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Posted: 8/2/2009 10:48:15 PM EDT
[Last Edit: calicojack][Edited]
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I do not work for ATS Tactical nor any of their retailers. I have no financial gain in their companies and/or products. The products contained here-in have were purchased through this site's EE. All wording and/or findings are my own, and have not in anyway been solicited by any vested parties.
The Term war belt is a synonym for a modular belt; the body of a strong first line. One of the more popular thread topics, as of late, is on this very topic. There are a few styles of "war belt", produced by companies such as OSOE, Ice Tactical, blueforce gear. Boris from DIY and of course ATS Gear. These styles range any where from a "sleeve", such as the ATS unit, to a tapered, padded belt like the ones OSOE and ICE provide. One of the most popular, and most highly recommended is the ATS War Belt. The ATS "war belt" has three rows and 22 pals channels. There are two channels that are unusable on the medium sized belt, one on either end. 
The ATS warbelt is more of a sleeve cover rather than a true belt. It does not function without a true inner belt. Almost the entire bottom of the unit is open, with the exception of three tacked areas. It is tacked at each end and then again in the center. 
For added stability, when using a true 2" outer duty belt, ATS has added hook and loop (velcro) to the side that rests against the body. This will keep the sleeve from moving around, when used with a duty belt which is also equipped with velcro on the inside band. 
The "war belt" has four attachment points for suspenders, in the form of fastex rings. Two on the back and one on each side at the front 
Suspendes can also be purchased from ATS to aid with sag and/or the unit riding up. these may or may not be up your alley. For me they didn't fit my body type the way I would have liked, so I bought a Different pair, which IMO, are far superior in both construction and comfort. 
After having a conversation with a fellow gear geek today I was prompted to go back and double check the unit I have here at the house. We were having a discussion on build quality, and he pointed out to me that the ATS war belt is constructed of single ply codura. That is true to an extent. The inside wall (the side that rests on your body) is actually doubled up codura. However the side that REALLY matters, the outter wall of the sleeve; the side that the pals channels are tacked onto, IS only single ply. if you hold it to a light, you can see through it. It didn't come out to clear with my camera. Another point that i was distressed to see was how many loose ends there were underneath, where the pals channels are tacked down. Both items are shown below. also note in the following picture, that the inner layer, the layer directly against your body) is folded codura; that is not stitched at the bottom. the only stitching done on that layer is at the top.
Should you decide to upgrade from the inner belt that comes with the unit (and I would suggest you do if your going to run any type of subload) there is a trick to threading your new belt into the sleeve. it's called poster board. cut a piece that spans the entire length of the interior velcro. place it on top of the velcro, and thread your belt into place. one you have it where you want it, pull the poster board out. My Current configuration, subject to immediate change (soon as the new gear gets released) 
As always This product is available through either ATS's website or several other industry partners. i've linked to them enough, and for to stand with the new guidelines i won't post them here. Further, As i've said before; I am average joe weekend warrior. I work for a nation wide beverage company. I have no financial interest with any company referenced here-in. I in no way represent their product availability or pricing. I can provide contact information for any company listed here-in, but will only do so via pm. |
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Originally Posted By BigCoastie:
Nice review, it's a shame all the multicam is covered up The newer ones have multicam webbing. Good review. As for the ATS inner belt designed to go with this, I have not had the problems a few others have reported with it. I suppose if someone were running heavy subloads then they might want a stiffer belt, but I'm not real big on things that flop around my legs when running... The ATS is the fourth warbelt-type belt I've had (DBT, TT, and TAG were others), and I think I'm going to settle on this one. Very happy with it. |
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I run this same belt as my 1st line with ATS's duty belt and it works great. I use a Safariland 6325 holster for my G19 and TLR1 as I hate sub loads. I've run many a drill in this belt and have yet to have it roll or sag on me (I don't use suspenders with it). For the money, I'd say it's one of the best belts on the market. Certainly better than Tactical Tailors.
