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MCX Spear (Page 10 of 37)
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Originally Posted By lordhuck: Part of me was hoping that in the final version of the Spear that the rear T charging handle would be deleted as it's now superfluous with the side charger and is just another avenue for gas to escape into the users face while shooting suppressed. I’d rather the side charger is deleted than the t-handle. Flow through suppressors make a big difference regardless of your charging handle choice. |
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The Spear may be doomed. Why? It's the "M5A3" in Battlefield 2042, and the starting assault rifle for players.  Kind of a good rule of thumb that if a prototype rifle appears as the standard weapon for a BF or CoD game, it's never going to see wide (if any) adoption in the real world. The SCAR and XM8 are prime examples of this. |
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Originally Posted By Croak: The Spear may be doomed. Why? It's the "M5A3" in Battlefield 2042, and the starting assault rifle for players. https://progameguides.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/11/featured-battlefield-2042-m5a3-all-attachments.jpg Kind of a good rule of thumb that if a prototype rifle appears as the standard weapon for a BF or CoD game, it's never going to see wide (if any) adoption in the real world. The SCAR and XM8 are prime examples of this. Lol, glad I wasn’t the only one thinking this. Don’t forget the 416 in Bad Company. Also, they show the Spear as a Sig-flavored Colt 901… Which actually was a purpose designed 308/5.56 convertible rifle, exactly what SOCOM wanted for the Scar program, just released too late. Probably could’ve been converted to 9mm, too, now that I think about it. |
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Originally Posted By rb889: Lol, glad I wasn’t the only one thinking this. Don’t forget the 416 in Bad Company. Also, they show the Spear as a Sig-flavored Colt 901… Which actually was a purpose designed 308/5.56 convertible rifle, exactly what SOCOM wanted for the Scar program, just released too late. Probably could’ve been converted to 9mm, too, now that I think about it. Originally Posted By rb889: Originally Posted By Croak: The Spear may be doomed. Why? It's the "M5A3" in Battlefield 2042, and the starting assault rifle for players. https://progameguides.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/11/featured-battlefield-2042-m5a3-all-attachments.jpg Kind of a good rule of thumb that if a prototype rifle appears as the standard weapon for a BF or CoD game, it's never going to see wide (if any) adoption in the real world. The SCAR and XM8 are prime examples of this. Lol, glad I wasn’t the only one thinking this. Don’t forget the 416 in Bad Company. Also, they show the Spear as a Sig-flavored Colt 901… Which actually was a purpose designed 308/5.56 convertible rifle, exactly what SOCOM wanted for the Scar program, just released too late. Probably could’ve been converted to 9mm, too, now that I think about it. LOL. Don't forget, if your as old as I am, all the flight sim games in the 1990s that predicted the JSF winner would be the Boeing airplane. It seems video games are the curse of any weapons program. |
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Originally Posted By ThatGuy01: Anyone remember "Commanche?" Games 1 through 4? The newest attack helicopter of the future? Yeah.  It would be cool to see a commercial release like the ACR but I don't see widespread mil adoption. Yes! I do, those were really fun. Guess it's time to buy stock in True Velocity if they are publicly traded. |
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Originally Posted By call_me_ski: You made the fatal mistake of assuming they will buy any of the competitors at all. I do think the Army will field one of the NGSW submissions, and I think SIG will win that competition. But adoption rates will be SCAR-L or maybe SR25 level, not M16/M4 level, at least for quite some time. It's a solid system with a proven design (based both on Stoner's work, and the H&K 416 lineage) from a financially stable company that doesn't need huge DoD orders to stay in business. What that means is that they can afford to provide the Army and other branches small quantities over an extended period of time, because if the PTB decide that they want to phase out the 5.56 platforms, it'll be a process of years, if not decades. The fact that all it needs is a barrel change to run .308 and burn up those fairly massive ammo stockpiles is a nice hedge against production or field problems with their high-pressure 6.8 ammo. |
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Well the MCX raptor has been revealed https://youtu.be/p6iy1TSolGQ |
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Originally Posted By xxbrotherhood77: Well the MCX raptor has been revealed https://youtu.be/p6iy1TSolGQ 
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On Time. On Target.
