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Pre-recall M249S parts - hammer, carrier - (pics) (Page 1 of 2)
Posted: 7/20/2024 3:46:56 PM EDT
[Last Edit: jtb33][Edited]
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I had my M249S out and figured I'd take some pics of the internals. I have one of the first 1000 M249S's made from the initial release. I never sent it back for the recall work, so it has the nicer trigger and the slide hammer is different from what you'd get now. I've had people ask for pics, so I figured I'd take a few this time. Ignore the Minimi parts - was messing with them. It's worthy of note that the bolt, carrier and hammer are not blued/melonited like the newer ones.   UPDATE: Additional pics of the original internals. https://www.fnforum.net/threads/m249s-recall-info-question.229320/page-4 You'll have to ignore the German Shepherd hair on some of the parts.              |
“The difference between treason and patriotism is only a matter of dates.”
"And how can man die better
Than facing fearful odds,
For the ashes of his fathers,
And the temples of his Gods."
"And how can man die better
Than facing fearful odds,
For the ashes of his fathers,
And the temples of his Gods."
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Originally Posted By KitBuilder: Thanks for posting these! Here's a thread on FN forums where we were discussing the recall work a while ago... I need to get the dimensions of the pre-recall parts for him. https://www.fnforum.net/threads/m249s-recall-info-question.229320/page-3?post_id=1603514#post-1603514 |
“The difference between treason and patriotism is only a matter of dates.”
"And how can man die better
Than facing fearful odds,
For the ashes of his fathers,
And the temples of his Gods."
"And how can man die better
Than facing fearful odds,
For the ashes of his fathers,
And the temples of his Gods."
|
Originally Posted By FADALdude: Have many of these gone to manufacturers to bypass purchasing Title II weapons direct from FN? The current production version is just as good (for that purpose). I’ve seen a few people talk about welding up the earlier parts, for a conversion, but never actually seen one (or pics of one) that was converted that way. |
| If you're asking about my 249S that's pictured - not many. Less than 500. I have another semi auto 249 in MK46 Mod 2 config, so I don't shoot this one very much. |
“The difference between treason and patriotism is only a matter of dates.”
"And how can man die better
Than facing fearful odds,
For the ashes of his fathers,
And the temples of his Gods."
"And how can man die better
Than facing fearful odds,
For the ashes of his fathers,
And the temples of his Gods."
|
The one pictured on FN's web site? Unlikely. The MK46 Mod 2 is really just a lightened version of the M249. The furniture is different on all of them; many use the standard clubfoot stock. They use different handguards and heat shields depending upon the barrel they are using. The main permanent differences are that it doesn't have the ability to use STANAG magazines and doesn't have the forward hard-mount to put it on a tripod or pintle. Here's my MK46 Mod 2 - note that mine also uses an HK lower on it.     And when you compare it with an actual M249S, you can see the differences:  |
“The difference between treason and patriotism is only a matter of dates.”
"And how can man die better
Than facing fearful odds,
For the ashes of his fathers,
And the temples of his Gods."
"And how can man die better
Than facing fearful odds,
For the ashes of his fathers,
And the temples of his Gods."
