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New to the 308. Some ammo info is needed please. (Page 1 of 2)
Posted: 8/3/2025 12:49:39 AM EDT
[Last Edit: tooly][Edited]
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Getting a scout squad and would like to know about range ammo and SD ammo? Thanks guys...Im sure this question have been ask a billion times. I've read speer gold dot 168 gr. Sp is good. |
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Rifles tend to like some bullet weights and brands of ammo better than others. Finding what your rifle likes can be challenging. Look for YouTube reviews of your brand and model to see how similar rifles did. I have a strong preference for Barnes ammo but I also reload. It is not uncommon to have two rifles same caliber that one groups well with one bullet weight and the other does not. How stable the rifle is when testing ammo makes lots of difference. One of the cheapest ways to make high quality sandbags is to sew up old blue Jean pant legs full of dry whole kernel corn or beans . A bipod is also helpful or you can use a lead sled etc . By Scout Squad - if you referring to the M1a Scout Squad it is important to upgrade the gas plug to one that has more volume these are the solution. Smith Enterprises Gas Plug Schuster adjustable gas plug M1a rifles use lower powder charges than bolt action .308 if you look in a Horniday reloading manual. The ball ammo that you find is made for these rifles. One does not shoot 180 grain or heavier bullets in an M1a it can bend the op rod. There is info on these rifles if you search the web. The screw above the gas plug will turn 90 degrees and turn off the gas system. If all you had was 180 gr ammo you could turn off the gas system and cycle them manually . |
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For range use, I usually just use whichever 147-150 grain fmj is available at the best price. Back in 2011, I bought a case of Magtech 150 grain that I’m still shooting. As far as self defense ammo goes, there’s not many two legged critters that are going to walk away from a center mass hit from any .308 round. Years ago, I bought some German DAG surplus with the 147 grain (maybe AP7 bullet?) that is supposed to fragment violently within moderate range. But any soft point, or hollow point bullet will be an immediate threat stopper with the .308. |
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Originally Posted By Urimaginaryfrnd: Rifles tend to like some bullet weights and brands of ammo better than others. Finding what your rifle likes can be challenging. Look for YouTube reviews of your brand and model to see how similar rifles did. I have a strong preference for Barnes ammo but I also reload. It is not uncommon to have two rifles same caliber that one groups well with one bullet weight and the other does not. How stable the rifle is when testing ammo makes lots of difference. One of the cheapest ways to make high quality sandbags is to sew up old blue Jean pant legs full of dry whole kernel corn or beans . A bipod is also helpful or you can use a lead sled etc . By Scout Squad - if you referring to the M1a Scout Squad it is important to upgrade the gas plug to one that has more volume these are the solution. Smith Enterprises Gas Plug Schuster adjustable gas plug M1a rifles use lower powder charges than bolt action .308 if you look in a Horniday reloading manual. The ball ammo that you find is made for these rifles. One does not shoot 180 grain or heavier bullets in an M1a it can bend the op rod. There is info on these rifles if you search the web. The screw above the gas plug will turn 90 degrees and turn off the gas system. If all you had was 180 gr ammo you could turn off the gas system and cycle them manually . Thank you very much for ya feedback. What gas plug is better? Again...thank you very much! |
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Originally Posted By JHMC79: For range use, I usually just use whichever 147-150 grain fmj is available at the best price. Back in 2011, I bought a case of Magtech 150 grain that I’m still shooting. As far as self defense ammo goes, there’s not many two legged critters that are going to walk away from a center mass hit from any .308 round. Years ago, I bought some German DAG surplus with the 147 grain (maybe AP7 bullet?) that is supposed to fragment violently within moderate range. But any soft point, or hollow point bullet will be an immediate threat stopper with the .308. Thank you...just don't want over penetration. |
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Originally Posted By JHMC79: For range use, I usually just use whichever 147-150 grain fmj is available at the best price. Back in 2011, I bought a case of Magtech 150 grain that I’m still shooting. As far as self defense ammo goes, there’s not many two legged critters that are going to walk away from a center mass hit from any .308 round. Years ago, I bought some German DAG surplus with the 147 grain (maybe AP7 bullet?) that is supposed to fragment violently within moderate range. But any soft point, or hollow point bullet will be an immediate threat stopper with the .308. Ditto! That DAG stuff was a bargain if you got it out of the packaging so it wouldn't corrode. |
