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Lima Six Belt fed AR15 Build Thread (Page 5 of 91)
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I finally got around to building a top cover latch prototype. I have to say, this latch is awesome!!! Attached File Attached File That cross bar is 3/16 diameter alloy steel which I believe is sufficient strength for the application. It closes with a very satisfying click, and there is NO play between the top cover and receiver. It opens with just the right amount of force that gives you confidence that it's secure, while not being too difficult. It uses a standard ar15 mag release button and spring, and only requires one custom made part. |
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Good news and bad news today, I struck out on two more vendors for the bolt carrier. However, the shop that is doing the upper receiver and top cover says they can also do the bolt carrier! I was hoping to split the work load across more vendors, but I'll take what I can get. Also, I found a vendor that agreed to do the firing pin and promised me a "good price," although I'm still waiting for the quote. Now the biggest hurdle is the bolt itself. I'm hoping to find someone who already makes bolts to supply me a bolt with NO cam pin hole. That would be the quickest way to the finish line. I will reiterate, I am seeing this through no matter what it takes. |
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Originally Posted By SGT-Fish: Thanks for the update. I am interested in how this is going to work without a cam pin hole. Or are you wanting to drill your own custom hole? The bolt in my design is identical to an AR15 except that the cam pin hole is rotated 22.5 degrees. So yeah, the idea is to pull one off the line before the cam pin hole is drilled, and then drill it myself. By the way, I tried as hard as I could to make this work with a standard bolt, but it just created too many other issues. It is what it is. |
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Originally Posted By Type7SOT: The bolt in my design is identical to an AR15 except that the cam pin hole is rotated 22.5 degrees. So yeah, the idea is to pull one off the line before the cam pin hole is drilled, and then drill it myself. By the way, I tried as hard as I could to make this work with a standard bolt, but it just created too many other issues. It is what it is. Originally Posted By Type7SOT: Originally Posted By SGT-Fish: Thanks for the update. I am interested in how this is going to work without a cam pin hole. Or are you wanting to drill your own custom hole? The bolt in my design is identical to an AR15 except that the cam pin hole is rotated 22.5 degrees. So yeah, the idea is to pull one off the line before the cam pin hole is drilled, and then drill it myself. By the way, I tried as hard as I could to make this work with a standard bolt, but it just created too many other issues. It is what it is. OP, have you reached out to Mark Serbu? He might be able to source you an undrilled bolt. |
I sell firearms produced by the finest child labor in the world, be it Filipino, Muslim, Mormon, Arizonan, or Texan.
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Originally Posted By backbencher: OP, have you reached out to Mark Serbu? He might be able to source you an undrilled bolt. I have not, but I will. Thanks. Also: Attached File Attached File |
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Originally Posted By sgthatred: Who are you using for the metal 3D printing? I'm opting not to disclose my venders at this point, but I will say there are several large metal 3D printing businesses, if you just google "metal 3D printing" there are a ton of websites where you can upload files and get instant quotes. |
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Originally Posted By Type7SOT: I'm opting not to disclose my venders at this point, but I will say there are several large metal 3D printing businesses, if you just google "metal 3D printing" there are a ton of websites where you can upload files and get instant quotes. |
If God didn't want them sheared, he would not have made them sheep.
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Originally Posted By sgthatred: I've been having problems with getting the companies to do firearm parts. Originally Posted By sgthatred: Originally Posted By Type7SOT: I'm opting not to disclose my venders at this point, but I will say there are several large metal 3D printing businesses, if you just google "metal 3D printing" there are a ton of websites where you can upload files and get instant quotes. I've been having problems with getting the companies to do firearm parts. ITAR. |
I sell firearms produced by the finest child labor in the world, be it Filipino, Muslim, Mormon, Arizonan, or Texan.