|
What makes the 1st gens better? I saw a video that shows the trigger assembly was modified for "safety". I'm seriously thinking of buying the Para model. Why is it more than the standard? The retractable stock? If I buy the standard, how much to buy the bbl and stock? Break even or cheaper? If I decide to finally go the NFA route, how difficult will it be for parts/assembly? I really, really want one of these and might even consider selling a few guns for it. Something I never thought I would do, lol. |
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Originally Posted By raygixxer89: What makes the 1st gens better? I saw a video that shows the trigger assembly was modified for "safety". I'm seriously thinking of buying the Para model. Why is it more than the standard? The retractable stock? If I buy the standard, how much to buy the bbl and stock? Break even or cheaper? If I decide to finally go the NFA route, how difficult will it be for parts/assembly? I really, really want one of these and might even consider selling a few guns for it. Something I never thought I would do, lol. The gen 1 guns that didn’t have recall work done have a much lighter trigger. The 2nd generation and recall guns have triggers in the 15 plus pound range whereas gen 1 are around 6 - 8 lb range. Supposedly the recall had more to do with ease of full auto conversion vs. “safety” issues. You’re going to have to search google and gunbroker for price of parts to see what version of the gun makes most sense to you, but you can easily change out barrels and stocks if you change your mind later on. |
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Originally Posted By Wespe: The gen 1 guns that didn’t have recall work done have a much lighter trigger. The 2nd generation and recall guns have triggers in the 15 plus pound range whereas gen 1 are around 6 - 8 lb range. Supposedly the recall had more to do with ease of full auto conversion vs. “safety” issues. You’re going to have to search google and gunbroker for price of parts to see what version of the gun makes most sense to you, but you can easily change out barrels and stocks if you change your mind later on. Thank you. I read some other threads and also saw a bolt carrier group on gun broer that is serialized for full auto. So if I buy the gun and then do the paperwork for th FA, will the gun need to be destroyed after I;m gone (provided I go the Individual route), or just the bolt carrier? Pardon my questions, but if OP prefers, I can move this to the NFA forum. This and an MP5 are the only full-autos that I would be interested in ownning. |
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Originally Posted By raygixxer89: Thank you. I read some other threads and also saw a bolt carrier group on gun broer that is serialized for full auto. So if I buy the gun and then do the paperwork for th FA, will the gun need to be destroyed after I;m gone (provided I go the Individual route), or just the bolt carrier? Pardon my questions, but if OP prefers, I can move this to the NFA forum. This and an MP5 are the only full-autos that I would be interested in ownning. The only other way to legally own a full auto M249 is to buy one of the very few pre-86 transferrables. In fact, I think there is only one out there and it's well into the six-figures. |
“The difference between treason and patriotism is only a matter of dates.”
"And how can man die better
Than facing fearful odds,
For the ashes of his fathers,
And the temples of his Gods."
"And how can man die better
Than facing fearful odds,
For the ashes of his fathers,
And the temples of his Gods."
|
Originally Posted By jtb33: Just to clarify, the only way to make an M249S into full auto is to be a Type 7 FFL with a Type 2 SOT. The only other way to legally own a full auto M249 is to buy one of the very few pre-86 transferrables. In fact, I think there is only one out there and it's well into the six-figures. This was my plan,to get the type 2 SOT. Might just get a lawyer to do th legwork for me. How difficult is it to get? |
| No idea - but I do know that you can't just get one because you want a FA M249. You have to have a legitimate business to get it approved and your location needs to be zoned properly. That's a question that's more appropriate for the FFL forum though. |
“The difference between treason and patriotism is only a matter of dates.”
"And how can man die better
Than facing fearful odds,
For the ashes of his fathers,
And the temples of his Gods."
"And how can man die better
Than facing fearful odds,
For the ashes of his fathers,
And the temples of his Gods."
|
Originally Posted By jtb33: No idea - but I do know that you can't just get one because you want a FA M249. You have to have a legitimate business to get it approved and your location needs to be zoned properly. That's a question that's more appropriate for the FFL forum though. Dang. Thanks for the info. Not sure that I want to get all involved with a business and other hoops. I might still just get one to add to the collection. They just look so cool. |
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Originally Posted By raygixxer89: Dang. Thanks for the info. Not sure that I want to get all involved with a business and other hoops. I might still just get one to add to the collection. They just look so cool. Don't be discouraged if you want an FFL. It's certainly do-able if you are able to have a "manufacturing" business at your residence or property in your locality. The biggest hurdle is always making sure you comply with all the business rules for your state/city/county. But once you have those taken care of, FFL's are essentially shall-issue. |
