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Posted: 8/22/2026 3:21:13 PM EDT
[Last Edit: WildBoar][Edited]
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Leaning Photonis as they seem to do great with ambient lighting. Just going by videos. I will encounter well light back yards, bridges, other boats nav lights etc. I am positive me front facing nav lights will illuminate the heck of out things near in front of me with nvgs on as well. On land suburban use and at times at the cabin by the lake. Trying to keep it $2500 and under if possible. White Phospor and I had enough green shit from the Army and I HATED it. Is a used Photonis tubed 14 the way to go? Oh and I have a Team Wendy bump I use for parachuting. Will need a decent but not go to war grade mount. Its mainly for boat use and walking the property to see if bigfoot is trying to steal my mower. My only comparrisons I have are vids and the Photonis seems good for what I am looking for but video doesnt always replicate reality when if comes to optics. Sample vid  Photonis Intens 4G vs. L3 Gen 3 Filmless - High Light Comparison |
| Echos are good tubes but that money is very close to a New true 3rd Gen WP Elbit tube unit with warranty. |
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In business since 1992- Over 30 Years in business- Thank you for your business!
Quickest ways to contact us-
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Originally Posted By Lowdown3: Echos are good tubes but that money is very close to a New true 3rd Gen WP Elbit tube unit with warranty. How are they as far as use around building lights? Just dont want something super bright around them. Some seem to almost wash it out Are Photonis no longer made? |
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Originally Posted By WildBoar: How are they as far as use around building lights? Just dont want something super bright around them. Some seem to almost wash it out Are Photonis no longer made? Yes they are still made. The common thought is that around "mixed lighting" they do better than say an L3 tube. Being as we see sooooo many people doing stupid shit ("staring at IR lights", "watching car headlights", etc) with L3 tubes and getting nasty burns that way- incredibly higher than the incidence of that happened with Elbit tubes I'd say they are in general more susceptible to small burns. We sell easily 200 to 1 Elbit to L3 and still see more folks burning L3 tubes than Elbit. With ANY NV tube, common sense SOPs are needed when working around high lights, IR lights and lasers to avoid tube burns. |
www.jrhenterprises.com
In business since 1992- Over 30 Years in business- Thank you for your business!
Quickest ways to contact us-
912.375.1480
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In business since 1992- Over 30 Years in business- Thank you for your business!
Quickest ways to contact us-
912.375.1480
[email protected]
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Originally Posted By WildBoar: How are they as far as use around building lights? Just dont want something super bright around them. Some seem to almost wash it out Are Photonis no longer made? As a NODs newbie without a lot of experience, I cannot speak to the relative merits of different tubes, but since you mentioned building lights, you might want to check out the "Halo" spec on anything you consider buying. This page, though sort of old, has a little section on Halo that you might find illuminating (ha). https://www.nite-walker.com/post/2019/11/21/specs-for-dummies-101 |
Don't confuse where I live with where I'm from.
| In higher lighting you can use an adjustable iris or your day light filter cap on your objective lens to limit the amount of light that goes into your NOD in higher light environments, but you still can not be wreck less on what/how long you look at bright lights/LEDs. A lot of newer users think that turning down your gain will help but it does not help with the amount of light going through your NOD. Lowdown3 is correct as a lot of damage comes from people staring at white walls with IR light looking for pepper spots, looking at beacons, etc. IMHO since you are going from high lighting to little to no ambient light a Elbit or L3 tube will fit your requirements better than a Gen2 photonis tube. While they do better in higher lighting,they are not immune to highlight damage either and they do not perform as well in darker environments. |
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Originally Posted By WildBoar: Leaning Photonis as they seem to do great with ambient lighting. Just going by videos. I will encounter well light back yards, bridges, other boats nav lights etc. I am positive me front facing nav lights will illuminate the heck of out things near in front of me with nvgs on as well. On land suburban use and at times at the cabin by the lake. Trying to keep it $2500 and under if possible. White Phospor and I had enough green shit from the Army and I HATED it. Is a used Photonis tubed 14 the way to go? Oh and I have a Team Wendy bump I use for parachuting. Will need a decent but not go to war grade mount. Its mainly for boat use and walking the property to see if bigfoot is trying to steal my mower. My only comparrisons I have are vids and the Photonis seems good for what I am looking for but video doesnt always replicate reality when if comes to optics. Sample vid  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TQ2zZhiWddsThe Photonis Echo (and 4G) autogating works great (better than Elbit and L3) in high light environments and around light sources. On the other hand, Elbit and L3 will perform better in unaided (no supplemental use of IR light) low light environments due to the gain difference between the tubes. However, with