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Wow. The amount of progress this project has made in such a short time is truly astounding. Sure, it helps to have other belt feds and an existing platform to draw upon, but there are people who design less complicated mechanical systems on YouTube channels as a full time job that can't even touch the development that is going on in this thread. I am here for it, and absolutely intend to support however I can, including parts kits, should they become available. That being said, have you looked at all at the prototype Ciener belt fed AR's? There is a good TFB article that talks about some of the challenges they were trying to design around, as well as some of their solutions. Might be able to draw on some more inspiration or outside-the-box ideas should issues pop up during prototyping. |
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Originally Posted By backbencher: ITAR. There are 3D printing services that are ITAR registered. Many of them, in fact. Also not all firearms parts are ITAR controlled, some are regulated by EAR99 now. But I am not a lawyer. Originally Posted By ABabyEater: Wow. The amount of progress this project has made in such a short time is truly astounding. Sure, it helps to have other belt feds and an existing platform to draw upon, but there are people who design less complicated mechanical systems on YouTube channels as a full time job that can't even touch the development that is going on in this thread. I am here for it, and absolutely intend to support however I can, including parts kits, should they become available. That being said, have you looked at all at the prototype Ciener belt fed AR's? There is a good TFB article that talks about some of the challenges they were trying to design around, as well as some of their solutions. Might be able to draw on some more inspiration or outside-the-box ideas should issues pop up during prototyping. Thanks! I have looked at the Ceiner/Colt design which was picked up by Valkyrie Arms and then Slidefire. There are a few reasons I don't like it: -It requires modifying the lower receiver. This is the biggest deal breaker. - I cant find any plans, and there arent very many pictures online. So I'd have to buy one to reverse engineer it. In which case, I'm not doing anything new and exciting. The design aspect is what keeps this fun. -I dislike the lack of a top cover. Besides for the practical issues of having no top cover, there is just the cool factor of a belt fed with a top cover that I like. |
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Have you considered Centurian Arms? There is a video from The School of the American Rifle https://youtu.be/Hah8bDSJA_8?si=ep_9b5EYo2OJd1AT that mentions a small company doing bolt carriers. They QC inspect some of their bolt carriers and they seem of very good quality.Just a thought. Scott |
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Originally Posted By canon3825: Have you considered Centurian Arms? There is a video from The School of the American Rifle https://youtu.be/Hah8bDSJA_8?si=ep_9b5EYo2OJd1AT that mentions a small company doing bolt carriers. They QC inspect some of their bolt carriers and they seem of very good quality.Just a thought. Scott Thanks for the suggestion! Originally Posted By Elcunning: As soon as this project gets to market, immediately start on a 308 version Yes, this is part of the plan. By the way, I will have some good updates this week. Stay tuned. |
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Just got word from the machine shop, I will have an upper receiver and top cover by the end of the month. Edit: I'm told the top cover is being machined TODAY Attached File |
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Originally Posted By Type7SOT: Just got word from the machine shop, I will have an upper receiver and top cover by the end of the month. Edit: I'm told the top cover is being machined TODAY /media/mediaFiles/sharedAlbum/ace-16.gif Niiiiiiice |
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Wow, that's great news about the upper and top cover! Sad to hear about the Bolt/BCG, but it kind of makes sense considering the requirements. Is the top cover ultimately going to be stamped? It seems like it would be a more traditional LMG "feeling," but I can see manufacturing costs skyrocketing until certain volume thresholds are achieved. That being said, have you looked at all into Roboforming? Companies like Machinalabs claim that it is a cost-effective alternative to a bunch of different manufacturing processes, especially when volume is a concern (like under 10k units). Additionally, as they can be punched out and reused, have you considered using rolled spring pins instead of traditional roll pins for high wear or replaceable components where necessary, things like the gas tube to gas block pin? Also, do you have a sort of summary of the current parts requires for a non-firing functional prototype? It would be really interesting to see a BOM of everything as it sits, being an off the shelf AR15 part, available from McMaster, or custom, and what the status of any custom parts currently is. |
