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Posted: 3/11/2024 10:45:41 PM EDT
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Guys, does the Panzer M4 (WALNUT) commnd / worth $150 more then the MAC 1014 also in Walnut? Both being Turk clones I have to wonder what that extra $150 spent on the Panzer gets you? Thanks! |
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1. Panzer M4 Wood model has grade 2 Turkish Walnut not std. like MAC 2. Panzer M4 Wood model has Disrubtive Gray Cerakoted receiver & barrel not std. chrome coating like MAC 3. Panzer M4 Wood model has ambidextrous charging handle not single like MAC 4. Panzer M4 Wood model has larger charging handle is bigger than MAC 5. Panzer M4 Wood model has barrel clamp but MAC sells it their website for 30$ https://sdsimports.com/mac-1014-barrel-clamp/ and when it comes to manufacturing and reliabilty; MAC brand belongs to SDS Import. They were selling M4 model as SDS Radikal SAX-2. TFB TV Youtube channel tested that gun named as Worst Turknelli GUN. After this disaster SDS decided to establish MAC brand for M4 and M2 clone guns. SDS Radikal SAX-2 model was manufactured at Radikal Arms, MAC 1014 model manufacturer is Ozerbas Makine. Import Companies like SDS - Gforce always works with different manufacturers from Turkey. They make their decisions accordingly prices of the manufacturers. When it comes to Panzer; All M4's are Made in Turkey by Panzer Arms. |
 Panzer Arms M4 Clone | The Benelli M4 At Home |
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I would love to see the MAC 1014 Parts up close if anyone can post some of their's. Here are a few of the Panzer. If you would like to compare more of my Panzer parts to your MAC 1014. Just post pics of your MAC 1014 parts at the angle you would like to see of the Panzer parts. This would be a good way to inform people of any possible differences. Let's get the information flowing! Attached File Attached File Attached File Attached File Attached File |
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I don't know, the wood I see on the MAC benelli clones is pretty damn nice!!! The MAC is a lot more clone correct than the Panzer. The Panzer takes a LOT of liberties with some parts. The MAC also uses an actual nickel teflon finish in their marine models vs paint like the Panzer. The Panzer MIGHT have better quality parts though, lots of stories about the MAC breaking gas piston parts due to them being loctighted in. I used to think that the MAC was king of the M4 clones due to them being the closest clone. The many QC issues though are making me start to rethink that though! I hear a lot less issues with the Panzer M4 clones. In fact, I don't recall hearing any issues with them! |
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Quoted: I don't know, the wood I see on the MAC benelli clones is pretty damn nice!!! The MAC is a lot more clone correct than the Panzer. The Panzer takes a LOT of liberties with some parts. The MAC also uses an actual nickel teflon finish in their marine models vs paint like the Panzer. The Panzer MIGHT have better quality parts though, lots of stories about the MAC breaking gas piston parts due to them being loctighted in. I used to think that the MAC was king of the M4 clones due to them being the closest clone. The many QC issues though are making me start to rethink that though! I hear a lot less issues with the Panzer M4 clones. In fact, I don't recall hearing any issues with them! I’m curious what the sales numbers on each is. I also have some hope that SDS will communicate warranty issues to the manufacturers and improvements will be made - time will tell if this happens. |
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Well, if Fed-Ex is right, I will have a better idea on Monday when my MAC 1014 wood stock comes in. I’ve had a Panzer Arms M4 for a few months now with zero problems with anything I’ve stuffed in it from 2 3/4” to 3” shells from buck to slug to Walmart bulk birdshot. The only thing I wasn’t thrilled about with the dirt slot on the left side of the receiver so I could for some reason have the cocking handle on that side. Not a big problem since the Velcro backing from the Esstac shot shell card covered that up nicely. Well, the enlarged trigger guard looks a little goofy I suppose but it’s not a deal breaker. The next Turknelli I got was a MAC M2. Beautiful wood and the reason I wanted to get their 1014 version. This one did have the front sight base mounted a little off to the left but I was still able to keep the rear sight centered and move the front sight over to the right so you really don’t notice it much when looking down the sights. This was another good performer again, digesting everything I’ve ran through it. But even with the slightly off sights, I still think this was another good gun and am quite happy with it so far. As for the MAC 1014, I’ve already heard about others having the gas piston plugs lock-tite in so I ordered up a pair of Benelli o-rings in the event the heat gun damages the originals when I heat it up to break down the lock-tite if mine also comes with this problem. I do like that they use the smaller trigger guard more like the originals and have a solid left side of the receiver. What else may be different than my Panzer Arms M4 remains to be seen but I’ll know more when my dealer gets it in. Fortunately, I’ll be starting my 5-days off from work that I can spend a bit of time with it and run some shells through it as well. |