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Originally Posted By jtb33: The one pictured on FN's web site? Unlikely. The MK46 Mod 2 is really just a lightened version of the M249. The furniture is different on all of them; many use the standard clubfoot stock. They use different handguards and heat shields depending upon the barrel they are using. The main permanent differences are that it doesn't have the ability to use STANAG magazines and doesn't have the forward hard-mount to put it on a tripod or pintle. Here's mine - note that mine also uses an HK lower on it. https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51839384308_de277a4c77_k.jpg https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51839267991_c74d433677_k.jpg https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51797145623_1a308094c4_k.jpg And when you compare it with an actual M249S, you can see the differences: https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51944874887_6fdc8394f5_k.jpg I really dig your Mk46! I've seen photos of it before and I stupidly passed up the opportunity to get a kit-built one on sturm with an HK trigger pack on sturm a few months ago. Was yours a kit build, too? |
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Originally Posted By Flevvy: Don't be discouraged if you want an FFL. It's certainly do-able if you are able to have a "manufacturing" business at your residence or property in your locality. The biggest hurdle is always making sure you comply with all the business rules for your state/city/county. But once you have those taken care of, FFL's are essentially shall-issue. Originally Posted By Flevvy: Originally Posted By raygixxer89: Dang. Thanks for the info. Not sure that I want to get all involved with a business and other hoops. I might still just get one to add to the collection. They just look so cool. Don't be discouraged if you want an FFL. It's certainly do-able if you are able to have a "manufacturing" business at your residence or property in your locality. The biggest hurdle is always making sure you comply with all the business rules for your state/city/county. But once you have those taken care of, FFL's are essentially shall-issue. I was contemplating getting an LLC for another matter. I wonder if this will help. |
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Ok, time to take the FFL discussion elsewhere to some other topic rather than further derailing this one. Getting this back on track, I've posted additional pics of the original internals. https://www.fnforum.net/threads/m249s-recall-info-question.229320/page-4 You'll have to ignore the German Shepherd hair on some of the parts. |
“The difference between treason and patriotism is only a matter of dates.”
"And how can man die better
Than facing fearful odds,
For the ashes of his fathers,
And the temples of his Gods."
"And how can man die better
Than facing fearful odds,
For the ashes of his fathers,
And the temples of his Gods."
|
I have M249S Para that I have never fired, nor have I sent I back for the “recall”.. I do need to take it out some time , but really don’t see the necessity of the recall unless I want to strengthen my right index finger with the new and crappy trigger pull. |
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I was able to shoot a new prod m249s and the trigger is super heavy and it took 2 hands to pull the ch back. My palm hurt after a few times. Had a ton of FT Chambers - i simply couldnt get the ch back far enough, with enough force, to chamber. Watching videod, people were one hand charging with ease, and i was baffled how seeing these pre "recall" guts, it makes sense now.... The new slide hammer back end def contacts the buffer. That needs machined shorter. And whats with the sprung lever on it as well? Why did they do this? I REALLY want one but it really did buzzkill the vibe. I was issued an M249 but that ch pull back issue is terrible and not in line with how the real ones felt. Also, why not just band saw and machine the back flush again here?  |
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Originally Posted By HaveBlue83: I wonder if they will sell just the slide hammer seperately........for science |
“The difference between treason and patriotism is only a matter of dates.”
"And how can man die better
Than facing fearful odds,
For the ashes of his fathers,
And the temples of his Gods."
"And how can man die better
Than facing fearful odds,
For the ashes of his fathers,
And the temples of his Gods."
|
Originally Posted By HaveBlue83: Good thing bridgeport will |
“The difference between treason and patriotism is only a matter of dates.”
"And how can man die better
Than facing fearful odds,
For the ashes of his fathers,
And the temples of his Gods."
"And how can man die better
Than facing fearful odds,
For the ashes of his fathers,
And the temples of his Gods."
|
Originally Posted By jtb33: If you're suggesting that you will make and sell them; I'm interested. Wonder how fast the C&D would show up after my endmill touches the no no parts...... I wanted to buy a 249s and it seems there are.....changes made....could be remedied...... The question is when do alphabet and belgian people knock if you are just trying to make a semi, semi better, like it used to semi? *Hmm* Spitballs more........really all u need is the lighter trigger spring (can be made) and the end milled off that hits the buffer and makes it tight. The camming thing is dumb but if it helps stop a dead trigger and lockup, id leave it....(Or just grab 4140 and make a new block and try it out and see) Maybe some day ill get a block in hand and make it a lil brother and they could play. |
| If you're talking about replicating some of the internals from the ATF-approved Gen 1 (pre-recall) M249S, I can't see how you would possibly have an issue. FN said the changes were for safety and had nothing to do with ATF. Apparently the slide would eventually break. There are some users in the M249S forum on FNForum that have had that issue with their Gen 1 (pre-recall). |
“The difference between treason and patriotism is only a matter of dates.”