| I have a Schuster that has larger volume and a small hole drilled in the end that reduces pressure , it’s not the adjustable model and I couldn’t find it listed, the adjustable model should do the same perhaps better. It looks like their company is limiting production. Anything Smith Enterprises makes that I have used has been Tier 1 absolutely great. You might call Smith Enterprises tell them what you have and ask their recommendation. |
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Schuster is out-of-business. You may be able to find a NOS for sale online somewhere. IMO, the M1-A doesn't need any modifications to its gas system. .308/7.62x51mm brass is not interchangeable. Military spec brass weighs close to 180 grains, empty and unprimed. Commercial .308 brass cases can weigh as little as 155 grains. That means there is a huge difference in internal case capacity. I reduce powder charges a full 2.0 grains when using Federal commercial .308 or any brass case that is flirting with the 180-grain window. Attached File Pay close attention to the pressure changes when using a maximum load of IMR-4895 w/168 grain SMK's and simply swapping primers or brands of brass in the above posted data. This pressure testing was done by a U.S. Government ballistician responsible for ensuring that all NATO issued ammo was compatible between the various member nations. Attached File Attached File If you cross-reference this data to most published sources that use commercial .308 brass, you will discover that maximum loads in military brass is usually close to a starting load in most manuals. Caveat emptor. |
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Also resist the urge to put a scope on it unless it’s a forward mounted scout scope or red dot. Cheek weld with the stock is worse than bad unless you change the stock. Also apply a little gun grease on the threads of the gas plug every time you disassemble it to clean. |
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Originally Posted By tooly: So..out of the 18inch barrel say 100 yards or less maybe, 150gr. Or 168 speer gold dot? Thanks to all I zero all of my high-power rifles at 200 yards. Sierra has a new line of 168 grain match grade bullets that are designed for hunting purposes, unlike their Match King line. I would look into those as a dual-purpose target/hunting/self-defense projectile. The data I posted will work well with them. I was so disappointed with surplus M80 ball in the early 1980's when fired from match grade M1-A's, I decided to reload. 168's are my favorite. 175's are great too. If you get a chronograph, and I suggest you do, you will need to subtract 150 fps from published velocities to compensate for you 18" barrel and maximum loads. .308 loses approximately 25 fps for every inch a barrel is shorter than 24" in length. |
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Originally Posted By borderpatrol: I zero all of my high-power rifles at 200 yards. Sierra has a new line of 168 grain match grade bullets that are designed for hunting purposes, unlike their Match King line. I would look into those as a dual-purpose target/hunting/self-defense projectile. The data I posted will work well with them. I was so disappointed with surplus M80 ball in the early 1980's when fired from match grade M1-A's, I decided to reload. 168's are my favorite. 175's are great too. If you get a chronograph, and I suggest you do, you will need to subtract 150 fps from published velocities to compensate for you 18" barrel and maximum loads. .308 loses approximately 25 fps for every inch a barrel is shorter than 24" in length. You make this sound like a science,do you have a site, I can find the ones youre recommening, I look at what ya posted but not sure on that round. Thank you very much. |
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Originally Posted By tooly: You make this sound like a science,do you have a site, I can find the ones youre recommening, I look at what ya posted but not sure on that round. Thank you very much. Originally Posted By tooly: Originally Posted By borderpatrol: I zero all of my high-power rifles at 200 yards. Sierra has a new line of 168 grain match grade bullets that are designed for hunting purposes, unlike their Match King line. I would look into those as a dual-purpose target/hunting/self-defense projectile. The data I posted will work well with them. I was so disappointed with surplus M80 ball in the early 1980's when fired from match grade M1-A's, I decided to reload. 168's are my favorite. 175's are great too. If you get a chronograph, and I suggest you do, you will need to subtract 150 fps from published velocities to compensate for you 18" barrel and maximum loads. .308 loses approximately 25 fps for every inch a barrel is shorter than 24" in length. You make this sound like a science,do you have a site, I can find the ones youre recommening, I look at what ya posted but not sure on that round. Thank you very much. Go directly to Sierra Bullets website. |
