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New to lever actions… Need some guidance. (Page 1 of 2)
Posted: 1/3/2025 11:11:07 PM EDT
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So i guess this is really a caliber question… I’ve wanted a lever action for years, but they’ve always taken a back seat to other more ‘practical’ and modern rifles. But this is the year I’m gonna finally dip my toe in. I’m planning on picking up a 19 inch Marlin SBL soon. Aside from hearing great things about them, I’m really liking the aesthetics of the rifle. I’m leaning towards the .45-70 just because I really like the idea of such a hard hitting cartridge, and ‘why not’? But at the same time I’m not sure if it won’t be plain overkill. I probably wouldn’t use it for hunting, and as hard as it kicks I’m not sure if I’d do much target practice or fun gunning with it. So again, I’m thinking maybe the .30-30 might be a more practical chambering? Just looking for some opinions and what the pros and cons of each cartridge is in the platform? |
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The HSM 45/70 isn't too bad in the kick department, loaded to original specs IIRC. Honestly, I think 30-30 is a little snappier. 45 colt isn't bad (kind of bloops out at 600 fps with cheap ammo), can upload it if you reload (same as most rounds). I know I'm not helping 
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Your first lever gun should be a .30-30 imho. My fav: Attached File |
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| Having several including a couple 45-70s, I would consider ammo cost and ease of shooting. My favorite is my .357. Fun to plink and target shoot comfortably for hours. Levers are a blast to shoot have fun! |
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Originally Posted By WhiskeyBear: If only 1 and just to scratch itch… 357 More capacity. Cheaper to feed. Fun to shoot 38 cream puff and full house 357 ain’t no joke. Marlin sbl 38 subs suppressed will be fun. Suppressed .38 is a lot of fun… Attached File |
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Originally Posted By WhiskeyBear: If only 1 and just to scratch itch… 357 More capacity. Cheaper to feed. Fun to shoot 38 cream puff and full house 357 ain’t no joke. Marlin sbl 38 subs suppressed will be fun. yep 357 is the way 38's are mild, like little kids can handle it, like 22LR full power 357 magnums out of a 16" barrel are a much higher velocity than a revolver  
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357, or 44. If you’re going to reload then they work out to about the same price. Now stop and think one step ahead to what wheel gun you’re going to pair it with next and work backwards to the rifle caliber. 45-70 is great, but unless you really need or plan on using it for hunting you can get the same fun experience out of one of the pistol calibers. And by now you’ve received several recommendations how much more practical they are. |
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Two negatives for .45-70. Recoil and cost of factory ammo. If you learn to cast and reload, you can get ammo cost down almost as cheap as upper level .22LR, and a Limbsaver recoil pad helps the other issue in a big way. If you go with a Limbsaver you may or may not be able to find an "exact fit" model close enough for your liking. For my Marlin I had to get a grind to fit, everything else was JUST enough "off" to be annoying. |
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| I’d go .357, but 44 is a great option too. Both are easy and way less expensive to reload. 45-70 is almost always expensive to shoot. Even reloading it’s like $.80/ea just for the brass when you can find it. True the 45-70 is just cool, but for fun I choose the .357 or 44. |
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Originally Posted By CaptShiess: I’d go .357, but 44 is a great option too. Both are easy and way less expensive to reload. 45-70 is almost always expensive to shoot. Even reloading it’s like $.80/ea just for the brass when you can find it. True the 45-70 is just cool, but for fun I choose the .357 or 44. Also a valid concern, but if OP buys a .45-70, posts pics and PMs his address I'll send him some free brass to get him started. Got more than I'm likely to use thanks to a friend who used to work at an indoor range saving it for me at cleanup time. ETA-on the other hand, for pure fun value, .22 can't be beat. Find a nice, pre safety 39A. |
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Originally Posted By Colt653: you guys that are saying "45-70 reload" ,....what economical 45-70 handloads are you running ? because when I look at load data, I see massive amounts of powder  12-15 grains of Unique is a good, cheap plinking load. |