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Raptor looks kick ass. I will bag one at the 1st opportunity. Question: Is the upper on the Raptor machined with with the strength to handle the new 6.8 hybrid pressure? So all I would need to to switch from a 308 Raptor to a 6.8 hybrid case Raptor would be a barrel change? Same question for the Sig Cross. Does anyone have any info on 6.8 subsonic rounds? Will they be viable? Or will 6.8 subsonic be very much like 5.56 subsonic in that, yeah it exists but it is not a great performer? |
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Originally Posted By lordhuck: Raptor looks kick ass. I will bag one at the 1st opportunity. Question: Is the upper on the Raptor machined with with the strength to handle the new 6.8 hybrid pressure? So all I would need to to switch from a 308 Raptor to a 6.8 hybrid case Raptor would be a barrel change? Same question for the Sig Cross. Does anyone have any info on 6.8 subsonic rounds? Will they be viable? Or will 6.8 subsonic be very much like 5.56 subsonic in that, yeah it exists but it is not a great performer? If it comes with a 6.8 barrel, it'll eat 6.8 hybrid, I reckon. Pressure is in the chamber/barrel, not the upper. Reciprocation forces should be the same for .308 or 6.8, with the gas system being integral to the barrel on the MCX-based platforms, and (hopefully) tuned from the factory account for differences in gas between .308, 6.5CM and 6.8 SIG (Fury?). As for 6.8 subsonic, I don't see that being a thing, or even something you'd want. 6.8 as specified by the NGS program is all about velocity. If you really need to go subsonic, I reckon the Raptor in 7.62x51 would be a far better choice (and with widely available projectiles in that caliber designed for subsonic loading). |
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Q is working to bring 8.6 Blk to the market which is to 308 that 300blk is to 5.56. They are using a very aggressive 1:3 rifling (I believe they mentioned testing down to 1:1 twist) which they claim allows for subsonic rounds to retain a lot of KE with impressive effects on target even with subsonic rounds. Should be interesting. With supersonic rounds they claim it can take any big game animal on the planet. That seems like it would mix nicely with the raptor. Q also hinted at a 308 frame honey Badger to go with the new round. |
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Originally Posted By Croak: If it comes with a 6.8 barrel, it'll eat 6.8 hybrid, I reckon. Pressure is in the chamber/barrel, not the upper. Reciprocation forces should be the same for .308 or 6.8, with the gas system being integral to the barrel on the MCX-based platforms, and (hopefully) tuned from the factory account for differences in gas between .308, 6.5CM and 6.8 SIG (Fury?). As for 6.8 subsonic, I don't see that being a thing, or even something you'd want. 6.8 as specified by the NGS program is all about velocity. If you really need to go subsonic, I reckon the Raptor in 7.62x51 would be a far better choice (and with widely available projectiles in that caliber designed for subsonic loading). Originally Posted By Croak: Originally Posted By lordhuck: Raptor looks kick ass. I will bag one at the 1st opportunity. Question: Is the upper on the Raptor machined with with the strength to handle the new 6.8 hybrid pressure? So all I would need to to switch from a 308 Raptor to a 6.8 hybrid case Raptor would be a barrel change? Same question for the Sig Cross. Does anyone have any info on 6.8 subsonic rounds? Will they be viable? Or will 6.8 subsonic be very much like 5.56 subsonic in that, yeah it exists but it is not a great performer? If it comes with a 6.8 barrel, it'll eat 6.8 hybrid, I reckon. Pressure is in the chamber/barrel, not the upper. Reciprocation forces should be the same for .308 or 6.8, with the gas system being integral to the barrel on the MCX-based platforms, and (hopefully) tuned from the factory account for differences in gas between .308, 6.5CM and 6.8 SIG (Fury?). As for 6.8 subsonic, I don't see that being a thing, or even something you'd want. 6.8 as specified by the NGS program is all about velocity. If you really need to go subsonic, I reckon the Raptor in 7.62x51 would be a far better choice (and with widely available projectiles in that caliber designed for subsonic loading). Pressures wont be an issue in SPEAR or CROSS. |
On Time. On Target.