a PVS-14 or any monocular, many monocular users lower the gain in order for the aided eye to better work with the unaided eye. So, starting with a lower gain isn't necessarily a terrible thing. It sounds like you'll be using illumination that won't be a concern whenever doing so, but ultimately if you want the best low light unaided performance then Gen 3 is the better choice. If you're interested, we currently have PVS-14s with Photonis ECHO WP 2000-2200 FOM in stock. Lifetime limited warranty. We also have TNVC Filmed SuperGain available in the Talon monocular housing and Elbit WP & L3 26LA (2400-2600 FOM) aviation grade available in PVS-14s, Talon, and RVM14. FWIW, we've sold a ton of L3 tubes and L3 goggles over the years, and all of the damage I've ever come across was the type that any tube would suffer from - having the device turned on when it shouldn't have been. Temporary artifacts caused from certain light exposures is normal and goes away during use. The best thing you can do to avoid damage is always manually turn off the device if you are not looking through it. Use a solid lens cap for an extra safety measure. I'm a big fan of the Phokus Hoplite Gen 2. It is a refocus device with a sacrificial lens with multiple apertures for different focus distances including a solid hole that works as solid lens cap. A bikini cover with solid cap also works well, butler creek flip cap, or the pinhole cap with some tape over the pinhole. - TNVC Will |
Managing Director of Commercial Sales & Inside Sales
Tactical Night Vision Corporation - TNVC, INC.
http://www.tnvc.com
[email protected]
(909) 796-7000 Ex. 610
Tactical Night Vision Corporation - TNVC, INC.
http://www.tnvc.com
[email protected]
(909) 796-7000 Ex. 610
|
If you are ok shopping used you can find gen 3 for within your budget and gen 4/2+ for well under. Sometimes you can get barely used stuff for a good price because it’s done nothing but sit in a closet for a couple years. The EE here and tacswap are where I look for stuff. |
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| Personally I like the blueish tint of the echo wp, pretty easy on the eyes. I have a gen 3 gp too that’s less fom than the echo but you can still see more in very low light than the echo, but the echo is clearer. On a dual mount they actually work decent together and doesn’t really make you sick but I was just messing around. I like to just use one and use the other mount for thermal. Since I got mine about 6 years ago the price of high quality wp, filmless etc came way down, also these echo units now are better. Kind of envious, but I’m more into thermal now. When you use both you realize how much you can miss with NV. But I’d say the best gen 3 you can afford, or the best echo and be done with it. |
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Originally Posted By TNVC_Will: The Photonis Echo (and 4G) autogating works great (better than Elbit and L3) in high light environments and around light sources. On the other hand, Elbit and L3 will perform better in unaided (no supplemental use of IR light) low light environments due to the gain difference between the tubes. However, with a PVS-14 or any monocular, many monocular users lower the gain in order for the aided eye to better work with the unaided eye. So, starting with a lower gain isn't necessarily a terrible thing. It sounds like you'll be using illumination that won't be a concern whenever doing so, but ultimately if you want the best low light unaided performance then Gen 3 is the better choice. If you're interested, we currently have PVS-14s with Photonis ECHO WP 2000-2200 FOM in stock. Lifetime limited warranty. We also have TNVC Filmed SuperGain available in the Talon monocular housing and Elbit WP & L3 26LA (2400-2600 FOM) aviation grade available in PVS-14s, Talon, and RVM14. FWIW, we've sold a ton of L3 tubes and L3 goggles over the years, and all of the damage I've ever come across was the type that any tube would suffer from - having the device turned on when it shouldn't have been. Temporary artifacts caused from certain light exposures is normal and goes away during use. The best thing you can do to avoid damage is always manually turn off the device if you are not looking through it. Use a solid lens cap for an extra safety measure. I'm a big fan of the Phokus Hoplite Gen 2. It is a refocus device with a sacrificial lens with multiple apertures for different focus distances including a solid hole that works as solid lens cap. A bikini cover with solid cap also works well, butler creek flip cap, or the pinhole cap with some tape over the pinhole. - TNVC Will Fwiw, my supergain tubes will get ghost images from headborne use coyote hunting on full moon nights like this week. It indeed goes away with use. OP, consider Alamo's Urban Combat Filter or the Cold Harbor or other iris devices. I have both and the UCF will cut light bloom insanely well, but only drops scene brightness maybe 5% or so. It will nearly disable your ability to use eCOTI though. I personally use a CH iris. |
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Originally Posted By JohnDough: Fwiw, my supergain tubes will get ghost images from headborne use coyote hunting on full moon nights like this week. It indeed goes away with use. OP, consider Alamo's Urban Combat Filter or the Cold Harbor or other iris devices. I have both and the UCF will cut light bloom insanely well, but only drops scene brightness maybe 5% or so. It will nearly disable your ability to use eCOTI though. I personally use a CH iris. Not a huge fan of Iris devices myself but wondering how you like the Cold Harbor one? |
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In business since 1992- Over 30 Years in business- Thank you for your business!