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45-70 ass stomping power big bears, elk, moose up close. Loads vary from light to very strong . Big holes. 30-30 good for deer size game under 200 yds moderate recoil. 360 Buckhammer (Henry ) flatter trajectory stronger than 30-30 45 long Colt. Easy to reload, shorter lever throw big holes 44 mag. Easy to reload, shorter lever throw big holes .357 mag Easy to reload , shorter lever throw Hogdon Reloading Data |
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I recently got a Marlin 357 because I’ve always wanted one and is the only common lever gun chambering I haven’t previously had. That little rifle is in the running to become my favorite rifle I’ve ever owned. It’s an extremely practical rifle too. Can be used for target shooting, hunting, and defense. To those implying that a 357 isn’t a good hunting round… LOL. 357 has been used for handgun hunting for a long time and is quite effective, a 357 lever gun pretty much has the same velocity and energy with any given load at 200 yards as a 6” revolver does at the muzzle. It probably wouldn’t be my first choice for something big like elk although I’m sure it works, but thousands if not tens of thousands of deer and black bear have been killed with 357’s. |
| Just for reference. A 45 colt can be safely loaded to exceed the original 45-70 Buffalo load, easily surpasses 30-30 and completely blows 44 mag out of the water. I have been handloading (and using Buff Bore/Garrett Hammerheads) for years now and absolutely love it. Paco Kelly.did a huge study on this and put tens of thousands of rounds of 55,000 psi loads through multiple 92,94 and 95 actions without any showing abnormal wear. I have close to 3000 rounds of 45 colt +p (300 grain xtps at 1750fps) through both my 1892s. The load shoots 1.5" at 125 yards and with a 150 yard zero is capable of killing deer sized game out to 200 with 6" of drop. Yes, its effective further but I am not comfortanle shooting it further than that at game animals. Plus, the rifle holds 14 rounds of the stuff 👹 |
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444 Marlin is the answer.  Less recoil than a 45-70, straight wall EZ to reload with pistol bullets for plinking. Cut paper @ 100 yards |
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OP from your post, I recommend the 45/70. It is pretty easy on the shoulder with Trapdoor level loads, not so easy with loads at dinosaur hunting level.  Going in the other direction, I like the 357 magnum. It is quite stout in a rifle length barrel, quiet with 38 Specials and a suppressor, along with cheaper than the 45/70. There are a lot of options with lever guns. Show us your 45/70 when you get it. |
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Lots of good opinions. I have way more lever guns than I need, but I do have some favorites. Pistol calibers are fun and economical, but limited in power and range. For pistol calibers, I prefer the .44 mag. For rifle calibers, the 30-30 is a great all around cartridge. I have Winchesters and Marlins in 30-30 and the will definitely put deer on the ground. Now for my personal favorites. I have Browning and a Marlin SBL in 45-70. The Browning is fun, but I really enjoy my Marlin. It is superbly accurate for a lever gun, putting 3 Hornady factory rounds into lees than an inch at 100 yards off my bench. Great hunting gun and just a fun rifle to carry into the woods or take to the range. Ammunition is a little more expensive, but not bad if you shop around. Reloading is cheaper and easy with the straight walled case. Recoil is not bad at all with the Hornady factory loads. You can buy or load elephant power rounds if you want or need them. My local deer are not that tough and don't go far after a hit with my 45-70. Whatever you choose, enjoy it. Just be aware that lever guns multiply. If you buy one you will buy more! You have been warned! |
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Originally Posted By WhiskeyBear: If only 1 and just to scratch itch… 357 More capacity. Cheaper to feed. Fun to shoot 38 cream puff and full house 357 ain’t no joke. Marlin sbl 38 subs suppressed will be fun. This is where I went. I wanted a centerfire plinker. I already owned a Marlin 336 .30-30 and also have a 1885 High Wall .38-55. I wanted a Winchester 92 but couldn’t get my hands on one for two years in .357 magnum. When Ruger had the 1894 Classic available my buddy FFL got one. Half the problem is I believe Winchester/Miroku production numbers are stifled to prop up prices. The wood and steel guns are in the catalog but rarely available. You can buy plastic bolt guns of dubious quality all day long. 
