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Posted: 8/24/2026 9:04:08 AM EDT
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I bought a old PPC revolver. Read here It is built for 38spl wad cutter loads. I do not have any 38spl brass, but I do have tons of 357 mag brass. So before I go out and buy 38spl brass, I thought I would see if I can use the 357 brass I already have. Would there be any downsides or detrimental effects to load the 357 mag brass to 38spl pressures and velocity? Would the extra case capacity cause any ill effects on accuracy or powder burn? |
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Interesting question... I went back in my records to compare 38&357 performance across 6 S&W (3-38spl, 3-357mag 2"~ 6") with oem 38 spl loads (5 different 110,125,147,158gr all+P) against my various reloads over the years. I didn't have very many direct comparisons as most of my 357 cases have been loaded to 357 velocities. One thing I did notice is that the same oem 38spl loads fired in 357 mag gun with the same barrel length as a 38spl gun, had a slower fps (probably due to the increased chamber volume). When comparing to my reload data, there were a few comparable loads with similar bullet/fps loaded in 357 cases. IMO if you use manual data you may have to bump the charge up a little to compensate for the increased case/chamber volume. You will want to baseline some similar oem rounds thru that gun first, then your chrono will come in handy. I think the 38spl pressure would still seal - IDK but don't think the 357 brass is that much thicker - just keep an eye out for powder marks around the mouths. Using 357 cases helps avoid the carbon ring if you shoot a lot of 38... that's so hard to clean out of the chamber. |
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Don’t over-think it. You want to shoot .38 Spl. wadcutter equivalent loads from .357 Mag brass. So make everything essentially the same. I load HBWC to 1.285” overall length in either cartridge. That’s seated flush in .357 brass or 1/8” past flush in .38 brass. What you end up with is the same internal case volume. Unsurprisingly, the bullets shoot to the same velocity from either case when loaded like this. |
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Personally I have used 2.7 gr of Bullseye in 38 Special Brass and 3.0 of Bullseye in 357 brass. I can not tell the difference. The loads just flat out shoot. It's like cheating. Use the brass you have and most importantly HAVE FUN! |
jme and I am a NRA Endowment Member
Don't be too timid and squeamish about your actions. All life is an experiment. The more experiments you make the better.
R W Emerson
Don't be too timid and squeamish about your actions. All life is an experiment. The more experiments you make the better.
R W Emerson
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Try both the .38 case load and 0.2 grains more powder, the generally recommended change for using .357 brass with a 38 Special load. Ie 2.8 grains of a Bullseye load in a .38 case, use 3.0 grains in a magnum case. I play around with stuff and used to try to get really light powder loads. Ultimately I found them less accurate than the normal target level loads. Powder position sensitivity was also something I looked for. Powder back against the primer was always faster than powder slipped forward against the bullet. The degree of that change had powder volume and case volume as factors. The closer to filling the case the less of an issue that was. I never truly mastered any Bullseye style shooting or reached perfection with my loads. Likely I was the weak link. |
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Originally Posted By Jeeps-And-Guns: I bought a old PPC revolver. Read here It is built for 38spl wad cutter loads. I do not have any 38spl brass, but I do have tons of 357 mag brass. So before I go out and buy 38spl brass, I thought I would see if I can use the 357 brass I already have. Would there be any downsides or detrimental effects to load the 357 mag brass to 38spl pressures and velocity? Would the extra case capacity cause any ill effects on accuracy or powder burn? Normal 148 gr swaged wadcutter 38 Special load is 2.7 grs Bullseye. This is the classic target load. In a 357 case I use 3.0 grs Bullseye. Bullseye is not position sensitive and works very well. Just be aware of double or triple charges, as there is a lot of unused space in the case. 2400 is another non position sensitive powder I like to use in rifle cast bullet loads. Yesterday I was shooting 45-70 (Springfield Trapdoor) with home cast 340 gr PC bullets with 22.0 grs 2400. Recoils was soft and the steel really jumped when hit. |
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I only use 357 brass in my revolver. When using 38 Special brass in a 357 cylinder, you will develop a carbon ring inside the cylinder just ahead of the case mouth. Over time, you will also begin to erode the chamber walls just ahead of the case mouth. Once I spotted that, I completely stopped using 38 Special brass. My experience is the same loads that work in 38 Special also work in 357 Magnum, it's just a longer case/longer OAL. As always, do a load work-up. Be safe. |