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| I don't have an M1A but I use 147-150gr ball ammo for range ammo out of my SCAR and for hunting I usually use 150gr fusion. It has worked on javelina, pronghorn, whitetail and mule deer. And one elk, but for elk I usually step up to Hornady precision hunter. I was told that 178gr is too much for my 1:12 barrel but no one told my rifle that and it's worked every time and the holdovers inside of 450 are close enough that I don't have to adjust my optic much if at all and the 150 ball and 150 fusion print identical out of my rifle. Of course, like other posters said, what your rifle likes varies from rifle to rifle. |
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I use white lithium grease, but there may now be better options. I would also check out "M14 - The Firing Line" online forum, they're a forum dedicated to this rifle. For some historical context about using an Aimpoint on a M14, look up Randy Shughart. If you zero a red dot at 200 yards, you'll be roughly on target using a 6 O'clock hold at 100 yards on a 6" target and by "Dotting the i" on a 12"×18" target at 300 yards (this works for 5.46x45 and 7.62x51). |
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Originally Posted By tooly: Thank you very much. Does it say urban after tap. #80896 ? It's all the same 110gr bullet... current offerings do have Urban in the title. As demonstrated in the below video, this ammo is sub MOA out of several of my Aero M5 builds.  308 Winchester TACTICAL APPLICATION POLICE! Ballistics Gel Ammo Test |
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Originally Posted By tooly: I just seen that vid. So this should run fine, in my m1a? I hate not knowing about this stuff, but this is my first 308. I'm still learning...bought 5 checkmate mags, just got them in. It ran just fine in M14's... runs fine in both my M1A's and all my Aero M5 builds. |
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Originally Posted By tooly: I looked for this ammo, and everywhere I see it, shows only LE can only purchase it.  Never had such a hard time looking for good ammo. Try calling Mile High... it's says "Intended for LE and Military Use Only"... perhaps they will sell it to you. Some places have to add that disclaimer but just might sell it to you anyway. Mile High If not, find a cop locally. I reload, and while I have a pile of factory 110 TAP, I have duplicated the load using the 110gr V-Max bullet. Hornady Maybe someone locally will whip you up a batch. |
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So figured I'd let ya know what was said when I called that company today,hornady made them sign a contract stating they can't sell to the public. That's pure shit! If not mistaken midway sells the same stuff but in a different box. I'm wondering if I should go with hornady 155 gr. Critical defence ftx. |
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Originally Posted By tooly: So figured I'd let ya know what was said when I called that company today,hornady made them sign a contract stating they can't sell to the public. That's pure shit! If not mistaken midway sells the same stuff but in a different box. I'm wondering if I should go with hornady 155 gr. Critical defence ftx. Yeah that sucks. The 155gr is probably just as good. |
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FWIW... In my M21, 308 SP ammo can do some serious damage. Generic SP bullets Sierra 165gr Game Kings have been outstanding. And even Federal 150gr and 180gr "Blue Box" SP's. So don't overlook some basic soft point ammo... you might want to try a variety of SP ammo, just to see which shoots well from your barrel. Adj. Gas plug... https://www.fulton-armory.com/gascylinderplugsystemadjustablem14.aspx And if you need a shorter version... https://www.fulton-armory.com/gas-cylinder-plug-adjustable-socom-by-fulton-armory.aspx And... a dedicated to the M1A forum... https://www.m14forum.com/ |
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This has been a damn joke...I've been told by SPINGFIELD, DO NOT USE SP OR AND POLYMER ROUNDS! I called this morning and a tech told me polymer is fine but no SP, with lead exposed! The this woman that's been there for a lifetime, emailed me, and told me different. And I let her know what was told to me this morning, so she talked to head of production and said... No SP OR POLYMER ROUNDS! I'm just looking for rounds that won't over penetrate way to much. I know it's funny saying those words and talking about 308. Cause if I could've shot SP, I'd get speer gold dot. |
