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Posted: 3/22/2023 11:17:28 PM EDT
| Why? What are the advantages/disadvantages? |
"The Creator may be seen in all the works of his hands, but none so clearly in the wise economy of the honey bee."
"Obviously natural selection is bunk. Why are there so many stupid people left?"
"Obviously natural selection is bunk. Why are there so many stupid people left?"
| Pretty much eliminates any chances of leading unless your sizing is way off, bullets can be pushed faster with softer alloys, less smoke, no lube to gum up the dies, and bullets also store better for longer periods vs lubed. For me it's been very forgiving. With lubed if you don't have the right lube or your fit isn't great it's going to lead. Powder coat is much more tolerant to those variables. They're also supposed to be able to be pushed faster without the need of a gas check but I have not tried that. |
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Originally Posted By Mauser48A: Pretty much eliminates any chances of leading unless your sizing is way off, bullets can be pushed faster with softer alloys, less smoke, no lube to gum up the dies, and bullets also store better for longer periods vs lubed. For me it's been very forgiving. With lubed if you don't have the right lube or your fit isn't great it's going to lead. Powder coat is much more tolerant to those variables. They're also supposed to be able to be pushed faster without the need of a gas check but I have not tried that. No build up in dies that change OAL, no mess on your fingers, and no wiping excess lube off loaded rounds. Then the firearm does not get near as dirty as with lubed bullets. I worked up carefully when I got into powder coating 10 or so years ago, and found I could use the same loads in 357 and 44 mag as I use with jacketed bullets. I never get any leading anymore, that alone makes PC worth it to me. In rifles with PC and a gas check, I load to around 2500 or less for good results. Again no leading. 7.62x39, 30-30, 35 Rem are ideal calibers for PC bullets and work well for me. One thing is you can't scrape the side of the bullet when seating, or that round will lead the barrel. So the easy solution is a Lyman M die expander. As other dies don't expand the cases well. The Lee universal expander, I abandoned it once I tried M dies.  What I'm talking about. 7.62x39 home cast PC bullet with gas check, 155 grs. Case on the left was expanded with a M die, the other case was "belled". Yes I load steel Berdan cases in 7.62x39. Brass Boxer cases work the same way. With the M die the bullet hand seats about 1/16 inch inside the case, and it's straight. Which makes it easy to seat straight. No holding it straight all the way into the seating die with your fingers. |
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Veteran of the Third Battle of Tannhauser Gate.
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Yes I load steel Berdan cases in 7.62x39. Are you a wizard? Seriously, I didn't think anyone reloaded Berdan. |
"The Creator may be seen in all the works of his hands, but none so clearly in the wise economy of the honey bee."
"Obviously natural selection is bunk. Why are there so many stupid people left?"
"Obviously natural selection is bunk. Why are there so many stupid people left?"
Global Warming Hoax Skeptic before it was cool
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Originally Posted By FrankSymptoms: Are you a wizard? Seriously, I didn't think anyone reloaded Berdan. https://www.ar15.com/forums/armory/Loading-Berdan-primed-brass-7-62-x-39-Update-8-01-2016-/42-325383/ An older thread I did on the subject. Some of the pics were "ate" by photohore. I bought the primers years ago when they were available, one RCBS decapper, and the rest is technique. |
Selling agent for Algores carbon credit scam.
Shooting and Reloading, one hobby feeds the other.
Shooting and Reloading, one hobby feeds the other.