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I’m not going to pile on with more details. But you can see from several replies that with Bullseye powder you have to work hard to go wrong. Also note that a couple of people have mentioned bumping the .38 Special wadcutter load up by .2 or .3 grains in .357 cases. The larger volume of the 357 case “soaks up” some of the pressure those light wadcutter loads generate, so you need a bit more oomph in them. Also pay attention to your cylinder’s chambers. At least one person mentioned only firing 357 brass in their 357 pistols. Depending on the load, some pistols may experience a buildup of gunk between the end of a .38 case and the end of the .357 chamber. This is annoying at best, and a royal PITA otherwise. While there are tools for getting rid of this buildup, it’s always better to not have it happen in the first place. So before you get started with new loads, make sure that your chambers are clean all the way, because that gunky buildup can squish the crimp enough to cause “interesting” results. |
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Originally Posted By Jeeps-And-Guns: It is not a 38 special gun. The S&W model 19 is a 357 mag gun. Originally Posted By Jeeps-And-Guns: Originally Posted By Mindless: Will .357 cases chamber in your .38 Spl cylinder? It is not a 38 special gun. The S&W model 19 is a 357 mag gun. I know, I have a model 19 .38/.357. What I was getting at is the few PPC guns that I've seen are built on Model 10 .38 special pistols. |
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Originally Posted By GHPorter: I’m not going to pile on with more details. But you can see from several replies that with Bullseye powder you have to work hard to go wrong. Also note that a couple of people have mentioned bumping the .38 Special wadcutter load up by .2 or .3 grains in .357 cases. The larger volume of the 357 case “soaks up” some of the pressure those light wadcutter loads generate, so you need a bit more oomph in them. Also pay attention to your cylinder’s chambers. At least one person mentioned only firing 357 brass in their 357 pistols. Depending on the load, some pistols may experience a buildup of gunk between the end of a .38 case and the end of the .357 chamber. This is annoying at best, and a royal PITA otherwise. While there are tools for getting rid of this buildup, it’s always better to not have it happen in the first place. So before you get started with new loads, make sure that your chambers are clean all the way, because that gunky buildup can squish the crimp enough to cause “interesting” results. Yea the carbon ring and possible erosion of the cylinder from shooting a constant diet of shorter 38spl is another reason I want to use 357 mag brass instead of 38spl. (with the main being I do not have any 38 brass) I do not have any bullseye, so I may pick up a pound to try out. I have never shot any of it, but it seems to come up in this thread several times. |
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You will be able to tune your 148 HBWC to either the 357 brass or the 38 Special brass. You can get as picky as you care to as long as you can shoot the difference. I wouldn't be surprised if that rig holds 2" at 50 yards. Not that you asked, but getting some good quality 38 brass shouldn't be difficult if you want some. |
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Originally Posted By GHPorter: I'm not going to pile on with more details. But you can see from several replies that with Bullseye powder you have to work hard to go wrong. Also note that a couple of people have mentioned bumping the .38 Special wadcutter load up by .2 or .3 grains in .357 cases. The larger volume of the 357 case "soaks up" some of the pressure those light wadcutter loads generate, so you need a bit more oomph in them. Also pay attention to your cylinder's chambers. At least one person mentioned only firing 357 brass in their 357 pistols. Depending on the load, some pistols may experience a buildup of gunk between the end of a .38 case and the end of the .357 chamber. This is annoying at best, and a royal PITA otherwise. While there are tools for getting rid of this buildup, it's always better to not have it happen in the first place. So before you get started with new loads, make sure that your chambers are clean all the way, because that gunky buildup can squish the crimp enough to cause "interesting" results. |
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Originally Posted By Snakeshirt: Bullseye and 2400 are very position sensitive in a .45 Colt. I think with Bullseye, it’s the fact that there’s just a pinch of powder in a 55-gallon drum of a case. On the other hand, 2400 seems to like higher density loadings. It’s great in .30 Carbine, but look at how much volume that case has compared to .45 Colt. I had problems with inconsistent velocities with my first .45 Colt loads with Unique, which seemed to be related to position…but not definitively. I think I had just used more conservative loads that weren’t particularly suited for the 230 grain bullets I was using. |
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Originally Posted By dryflash3: 2400 is another non position sensitive powder I like to use in rifle cast bullet loads. . 2400 can be position sensitive in bottleneck rifle cases. You will get some really bad ES in speeds. If you use a filler of choice it really brings the ES down. When you run thousands of rnds over a chrono you will see it. But for most people it won't matter at all because they don't or can't shoot past 50 yds. Start shooting out past 200yds with lead and you will see how bad 2400 can be. |