"And how can man die better
Than facing fearful odds,
For the ashes of his fathers,
And the temples of his Gods."
"And how can man die better
Than facing fearful odds,
For the ashes of his fathers,
And the temples of his Gods."
|
Originally Posted By HaveBlue83: Wonder how fast the C&D would show up after my endmill touches the no no parts...... Spitballs more........really all u need is the lighter trigger spring (can be made) and the end milled off that hits the buffer and makes it tight. The camming thing is dumb but if it helps stop a dead trigger and lockup, id leave it....(Or just grab 4140 and make a new block and try it out and see) Maybe some day ill get a block in hand and make it a lil brother and they could play. Originally Posted By HaveBlue83: Originally Posted By jtb33: If you're suggesting that you will make and sell them; I'm interested. Wonder how fast the C&D would show up after my endmill touches the no no parts...... Spitballs more........really all u need is the lighter trigger spring (can be made) and the end milled off that hits the buffer and makes it tight. The camming thing is dumb but if it helps stop a dead trigger and lockup, id leave it....(Or just grab 4140 and make a new block and try it out and see) Maybe some day ill get a block in hand and make it a lil brother and they could play. Make a slide hammer AND/OR a lighter trigger spring, I'm a buyer. |
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Originally Posted By jtb33: If you're talking about replicating some of the internals from the ATF-approved Gen 1 (pre-recall) M249S, I can't see how you would possibly have an issue. FN said the changes were for safety and had nothing to do with ATF. Apparently the slide would eventually break. There are some users in the M249S forum on FNForum that have had that issue with their Gen 1 (pre-recall). Also, that slide isnt that bad to replicate. I bet the top teet would crack off. So they added the cam to slow the inertia but still hit the FP section The extra mass in the rear (my engineer brain says) its to overcome the extra friction of the camming action. Machine it off, might get ftf. *Probably* not but they added it for a reason. Its a lot to spend 9k on an item to tinker......But i do have weapons grade autism, and i can fix a 249 with my eyes closed....and a friend has a new 249s that i already gutted and looked at after shooting it (and hating the cocking force needed to charge it) |
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Originally Posted By HaveBlue83: Ok. Thats good info. Also, that slide isnt that bad to replicate. I bet the top teet would crack off. So they added the cam to slow the inertia but still hit the FP section The extra mass in the rear (my engineer brain says) its to overcome the extra friction of the camming action. Machine it off, might get ftf. *Probably* not but they added it for a reason. Its a lot to spend 9k on an item to tinker......But i do have weapons grade autism, and i can fix a 249 with my eyes closed....and a friend has a new 249s that i already gutted and looked at after shooting it (and hating the cocking force needed to charge it) If you need another beta tester, I test and review guns/parts for a living. happy to help |
I need x and y mearured with calipers or a mic. Thats first.  Then id need a slide hammer, new or old, to R&D a print to make the OG style one. Then i could test on my buddies if im allowed. The second thing is whats the inside of the back of the FPin look like, cause this new slide hammer is flat faced it seems. So if i dont need to undercut the bevel on the front and i can keep more meat there, i would. Just round the edges. More mass.  I plan to go back and look at his again and try to get a print of it but its nicer to have one in hand. |
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Originally Posted By HaveBlue83: I need x and y mearured with calipers or a mic. Thats first. https://i.postimg.cc/x1nWzyQV/Screenshot-20241209-150826.png Then id need a slide hammer, new or old, to R&D a print to make the OG style one. Then i could test on my buddies if im allowed. The second thing is whats the inside of the back of the FPin look like, cause this new slide hammer is flat faced it seems. So if i dont need to undercut the bevel on the front and i can keep more meat there, i would. Just round the edges. More mass. I plan to go back and look at his again and try to get a print of it but its nicer to have one in hand. sending a PM with my number, i can mike the post recall hammer. I have calipers and a SAW at my desk. |
| I will fish out my M249S and pull it apart to get any dimensions you want with calipers if you're serious about doing this. It's in the very back of one of my safes, so it takes some work to get to it. In fact you can PM me your number; it might be easier to just do a Zoom or google video chat to get all the info you want on the internals in real-time. |
“The difference between treason and patriotism is only a matter of dates.”
"And how can man die better
Than facing fearful odds,
For the ashes of his fathers,
And the temples of his Gods."