Quickest ways to contact us-
912.375.1480
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In business since 1992- Over 30 Years in business- Thank you for your business!
Quickest ways to contact us-
912.375.1480
[email protected]
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Originally Posted By Lowdown3: Not a huge fan of Iris devices myself but wondering how you like the Cold Harbor one? I'm confident the CHS IRIS is nowhere near worth the money (226.00) over the ones on Amazon made of aluminum and designed for cameras . I use a 3 tier system, IRIS, clear neutral density filter and a clip on lens cover all off of Amazon for @ 23.00. Although prices have gone up slightly all the parts can still be easily be found: 26mm 30m-37m IRIS @ 25.00, 37mm neutral density filter @ 6.00 and the clip on lens cover @ 6.00 |
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Originally Posted By MunnyShot: I'm confident the CHS IRIS is nowhere near worth the money (226.00) over the ones on Amazon made of aluminum and designed for cameras . I use a 3 tier system, IRIS, clear neutral density filter and a clip on lens cover all off of Amazon for @ 23.00. Although prices have gone up slightly all the parts can still be easily be found: 26mm 30m-37m IRIS @ 25.00, 37mm neutral density filter @ 6.00 and the clip on lens cover @ 6.00 No, definitely not. Its probably not worth the $75 they sell them for, either, but I still got it so as not to have to cobble it together. I found matching thread pitches to be annoying via Amazon. I especially appreciate the milspec AR coated lens. You can get UTM rated poly if youre using it for FoF. |
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Originally Posted By Caeser2001: Yes Photonis autogating is far superior to US Gen3 in highlight environments. Thats what I keep hearing. If I am in a super dark area i will just use the IR. Not worried about tactical aspect. Still leaning Photonis but some of the Elbits talked about here look nice, but if my port an starboard nav lights in the bow are going to wash out my image they are useles |
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Originally Posted By WildBoar: Thats what I keep hearing. If I am in a super dark area i will just use the IR. Not worried about tactical aspect. Still leaning Photonis but some of the Elbits talked about here look nice, but if my port an starboard nav lights in the bow are going to wash out my image they are useles If you decide to get one from us, we have a 14 day return, so peace of mind if you're not happy with it. No restocking fee unless stuff is missing or damaged. FYI, I've yet to personally deal with anyone who wasn't happy with the tube(s) once they received it. - TNVC Will |
Managing Director of Commercial Sales & Inside Sales
Tactical Night Vision Corporation - TNVC, INC.
http://www.tnvc.com
[email protected]
(909) 796-7000 Ex. 610
Tactical Night Vision Corporation - TNVC, INC.