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The only hyphenated names I like are cartridge names......30-06, 30-40, 38-55 etc.
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Originally Posted By shack357: 12-15 grains of Unique is a good, cheap plinking load. Originally Posted By shack357: Originally Posted By Colt653: you guys that are saying "45-70 reload" ,....what economical 45-70 handloads are you running ? because when I look at load data, I see massive amounts of powder 12-15 grains of Unique is a good, cheap plinking load. Was going to suggest this. 12 grains of Unique with a 405 grain cast bullet would get me around 1075 fps. Fun plinking load and would still wack things pretty hard. |
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Wow… I wanna take a moment and thank everyone who has responded so far. I really didn’t expect to get so much feedback so quickly. You guys rock! Just to clarify a few things that have comes up or been mentioned… 1) I shoot a lot of milsurp rifles so I do reload. So the cost of .45-70 (or .30-30 for that matter) and availability of manufactured ammo isn’t high on importance. The plan regardless is to test out some manufactured ammo, but ultimately I’ll be reloading my own. 2) As much as I appreciate the pistol caliber recommendations, I’m only looking at .30-30 and .45-70 variants right now. That said, I do plan on adding a pistol caliber variant down the line. And for that I’m currently thinking .44 Mag, but I’m sure I’ll be hitting you guys up for advice on that one too when the time comes. |
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Originally Posted By GerryOwen: Wow… I wanna take a moment and thank everyone who has responded so far. I really didn’t expect to get so much feedback so quickly. You guys rock! Just to clarify a few things that have comes up or been mentioned… 1) I shoot a lot of milsurp rifles so I do reload. So the cost of .45-70 (or .30-30 for that matter) and availability of manufactured ammo isn’t high on importance. The plan regardless is to test out some manufactured ammo, but ultimately I’ll be reloading my own. 2) As much as I appreciate the pistol caliber recommendations, I’m only looking at .30-30 and .45-70 variants right now. That said, I do plan on adding a pistol caliber variant down the line. And for that I’m currently thinking .44 Mag, but I’m sure I’ll be hitting you guys up for advice on that one too when the time comes. The 444 is a rifle cartridge, the pistol cartridges are too soft. The 45-70's sit in safes. |
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Originally Posted By GerryOwen: So i guess this is really a caliber question… I’ve wanted a lever action for years, but they’ve always taken a back seat to other more ‘practical’ and modern rifles. But this is the year I’m gonna finally dip my toe in. I’m planning on picking up a 19 inch Marlin SBL soon. Aside from hearing great things about them, I’m really liking the aesthetics of the rifle. I’m leaning towards the .45-70 just because I really like the idea of such a hard hitting cartridge, and ‘why not’? But at the same time I’m not sure if it won’t be plain overkill. I probably wouldn’t use it for hunting, and as hard as it kicks I’m not sure if I’d do much target practice or fun gunning with it. So again, I’m thinking maybe the .30-30 might be a more practical chambering? Just looking for some opinions and what the pros and cons of each cartridge is in the platform? So, a fun gun? If you reload, something like a 45/70 CAN be fun. Factory loads have a pretty good thump to them. Depending on the rifle you shoot them out of, stock geometry. Drop, comb height, that sort of thing it either pushes you or whacks you. If you reload, making some nice plinker loads that are accurate ANNNND don't beat your shoulder is a plus. If you don't reload, I'd pick a smaller caliber. Henry, Marlin, would be my picks along with some of the Uberti/Italian clones. They're really pretty good. I would avoid Winchester. None of their guns are made in the US anymore and I see more crap than not out of them. 38/357, 44mag, 45LC all good choices. Factory ammunition for the4's is 'spensive. Bout forty-fifty a box/50. If that skeers ya, don't buy a 45/70 LOL. 30/30 doesn't thump me, kinda mild. But recoil is largely a matter of perception. Get a good recoil pad like a KikEze and your problem's