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Originally Posted By call_me_ski: Q is working to bring 8.6 Blk to the market which is to 308 that 300blk is to 5.56. They are using a very aggressive 1:3 rifling (I believe they mentioned testing down to 1:1 twist) which they claim allows for subsonic rounds to retain a lot of KE with impressive effects on target even with subsonic rounds. Should be interesting. With supersonic rounds they claim it can take any big game animal on the planet. That seems like it would mix nicely with the raptor. Q also hinted at a 308 frame honey Badger to go with the new round. It's the reason we (and later Q) went to 1:5 twist in 300BO. 8.6 is interesting and im excited about the possibilities. A 300gr projectile @ ~1050fps out of a 12" barrel. Yes, please. |
On Time. On Target.
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Originally Posted By xxbrotherhood77: Well the MCX raptor has been revealed https://youtu.be/p6iy1TSolGQ |
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Originally Posted By JAG2955: And it's Keymod! My prayers have been answered! Originally Posted By JAG2955: Originally Posted By xxbrotherhood77: Well the MCX raptor has been revealed https://youtu.be/p6iy1TSolGQ That was for prototype. It comes with a proper and superior MLOK handguard, when released. 
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Originally Posted By Zerlak: That was for prototype. It comes with a proper and superior MLOK handguard, when released.  But I believe I recognize this as the blurred pic that someone posted a few pages back. JSJ said it may show up in my stocking, so let's fucking go, Santa! |
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Originally Posted By xxbrotherhood77: Well the MCX raptor has been revealed https://youtu.be/p6iy1TSolGQ Daaaaaaaammmmnnn okay there Sig. But yeah ever since I saw the HK51 I had this idea of a short barreled AR-10ish platform. Sort of like a modern HK51. I thought in 308 ballistics were a little stupid because it would essentially be 7.62x39 or 300BO. But since it's in this new caliber this is gonna be cool. 8.6 seems super cool too. Maybe we'll see that take some root too in the coming years. |
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Originally Posted By HALFNATTYGAINZ: Daaaaaaaammmmnnn okay there Sig. But yeah ever since I saw the HK51 I had this idea of a short barreled AR-10ish platform. Sort of like a modern HK51. I thought in 308 ballistics were a little stupid because it would essentially be 7.62x39 or 300BO. But since it's in this new caliber this is gonna be cool. 8.6 seems super cool too. Maybe we'll see that take some root too in the coming years. Originally Posted By HALFNATTYGAINZ: Originally Posted By xxbrotherhood77: Well the MCX raptor has been revealed https://youtu.be/p6iy1TSolGQ Daaaaaaaammmmnnn okay there Sig. But yeah ever since I saw the HK51 I had this idea of a short barreled AR-10ish platform. Sort of like a modern HK51. I thought in 308 ballistics were a little stupid because it would essentially be 7.62x39 or 300BO. But since it's in this new caliber this is gonna be cool. 8.6 seems super cool too. Maybe we'll see that take some root too in the coming years. I was impressed with the dude manhandling that sucker on F/A, it was remarkably flat. 308 wouldn’t be too impressive from that 8” barrel, but I’d like to see some numbers on their 6.8 hybrid… It’s already about the size of a MK18, maybe two more inches of barrel and a suppressor would be how I’d expect SOF to order them. |
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Originally Posted By esdunbar: Did he say Christmas 2021? And they just gave James permission to post the vid now? Am I reading too much into this or are we going to see them on shelves in the next couple weeks? I think you're reading it right. I need to clear up some funds..... |
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Originally Posted By xxbrotherhood77: Well the MCX raptor has been revealed https://youtu.be/p6iy1TSolGQ Pure Awesomeness! I already have a Rattler in 300BLK and 5.56, so this will fit right in with those little ones.  |
