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Posted: 3/31/2025 7:40:57 PM EDT
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Took two business days from submission to approved. WTF. Anyways... This thing has the stock trigger. Someone told me to go the Geissele route for a good trigger (auto, not burst). Any other recommendations? Safety - is there any short-throw safeties out there? Rando spare parts - Good place to get them? |
Sometimes reasonable men must do unreasonable things.
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Originally Posted By macloud: I am using stock parts with the exception of the anti-rotation pins. This - if, for whatever reason, my gun is accused of causing a so-called negligent discharge, I want the gun to have 100% strictly stock pattern FCG parts. MHO, YMMV, etc. |
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I just got a spare FCG set that’s mil spec, to include a sear and selector. I really don’t see the advantage or need for having a lighter, cleaner breaking trigger that costs more than an entire FCG in a machine gun. I mean, it’s not a precision rifle and f/a bursts or mag dumps kinda negates the need for a fantastic trigger. Call me crazy, but the money will be better spent feeding it instead of accessorizing it. Just my opinion and it’s worth exactly what you paid for it. |
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Originally Posted By Dakota_Don: I just got a spare FCG set that’s mil spec, to include a sear and selector. I really don’t see the advantage or need for having a lighter, cleaner breaking trigger that costs more than an entire FCG in a machine gun. I mean, it’s not a precision rifle and f/a bursts or mag dumps kinda negates the need for a fantastic trigger. Call me crazy, but the money will be better spent feeding it instead of accessorizing it. Just my opinion and it’s worth exactly what you paid for it. While I personally agree with your viewpoint (and only use mil spec FCG parts), I do recognize that there are reasons for aftermarket M16 FCGs (that typically provide an "improved", non-mil spec trigger feel). One reason being shooters using such FCGs may be competitive shooters that participate in events that include one or more semi auto only stages where an "improved" trigger feel might provide an advantage. Another reason might be conspicuous consumption - if you are wealthy - why not spend money on expensive things? Another reason might be to attempt to eliminate as many pitfalls as possible, knowing that one is actually not very good, so any help that can be made, is made. And another might be corporate sponsorship - either direct, where one's sponsor is the manufacturer of the part in question, or indirect, where use of one part improves one's performance overall, thus enhancing the corporate image of a part or parts from another manufacturer(s), a so-called 'halo effect'. MHO, YMMV, etc. |
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I replaced all the lower parts with Colt M16 parts from Specialized Armament, the trigger with a Geissele, and then a whole new upper with a DD upper/LMT E-BCG. Runs like a top with or without a suppressor, your mileage may vary...   M16 vs Pineapples And for the cost of the Geissele trigger, I probably blow that much in ammo every time I go out (even more with the tariffs now since I like IMI M193  ).
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When faced with crisis, the man of character falls back on himself.
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I use Geissele SSF in mine. I also have an lmt 2-stage fullauto in a post sample and it’s much better than milspec, though not as good as the SSF and not much less costly than the SSF. Skip the KNS non-rotating hammer and trigger pins. I had these on a transferable Colt lower and they burnished the anodizing under the arms that extend between the two pins. I now just use the factory pins from Geissele. |
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Originally Posted By JoshNC: .... Skip the KNS non-rotating hammer and trigger pins. I had these on a transferable Colt lower and they burnished the anodizing under the arms that extend between the two pins. ... On my M16, I have the thin arm anti-rotation/anti-walk pins that stand off from the lower. Their only contact point is the pin ends. MHO, YMMV, etc. |
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Originally Posted By SecondAmend: On my M16, I have the thin arm anti-rotation/anti-walk pins that stand off from the lower. Their only contact point is the pin ends. MHO, YMMV, etc. That’s what I had too. But there was just enough lateral motion I think for both to burnish the anodizing circumferential to the pin holes and to a lesser degree along the course of the arms. I didn’t notice it until I removed them to install the SSF trigger and promptly sidelined them from my tranny M16s. If I had a non-Colt conversion or a Colt sp1 conversion, I’d have had no problem keeping the anti rotation pin setup. But these were factory Colt, so off the KNS pins went. |
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Originally Posted By JoshNC: That’s what I had too. But there was just enough lateral motion I think for both to burnish the anodizing circumferential to the pin holes and to a lesser degree along the course of the arms. I didn’t notice it until I removed them to install the SSF trigger and promptly sidelined them from my tranny M16s. If I had a non-Colt conversion or a Colt sp1 conversion, I’d have had no problem keeping the anti rotation pin setup. But these were factory Colt, so off the KNS pins went. Originally Posted By JoshNC: Originally Posted By SecondAmend: On my M16, I have the thin arm anti-rotation/anti-walk pins that stand off from the lower. Their only contact point is the pin ends. MHO, YMMV, etc. That’s what I had too. But there was just enough lateral motion I think for both to burnish the anodizing circumferential to the pin holes and to a lesser degree along the course of the arms. I didn’t notice it until I removed them to install the SSF trigger and promptly sidelined them from my tranny M16s. If I had a non-Colt conversion or a Colt sp1 conversion, I’d have had no problem keeping the anti rotation pin setup. But these were factory Colt, so off the KNS pins went. Weird - I've had these on my Colt M16A1 going on ten years w/o any issue. Go figure. ETA: However, the pointer end of the Selector has worn a short arc in the anodize at the "SAFE" position. |