http://www.tnvc.com
[email protected]
(909) 796-7000 Ex. 610
Suburbia one pic is my Photonis Echo, the other my L3 filmless. Both have SNR of 32. Pictures taken back to back.   Rural video with just my phone through my Photonis. https://imgur.com/a/Cg3937z Suburbia again Photonis and a green filmed L3 with a SNR of 24. Pics taken back to back but on a different night but years apart from the above photos.   |
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Originally Posted By Caeser2001: Suburbia one pic is my Photonis Echo, the other my L3 filmless. Both have SNR of 32. Pictures taken back to back. https://i.imgur.com/hI4HhFT_d.webp?maxwidth=1520&fidelity=grand https://i.imgur.com/jPrKrMV_d.webp?maxwidth=1520&fidelity=grand Rural video with just my phone through my Photonis. https://imgur.com/a/Cg3937z Suburbia again Photonis and a green filmed L3 with a SNR of 24. Pics taken back to back but on a different night but years apart from the above photos. https://i.imgur.com/zKmcdvt_d.webp?maxwidth=1520&fidelity=grand https://i.imgur.com/wnoWy5S_d.webp?maxwidth=1520&fidelity=grand That is much appreciated. It looks like the Photonis will be the winner for my needs. I cant risk being washed out in halos and what not. Where I will be using mine will have considerably less light, but there will be some area now and then that might be like hat Also since I am new to this. Is that Photonis Echo different from a Photonis 4G or are they all names for the same stuff. I see many ads just saying Photonis , no Echo or 4G |
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Originally Posted By WildBoar: That is much appreciated. It looks like the Photonis will be the winner for my needs. I cant risk being washed out in halos and what not. Where I will be using mine will have considerably less light, but there will be some area now and then that might be like hat Also since I am new to this. Is that Photonis Echo different from a Photonis 4G or are they all names for the same stuff. I see many ads just saying Photonis , no Echo or 4G Originally Posted By WildBoar: Originally Posted By Caeser2001: Suburbia one pic is my Photonis Echo, the other my L3 filmless. Both have SNR of 32. Pictures taken back to back. https://i.imgur.com/hI4HhFT_d.webp?maxwidth=1520&fidelity=grand https://i.imgur.com/jPrKrMV_d.webp?maxwidth=1520&fidelity=grand Rural video with just my phone through my Photonis. https://imgur.com/a/Cg3937z Suburbia again Photonis and a green filmed L3 with a SNR of 24. Pics taken back to back but on a different night but years apart from the above photos. https://i.imgur.com/zKmcdvt_d.webp?maxwidth=1520&fidelity=grand https://i.imgur.com/wnoWy5S_d.webp?maxwidth=1520&fidelity=grand That is much appreciated. It looks like the Photonis will be the winner for my needs. I cant risk being washed out in halos and what not. Where I will be using mine will have considerably less light, but there will be some area now and then that might be like hat Also since I am new to this. Is that Photonis Echo different from a Photonis 4G or are they all names for the same stuff. I see many ads just saying Photonis , no Echo or 4G There will still be halos but there won’t be black streaks and ghosting like gen 3 when the MCP gets over saturated. Both of my L3s do that, the filmed moreso than the filmless. Photonis Echos are supposed to be milspec 4G fallout tubes. Technology is all the same. There are also older types, XR4. I’m not sure where their commercial falls in line but would say stay echo at a minimum, and if budget and availability allows, a high gain echo. |
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Originally Posted By WildBoar: That is much appreciated. It looks like the Photonis will be the winner for my needs. I cant risk being washed out in halos and what not. Where I will be using mine will have considerably less light, but there will be some area now and then that might be like hat Also since I am new to this. Is that Photonis Echo different from a Photonis 4G or are they all names for the same stuff. I see many ads just saying Photonis , no Echo or 4G The Echo's autogating will maintain a higher resolution in high light compared to Elbit/L3 but the halo is the halo. If you're around a lot of bright light sources then I'd definitely consider an IR band pass filter such as the Urban Combat Filter mentioned above. They are two different tube grades. 4G is their mil-spec tube and Echo is commercial. There are different Echo P/Ns with performance differences, so I would confirm the actual FOM before purchasing. For example, all of our Echos are 2000-2200 FOM, but you will also find them out there below 2000 FOM. As for the naming, it was an issue some years back with many sources intermixing the names together such as Echo 4G or 4G Echo, but Photonis marketing has had the distinct separation for a while now so most folks should now be using the correct terminology. |
Managing Director of Commercial Sales & Inside Sales
Tactical Night Vision Corporation - TNVC, INC.