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Originally Posted By ABabyEater: Wow, that's great news about the upper and top cover! Sad to hear about the Bolt/BCG, but it kind of makes sense considering the requirements. Is the top cover ultimately going to be stamped? It seems like it would be a more traditional LMG "feeling," but I can see manufacturing costs skyrocketing until certain volume thresholds are achieved. That being said, have you looked at all into Roboforming? Companies like Machinalabs claim that it is a cost-effective alternative to a bunch of different manufacturing processes, especially when volume is a concern (like under 10k units). Additionally, as they can be punched out and reused, have you considered using rolled spring pins instead of traditional roll pins for high wear or replaceable components where necessary, things like the gas tube to gas block pin? Also, do you have a sort of summary of the current parts requires for a non-firing functional prototype? It would be really interesting to see a BOM of everything as it sits, being an off the shelf AR15 part, available from McMaster, or custom, and what the status of any custom parts currently is. I'm not going to mess with stamping...for several reasons. Mainly, because I'm inexperienced with it. But also, stamping is not as much of a cost saver as it used to be. Just look at AK's vs AR's, you can get an AR15 now for $350, while an AK costs $800. The cost of CNC machining has come WAY down over the years. It's also easier to design parts with CNC machining because you have less design limitations. As for a BOM, yes I have a spreadsheet of all the parts. But off the top of my head, here are the major components: Upper Receiver Top Cover Bolt Carrier Bolt Firing Pin Roller Feed Lever Feed Tray Charging Handle Plus you need some standard M249 parts: Feed pawls Front and rear cartridge guides Some springs & pins There are some other small parts as well, but that's the bulk of it. |
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So I think I may have settled on a name for this beast. The Lima 6 My dad passed away unexpectedly a year ago, and this project has been a way to cope with the loss and keep my mind busy. He was an avid pilot, and his hangar where he stored his airplane was number L6 (lima 6 as called over the radio). When I make a 308 version, it can be the Lima 7. Do you guys like the name? |
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Originally Posted By Type7SOT: So I think I may have settled on a name for this beast. The Lima 6 My dad passed away unexpectedly a year ago, and this project has been a way to cope with the loss and keep my mind busy. He was an avid pilot, and his hangar where he stored his airplane was number L6 (lima 6 as called over the radio). When I make a 308 version, it can be the Lima 7. Do you guys like the name? Love it |
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Sorry for your loss OP. Naming it Lima6 is fitting. Maybe @BrickWurX could design a cool logo for it. @PalmettoStateArmory Amazing progress and very excited to see this come coming together nicely. How is the gas system going to work? Is it going to be on the top like an ar15 or rotated to the side? |
"That pistol just kept saying, let go of my ears, you don't know what you're doing." - thehellbringer
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Originally Posted By Type7SOT: https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/490765/1000007644_jpg-3332971.JPG I didn't know you were making 1919's as well. Hahaha. Put me down for a belt fed when they become available :) |
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Originally Posted By Type7SOT: Haha, it does look like a 1919 trunnion!  Yes I really had to do a double take on that last pic that it wasnt a 1919 on its end! Awesome progress on the 5.55 belt fed. I genuinely would like to get one as soon as they are ready for sale |
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Two quick updates, the upper receiver will be done machinig soon, and I have someone starting on a bolt carrier. This guy has some serious lathes, here is a picture of one: Attached File He'll be using a similar lathe to this one which has 2 collets (and can automatically hand the part back and forth between collets) and tons of live tooling options. So it will be turned and milled in a single machine without needing human intervention. Still looking for someone to do the bolts. Lots of people interested until it comes time to place the order, and then they disappear. |
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| Outstanding work! Have you gotten to the point that you can determine a ballpark cost for consumers for the kit? I was looking at Cryostructure, but am convinced that isn't going anywhere and everything you're working on and updating consistently shows everyone that you're the real deal and making this happen. Looking forward to submitting an order when you're ready. |
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Originally Posted By 03BRRRT: Outstanding work! Have you gotten to the point that you can determine a ballpark cost for consumers for the kit? I was looking at Cryostructure, but am convinced that isn't going anywhere and everything you're working on and updating consistently shows everyone that you're the real deal and making this happen. Looking forward to submitting an order when you're ready. I don't want to say a number yet, but lets just say way less than the MCR. Also, another pic: Attached File It may not look like much, but thats a 3D printed bolt carrier which fits in the upper. |
Lima Six Belt fed AR15 Build Thread (Page 5 of 91)
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