Here is a link to Lightfighter's very thorough war belt thread. |
Training:
Tactical Response Fighting Pistol - Sept. '08
Tactical Response Precision Rifle - Nov. '08
Tactical Response Immediate Action Medical - Feb. '09
Tactical Response Fighting Pistol - Sept. '08
Tactical Response Precision Rifle - Nov. '08
Tactical Response Immediate Action Medical - Feb. '09
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Originally Posted By calicojack: my old inner belt (the one hanging) was a blackhawk 2.5" duty belt. my new belt is a osoe cobra belt and a pretty kick ass belt if i may add 
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For survival tips and how to's visit:
http://www.youtube.com/delta69alpha
http://www.youtube.com/delta69alpha
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Originally Posted By calicojack:
my old inner belt (the one hanging) was a blackhawk 2.5" duty belt. my new belt is a osoe cobra belt Do want! I like my ATS belt, but their rigger belt is a tad floppy for my taste. I have a Blackhawk duty belt, but that Cobra buckle is just too cool. FWIW, I run my Safariland 6004 on a slightly modified UBL hanger. It helps the holster ride a bit higher, but still drops a bit out of the way. Judicious use of the wifey's hair dryer allowed me to bend the kydex enough to help the holstered pistol clear even a plate carrier with side plates & backers. |
If a doctor says you're going to feel some pressure, buckle up! -Brian Regan
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i was asked to post my replies on the ats belt from M4C here. hopefully military moron will as well, as i have a rebuke for him:
if you look at the ats belt, it's super thin. the outter wall (the molle side) is only a single layer of codura with the webbing stitched upon it. My picture didn't come out to good, but if you look at the stitching points, you can see light coming through the unit. also look at the bottom layer. see how it billows up? that's from a lack of stitching.
second thing is it's loose. I use the same inner belt, now, on both units. the OSOE belt does not shift when twisting side to side. the Ats belt does. I've had my ats belt for just about a year now, and have reconfigured it at least 5 times. notice how wrinkled and loose it has become
see the waves in it? just due to the construction of the OSOE belt, I don't see how it's going to be possible to produce similar results in it. there is no way for it to "wave" like the ats belt has. also notice how much stitching the OSOE belt has compared to the ATS belt at the bottom
Same picture as from above, but i use it to point this out. see how far up the top layer can be pulled?
compared to the osoe 
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isnt the ATS one that was on sale a while back at under 40$ or was that ICE? to be honest my A.C.T belt seems better made than the ATS shown here. YMMV I dont have the OSOE molle belt, just the cobra. Which again is a pretty bad ass built like a freaking TANK belt! |
For FREE survival tips and how to's visit:
http://www.youtube.com/delta69alpha
http://www.youtube.com/delta69alpha
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A few questions:
if you look at the ats belt, it's super thin. the outter wall (the molle side) is only a single layer of codura with the webbing stitched upon it.
Why would it need to be double-layered? That would serve no purpose, except to add to weight and bulk. also look at the bottom layer. see how it billows up? that's from a lack of stitching.
Why would it need stitching? It's a single piece of cordura. And when worn it is tight against the body, so no billowing. see the waves in it? just due to the construction of the OSOE belt, I don't see how it's going to be possible to produce similar results in it. there is no way for it to "wave" like the ats belt has.
Mine does not have those "waves", but even if it did I fail to see the problem. When worn (not placed on ground, or loosely on a dummy or coat hangar) it is taut and flat against the body. These all seem to me like complaints about problems that do not exist. Now, if the sizing is erratic, stitches are getting blown, belt is sagging where others aren't - those would be real concerns. I don't see any of that with mine, though... Not trying to start a fight here, just wondering about the relevance of some of these observations. |
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the concern over the single layer on the outter wall is that codura can and will rip if the pouches snag on anything is pulled at hard enough. ie: you have to navigate rough rural terrain, one of your pouches snags a limb and in that instant before you stop moving to clear your self, it rips. If there had been more material, a double layer plus multiple stitch layers, that would have been prevented.
secondly, about the billowing. the ats belt does have a thin layer of padding to it. from the feel of mine (and i'd like one of their reps to chime in here) it is open cell foam. which has a tendancy to bunch and shift. A simple design change to where they fill it, then edge it with edge tape, run a few vertical stitches, and you've re-enforced that padding, thus preventing the shift. It's kinda like a pillow or feather bed. at some point your going to end up with it bunching. Now. I am not a high speed operator (i've stated that enough, and should you choose to attack me on it, please do so via pm). However I have run this belt for about a year. These are observations that i have come up with. okay. here's the bunching of the padding i was talking about. notice how it's not flat in any one area? how the foam has developed clumps? 
compared to the osoe version 
notice how the stitching/edging at the top AND bottom of the osoe pulls it tight? also notice the mutiple vertical stripes of stitching compared to ATS two wide spaced horizontal rows? |
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There are quite a few of these out there in combat zones, and I have yet to hear of any cordura ripping on them due to being single ply. Cordura is really, really tough stuff - very hard to rip.