solv-ED. My cowboy handloads for the 45LC, out of a 24" barrel were 250gr LRNFP, 1050fps average. My cowboy handloads for 38SP, 158gr LRNFP were running right around 900 out of revolvers, just over 1000 in the rifles. My smokeless loads for the 45/70 long range loads I liked were pushing a 405gr moly bullet at just under 1300. recoil with my Sharps was more of a push but that had a steel buttplate and a low comb stock. My cheekweld with a ladder sight, if I didn't pay attention, she'd smack me LOL. Didn't lose no teef though...... If you just want a plinking/shooting fun gun, I'd buy one in 357. Shoot 38's when you want, scrub the chamber real good between those and magnums. Have fun!! |
| I don't have any experience with any lever action but I've always wanted one, I thought I wanted a 30-30. Now I have several calibers on many platforms but no real big bore. I seen a video on the new Marlin SBL 45-70 was so taken in I bought it on impulse, it is absolutely gorgeous imho. I have reload stuff so no big deal but I do have a big bore now. Of course I had to suppress it and bought a Bushwhacker 46. I haven't had the chance to shoot it yet that's how new it is. |
long winded review: Unveiling The Hidden Gem: The Powerful Marlin .444 Rifle data included:  444 Marlin vs. 45-70 Govt |
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I'm a 38/357 fan for the practicality and versatility. 357 approaches 7.62x39 in velocity and bullet weight on the high end, can be 22lr level of quiet on the low end. All the other calibers, add cost, size and availability issues(30/30 has seen shortages especially at hunting season opening). 45colt is almost as easy if you reload but as a matched pair with a revolver, its options wain unless you get a ruger Blackhawk or red hawk(s&w revolvers can't see full potential of the round). ETA; I ordered the 357 SBL, delivery inbound |
| Another vote for 357. I had a Rossi 92 and currently have a new Marlin 1894. 45 70 is a good caliber but not a range toy unless you reload. Even with 357 loads the Marlin is pleasant to shoot. With 38's it like shooting a 22. The 357 is more than adequate for Iowa deer hunting, if I could ever see a deer.......... |
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I recently purchased a new (Ruger) Marlin 1895SLB in ,45-70. That is absolutely the caliber you want. With it, you can take anything that walks in North America. You can download the cartridge so mild even a small child will enjoy hitting targets or so hot that you can confidently hunt Moose or Grizzly with it. I like mine so much, I just bought a 1894SBL in .44mag with a 16” barrel. These are GREAT guns and worth every penny! In all fairness, I already inherited a pre-64 Winchester model 94, so I’ve got .30-30 covered. It’s an OK cartridge as long as you recognize its limitations. Hornady’s “Leverlution” loads have resuscitated it to some degree but it will never be what .45-70 offers. |
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Originally Posted By arndog123: I have Henry X’s in 357, 44 and 45-70. The 357 gets shot the most and is hilariously quiet with suppressed 38 Specials. https://i.ibb.co/4TRf8Jz/IMG-0999.jpg My 22 levers get shot even more. https://i.ibb.co/xqVZDy6/IMG-0675.jpg @arndog123, Tell me more about that .22 on the bottom… |
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Originally Posted By StromBusa: long winded review:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=In_wiNfmg6Mdata included: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_-Q5ZvLliuYComparing 444 to 45-70 is kinda apples to oranges in most of these videos. 444 is a relatively modern cartridge while 44-70 has been around since the days of black powder so most factory loads are pretty anemic so the typical joe sixpack doesn't blow himself and his grandpa's trapdoor to pieces. A real comparison would be to use identical modern Marlins and full power ammo from Garrett, Buffalo Bore, Underwood, or similar. |