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Can't thank Dryflash enough. I used to buy coated cast bullets from a lady out on the other side of LA County back in the 80s through the 90s. She used very good material that was MoS2 infused and stood up to 44 Mag pressure with no issues. They were not cheap but compared to shooting conventional lube or jacketed bullets at the indoor range, they were pretty good. The gun didn't get all polluted with conventional lube and there was no lead vapor or barrel cleaning involved. We lost our closest indoor range, then we lost access to the San Pedro Police Range, so I stopped needing cast 44 and let it die. When Dryflash showed his work, it motivated me to give it a try. Easy to do and great results. (The folks who got hold of PhotoBucket and ruined so many web sites with their greed deserve their karma.) Many thanks for sharing your work and for the work you put into those photos. |
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Originally Posted By Mauser48A: Pretty much eliminates any chances of leading unless your sizing is way off, bullets can be pushed faster with softer alloys, less smoke, no lube to gum up the dies, and bullets also store better for longer periods vs lubed. For me it's been very forgiving. With lubed if you don't have the right lube or your fit isn't great it's going to lead. Powder coat is much more tolerant to those variables. They're also supposed to be able to be pushed faster without the need of a gas check but I have not tried that. Yes, plane lead bullets have velocity limit before leading up your barrel. I just recently started powder coating and was finally able to have the cast Lee Bator bullets actually cycle the AR. No leading! Grouping still sucks compared to jacketed bullets but I still working on that. |
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Originally Posted By dryflash3: https://www.ar15.com/forums/armory/Loading-Berdan-primed-brass-7-62-x-39-Update-8-01-2016-/42-325383/ An older thread I did on the subject. Some of the pics were "ate" by photohore. I bought the primers years ago when they were available, one RCBS decapper, and the rest is technique. Thank you! |
"The Creator may be seen in all the works of his hands, but none so clearly in the wise economy of the honey bee."
"Obviously natural selection is bunk. Why are there so many stupid people left?"
"Obviously natural selection is bunk. Why are there so many stupid people left?"
Global Warming Hoax Skeptic before it was cool
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Originally Posted By RegionRat: Can't thank Dryflash enough. I used to buy coated cast bullets from a lady out on the other side of LA County back in the 80s through the 90s. She used very good material that was MoS2 infused and stood up to 44 Mag pressure with no issues. They were not cheap but compared to shooting conventional lube or jacketed bullets at the indoor range, they were pretty good. The gun didn't get all polluted with conventional lube and there was no lead vapor or barrel cleaning involved. We lost our closest indoor range, then we lost access to the San Pedro Police Range, so I stopped needing cast 44 and let it die. When Dryflash showed his work, it motivated me to give it a try. Easy to do and great results. (The folks who got hold of PhotoBucket and ruined so many web sites with their greed deserve their karma.) Many thanks for sharing your work and for the work you put into those photos. PC bullets are the best thing since carbide pistol dies and tumblers. The old timers will know what I mean. 
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Originally Posted By Thump_rrr: Did your bullets pass the smash test? Are you spraying or using the shake and bake method?  Mine pass the hammer test. Single coat, Smoke's powder, shake and bake method.   |
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My process although, obviously, there are many ways of doing this Eastwood Ford dark blue. Came packaged in a heavy zip-loc bag but I put it in an old HF container.  Sprinkle a little powder right on top. Yes, I also use white airsoft BB's and they work fine.  About 15 seconds of gentle swirling. Put the lid back on and gave it another 15 seconds.  I use forceps to line em up on on non-stick foil. Lots of guys just dump em out on foil or parchment paper but I'm pretty quick with the forceps. Get down to the last row or 2 I'll preheat my $5 Goodwill toaster oven to °400F (tested with an oven thermometer. My dial was off by °25F)  Ready to bake @ °400F. I bake for 25 min.  Bake away little blue boolits  I drop them right from the tray into ~2" water. I don't do this to harden them (although it does as long as you have antimony and a miniscule % of arsenic; just so happens to be the formula for common lead wheelweights), I do it because hot boolets look the same as cold ones and I don't trust myself not to pick up a hot one   Voilá, boolets.  |
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To me, it comes down to cost. I can cast bullets very cheaply. I can powder coat them very cheaply. I can push my powder coated cast lead bullets to jacketed velocity very cheaply. I can therefore shoot a lot more than if I were buying jacketed bullets. I currently use my cast PC bullets in 9mm, and .45-70. I also color code my .45-70 bullets so that I know what's inside. Black for plinking load, 16gr unique. Red, your shoulder is going to hurt. New load, new color. I don't get lead or copper fouling. My barrel cleaning in my 9s or Marlin 1895 consists of two pulls of a bore snake. Done. My 2023 resolution is to no buy Leverevolution and hunt just with my PC bullets. My intention is to find an accurate load with Lee 340gr in the 1900-2000fps range. At $50 /20, the factory loads are just too $$ to practice and zero with to the extent that I want to. I'm frugal. |
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Originally Posted By mace2364: Do you only coat “freshly cast” bullets, or can you coat bullets that have been sitting for a while? I have some bullets I cast a while back I’d like to try on, but they’ve been sitting for a few months. As long as they're not lubed, it shouldn't be a problem. |
Trusting your life to the benevolence of an armed criminal is not a strategy, it is stupid!