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Originally Posted By Croak: If it comes with a 6.8 barrel, it'll eat 6.8 hybrid, I reckon. Pressure is in the chamber/barrel, not the upper. Reciprocation forces should be the same for .308 or 6.8, with the gas system being integral to the barrel on the MCX-based platforms, and (hopefully) tuned from the factory account for differences in gas between .308, 6.5CM and 6.8 SIG (Fury?). As for 6.8 subsonic, I don't see that being a thing, or even something you'd want. 6.8 as specified by the NGS program is all about velocity. If you really need to go subsonic, I reckon the Raptor in 7.62x51 would be a far better choice (and with widely available projectiles in that caliber designed for subsonic loading). 6.8 subsonic would be something a lot of people would want...if it would perform well. It would turn a 6.8 gun into pretty much a do everything gun replacing your 300 Blk. If however 6.8 subsonic won't work, then I'm very interested in what a 300 Blk supersonic Hybrid cased round would do. 2700 FPS out of a supersonic Hybrid case 300 BLK? |
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Originally Posted By lordhuck: 6.8 subsonic would be something a lot of people would want...if it would perform well. It would turn a 6.8 gun into pretty much a do everything gun replacing your 300 Blk. If however 6.8 subsonic won't work, then I'm very interested in what a 300 Blk supersonic Hybrid cased round would do. 2700 FPS out of a supersonic Hybrid case 300 BLK? |
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Originally Posted By xxbrotherhood77: Well the MCX raptor has been revealed https://youtu.be/p6iy1TSolGQ Someone commented to that video that the name of this awesome looking little beast should be "Gladius", and I strongly agree! |
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Originally Posted By lordhuck: 6.8 subsonic would be something a lot of people would want...if it would perform well. It would turn a 6.8 gun into pretty much a do everything gun replacing your 300 Blk. If however 6.8 subsonic won't work, then I'm very interested in what a 300 Blk supersonic Hybrid cased round would do. 2700 FPS out of a supersonic Hybrid case 300 BLK? Originally Posted By lordhuck: Originally Posted By Croak: If it comes with a 6.8 barrel, it'll eat 6.8 hybrid, I reckon. Pressure is in the chamber/barrel, not the upper. Reciprocation forces should be the same for .308 or 6.8, with the gas system being integral to the barrel on the MCX-based platforms, and (hopefully) tuned from the factory account for differences in gas between .308, 6.5CM and 6.8 SIG (Fury?). As for 6.8 subsonic, I don't see that being a thing, or even something you'd want. 6.8 as specified by the NGS program is all about velocity. If you really need to go subsonic, I reckon the Raptor in 7.62x51 would be a far better choice (and with widely available projectiles in that caliber designed for subsonic loading). 6.8 subsonic would be something a lot of people would want...if it would perform well. It would turn a 6.8 gun into pretty much a do everything gun replacing your 300 Blk. If however 6.8 subsonic won't work, then I'm very interested in what a 300 Blk supersonic Hybrid cased round would do. 2700 FPS out of a supersonic Hybrid case 300 BLK? I agree on all points. I think it will be interesting to see what they do with the gas block settings. Maybe one position for 6.8 hybrid and one position for 6.8 subs? Likewise, I think a 3-postiion gas block for a .300BO hybrid case setup would be awesome. One position for standard supers, one position for hybrid supers, and one position for subs. |
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Originally Posted By Sniper3142: Someone commented to that video that the name of this awesome looking little beast should be "Gladius", and I strongly agree! Originally Posted By Sniper3142: Originally Posted By xxbrotherhood77: Well the MCX raptor has been revealed https://youtu.be/p6iy1TSolGQ Someone commented to that video that the name of this awesome looking little beast should be "Gladius", and I strongly agree! Cobalt has an upcoming rifle called the Gladius so it may be trademarked. |
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Production version, or at least something closer to production version of the raptor, shown here: Raptor https://www.instagram.com/reel/CVyPendFhmf/?utm_medium=copy_link |
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Originally Posted By SIASL: It's a vid so I screenshotted the best I could https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/384478/CDB69A2A-D2AB-4480-A4DC-C38F751FEC9F-2196629.jpg @JAG2955 ETA: Even when a shorty, it's still a big bitch. |
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Originally Posted By SIASL: What time stamp? 2:40ish Not sure if the embed at a certain time will work but yeah. https://youtu.be/p6iy1TSolGQ?t=160 Youtube [youtube]p6iy1TSolGQ?t=160[/youtube] |