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I've got leverguns in various calibers: a .22 lr., 2ea .357 Mags, 2ea .45 Colts, a 30-30, a .300 Savage and a .308 and the ones that get used more than all the others combined are my .357 Mags. The next most used are my .45 Colts followed by my 30-30. I shoot them for the joy of it as plinking arms, not as hunters so the pistol calibers work well as they don't have to have the power to knock down game. I shoot mostly at 200 yds or a bit farther and engage reactive targets rather than shooting paper so that affects my choices as well. Most of my leverguns have iron sights as the .300 Savage and .308 are the only one's with scopes and they get used the least of all of them. My 5 most favorite (.357 mag, .45 Colt and 30-30) all have peep or tang sights and the enjoyment of shooting irons at distance just can't be beat in my book. |
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Originally Posted By Wirebrush: Comparing 444 to 45-70 is kinda apples to oranges in most of these videos. 444 is a relatively modern cartridge while 44-70 has been around since the days of black powder so most factory loads are pretty anemic so the typical joe sixpack doesn't blow himself and his grandpa's trapdoor to pieces. A real comparison would be to use identical modern Marlins and full power ammo from Garrett, Buffalo Bore, Underwood, or similar. Originally Posted By Wirebrush: Originally Posted By StromBusa: long winded review: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=In_wiNfmg6Mdata included: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_-Q5ZvLliuYComparing 444 to 45-70 is kinda apples to oranges in most of these videos. 444 is a relatively modern cartridge while 44-70 has been around since the days of black powder so most factory loads are pretty anemic so the typical joe sixpack doesn't blow himself and his grandpa's trapdoor to pieces. A real comparison would be to use identical modern Marlins and full power ammo from Garrett, Buffalo Bore, Underwood, or similar. agreed, I just like mine so much that I try to spread awareness, I bought brass by the hundreds and just love the way it kersmackers my 100 yard gong off the front deck. A real crowd pleaser. I run everything from wheel weight castings to Buffalo bore. Most of my gong rounds are pistol bullets loaded in the straightwall. My levers include 22, 357 mag, 44 mag, 35 Rem, and 444. Gong time it is 30.06 or 444, I like a good reaction out of the steel, along with the ability to "blast all day" without a nose bleed.. I've had people shooting the gong until midnight holding a flashlight on it Hell, you can't even be in the local man club without one 
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Even 30-30 in a lightweight lever gun recoils hard. 45-70 is much worse. Much. But people pay good money to be abused. Some sort of fetish. I got nothing against 45-70, but nothing I need to shoot won't fall just as easily to 30-30. |
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45-70 can be loaded down, but it is quite a thumper. Even 45-70 as intended with a 500 grain bullet and 70 gr blackpowder, you are looking at around 1250 fps depending on your powder and barrel length, and all that. That's not a light load, that's stronger than most rifles out there, and is on par with 12 gauge magnums. The "carbine load" would be better, a 405gr with 55gr blackpowder for maybe 1000-1100 fps recoil is more on par with rifles such as 308. Some of the higher pressure smokeless loads I've seen people load are just nuts. Some guys are getting 405gr bullets to 1800, 1900, even 2000 fps. Recoil on a load like that is simply unreasonable in a 7 1/2 pound lever action carbine. Buy a real 458 win mag elephant rifle with plenty of heft if you have to do something like that. That's just my opinion. There's plenty of light smokeless powder loads too. You could do little mouse fart loads of pistol powder, but at that point just get a pistol caliber if that's what you want. 30-30 has never had obnoxious recoil in any rifle I have ever shot. In a 19-20" barrel you are generally looking at a 170gr at 1900-2000 fps with many loads. That's nothing, that's basically a 357 magnum. They aren't even close to a 45-70, which is about double the recoil energy. What 30-30 gets you is a more streamlined bullet compared to a pistol caliber cartridge. It's a good round, but it has some drawbacks. It's a bottleneck cartridge which means reloading them takes just as much work as anything else. Factory ammo is not particularly cheap. Pistol caliber cartridges, mainly 357 magnum have some benefits. Ammo is cheaper, and if you reload, brass prep is so much simpler. There is a drawback in that the accuracy potential is a little less than 30-30. You