You appear to have one of the older models; the newer ones have a moisture-wicking material inside the belt that also serves to better keep it from moving around. I see what you're saying about the foam, and that might be a worthwhile improvement to make. I don't see any bunching of the foam in mine, but mine is fairly tight and has virtually no sag at all. Though I can see how it might if worn loose with heavy subloads. One thing on the bunching though - does yours not flatten out when actually worn? It should... When laying on the floor it might tend to bunch up because it was designed to stretch around a waist. When stretched around a waist it should flatten out. The OSOE one looks nice as well, but at nearly 3 times the price I'll stick with the ATS. You and a handfull of other people have had some problems with the ATS belt, but I have not had those same problems myself, and I know that many others are using these in real situations and are happy with them. And for the price - $40 - they are hard to beat. There are better belts out there, but I doubt for that price. |
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Originally Posted By fisterkev:
There are quite a few of these out there in combat zones, and I have yet to hear of any cordura ripping on them due to being single ply. Cordura is really, really tough stuff - very hard to rip. You appear to have one of the older models; the newer ones have a moisture-wicking material inside the belt that also serves to better keep it from moving around. I see what you're saying about the foam, and that might be a worthwhile improvement to make. I don't see any bunching of the foam in mine, but mine is fairly tight and has virtually no sag at all. Though I can see how it might if worn loose with heavy subloads. One thing on the bunching though - does yours not flatten out when actually worn? It should... When laying on the floor it might tend to bunch up because it was designed to stretch around a waist. When stretched around a waist it should flatten out. The OSOE one looks nice as well, but at nearly 3 times the price I'll stick with the ATS. You and a handfull of other people have had some problems with the ATS belt, but I have not had those same problems myself, and I know that many others are using these in real situations and are happy with them. And for the price - $40 - they are hard to beat. There are better belts out there, but I doubt for that price. actually no, it doesn't flatten out. like i said, the belt i have is a year old, so ats might very well have ironed a few things out. that is the nature of things. for all those just joing us, this thread is a must read |
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Originally Posted By calicojack:
The Term war belt is a synonym for a modular belt; the body of a strong first line. One of the more popular thread topics, as of late, is on this very topic. There are a few styles of "war belt", produced by companies such as OSOE, Ice Tactical, blueforce gear. Boris from DIY and of course ATS Gear. These styles range any where from a "sleeve", such as the ATS unit, to a tapered, padded belt like the ones OSOE and ICE provide. CJ, Thanks for the great post. I think that almost every piece of major gear should have a write-up like that! I nominate you to undertake the task! 
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"War is like winter - it may come late, it may be mild, but sooner or later, in one form or another, it will arrive."
- Michael Mandelbaum (Survival, Volume 40, Number 4)
- Michael Mandelbaum (Survival, Volume 40, Number 4)
| Calico's been banned from this forum. I believe the belt used is an OSOE Cobra Belt. |
Training:
Tactical Response Fighting Pistol - Sept. '08
Tactical Response Precision Rifle - Nov. '08
Tactical Response Immediate Action Medical - Feb. '09
Tactical Response Fighting Pistol - Sept. '08
Tactical Response Precision Rifle - Nov. '08
Tactical Response Immediate Action Medical - Feb. '09
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Originally Posted By Paulie771:
Calico's been banned from this forum. I believe the belt used is an OSOE Cobra Belt. IIRC, it is the Cobra. |
Tyranny, like hell, is not easily conquered; yet we have this consolation with us, that the harder the conflict, the more glorious the triumph. What we obtain too cheap, we esteem too lightly: it is dearness only that gives every thing its value.
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I thought it looked like that Jones one?
The guy that did all these great reviews have been banned form here? What did he do? (If I can ask, if it is something not to be brought up then tell me and I'll zip it) |
I will not submit.
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Originally Posted By Intimdtr77:
I thought it looked like that Jones one? The guy that did all these great reviews have been banned form here? What did he do? (If I can ask, if it is something not to be brought up then tell me and I'll zip it) He wouldn't have been using the Jones one. It's OSOE. He is banned from this particular subforum because of his conduct here. He did do a lot of great reviews and dispensed a lot of good advise, but he also had an unfortunate habit engaging in behavior that violated the COC, specifically personal attacks and general rude behavior, which isn't tolerated in technical forums here. It really sucks because he was generally an asset to the Tactical Gear forum, but no amount of great reviews and posts are enough to make you invulnerable to the COC. |
Tyranny, like hell, is not easily conquered; yet we have this consolation with us, that the harder the conflict, the more glorious the triumph. What we obtain too cheap, we esteem too lightly: it is dearness only that gives every thing its value.