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Originally Posted By tommee-boy-72: 2400 can be position sensitive in bottleneck rifle cases. You will get some really bad ES in speeds. If you use a filler of choice it really brings the ES down. When you run thousands of rnds over a chrono you will see it. But for most people it won't matter at all because they don't or can't shoot past 50 yds. Start shooting out past 200yds with lead and you will see how bad 2400 can be. |
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Originally Posted By Jeeps-And-Guns: Yea the carbon ring and possible erosion of the cylinder from shooting a constant diet of shorter 38spl is another reason I want to use 357 mag brass instead of 38spl. (with the main being I do not have any 38 brass) I do not have any bullseye, so I may pick up a pound to try out. I have never shot any of it, but it seems to come up in this thread several times. Originally Posted By Jeeps-And-Guns: Originally Posted By GHPorter: I'm not going to pile on with more details. But you can see from several replies that with Bullseye powder you have to work hard to go wrong. Also note that a couple of people have mentioned bumping the .38 Special wadcutter load up by .2 or .3 grains in .357 cases. The larger volume of the 357 case "soaks up" some of the pressure those light wadcutter loads generate, so you need a bit more oomph in them. Also pay attention to your cylinder's chambers. At least one person mentioned only firing 357 brass in their 357 pistols. Depending on the load, some pistols may experience a buildup of gunk between the end of a .38 case and the end of the .357 chamber. This is annoying at best, and a royal PITA otherwise. While there are tools for getting rid of this buildup, it's always better to not have it happen in the first place. So before you get started with new loads, make sure that your chambers are clean all the way, because that gunky buildup can squish the crimp enough to cause "interesting" results. Yea the carbon ring and possible erosion of the cylinder from shooting a constant diet of shorter 38spl is another reason I want to use 357 mag brass instead of 38spl. (with the main being I do not have any 38 brass) I do not have any bullseye, so I may pick up a pound to try out. I have never shot any of it, but it seems to come up in this thread several times. |
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39 special brass is super cheap. why not just buy it. I shoot 2.7 grains of bullseye over a 148 grain hbwc from hornady. work super great. just buy the right brass. also it will be cheaper on the non-mag primers. I bought mine form capital cartridge https://capitalcartridge.com/pistol-brass/38-special-brass/ https://cdvs.us/product/38-special-p-nickel-plated-primed-brass-500-count/ https://cdvs.us/product/38-special-primed-pull-down-brass-with-band-255-pack/ super easy to pick up. I bought 5,000 primed when i got my k-38 masterpiece. |
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Originally Posted By handym3000: 39 special brass is super cheap. why not just buy it. I shoot 2.7 grains of bullseye over a 148 grain hbwc from hornady. work super great. just buy the right brass. also it will be cheaper on the non-mag primers. I bought mine form capital cartridge https://capitalcartridge.com/pistol-brass/38-special-brass/ https://cdvs.us/product/38-special-p-nickel-plated-primed-brass-500-count/ https://cdvs.us/product/38-special-primed-pull-down-brass-with-band-255-pack/ super easy to pick up. I bought 5,000 primed when i got my k-38 masterpiece. Couple questions. Won't the brass basically last forever with light loads? Wouldn't you use non magnum primers if you were loading a 38spl equivalent load? |
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Originally Posted By Jeeps-And-Guns: Yea the carbon ring and possible erosion of the cylinder from shooting a constant diet of shorter 38spl is another reason I want to use 357 mag brass instead of 38spl. Approaching this logically, how would shorter brass cause erosion? If the cylinder wall can hold up to a given load in .357 brass, why would shortening the brass by 1/8” suddenly cause the cylinder to crumble? There have been a number of good suggestions made here for target loads on magnum brass. I’d give one of those a try. And while Bullseye is the classic powder, HP38/Win231 is right behind it, works well, and is still easy to find. FWIW, I load a Speer HBWC with 3.8 gr. of HP38 in .357 brass, seated flush with the end of the case. This produces 659 fps. in my 4” S&W 581 or 725 fps in the 4-5/8” Blackhawk. It shoots soft and shows very good accuracy. |
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Originally Posted By GarrettJ: Approaching this logically, how would shorter brass cause erosion? If the cylinder wall can hold up to a given load in .357 brass, why would shortening the brass by 1/8" suddenly cause the cylinder to crumble? There have been a number of good suggestions made here for target loads on magnum brass. I'd give one of those a try. And while Bullseye is the classic powder, HP38/Win231 is right behind it, works well, and is still easy to find. |