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Quoted: I also have some hope that SDS will communicate warranty issues to the manufacturers and improvements will be made - time will tell if this happens. I just sent my 1014's back as they developed a problem with the next shell releasing properly after firing, or not releasing at all, the black one was worse with the Marine finish doing it much less, but did it none the less. I'm hoping that a specific part, or assembly issue, gets identified and corrected. That way, should the problem persist, I can possibly source an original Benelli part. |
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Quoted: I just sent my 1014's back as they developed a problem with the next shell releasing properly after firing, or not releasing at all, the black one was worse with the Marine finish doing it much less, but did it none the less. I'm hoping that a specific part, or assembly issue, gets identified and corrected. That way, should the problem persist, I can possibly source an original Benelli part. Quoted: Quoted: I also have some hope that SDS will communicate warranty issues to the manufacturers and improvements will be made - time will tell if this happens. I just sent my 1014's back as they developed a problem with the next shell releasing properly after firing, or not releasing at all, the black one was worse with the Marine finish doing it much less, but did it none the less. I'm hoping that a specific part, or assembly issue, gets identified and corrected. That way, should the problem persist, I can possibly source an original Benelli part. Wow, you had the same issue with two separate MAC 1014s? Not good....did they both experience the failure roughly around the same round count? |
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Quoted: I don't know, the wood I see on the MAC benelli clones is pretty damn nice!!! The MAC is a lot more clone correct than the Panzer. The Panzer takes a LOT of liberties with some parts. The MAC also uses an actual nickel teflon finish in their marine models vs paint like the Panzer. The Panzer MIGHT have better quality parts though, lots of stories about the MAC breaking gas piston parts due to them being loctighted in. I used to think that the MAC was king of the M4 clones due to them being the closest clone. The many QC issues though are making me start to rethink that though! I hear a lot less issues with the Panzer M4 clones. In fact, I don't recall hearing any issues with them! The length of the factory seam on the 5 round tube and it's extention is the only one that I recall hearing? What differences are on the Panzer that make them less correct if anyone can tell me? Edit To Add: The Panzer uses Electroless Nickel for their Marine Finish. |
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Quoted: Wow, you had the same issue with two separate MAC 1014s? Not good....did they both experience the failure roughly around the same round count? I'd say they were within a couple boxes of each other. Several hundred rounds on each SG. For some reason the shell release on the black SG started to act up. The next round would sometimes eject back like it should BUT it got stuck and jammed on the shell lifter just before tripping the bolt release... did it with various ammo. Then it got to where at times the shell wouldn't release at all. The Marine finish SG failed to release a shell a couple times but was nowhere near as problematic as the black one. I assume something is tweaked and out of spec... I fully realize they are clones and not a Benelli product. So I'm going to be patient and chalk this up to "you get what you pay for" and I'm sure SDS will figure it out. |
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Quoted: The length of the factory seam on the 5 round tube and it's extention is the only one that I recall hearing? What differences are on the Panzer that make them less correct if anyone can tell me? Well, as I mentioned earlier, there is the enlarged trigger guard, the dirt ingress slot on the left side of the receiver so you can move the cocking handle over to the left hand side and the pistol grip buttstock is a little different. I got a fixed Benelli buttstock and pistol grip on the way that should fit but I’ll know when it actually gets here. |
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Quoted: Well, as I mentioned earlier, there is the enlarged trigger guard, the dirt ingress slot on the left side of the receiver so you can move the cocking handle over to the left hand side and the pistol grip buttstock is a little different. I got a fixed Benelli buttstock and pistol grip on the way that should fit but I’ll know when it actually gets here. Quoted: Quoted: The length of the factory seam on the 5 round tube and it's extention is the only one that I recall hearing? What differences are on the Panzer that make them less correct if anyone can tell me? Well, as I mentioned earlier, there is the enlarged trigger guard, the dirt ingress slot on the left side of the receiver so you can move the cocking handle over to the left hand side and the pistol grip buttstock is a little different. I got a fixed Benelli buttstock and pistol grip on the way that should fit but I’ll know when it actually gets here. Thanks, My Panzer M4 Marine doesn't have the charging handle cut on the left side. I actually like the trigger guard. You have a good source for the Benelli stock and grip by chance. I tried removing my fixed Panzer stock. But it doesn't spin off with the trigger housing removed like the Benelli. I am thinking it might have a bolt or nut holding it on under the butt pad? However I don't want to risk damaging it without knowing for sure how it is removed. ETA: FYI: Yes two standard Philips screws in the but pads tiny holes. Under the butt pad is a #6 Alen bolt. Thanks |
