If I were to come across a stripped legitimate colt m16a1 lower from Vietnam era (fully automatic), I understand this is considered a machine gun, however, I am curious how one would go about purchasing this item legally? And how would you legally put the parts back into this lower to make it a complete functioning LEGAL firearm? I understand it is an nfa item and a tax stamp is needed for full auto weapons and full auto weapons are legal to own in my state, but they must be pre 1986 production… so the ultimate question is, how to obtain?… and is it legal to reassemble since it is still a fully in tact stripped lower?… this is speculation, I know these things are tens of thousands of dollars usually, but if one were to show up for a fair affordable price, how would you members go about this?

You can't

The only potential way is if it was already in the registry and got lost or ?? Some other circumstances caused the firearm to not get updated within the registry but if it was never in the registry then..
Not in the registry = not happening.

If the goal is to check the registry without getting your dog shot, arrested or the item confiscated then potentially an Attorney acting as liaison could handle it. ?
Entirely up to Agent D Bag or Agent Friendly when it crosses their desk.

Okay, with that being said, what if it was in the registry and were transferred by a class 3 ffl? Is it possible to acquire and reassemble into what it once was? - say a law enforcement branch of some sort decided they no longer needed these rifles and they were going to upgrade to something newer… if these rifles were sold to your local class 3 ffl holder and he/she knew majority of people in the area could not afford $30,000+ rifles and they decided to strip them and sell them as parts for tiny profit, is the stripped lower going to be “useable” legally and obtainable legally by an individual through ffl transfer/ nfa transfer? - I don’t know the rules as to a stripped lower that was once a true m16. Once again, I’m dreaming here, but if this occasion were to arise, I’ve always wondered a legitimate answer to this question. I want to be prepared and up to date on what knowledge of the process I will need to proceed on a once in a lifetime bargain. If the opportunity ever presents itself

So you have been told "You can't"
You have been told "Not in the registry = not happening"
So you decide to reword your inquiry in hopes for a different answer
Maybe one way would be for you to get your FFL/SOT 07/02 and you handle everything??

Attached File


I know this is not GD, but some of theses posts are glowing

The lower is the machinegun. So you transfer it on a form 4 to you. Then you assemble it however you want.


Going price for a stripped M16A1 lower on the registry is around $30k, probably a bit higher.

IIRC, the Group Industries stainless steel M16 lowers were only originally sold as stripped lowers.  At least I never saw one for sale that wasn't just the stripped lower.

MHO, YMMV, etc.

Pretty much this. If you don’t mind a non-colt you can pick one up a bit cheaper, I think frank has an Olympic RR listed for $26k.

It doesn’t matter if it’s stripped or not. If it’s a registered receiver (it has NFA paperwork prior to May of 1986) then it’s transferable and is valued in the $25-35k range. If you can’t find paperwork it’s worthless and is a felony if you are in possession of it. Pretty simple. It doesn’t matter if people in the area can’t afford it. The dealer can post online and sell to anyone across the country for top dollar. I purchased my MGs from out of state dealer.

If you want to own a MG you have a few options:
1) pay for a transferable MG (very expensive)
2) start an FFL/SOT and manufacture your own (not as expensive but a lot of work getting this started and really only for people who are serious about running it as a small side business with the perk of being able to own cheap machine guns)
3) not all MGs cost $30k. You can pick up a Mac for $10k, a M50 reising for $6k. Sten for $7-10k. All are fun guns with unique history.
4) get a binary trigger. Some can have high rate of fire and can give you a full auto like experience for a couple hundred dollars.

If an ffl holding family member presented a real m16a1 lower to you and said, if you come up with $2000 and it’s yours, would you get on arf and ask the same question I’m asking? -and also, would you stop researching how to make it happen after the first two guys on the forum said : “can’t” or “isn’t gunna happen”….? - give me a little insight as to how a stripped lower that is classified as a machine gun on paper isn’t considered a machine gun all of a sudden because it’s missing internals…. There’s no way I’m just going to bow out and say, well, two guys on the internet said I can’t do it so, must be the end of the road.

Sounds good, I appreciate the info. -like I said I had never heard of anyone running into this scenario before, so I was curious the options. Thanks

If he's not ready to transfer it to you on Form 4 then it's not legal nor worth $2k.

Right on, I appreciate it!

Anyone who owns a legal transferable MG...even a stripped lower...is going to have a stamp for it and be familiar with the transfer process.  You can transfer it directly you on a form 4 as long as you both live in the same state.  If different states it will have to go thru a dealer.

Not sure what you are thinking about stripped lower...once an m16 lower is a MG and on the registry it is always an MG, even if you take all the parts out.

Yeah I wasn’t sure if the “stripped” portion was going to present an issue. I understand civilian style ar rifle lower rules, I just was not positive on the machine gun rules. Wanted to clear the waters.

Except that Vollmer v Higgins actually set the case law that “once a MG always a MG” is null and void. ATF ignores the case law as though it doesn’t exist. And no one seems to have the guts to take atf to task on that, so we all constantly parrot the same “once a MG always a MG line”.

If you understand the "civilian style ar rifle lower rules", it is actually the same as a registered receiver machinegun. The aluminum receiver is the regulated part with a serial number. A regulated receiver machinegun is a firearm receiver that has been entered into the National Firearms Act registry as a machinegun to be legal in the United States. Conversion parts can be registered as a machinegun, but a registered receiver is a firearm receiver that has been registered as a machinegun.

The Federal government use such as the US Army they don't register their guns with the NFA registry. Government Agencies such as the FBI or local Police Departments do. Any entity beyond the armed forces would have paperwork for a legal machinegun. Any machinegun that can be owned by a private individual would have paperwork.

If someone offers a machinegun for sale but has no paperwork, possession of such a firearm could carry up to 10 years in Federal Prison. Ten years in prison is worth much more to me than $30,000.00 for something that I would consider to "toy". Property gets stolen from the Government or semi auto receivers get modified to full auto configuration. If an M16 gets stolen from the Government, the only traceable part would be the lower receiver. I hope this information is useful.

Scott

First off if someone comes to me and tried to sell me a M16 lower for$2k.. Walk away. A legal M16 in registry would go for 10x more.

Anycase the only legal way I can think of is if that said M16 lower is cut according to ATF regulations, torch cut 3 places as listed on their web site, and you reweld it back together with a blocker for the third hole or replace the rear end from a semi auto AR15, then that is the closest you can get that I can think of. Note that rewelding aluminum is hard.. Typically harder that welding steel.
I have seen someone post the merge from a semi auto M16 lower clone rear section to a M16 magwell to make their clone. It was impressive welding..