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Originally Posted By JAG2955: The mag dump at 2:36? Looks like the bolt doesn't lock all the way back, but it stays open when he pulls the mag out? Yup it stops around 2:42.. Bolt is half way open like it had a bolt-over. Probably a live smashed round hanging half-way out of the extension. I've had it happen a few times running my 308 AR suppressed. |
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Originally Posted By JAG2955: The mag dump at 2:36? Looks like the bolt doesn't lock all the way back, but it stays open when he pulls the mag out? YouTube 156s ETA: Couldn’t remember how to do it, lol. Had to look it up. ETAx2: It did look to have a stoppage failure. A screenshot from the vid. Look closely at the mag - still have rounds left.  Not knocking SIG because shit happens, but they need to make sure that isn’t indicative or going to be a common issue. |
Give Respect & Take Responsibility
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Originally Posted By Zerlak: When he pulls the mag, you can actually see live rounds still stacked in it. Originally Posted By Zerlak: Originally Posted By JAG2955: The mag dump at 2:36? Looks like the bolt doesn't lock all the way back, but it stays open when he pulls the mag out? When he pulls the mag, you can actually see live rounds still stacked in it. Indeed. See the screen shot above. ETA: I wonder if they’re shooting reduced recoil 308? Just doesn’t seem to be a lot of recoil for a Battle Rifle caliber. ETAx2: Could explain the short stroke, maybe? |
Give Respect & Take Responsibility
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Originally Posted By SIASL: Indeed. See the screen shot above. ETA: I wonder if they’re shooting reduced recoil 308? Just doesn’t seem to be a lot of recoil for a Battle Rifle caliber. ETAx2: Could explain the short stroke, maybe? Originally Posted By SIASL: Originally Posted By Zerlak: Originally Posted By JAG2955: The mag dump at 2:36? Looks like the bolt doesn't lock all the way back, but it stays open when he pulls the mag out? When he pulls the mag, you can actually see live rounds still stacked in it. Indeed. See the screen shot above. ETA: I wonder if they’re shooting reduced recoil 308? Just doesn’t seem to be a lot of recoil for a Battle Rifle caliber. ETAx2: Could explain the short stroke, maybe? That or it was very dirty, could have had a bad round or simply it was still a prototype and didn't have everything worked out that the production version will have. |
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Originally Posted By Zerlak: That or it was very dirty, could have had a bad round or simply it was still a prototype and didn't have everything worked out that the production version will have. That's what I'm thinking. Even the handguard looks like it was for a larger rifle and it was simply cut, the side charging handle looks like it was still in the white. The rifle looked far away from a production sample. |
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Originally Posted By SIASL: Indeed. See the screen shot above. ETA: I wonder if they’re shooting reduced recoil 308? Just doesn’t seem to be a lot of recoil for a Battle Rifle caliber. ETAx2: Could explain the short stroke, maybe? Originally Posted By SIASL: Indeed. See the screen shot above. ETA: I wonder if they’re shooting reduced recoil 308? Just doesn’t seem to be a lot of recoil for a Battle Rifle caliber. ETAx2: Could explain the short stroke, maybe? Originally Posted By Zerlak: That or it was very dirty, could have had a bad round or simply it was still a prototype and didn't have everything worked out that the production version will have. Originally Posted By HALFNATTYGAINZ: That's what I'm thinking. Even the handguard looks like it was for a larger rifle and it was simply cut, the side charging handle looks like it was still in the white. The rifle looked far away from a production sample. Very true. |
Give Respect & Take Responsibility
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I doubt it's reduced recoil .308, or 6.8x51, or whatever. It looks like a controllable rifle, fired by guys who have fired full-caliber rifles before. Unlike the guys on the other page. Definitely a little embarrassing, but these things do happen. I won't make a generalized statement, unlike everyone in GD, whose MCX experience consists of the nutnfancy video where he omitted the stock adapter. Back to the "when" question. By the new year? |
MCX Spear (Page 10 of 37)
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