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Originally Posted By joker581: Originally Posted By Intimdtr77: I thought it looked like that Jones one? The guy that did all these great reviews have been banned form here? What did he do? (If I can ask, if it is something not to be brought up then tell me and I'll zip it) He wouldn't have been using the Jones one. It's OSOE. He is banned from this particular subforum because of his conduct here. He did do a lot of great reviews and dispensed a lot of good advise, but he also had an unfortunate habit engaging in behavior that violated the COC, specifically personal attacks and general rude behavior, which isn't tolerated in technical forums here. It really sucks because he was generally an asset to the Tactical Gear forum, but no amount of great reviews and posts are enough to make you invulnerable to the COC. All it takes is one mod to have it out for you. This forum was tops while he was here. I bought some gear he reviewed and he was usually spot on. He has his own site now and I frequently it often. Still lookin for a good war belt. Afterall I need something to hang my "taco" pouches on. |
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Originally Posted By Intimdtr77:
Sorry to bring it up. I'll go back top watching the thread. 
I think I leaning towards the ATS belt, it seems to have a few good reviews. I have the ATS belt. I've used it in 2 all day tactical carbine courses. It works great... |
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Originally Posted By Teleplyr:
Originally Posted By Intimdtr77:
Sorry to bring it up. I'll go back top watching the thread.
I think I leaning towards the ATS belt, it seems to have a few good reviews. I have the ATS belt. I've used it in 2 all day tactical carbine courses. It works great... That's exactly what I was thinking about, that and SHTF. I figured to start there then go with a chest rig of some sorts, maybe a plate carrier. |
I will not submit.
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Originally Posted By JohnnyP:
All it takes is one mod to have it out for you. This forum was tops while he was here. I bought some gear he reviewed and he was usually spot on. He has his own site now and I frequently it often. Still lookin for a good war belt. Afterall I need something to hang my "taco" pouches on. Nobody "had it out for him". He had a nasty habit of acting like a dick here, which finally caught up with him. In fact, his antics here when Hoplite was too busy to moderate this forum were the reason I was made a moderator. This isn't the only board where that has happened to him. As much as I love it here, this board has never been and will never be the best source for gear info, and one hobby user writing gear reviews is never going to change that, no matter who it is. Originally Posted By Harv24:
The guy was a total OSOE fan boy... who had ZERO real world experience with gear... how is that an asset?? He actually took the steps to get his hands on the gear and review it. He also put a lot of effort into gathering review threads into the tacked review list thread at the top of this forum. He never tried to mislead anyone about his profession, his lack of training, or his lack of experience. His reviews stuck mainly to construction, comfort, and design, which isn't something that requires years of indepth experience. I'm all for openness in moderating, but it isn't really fair to discuss this much farther without him being here to defend himself, nor am I really comfortable disclosing some of the details that led to his being locked from this forum without him knowing about it. If anyone really wants to see the whole matter discussed, open a Pit thread on it and notify him and me and we'll discuss it if he's up for it. I'm fairly certain that it didn't go down the way many here probably assume that it did. Until then, let's try and keep this on topic. |
Tyranny, like hell, is not easily conquered; yet we have this consolation with us, that the harder the conflict, the more glorious the triumph. What we obtain too cheap, we esteem too lightly: it is dearness only that gives every thing its value.
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Originally Posted By SWATH:
http://i238.photobucket.com/albums/ff298/arolfsen/reviews/DSCF0026.jpg I like those MC pistol mag pouches. What are they and how do you like them? Is the flap removable? EMDOM 604 pistol mag pouch |
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Originally Posted By ARCANGEL:
Originally Posted By SWATH:
http://i238.photobucket.com/albums/ff298/arolfsen/reviews/DSCF0026.jpg I like those MC pistol mag pouches. What are they and how do you like them? Is the flap removable? EMDOM 604 pistol mag pouch Thanks! |
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I have the ATS Warbelt. I'm currently using it in Afghanistan on a daily basis. It's been hung up on tree limbs, dragged, pulled, abraided, soaked all the way through with sweat too many times, covered in mud, battered, bruised and spindled with no problems. I've jumped off an RG-31 and hung a pouch on the battle lock and nothing tore. It's a first class piece of gear.