can't control your brass as much, and often pistol brass simply isn't up to the same standard. Despite that, 357 magnum rifles can still be surprisingly accurate. Bullets are less aerodynamic than 30-30. At the muzzle they may be very close, but at 200 yards the 30-30 is well ahead. If you are mainly looking at messing around inside of 100 yards, I would go with 357 magnum. Even at longer ranges they can still be fun. Making shots at 200 yards is not that hard. You can also consider some other cartridges such as 44 magnum, 45 colt, 454 casull, 41 magnum and more. An example would be if you had a handgun in 327 Federal, a rifle also in 327 Federal would make a lot of sense. If you don't have any of those, I think 357 magnum makes the most sense. I'm going to assume you have already written off rimfire. If not, 22 LR is something to really consider. There are some other rounds such as 360 Buckhammer that can be great. Unless you are in a state that requires that for deer or something, I don't see why someone would choose that just to shoot for fun. |
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Definitely a .357. I live in a rural area where game abounds, especially deer and hogs, and spend lots of time out and about outdoors. I have access to a plethora of firearms to keep with me, but 99% of the time I grab the 92 Rossi out of the laundry room gunrack as I'm walking out the door, I even whacked a 10 point buck with it the last day of season this year. It's just a very practical, useful little rig. If you just must have a rifle caliber, and since you reload, the 45-70 would be my choice. 50 years or so ago a fella named John Wooters wrote a fascinating article for Shooting Times magazine in which he had loads for his #1 Ruger. They ran the gamut from #8 shot loads, to single lead ball small game loads, multi-ball load all the way up to full-power 500 gr. hunting loads. |
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Originally Posted By Colt653: yep 357 is the way 38's are mild, like little kids can handle it, like 22LR full power 357 magnums out of a 16" barrel are a much higher velocity than a revolver https://i.imgur.com/eK93aQ2.jpg https://i.imgur.com/o65YpYx.jpg This guy's post is why I got 357mag levers. Easy and fun to shoot and does everything I need a levergun to do. |
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Originally Posted By StromBusa: long winded review: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=In_wiNfmg6Mdata included: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_-Q5ZvLliuYDecades ago I bought a 339A in 30-30. Then I wanted a big bore, and on whim, when I did not have much money, I came on a Marlin 444 that was unloved at a country gun shop and it follwed me home. I don't shoot it often. It is a great rifle. I should get some reloading dies for it and shoot it more often. An heir is going to be very fortunate to inherit that pair. I look at them and realize what I paid for them and just laugh. |
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Originally Posted By GrumpyinStL: Decades ago I bought a 339A in 30-30. Then I wanted a big bore, and on whim, when I did not have much money, I came on a Marlin 444 that was unloved at a country gun shop and it follwed me home. I don't shoot it often. It is a great rifle. I should get some reloading dies for it and shoot it more often. An heir is going to be very fortunate to inherit that pair. I look at them and realize what I paid for them and just laugh. Originally Posted By GrumpyinStL: Originally Posted By StromBusa: long winded review: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=In_wiNfmg6Mdata included: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_-Q5ZvLliuYDecades ago I bought a 339A in 30-30. Then I wanted a big bore, and on whim, when I did not have much money, I came on a Marlin 444 that was unloved at a country gun shop and it follwed me home. I don't shoot it often. It is a great rifle. I should get some reloading dies for it and shoot it more often. An heir is going to be very fortunate to inherit that pair. I look at them and realize what I paid for them and just laugh. Super easy to reload. And cheap pistol bullets available.
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New to lever actions… Need some guidance. (Page 1 of 2)
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