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Originally Posted By dryflash3: Same here, never had a problem. Usually, I let the sit and harden for a couple days. Then after coating, which I've read can have an annealing effect, I'll let them sit a couple weeks before loading. |
Trusting your life to the benevolence of an armed criminal is not a strategy, it is stupid!
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Now for something different. I hate waste. I mixed HF black and Eastwood FLB and got good one coat adhesion on my LEE 340gr. Came out blue / black speckled. Perfect for my Deer DRT load with 57gr of IMR 3031. I have decided that I refuse to pay $3 a round for Hornady just to kill a yard deer at 150yds. |
Trusting your life to the benevolence of an armed criminal is not a strategy, it is stupid!
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Originally Posted By Y-T71: My process although, obviously, there are many ways of doing this Eastwood Ford dark blue. Came packaged in a heavy zip-loc bag but I put it in an old HF container. https://i.imgur.com/VaXdVsh.jpg Sprinkle a little powder right on top. Yes, I also use white airsoft BB's and they work fine. https://i.imgur.com/gdkivx4.jpg About 15 seconds of gentle swirling. Put the lid back on and gave it another 15 seconds. https://i.imgur.com/IN0b9qW.jpg I use forceps to line em up on on non-stick foil. Lots of guys just dump em out on foil or parchment paper but I'm pretty quick with the forceps. Get down to the last row or 2 I'll preheat my $5 Goodwill toaster oven to °400F (tested with an oven thermometer. My dial was off by °25F) https://i.imgur.com/ngoHQCQ.jpg Ready to bake @ °400F. I bake for 25 min. https://i.imgur.com/4Zfu581.jpg Bake away little blue boolits https://i.imgur.com/0zQFF9B.jpg I drop them right from the tray into ~2" water. I don't do this to harden them (although it does as long as you have antimony and a miniscule % of arsenic; just so happens to be the formula for common lead wheelweights), I do it because hot boolets look the same as cold ones and I don't trust myself not to pick up a hot one https://i.imgur.com/IzCPim0.jpg Voilá, boolets. https://i.imgur.com/y6qnDHF.jpg nice photos I do about the same thing, except I simply pick up the bullets with a nirtile goved paw and set them on the baking silicone   . . . . . as far as buying coated, these are all good vendors... Missouri SNS blue Bullets Precision  
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Global Warming Hoax Skeptic before it was cool
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Originally Posted By shotar: Oh bother. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/10063/20230401_090544-2766266.jpg But those will shoot great, all that counts. 
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Shooting and Reloading, one hobby feeds the other.
Shooting and Reloading, one hobby feeds the other.
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Originally Posted By dryflash3: Ugly, I understand why you didn't post a pic at first. But those will shoot great, all that counts. I needed them to be different. I color code my 45-70 so I know if it's mild, wild or somewhere in between. |
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Originally Posted By shotar: Oh bother. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/10063/20230401_090544-2766266.jpg Loaded cartridge https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/10063/20230401_115056-2766351.jpg |
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https://www.memoriapress.com/articles/the-four-causes-of-classical-education/
General education should not be mere job training, but training in how to be fully human.
https://www.memoriapress.com/articles/the-four-causes-of-classical-education/
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Originally Posted By shotar: Left to right Lee 340 - 16gr unique Lee 340 - 57gr imr 3031 Lee 405 - 48gr H4895 https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/10063/20230401_144745-2766573.jpg Oh BTW I set the toggle to keep this thread out of the archives. We needed a quality PC thread in this forum. So OP, hit the MY TOPICS tab, and this thread will be at the top of the list. |
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Originally Posted By Er_Mah_Gerd: Does anyone mess with hardness instead of PC? Seems there are a ton of knowledgable people here to solve the leading problem without adding steps? I found PC so I don't have to be overly concerned about hardness. I have buckets of wheel weights, and old soft lead pipe and roof flashing. I just mix some of each in the pot. I load at jacketed data. |
Trusting your life to the benevolence of an armed criminal is not a strategy, it is stupid!