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Originally Posted By tooly: I'm just looking for rounds that won't over penetrate way to much. I know it's funny saying those words and talking about 308. Can you explain the apparent contradiction inherent in your statement? Even you recognized it. I couldn't get past when I first read this thread. What, exactly, are you after? Where is "The Box of Truth" when you really need it? I quote one of the articles there - First a .308 TAP, which had a 165 grain Hornady plastic tip bullet. It went through all 12 boards, blew up the water jug, but only bounced off the wood in front of the boards. That's what it was designed to do. Next I shot it with a round of South African military ball, 7.62 X 51 mm, M1A2. This round went through 12 boards of sheetrock, busted the water jug, busted a brick, but was stopped by the brick. The water spray was impressive, to say the least.  At its end of travel, it hit a brick - 
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Originally Posted By tooly: Ya want to somehow try to "clown me" Dont bother to even comment. Huh!?, my intention was nothing of the sort. I hope you found some of what I posted helpful. It shows pretty clearly that both an expanding bullet and an FMJ in 308 caliber penetrate through many, many layers of common building materials. It is my understanding that expanding projectiles are designed to dump more of their energy in the first thing they hit (but not all of it). As you can see, above, they go right through just about anything and keep going. The Box of Truth web site has penetration test results for many common cartridges in both handgun and rifles. While presented in an entertaining way, it makes for some sobering reading. If you do not find what I've posted helpful, just let me know and I can remove it. |
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No problem. On a lighter note - I thought it was amazing when I watched a WWII US Army training film which showed mock German soldiers hiding behind full-grown trees. They were instructing the recruits to engage the soldiers by shooting RIGHT THROUGH the tree with their M1 Garand/30-06. The trees were ~18" in diameter, enough to hide behind. The idea was a tree is concealment but NOT COVER. The 308 is only a little less energetic than the 30-06 (5-10% less). As you can tell, I have never forgotten that. |
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Originally Posted By tooly: Thank you...just don't want over penetration. Originally Posted By tooly: Originally Posted By JHMC79: For range use, I usually just use whichever 147-150 grain fmj is available at the best price. Back in 2011, I bought a case of Magtech 150 grain that I’m still shooting. As far as self defense ammo goes, there’s not many two legged critters that are going to walk away from a center mass hit from any .308 round. Years ago, I bought some German DAG surplus with the 147 grain (maybe AP7 bullet?) that is supposed to fragment violently within moderate range. But any soft point, or hollow point bullet will be an immediate threat stopper with the .308. Thank you...just don't want over penetration. 168gr or 175gr TMK. Nasty in ballistic gel.  Ballistics gel hunting vs match bullets episode 22 - TMK (Tipped Match Kings) |
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Originally Posted By tooly: That's great...but Springfield says ya shouldn't run ballistic tip rounds. Did they specifically say why? I've shot BT's for over twenty years in my M1A's and over a hundred officers used them (110 TAP) in M14's when our agency issued them as patrol rifles. I call BS... but you do as you feel best for you. |
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Originally Posted By tooly: That's great...but Springfield says ya shouldn't run ballistic tip rounds. You are overthinking it. Just pick a bullet, experiment with it, and see what does best in your platform. |
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“In my opinion, the M1 Rifle is the greatest battle implement ever devised” - George S. Patton
Proud Member of the Leather Head Mafia
“In my opinion, the M1 Rifle is the greatest battle implement ever devised” - George S. Patton
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Lexi...Ive emailed her and yesterday spoke to her. I told her, I'm getting conflicting info all from their own company! She told me head of production told her that NO soft point or bulistic tips are recommended, but it won't renuin the gun, but can shave off parts of the round and might cause jams and foul up the parts. Then I proceeded to tell her own their own site it says... #4 Regarding ammo.... ((AMMUNITION RECOMMENDATIONS FOR YOUR M1A RIFLE USE COMMERCIALLY PRODUCED,NEW 308 CALIBER FUL METAL JACKET, HOLLOW POINT OR BULISTIC TIP TYPE OF BULLET. DO NOT USE SOFT POINT OR "LIGHT MAGNUM" TYPE AMMO)) So proceeded to read that statement regarding the type of ammo that can and can't be use per the paragraph on their site. Then she asked if I got that info on their site and told her yes...then she looked it up and said the ones that type that up don't know and that the head of production knows more being what he's involved with. She told me that they will be notified regarding this..I told her this is crazy being it's so damn hard to find what and what not is ok for this frigging rifle. I'm not lying. |
New to the 308. Some ammo info is needed please. (Page 1 of 2)
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