http://www.tnvc.com
[email protected]
(909) 796-7000 Ex. 610
Tactical Night Vision Corporation - TNVC, INC.
http://www.tnvc.com
[email protected]
(909) 796-7000 Ex. 610
|
Originally Posted By TNVC_Will: The Echo's autogating will maintain a higher resolution in high light compared to Elbit/L3 but the halo is the halo. If you're around a lot of bright light sources then I'd definitely consider an IR band pass filter such as the Urban Combat Filter mentioned above. They are two different tube grades. 4G is their mil-spec tube and Echo is commercial. There are different Echo P/Ns with performance differences, so I would confirm the actual FOM before purchasing. For example, all of our Echos are 2000-2200 FOM, but you will also find them out there below 2000 FOM. As for the naming, it was an issue some years back with many sources intermixing the names together such as Echo 4G or 4G Echo, but Photonis marketing has had the distinct separation for a while now so most folks should now be using the correct terminology. Can you elaborate a little on what adding a filter like that will do to what you see looking through the PVS-14? Also, isn't the Halo spec on the fact sheet for every PVS-14? So, if @Wildboar is in an area with lots of exterior lamps, won't he want the lowest possible halo number for the smallest possible halos? Something as far less than 1 as he can find? |
Don't confuse where I live with where I'm from.
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Originally Posted By Emoto: Can you elaborate a little on what adding a filter like that will do to what you see looking through the PVS-14? Also, isn't the Halo spec on the fact sheet for every PVS-14? So, if @Wildboar is in an area with lots of exterior lamps, won't he want the lowest possible halo number for the smallest possible halos? Something as far less than 1 as he can find? Yes, a lower halo is desirable if you're around a lot of lights especially in low light. I don't know the nm on the filter above but I'm assuming it's 720nm. I've used the Green L ones on Amazon (720nm / 30mm for mil-spec pvs-14 objectives) and it makes a very noticeable difference. Here's a video I found that demonstrates it fairly well https://www.reddit.com/r/NightVision/comments/1c9jwdt/720nm_filter/ |
Managing Director of Commercial Sales & Inside Sales
Tactical Night Vision Corporation - TNVC, INC.
http://www.tnvc.com
[email protected]
(909) 796-7000 Ex. 610
Tactical Night Vision Corporation - TNVC, INC.
http://www.tnvc.com
[email protected]
(909) 796-7000 Ex. 610
|
Originally Posted By TNVC_Will: Yes, a lower halo is desirable if you're around a lot of lights especially in low light. I don't know the nm on the filter above but I'm assuming it's 720nm. I've used the Green L ones on Amazon (720nm / 30mm for mil-spec pvs-14 objectives) and it makes a very noticeable difference. Here's a video I found that demonstrates it fairly well https://www.reddit.com/r/NightVision/comments/1c9jwdt/720nm_filter/ Thanks for the info. Not 100% sure what I was supposed to see in the video. Did the filter slightly reduce the halos? |
Don't confuse where I live with where I'm from.
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Originally Posted By Emoto: Thanks for the info. Not 100% sure what I was supposed to see in the video. Did the filter slightly reduce the halos? Try watching on a larger screen. It knocks down the glare/bloom/light pollution around the light sources. |
Managing Director of Commercial Sales & Inside Sales
Tactical Night Vision Corporation - TNVC, INC.
http://www.tnvc.com
[email protected]
(909) 796-7000 Ex. 610
Tactical Night Vision Corporation - TNVC, INC.
http://www.tnvc.com
[email protected]
(909) 796-7000 Ex. 610
|
Originally Posted By TNVC_Will: Try watching on a larger screen. It knocks down the glare/bloom/light pollution around the light sources. The Urban Combat Filter I got seemed a lot better. I have a coyote call. The remote lights up red, the buttons. Without the filter if I look at it its like staring at a nuke going off. With the filter, I wouldn't recommend looking at it but its also no big deal and I can see individual buttons. The light transmission also seems much less attenuation than your video...but...watching a video vs how your eyes and brain perceive light can be different and it may well be the same, Im just going off of perception. If I lived urban though, I'd likely run these filters on everything. As it is I dont because my TAD is near useless with it in place. |
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