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Originally Posted By shotar: I found PC so I don't have to be overly concerned about hardness. I have buckets of wheel weights, and old soft lead pipe and roof flashing. I just mix some of each in the pot. I load at jacketed data. Since I started to powder coat, I no longer worry about lead hardness or leading. I also worked up my PC loads and found I could use full power jacketed loads. |
Selling agent for Algores carbon credit scam.
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Shooting and Reloading, one hobby feeds the other.
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Originally Posted By dryflash3: We seem to do the same thing often. Since I started to powder coat, I no longer worry about lead hardness or leading. I also worked up my PC loads and found I could use full power jacketed loads. Originally Posted By dryflash3: Originally Posted By shotar: I found PC so I don't have to be overly concerned about hardness. I have buckets of wheel weights, and old soft lead pipe and roof flashing. I just mix some of each in the pot. I load at jacketed data. Since I started to powder coat, I no longer worry about lead hardness or leading. I also worked up my PC loads and found I could use full power jacketed loads. Count me in on this. My go to alloy is 50/50 wheel weights to "pure" (usually lead water lines since I had access to as much as I wanted when I worked for our street/water dept) If I'm really pushing things with, say .44mag, I might go with 100% wheel weights (and quench them after PC'ing) but, as mentioned in the other active thread about .44mag and Unique, that's my 'bread and butter' load so no real reason to. I do use 100% WW in my 7.62x39, .30-30 and .308 cast bullet loads but I'm not entirely convinced it's necessary. IMHO, powder coating make alloy selection much less "important" than the old days. I have PC'd commercial cast/lubed bullets before. I boil the bullets to remove the lube, let them cool in the pot and remove the disc of solidified lube that's floated to the top. Never had a problem with adhesion doing this; they easily pass the hammer test. Here are some .40/10mm that I PC'd with HF red and yellow (long before I"discovered" Eastwood powders. 
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Originally Posted By MRW: What's the hammer test please? Take one of your PC'd boolets and pound it flat with a hammer to confirm that your powder coat adhesion is up to snuff.. Dryflash has a picture of it in post #13 of this thread. *edit* grammar |
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Originally Posted By Techsan02: For people that PC do you cast your own bullets or buy cast bullets? I buy when I don't have the mold for the style of bullet desired.  Some of my home cast PC pistol bullets. From the left, 71 gr for 32 ACP, 100 gr for 32 H&R mag, 90 gr for 380, 120 gr for 9mm, 158 gr for 38, 357, 255 gr for 44 mag. Missing are 4o cal 175 gr and 200 gr TC. Truncated cone, like the 9mm bullet in the pic above.  Store bought from missouri bullets, to the right are the coated bullets ready to cook. To the left are the defective bullets in this 500 count box. I sent Missouri bullets a polite email with this pic, and they sent me another box free of charge. No defects in that box. So I bought 2 move boxes, 245 gr 30 cal, and more .452 45 cal. |
Selling agent for Algores carbon credit scam.
Shooting and Reloading, one hobby feeds the other.
Shooting and Reloading, one hobby feeds the other.
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Originally Posted By shotar: Oh bother. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/10063/20230401_090544-2766266.jpg Loaded cartridge https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/10063/20230401_115056-2766351.jpg JESUS! put a piece of parchment paper down on that tray. LOL!!!! |
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And hardness still matters on accuracy. But you usually will never have to go over 15 for hardness. Most pistol you can go fairly soft. But hardness is not all that you need. The composition of your alloy makes a bigger impact than anything else. With PC you also don't need to run oversized bullets. The least amount of sizing will be a more accurate bullet. Your consistency in you actually casting the bullet plays a HUGE part as well. This is a short version for you to think about. I am not going to type out a 20 page essay on this. |
Global Warming Hoax Skeptic before it was cool
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Originally Posted By MRW: bump This thread has the archive toggle set by me, so it's not going to slip into the archives.   Recent 357 batch of 4th of July ammo. |
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Shooting and Reloading, one hobby feeds the other.
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Global Warming Hoax Skeptic before it was cool
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