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Here ya go: https://www.gunbroker.com/item/1066543519 Not 100% sure it will fit but it’s supposed to be in the mail for delivery tomorrow….if the postal system can get their poop in a group and not let my packages rot in their system an hour away from here. I’ll post an update if it fits without any trouble or what this turns out like. |
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Quoted: Here ya go: https://www.gunbroker.com/item/1066543519 Not 100% sure it will fit but it’s supposed to be in the mail for delivery tomorrow….if the postal system can get their poop in a group and not let my packages rot in their system an hour away from here. I’ll post an update if it fits without any trouble or what this turns out like. Thanks, @AFSOC_COP Please let me know if it fits. If the buffer tube has the same threads as Benelli. It should fit. |
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Well, it seems like it’s the same size bolt going from the Benelli stock to the Panzer M4 but me thinks the thread pitch is slightly different. Much like an Israeli FAL barrel into a metric receiver, it starts but then starts getting oddly tight about half ways through. My current plan is to get the stock bolt out of the Benelli stock (which is a challenge unto its self as those folks across the pond LOVE their lock-tite! Once I get it apart, I’m going to try to chase down the threads with the propper sized die and see if that will work. Another option is to try a Benelli recoil spring tube plug but then I have to wonder if the plug will thread into the Panzer’s recoil spring tube or am I back to another thread pitch issue. But yeah, this is no plug and play operation happening here. Now as far as the MAC 1014, that also came in today. I was glad to see there wasn’t a lot of Turkish mystery thread locker on both the gas piston plugs or the magazine tube. Maybe Benelli’s love for the crap caused a shortage over there in Turkey now.  I got the piston plugs screwed out without any problems and the magazine came loose with only about 5 minutes of heat gun time. One thing that is going to change sooner rather than later is the cocking handle. It’s a bit smaller than the Panzer cocking handle and has some sharp edges as well so that’s getting changed out. I’ve only fired half a box of cheap Walmart birdshot through it today but so far, no problems.
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Did you check if the MAC 1014 had the Benelli thread pattern buffer tube threads? Or are they the same as the Panzer? @AFSOC_COP I got the Panzer tube on today. Yeah it was full of locktight too. Attached File |
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Quoted: No, I have t tried to take the stocks off the MAC. Really, I just want a little beefier pistol grip than what the Panzer Arms stock has. Well, that and I’m not exactly how secure the sling loops in the Panzer stock are attached. @AFSOC_COP I would really like to know if the MAC 1014 BUFFER TUBE threads are the same as the Benelli. Or if they are the same as the Panzer. If you get a chance? I would really like to know the answer to this if anyone can tell me for certain. Thanks ETA: The MAC 1014 Marine and the PANZER M4 Marine receivers appear Identical. Other than inscriptions and slight finish texture. Despite roomers I have heard that one is more compatible with Benelli parts. Both had excessive lock tight in their threads and required a quite a bit of heat to remove their tubes. |
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Got my MAC 1014's back, repair notes indicate one had the shell stop REPLKACED whereas the other the shell stop was TUNED. I have no idea what TUNED means... I assume bent in one way or the other. Will try to do a function check soon and see if they are back up and running. |
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Quoted: 1. Panzer M4 Wood model has grade 2 Turkish Walnut not std. like MAC 2. Panzer M4 Wood model has Disrubtive Gray Cerakoted receiver & barrel not std. chrome coating like MAC 3. Panzer M4 Wood model has ambidextrous charging handle not single like MAC 4. Panzer M4 Wood model has larger charging handle is bigger than MAC 5. Panzer M4 Wood model has barrel clamp but MAC sells it their website for 30$ https://sdsimports.com/mac-1014-barrel-clamp/ and when it comes to manufacturing and reliabilty; MAC brand belongs to SDS Import. They were selling M4 model as SDS Radikal SAX-2. TFB TV Youtube channel tested that gun named as Worst Turknelli GUN. After this disaster SDS decided to establish MAC brand for M4 and M2 clone guns. SDS Radikal SAX-2 model was manufactured at Radikal Arms, MAC 1014 model manufacturer is Ozerbas Makine. Import Companies like SDS - Gforce always works with different manufacturers from Turkey. They make their decisions accordingly prices of the manufacturers. When it comes to Panzer; All M4's are Made in Turkey by Panzer Arms. Revisiting this post because I believe it to be more true than I initially cared to believe. I wish Panzer's clone was a little more correct, but it seems to be the most reliable low cost option at the moment. I just don't trust the MAC1014s anymore. The MAC 2s on the other hand, might be ok since they are a lot simpler (just a recoil spring). There is no gas system components for them to mess up! |
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