The "just a sleeve" design is actually what makes it work so well. You guys that are running the skinny, floppy riggers belts are doing it wrong. Those belts are made for your pants. With the ATS belt you want a wide, thick, stiff belt with velcro on the inside and a quality buckle. I use a belt made by SPEC-OPs that is almost like the old cartridge belt, updated. It has full length velcro and it locks into the ATS sleeve perfectly. The ATS Warbelt needs a tough, structured belt as a "backbone" for it to work properly, and a soft, thin, "hold up your pants" belt will work poorly. I haven't had, or seen anyone else have, any material failures with this belt. This is a good piece of kit. I haven't seen the OSOE belt mentioned in the thread, but all the SOE gear I have works great, so Im sure that belt is well made too. |
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Originally Posted By FightingHellfish:
I have the ATS Warbelt. I'm currently using it in Afghanistan on a daily basis. It's been hung up on tree limbs, dragged, pulled, abraided, soaked all the way through with sweat too many times, covered in mud, battered, bruised and spindled with no problems. I've jumped off an RG-31 and hung a pouch on the battle lock and nothing tore. It's a first class piece of gear. The "just a sleeve" design is actually what makes it work so well. You guys that are running the skinny, floppy riggers belts are doing it wrong. Those belts are made for your pants. With the ATS belt you want a wide, thick, stiff belt with velcro on the inside and a quality buckle. I use a belt made by SPEC-OPs that is almost like the old cartridge belt, updated. It has full length velcro and it locks into the ATS sleeve perfectly. The ATS Warbelt needs a tough, structured belt as a "backbone" for it to work properly, and a soft, thin, "hold up your pants" belt will work poorly. I haven't had, or seen anyone else have, any material failures with this belt. This is a good piece of kit. I haven't seen the OSOE belt mentioned in the thread, but all the SOE gear I have works great, so Im sure that belt is well made too. Any chances of seeing your gear? 
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I will not submit.
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FightingHellfish
You guys that are running the skinny, floppy riggers belts are doing it wrong. Those belts are made for your pants. With the ATS belt you want a wide, thick, stiff belt with velcro on the inside and a quality buckle.
Bears repeating.... This is actual experience vs, Calico Jacks review..... There's a clue there.... 
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Originally Posted By Harv24:
FightingHellfish You guys that are running the skinny, floppy riggers belts are doing it wrong. Those belts are made for your pants. With the ATS belt you want a wide, thick, stiff belt with velcro on the inside and a quality buckle.
Bears repeating.... This is actual experience vs, Calico Jacks review..... There's a clue there.... Dude, we get it. You've got a problem with calicojack because you think his experience isn't sufficient to evaluate gear. He's still a member of this site and, frankly, contributed more than most here. If you can't resist talking shit about the man, start a thread here in the Bear Pit where he can respond and you can unload all you want on him. Until then, stop taking cheap shots at him here and don't post unless you have something useful to say. This isn't GD and that crap has gone on more than long enough. |
Tyranny, like hell, is not easily conquered; yet we have this consolation with us, that the harder the conflict, the more glorious the triumph. What we obtain too cheap, we esteem too lightly: it is dearness only that gives every thing its value.
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Originally Posted By FightingHellfish:
I have the ATS Warbelt. I'm currently using it in Afghanistan on a daily basis. It's been hung up on tree limbs, dragged, pulled, abraided, soaked all the way through with sweat too many times, covered in mud, battered, bruised and spindled with no problems. I've jumped off an RG-31 and hung a pouch on the battle lock and nothing tore. It's a first class piece of gear. The "just a sleeve" design is actually what makes it work so well. You guys that are running the skinny, floppy riggers belts are doing it wrong. Those belts are made for your pants. With the ATS belt you want a wide, thick, stiff belt with velcro on the inside and a quality buckle. I use a belt made by SPEC-OPs that is almost like the old cartridge belt, updated. It has full length velcro and it locks into the ATS sleeve perfectly. The ATS Warbelt needs a tough, structured belt as a "backbone" for it to work properly, and a soft, thin, "hold up your pants" belt will work poorly. I haven't had, or seen anyone else have, any material failures with this belt. This is a good piece of kit. I haven't seen the OSOE belt mentioned in the thread, but all the SOE gear I have works great, so Im sure that belt is well made too. I'm using Tactical Tailors Duty Belt with my ATS Warbelt and it's perfect for it. The duty belts velcro mates to the warbelts velcro and the duty belt is more than stiff enough to keep from rolling over. |
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