| I have the Geissele SSF trigger and it's fantastic but not worth the 400 dollar price. I do see them for sale every so often. I think I'll have to try the Hiperfire select fire on the M-4 I build. I am using the Griffin 60/120 selector. It's nice and it definitely takes some getting used to. I'd really like to get my hands on the Geissele High Speed Selector he made for the Marine Corps. |
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Originally Posted By armygunsmith: I have the Geissele SSF trigger and it's fantastic but not worth the 400 dollar price. I do see them for sale every so often. I think I'll have to try the Hiperfire select fire on the M-4 I build. I am using the Griffin 60/120 selector. It's nice and it definitely takes some getting used to. I'd really like to get my hands on the Geissele High Speed Selector he made for the Marine Corps. I think it’s worth every bit of $400. It makes the M16 so controllable on fullauto. Take two similarly set up M16s, one with SSF, one with USGI triggers, shoot both at steel plates at 100 - 200 yds, the SSF will result in far more hits from bursts. |
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Originally Posted By JoshNC: I think it’s worth every bit of $400. It makes the M16 so controllable on fullauto. Take two similarly set up M16s, one with SSF, one with USGI triggers, shoot both at steel plates at 100 - 200 yds, the SSF will result in far more hits from bursts. Originally Posted By JoshNC: Originally Posted By armygunsmith: I have the Geissele SSF trigger and it's fantastic but not worth the 400 dollar price. I do see them for sale every so often. I think I'll have to try the Hiperfire select fire on the M-4 I build. I am using the Griffin 60/120 selector. It's nice and it definitely takes some getting used to. I'd really like to get my hands on the Geissele High Speed Selector he made for the Marine Corps. I think it’s worth every bit of $400. It makes the M16 so controllable on fullauto. Take two similarly set up M16s, one with SSF, one with USGI triggers, shoot both at steel plates at 100 - 200 yds, the SSF will result in far more hits from bursts. That may well be true for the top 1% of competitive shooters, but probably not true for the rest of us. A Stradivarius violin sounds just as bad as a Harmony violin when an ordinary violinist is playing. ETA: And I can assure from personal experience, buying a Fender Stratocaster guitar will not provide one the ability to play like Jimi Hendrix. MHO, YMMV, etc. ETA: A couple decades ago, before pro golf paid big prize money, it was common for pro golfers to give lessons on Mon - Wed to earn enough to make a living. Part of the lesson sessions would include a nine hole match on the last day. In the match, the student could play with the whole bag of clubs, while the pro was limited to only his nine iron for all shots including putts. The pro usually won. Pro tennis players did a similar thing where they would use a toy racket from Toys R Us or Children's Palace for the last day match with the student. |
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Originally Posted By SecondAmend: That may well be true for the top 1% of competitive shooters, but probably not true for the rest of us. A Stradivarius violin sounds just as bad as a Harmony violin when an ordinary violinist is playing. ETA: And I can assure from personal experience, buying a Fender Stratocaster guitar will not provide one the ability to play like Jimi Hendrix. MHO, YMMV, etc. ETA: A couple decades ago, before pro golf paid big prize money, it was common for pro golfers to give lessons on Mon - Wed to earn enough to make a living. Part of the lesson sessions would include a nine hole match on the last day. In the match, the student could play with the whole bag of clubs, while the pro was limited to only his nine iron for all shots including putts. The pro usually won. Pro tennis players did a similar thing where they would use a toy racket from Toys R Us or Children's Palace for the last day match with the student. I really notice a difference and I’m not a top competitive shooter. If one is just dumping mags at 25-50 yards, I would agree there’s no benefit. I personally love the SSF in my M16s and find it useful and enjoyable to dump a 2-4 round controlled burst into a torso sized steel plate at 100 - 200 yards. |
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Originally Posted By JoshNC: I really notice a difference and I'm not a top competitive shooter. If one is just dumping mags at 25-50 yards, I would agree there's no benefit. I personally love the SSF in my M16s and find it useful and enjoyable to dump a 2-4 round controlled burst into a torso sized steel plate at 100 - 200 yards. |
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Geissele SSF is a must have upgrade. It completely changes the controllability in fullauto. Singles, doubles, triples are very easy. It’s a game changer. Shoot two m16s side by side, one with SSF, one with milspec abs all other variables being equal and you’ll see the difference. I recommend against the anti-rotation pins. I used them for around 15 years on my primary Colt shooter. When I removed them to install an SSF, around ten years ago noticed the support arms had burnished the anodizing on my lower. I had the screws loosen a few times over the years too. And there have been reports of people having broken pins and not realizing they were broken because of the antirotation arms being intact. There are M16s with untold numbers of rounds on the lowers without any wear at the pin holes. The concerns over pin breakage were related to the straight blowback M16/9, which is outdated at this point with the cmmg radially delayed blowback. |
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Originally Posted By JoshNC: Geissele SSF is a must have upgrade. It completely changes the controllability in fullauto. Singles, doubles, triples are very easy. It’s a game changer. I completely agree. I'm certainly no competitive shooter, but I can easily shoot two, three or four shot bursts. There's no need for a burst selector when using a Geissele SSF because your finger is the selector. |
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Originally Posted By MHeemeyer: Took two business days from submission to approved. WTF. Anyways... This thing has the stock trigger. Someone told me to go the Geissele route for a good trigger (auto, not burst). Any other recommendations? Safety - is there any short-throw safeties out there? Rando spare parts - Good place to get them? Mine took 18 months |
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