Armory Sponsor
Posted: 1/24/2026 3:25:37 PM EDT
| Never had one before but working on remedying that. Do they come with BUIS and 5 slot keymod rail sections as shown in all the photos or are they bare? Also, what do you get for stocks and grips? Magpul CTR or something else or just depends on what they feel like? I have seen conflicting pics. |
|
Originally Posted By MB_GELANDEWAGEN: Never had one before but working on remedying that. Do they come with BUIS and 5 slot keymod rail sections as shown in all the photos or are they bare? Also, what do you get for stocks and grips? Magpul CTR or something else or just depends on what they feel like? I have seen conflicting pics. Assume you're talking about a base SR15 Mod 2? All will come with a micro BUIS set (front and back) and a MLOK rail (Keymod no longer made). Each gun will also come with a picatinny rail section for the rail like you mentioned. The grip is usually either an A2 grip or Magpul MOE K and the stock is usually a Magpul MOE or STR. |
|
Originally Posted By mdavis: Assume you're talking about a base SR15 Mod 2? All will come with a micro BUIS set (front and back) and a MLOK rail (Keymod no longer made). Each gun will also come with a picatinny rail section for the rail like you mentioned. The grip is usually either an A2 grip or Magpul MOE K and the stock is usually a Magpul MOE or STR. Thank you. The 2 I have my eye on are the new SR-15 KS-1 and KS-3 rifles |
|
Originally Posted By MB_GELANDEWAGEN: Thank you. The 2 I have my eye on are the new SR-15 KS-1 and KS-3 rifles Those aren't out in any appreciable numbers yet, but the images I have seen are the same with a BUIS set and Magpul furniture. Not sure if KAC will still ship with the picatinny rail section. Note you may be waiting until late 2026 to snag one of either model. |
|
Originally Posted By mew: You have to ask yourself why in the world would they not put a B5 Sopmod stock on it in lieu of a Magpul??? I sure do. Having an actual LMT Sopmod on my Mod. 0 which is what they came with who decided to cheap out on the stock??? I greatly prefer any slim magpul stock versus a wide body SOPMOD/STR style stock. |
|
Originally Posted By mew: You have to ask yourself why in the world would they not put a B5 Sopmod stock on it in lieu of a Magpul??? I sure do. Having an actual LMT Sopmod on my Mod. 0 which is what they came with who decided to cheap out on the stock??? Because they are place holders. Why inflate the price with items that are just going to get swapped out immediately by 99% of buyers? Everyone has a favorite stock and grip. btw: it's not a LMT SOPMOD on the Mod 0 it's a KAC SOPMOD, the QD is slightly different, regardless I took mine off day 1. |
|
Originally Posted By Mblades: btw: it's not a LMT SOPMOD on the Mod 0 it's a KAC SOPMOD, the QD is slightly different, regardless I took mine off day 1. BTW: KAC doesn't make stocks. NSW Crane patented the stock and LMT was given the contract to make them and now B5 also. The Gen. 1 Sopmod does not have a QD vs the Gen. 2 that does ie; Mod 0 and later. Also the patent has expired which is why you see cheap copies that are nowhere near the LMT or B5 quality or NSW spec. https://patentimages.storage.googleapis.com/76/e0/92/4d70e70f62fefa/US6543172.pdf |
|
My KS1 arrived with BUIS, a pic section, an A2 Grip, and Magpul SL-K. It also included a KAC QD mount as the URX6 doesn’t have integrated QD mounts. It also included one 30rd PMAG. Also came in a little hard case. My older SR15/25s had A2 grips and SL stocks, and if I recall the oldest had an LMT SOPMOD. |
|
Originally Posted By mew: BTW: KAC doesn't make stocks. NSW Crane patented the stock and LMT was given the contract to make them and now B5 also. The Gen. 1 Sopmod does not have a QD vs the Gen. 2 that does ie; Mod 0 and later. Also the patent has expired which is why you see cheap copies that are nowhere near the LMT or B5 quality or NSW spec. https://patentimages.storage.googleapis.com/76/e0/92/4d70e70f62fefa/US6543172.pdf Originally Posted By mew: Originally Posted By Mblades: btw: it's not a LMT SOPMOD on the Mod 0 it's a KAC SOPMOD, the QD is slightly different, regardless I took mine off day 1. BTW: KAC doesn't make stocks. NSW Crane patented the stock and LMT was given the contract to make them and now B5 also. The Gen. 1 Sopmod does not have a QD vs the Gen. 2 that does ie; Mod 0 and later. Also the patent has expired which is why you see cheap copies that are nowhere near the LMT or B5 quality or NSW spec. https://patentimages.storage.googleapis.com/76/e0/92/4d70e70f62fefa/US6543172.pdf The SOPMOD that came on the MOD 0 aka Legacy SR-15 IWS was slightly different than any of the commercial LMT offerings(flush vs raised QD cups). I believe it was confirmed by one of the KAC employees at the time that they made the stocks for LMT. |
|
Originally Posted By Marksman14: Yep, point being, its like Glock plastic sights. I view them as a placeholder 90% of the time. Sell what you dont like on the EE, get what you do like. Originally Posted By Marksman14: Originally Posted By mew: Meh I guess everyone has their favorite stock  Yep, point being, its like Glock plastic sights. I view them as a placeholder 90% of the time. Sell what you dont like on the EE, get what you do like. True but I bet most would appreciate the premium sop stock on a premium rifle. If they choose to sell it they're looking at way more than a chintzy SL stock. |
|