"And how can man die better
Than facing fearful odds,
For the ashes of his fathers,
And the temples of his Gods."
|
Originally Posted By jtb33: I will fish out my M249S and pull it apart to get any dimensions you want with calipers if you're serious about doing this. It's in the very back of one of my safes, so it takes some work to get to it. In fact you can PM me your number; it might be easier to just do a Zoom or google video chat to get all the info you want on the internals in real-time. Yeah that could work as well for a pre-recall one. I could get a print going pretty quick with that. |
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Contact made with HaveBlue83 and the preliminary info he asked for has been provided. Also, while I had my pre-recall "Gen 1" M249S out for measuring some of the parts for him with calipers, I used my trigger pull gauge to check the pull weight out of curiosity. It's consistently a 7.0lb trigger pull, FYI. |
“The difference between treason and patriotism is only a matter of dates.”
"And how can man die better
Than facing fearful odds,
For the ashes of his fathers,
And the temples of his Gods."
"And how can man die better
Than facing fearful odds,
For the ashes of his fathers,
And the temples of his Gods."
|
Originally Posted By jtb33: Contact made with HaveBlue83 and the preliminary info he asked for has been provided. Also, while I had my pre-recall "Gen 1" M249S out for measuring some of the parts for him with calipers, I used my trigger pull gauge to check the pull weight out of curiosity. It's consistently a 7.0lb trigger pull, FYI. Same, have been measuring and discussing post recall parts with him. Good discussions regarding design changes moving forward |
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Originally Posted By withoutremorse42: Same, have been measuring and discussing post recall parts with him. Good discussions regarding design changes moving forward Yep! I need to get the rest of the dimension on the old one but i think the rear chop mod to clear the buffer/ hard charging issue is the main thing, and the sear vs pushing the slide hammer back is the trigger issue...that im thinking over |
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Originally Posted By HaveBlue83: Yep! I need to get the rest of the dimension on the old one but i think the rear chop mod to clear the buffer/ hard charging issue is the main thing, and the sear vs pushing the slide hammer back is the trigger issue...that im thinking over I feel like once the rear of the slide hammer is cut down the trigger won't be nearly as much of an issue, since it won't be pressing against the hydraulic buffer. the trigger spring feels like even less of an issue in comparison, it runs pretty light when it's separated from the gun. The sear forces a pretty small amount of rearward travel, even taking off a tiny amount of material should make a big difference |
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Just popped the top cover on a 249s pre recall, yeah that slide hammer is tiny! Yeah i need to just machine off the back area so it clears, call it a day and see how that works. Someone send me one and ill do it for free, make it look factory and blue it up lol. Someones gotta be the guinea pig, and i dont have a 249 (yet), bit a buddy has one for reference |
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Originally Posted By HaveBlue83: Just popped the top cover on a 249s pre recall, yeah that slide hammer is tiny! Yeah i need to just machine off the back area so it clears, call it a day and see how that works. Someone send me one and ill do it for free, make it look factory and blue it up lol. Someones gotta be the guinea pig, and i dont have a 249 (yet), bit a buddy has one for reference If nobody sends you one before mid-january, I will. Thats when mine is paid off and the threat of having to send it back to FN is gone |
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Ever since I watched the forgotten weapons m249s episode, i have been trying to talk my self out of one. Now I want the para in fde.  Stupid me saw one at the gunshow last weekend, I was drooling over it, and the wifes sis asked me "you would spend 1k on that?!" Me: "yeah, add an extra 0" So now the wife knows how much it was if it suddenly showed up... Stupid me!! Grr 
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Originally Posted By Gibbles: Ever since I watched the forgotten weapons m249s episode, i have been trying to talk my self out of one. Now I want the para in fde. Stupid me saw one at the gunshow last weekend, I was drooling over it, and the wifes sis asked me "you would spend 1k on that?!" Me: "yeah, add an extra 0" So now the wife knows how much it was if it suddenly showed up... Stupid me!! Grr find one on sale. $9,999 even.. "dont worry babe, it was on sale! how much? I can't say, or you'll know how much I spent on this gift for you.." |
Pre-recall M249S parts - hammer, carrier - (pics) (Page 1 of 2)
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