch at like under 25, seemed fine during summer, then blew a primer in the cold. Less than 25gr is spicy enough for a 170gr interlock. Start charges were as fast as factory loads. IMO it is bad data. I have no idea what they did to get those results. They are not realistic. Others have had the same issue as you and me, OP. I'm pretty sure if I put 27gr, let alone 27.9gr through my setup, it would be... umm... "face melting"... Can you describe the smell of you sample(s) of LilGun? Mine is over 5yrs old now, and I can't recall the smell. Mine is now a rancid cheese, dirty feet kinda funk. I believe it may have gone bad. |
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Originally Posted By Clarinath: Why do you refuse to mess with lil gun? On here, other forums and guys locally...Lil Gun in 350 legend is Bi-polar. To picky of a charge range and to temp sensitive. I'm in Michigan and I've seen guys have a great load with lil gun and the temp swing dang near causes a head separation...belted is an understatement. I'm not saying it's not great but for the above reasons I er on the side of keeping out of the ER. |
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Im using H-110 Hornady #3501 170 gr Federal 205M Winchester case trimmed to 1.705" C.O.L. 2 255" CVA Scout 20" barrel. Just enough crimp to get the flare tucked back in. Being a single shot im not worried about set back. Hornady factory 170 grains gave me an average velocity of 2270fps E.S. 19.19 and S.D. 8.06. This gave me 1 inch to 1 1/2 inch groups of 5 at 100 yards and shot the best out of all the factory stuff I tried. These were all 5 shot groups but only 4 shots registered on the chrono except the last which only read 3. 22gr - 1933fps 23gr - 2038fps 24gr - 2056 fps 24.8gr - 2166fps 25.4gr - 2237 fps 25.6gr - 2257 fps 25.8gr - 2293 fps The E.S. and S.D. were all pretty high except for the 24.8 load. It was slightly lower than the Hornady at 15.54 and 7.93 but It was probably the 3rd-5th best group of the day. Shot and chronographed in warm weather but didn't chrono in cold weather because the load I went with shot the same and the cases all looked the same after firing. Have not noticed any issues with the primer pockets or any other pressure signs. According to Hornady data they used a 16.5" barrel and their 24.8gr load gave a fps of 2200 and i got 2166fps. My 25.8gr gave 2293 and their 26gr max load shows 2250fps Nothing crazy comparison wise so a good visual indicator on working up loads. |
R.I.P. Betty. You were a great doggo
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Some powders basically require case fill in straight wall cartridges. Don't try this because I don't want you to blow your gun up, but if you load that again with 1 to 2 grains less than suggested again, you'd again see a low velocity if you tipped the rifle up 90° then slowly lower to fire. BUT you'd also possibly detonate your rifle if you point it down then slowly raise to fire with that same load. I think it's as if all the powder is igniting at once, causing a major surge in chamber pressure, but with the rifle tipped up first the powder covers the flashhole preventing the unstable burn. But if you got a way to mount the rifle, and a string to pull the trigger, by all means... 
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Originally Posted By wvfarrier: I have been been using Lil Gun for 2 decades in a wide variety of guns. Never been an issue. The horseshit started due to flame cutting on some revolvers when the powder was first released I agree and continue to use lil gun in 300blk, 350L, 450BM, and 45 Raptor |
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Confirmed bad smelling stuff.....like vomit. Awhile back I had bought a 480 Ruger and it came with a few hundred of his "special hand loads" and I pulled them down and saved the powder. When I got into something else with lilgun I bought a new can and remembered my old stash of pull down powder and compared it to the new stuff.... It all had the same stink.....so I made a couple of the new vs old powder and they all shot the same, so I mixed it all up and have been using it. |
“If liberty means anything at all it means the right to tell people what they do not want to hear.”
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George Orwell, Animal Farm
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Originally Posted By ScottyPotty: Confirmed bad smelling stuff.....like vomit. Awhile back I had bought a 480 Ruger and it came with a few hundred of his "special hand loads" and I pulled them down and saved the powder. When I got into something else with lilgun I bought a new can and remembered my old stash of pull down powder and compared it to the new stuff.... It all had the same stink.....so I made a couple of the new vs old powder and they all shot the same, so I mixed it all up and have been using it. Thanks for the nose bud. I'll see if it still behaves the same. |
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