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Posted: 2/16/2026 9:18:51 AM EDT
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I received a complete braced pistol lower in a box for a customer transfer. There was also a complete upper in the box. As an FFL, what did I receive? Pistol or receiver? |
| If upper is 16"+, it's a rifle. If upper is <16", it's a pistol. |
trobertson5-0 I wasn't put in jail for what I did. I was put in it for what I think. There were FBI agents posting in my threads. I've seen the discovery showing this.
LEFTISTS: ”Our violence is speech, your speech is violence!”
LEFTISTS: ”Our violence is speech, your speech is violence!”
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I log AR lowers w/ pistol braces in as receivers, even if my customer might intend to build it as a pistol. They could just as easily build a .410 shotgun or a rifle out of it. I log Glock lowers in as frames, on the assumption my customer is probably not intending to add a 16" Austrian barrel and stock to it 1st. It's a bullshit definition by Congress that expects me to divine the intent of my customer, in some cases before I even have their phone number. |
I sell firearms produced by the finest child labor in the world, be it Filipino, Muslim, Mormon, Arizonan, or Texan.
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Originally Posted By johnmyster: Thanks. Since posting I found some ATF guidance that clarifies that since the entire pistol was in the box (even if not assembled) it is considered a pistol. I’m not a gunsmith or a manufacturer so it will be transferred in two parts.  Do you not assemble shotguns before you transfer them?
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I sell firearms produced by the finest child labor in the world, be it Filipino, Muslim, Mormon, Arizonan, or Texan.
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Originally Posted By johnmyster: Thanks. Since posting I found some ATF guidance that clarifies that since the entire pistol was in the box (even if not assembled) it is considered a pistol. Originally Posted By johnmyster: Thanks. Since posting I found some ATF guidance that clarifies that since the entire pistol was in the box (even if not assembled) it is considered a pistol. ATF Rul. 2011-4 "..... knockdown condition (i.e., complete as to all component parts)...." I’m not a gunsmith or a manufacturer so it will be transferred in two parts. Huh?  |
Plano, Texas...........the Gun Nut Capitol of Gun Culture, USA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pELwCqz2JfE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pELwCqz2JfE
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Originally Posted By backbencher: I log AR lowers w/ pistol braces in as receivers, even if my customer might intend to build it as a pistol. They could just as easily build a .410 shotgun or a rifle out of it. I log Glock lowers in as frames, on the assumption my customer is probably not intending to add a 16" Austrian barrel and stock to it 1st. It's a bullshit definition by Congress that expects me to divine the intent of my customer, in some cases before I even have their phone number. Huh? What regulation asks a licensee to "divine the intent" of a customer? Ive never seen it. I have seen the ATF regulations that define firearms as to type of firearm and I've read the instructions on the 4473 that tell the licensee how to record certain firearms. "Intent" has nothing to do with anything in firearm recordkeeping. |
Plano, Texas...........the Gun Nut Capitol of Gun Culture, USA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pELwCqz2JfE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pELwCqz2JfE
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Originally Posted By DogtownTom: Huh? What regulation asks a licensee to "divine the intent" of a customer? Ive never seen it. I have seen the ATF regulations that define firearms as to type of firearm and I've read the instructions on the 4473 that tell the licensee how to record certain firearms. "Intent" has nothing to do with anything in firearm recordkeeping. Originally Posted By DogtownTom: Originally Posted By backbencher: I log AR lowers w/ pistol braces in as receivers, even if my customer might intend to build it as a pistol. They could just as easily build a .410 shotgun or a rifle out of it. I log Glock lowers in as frames, on the assumption my customer is probably not intending to add a 16" Austrian barrel and stock to it 1st. It's a bullshit definition by Congress that expects me to divine the intent of my customer, in some cases before I even have their phone number. Huh? What regulation asks a licensee to "divine the intent" of a customer? Ive never seen it. I have seen the ATF regulations that define firearms as to type of firearm and I've read the instructions on the 4473 that tell the licensee how to record certain firearms. "Intent" has nothing to do with anything in firearm recordkeeping. So when you receive an AR lower, do you log it as a receiver or a frame? |
I sell firearms produced by the finest child labor in the world, be it Filipino, Muslim, Mormon, Arizonan, or Texan.
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Originally Posted By backbencher: So when you receive an AR lower, do you log it as a receiver or a frame? Receiver, but "frame" is also acceptable: Frame or receiver. The term “frame or receiver” shall have the same meaning as in § 478.12. Doesn't matter one bit if its a stripped lower, a lower with an arm brace or a lower with a shoulder stock. § 478.12 Definition of Frame or Receiver. |
Plano, Texas...........the Gun Nut Capitol of Gun Culture, USA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pELwCqz2JfE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pELwCqz2JfE
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Originally Posted By DogtownTom: Receiver, but "frame" is also acceptable: Frame or receiver. The term “frame or receiver” shall have the same meaning as in § 478.12. Doesn't matter one bit if its a stripped lower, a lower with an arm brace or a lower with a shoulder stock. § 478.12 Definition of Frame or Receiver. Originally Posted By DogtownTom: Originally Posted By backbencher: So when you receive an AR lower, do you log it as a receiver or a frame? Receiver, but "frame" is also acceptable: Frame or receiver. The term “frame or receiver” shall have the same meaning as in § 478.12. Doesn't matter one bit if its a stripped lower, a lower with an arm brace or a lower with a shoulder stock. § 478.12 Definition of Frame or Receiver. Ah, they added variants of language. Ok, thanks, was not aware of that. |
I sell firearms produced by the finest child labor in the world, be it Filipino, Muslim, Mormon, Arizonan, or Texan.
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Originally Posted By backbencher: Do you not assemble shotguns before you transfer them?Good point. I’ve not yet received/sold/transferred a shotgun. I guess since the collection of parts is already a pistol, I’m not changing the classification through assembly. |
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