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Originally Posted By LipschitzWrath: For the same reason the throat of your rifle erodes after repeated use. It was implied that using the shorter brass will cause erosion. It doesn’t. Just like shortening the neck of your rifle brass won’t suddenly cause erosion to start or get worse. Not to mention, revolver cylinder erosion is pretty rare. Temperatures, pressures, and velocities are all lower than in the rifles that are known for throat erosion. |
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Originally Posted By GarrettJ: It was implied that using the shorter brass will cause erosion. It doesn't. Just like shortening the neck of your rifle brass won't suddenly cause erosion to start or get worse. Not to mention, revolver cylinder erosion is pretty rare. Temperatures, pressures, and velocities are all lower than in the rifles that are known for throat erosion. However, what can't be debated and is well documented is that repeatedly using 38 special in a 357 cylinder will form a carbon ring that can get bad enough that 357 will no longer chamber until you clean it out. I've had it happen more than once on my Python. |
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Originally Posted By LipschitzWrath: However, what can't be debated and is well documented is that repeatedly using 38 special in a 357 cylinder will form a carbon ring… No argument here. My preference is to use .357 brass for target loads. But I’m also not shy about shooting .38 Spl. in a .357 chamber. Just clean it afterward, before shooting magnums. |
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A whole lot of common sense these days is lacking in all aspects of life. I learned to clean the individual chambers of my dad's Colt 357 when I was wee lad. Shooting 38 Special cast bullet reloads, there was a crud build up. A little elbow grease and some Hoppe's #9! I used to think that Gun Owners/Hunters/Competitive Shooters/Plinkers/Reloaders were a cut of above the main portion of our country. Seems that is not the case anymore. People perpetuate Wives Tales with no foundation all because they read it on the internet. People insist their's is the only way! Some outright thieves amongst us. The local LGS has whole list of thefts |
jme and I am a NRA Endowment Member
Don't be too timid and squeamish about your actions. All life is an experiment. The more experiments you make the better.
R W Emerson
Don't be too timid and squeamish about your actions. All life is an experiment. The more experiments you make the better.
R W Emerson
|
Best full wadcutter 357 load I have come across is the super soft Hornaday HBWC (covered with the messy silver stuff ) 3.0 Bullseye with a magnum primer . Gently flair the brass and after loading use the crimper to just take the flair out. No real crimp , just a straight case . Claim is the magnum primer makes the load burn consistently . I have tried other wadcutter loads in both 38 and 357 brass and this outshoots everything I have tried by a clear margin . |
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Was at my local gun/reloading store picking up a transfer and he had some bullseye, so I picked up a pound ($61 OUCH). I asked if he had any WC bullets and he had one box of berrys plated 148gr WC. So I picked those up too. When I get some free time, I will load some up and give them a try. |
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Originally Posted By rn22723: I used to think that Gun Owners/Hunters/Competitive Shooters/Plinkers/Reloaders were a cut of above the main portion of our country. Seems that is not the case anymore. To me, that's almost funny. I never thought that. People perpetuate Wives Tales with no foundation all because they read it on the internet. People insist their's is the only way! These two go together, don't they? Reloading and shooting has more "old wives' tales" than any other endeavor or hobby I have ever been involved in. However, if we were to post the mathematical or other basis for criticizing a particular approach or the status quo, people turn off like a switch. Recommending something other than the tried and true beliefs does not go over too well. Oh wait, I'll make a YouTube video. That'll prove I'm right. Like and subscribe, so I make some money at this. I can't just leave that, so I will add this to it. There are some REALLY GOOD people in the shooting community - most, many, sadly not all. I do not know of any thieves. I do know a lot of good people. That thievery may be unique to the retail business where customers come in all types. When your doors are open for retail business, you are going to see all types. |
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Originally Posted By nhsport: Best full wadcutter 357 load I have come across is the super soft Hornaday HBWC (covered with the messy silver stuff ) 3.0 Bullseye with a magnum primer . Gently flair the brass and after loading use the crimper to just take the flair out. No real crimp , just a straight case . Claim is the magnum primer makes the load burn consistently . I have tried other wadcutter loads in both 38 and 357 brass and this outshoots everything I have tried by a clear margin . Having tried magnum primers in my 3.0 gr Bullseye/148 gr Hornady WC loads, the standard primers shot better in my Security Six and GP 100. |
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