Originally Posted By Mblades: Because they are place holders. Why inflate the price with items that are just going to get swapped out immediately by 99% of buyers? Everyone has a favorite stock and grip. btw: it's not a LMT SOPMOD on the Mod 0 it's a KAC SOPMOD, the QD is slightly different, regardless I took mine off day 1. Originally Posted By Mblades: Originally Posted By mew: You have to ask yourself why in the world would they not put a B5 Sopmod stock on it in lieu of a Magpul??? I sure do. Having an actual LMT Sopmod on my Mod. 0 which is what they came with who decided to cheap out on the stock??? Because they are place holders. Why inflate the price with items that are just going to get swapped out immediately by 99% of buyers? Everyone has a favorite stock and grip. btw: it's not a LMT SOPMOD on the Mod 0 it's a KAC SOPMOD, the QD is slightly different, regardless I took mine off day 1. I remember seeing most WITH their sop stocks back in the day when they came with them. Most people kept them on imo. Placeholder and buyers choice has nothing to do with it. It's about money. If I remember correctly the price of the lowers/rifles went way up right AFTER they ditched the sopmod. Kac lowers were around $780 forever with sops. |
|
Originally Posted By HecklerKac: I remember seeing most WITH their sop stocks back in the day when they came with them. Most people kept them on imo. Placeholder and buyers choice has nothing to do with it. It's about money. If I remember correctly the price of the lowers/rifles went way up right AFTER they ditched the sopmod. Kac lowers were around $780 forever with sops. Originally Posted By HecklerKac: Originally Posted By Mblades: Originally Posted By mew: You have to ask yourself why in the world would they not put a B5 Sopmod stock on it in lieu of a Magpul??? I sure do. Having an actual LMT Sopmod on my Mod. 0 which is what they came with who decided to cheap out on the stock??? Because they are place holders. Why inflate the price with items that are just going to get swapped out immediately by 99% of buyers? Everyone has a favorite stock and grip. btw: it's not a LMT SOPMOD on the Mod 0 it's a KAC SOPMOD, the QD is slightly different, regardless I took mine off day 1. I remember seeing most WITH their sop stocks back in the day when they came with them. Most people kept them on imo. Placeholder and buyers choice has nothing to do with it. It's about money. If I remember correctly the price of the lowers/rifles went way up right AFTER they ditched the sopmod. Kac lowers were around $780 forever with sops. There were also a lot fewer options back then. I think the only stock Magpul made at the time was the CTR. Look how unpopular the sopmod is now. Im sure money has something to do with it but that cost just gets passed on to the consumer, personally im happy to pay less vs getting an expensive stock I don’t want. I remember when colt was offering 6920s with no stock, trigger guard or rail for a couple hundred less than the standard model. I thought that was genius. Originally Posted By defender: My mod 1 QD cup SR-15 stock says LMT on the bottom Again, my understanding is KAC made the stocks for LMT. Contracting out work is incredibly common in the firearms industry. |
|
Originally Posted By Mblades: There were also a lot fewer options back then. I think the only stock Magpul made at the time was the CTR. Look how unpopular the sopmod is now. Im sure money has something to do with it but that cost just gets passed on to the consumer, personally im happy to pay less vs getting an expensive stock I don’t want. I remember when colt was offering 6920s with no stock, trigger guard or rail for a couple hundred less than the standard model. I thought that was genius. Again, my understanding is KAC made the stocks for LMT. Contracting out work is incredibly common in It's no coincidence that the auto-start/stop and other switchgear in cars looks the exact same. I'm sure KAC could develop, produce, and sell their own stock on their rifles if they wanted to. They just don't. Other people do it well (better) and at scale that KAC can't touch. I don't think Magpul even does their own injection molding. |
I sell people a means to defend themselves.
Joined:
Mar 2009
Posts:
10366
EE: 100% (253)
UT, USA
|
Nope, I am not sure. They might make some of their own stuff or they may have brought things in-house over time. For a long while though, they were subcontracting their plastics for sure. |
|
A quick search reveals this is not correct. The LMT (Lewis Machine & Tool) SOPMOD stock is one of the most iconic and influential accessories to emerge from the USSOCOM Special Operations Peculiar Modification (SOPMOD) program, designed to upgrade the M4A1 carbine. It was developed to offer superior cheek weld, improved comfort, and on-board storage compared to standard mil-spec carbine stocks. Origins: NSWC Crane (1990s–2002) Design & Development: The stock was designed in the late 1990s/early 2000s by the Crane Division of the Naval Surface Warfare Center (NSWC Crane) in Indiana. Initial Production: The first batch of "Gen 1" stocks was produced in-house at NSWC Crane, with estimates suggesting fewer than 1,000 units were produced on initial, limited tooling. These early, unmarked stocks were often referred to as "Crane Stocks." Combat Testing: These early stocks were quickly issued and battle-tested during the wars in Afghanistan (2001) and Iraq (2003). The LMT Era (2004–2011) Primary Contractor: Due to high demand, NSWC Crane transitioned production to private industry, with LMT (Lewis Machine & Tool) taking over the contract in roughly 2004. "Pat. Pend." Marking: Early LMT-produced stocks were similar to the original Crane design, often featuring "Pat. Pend." marks on the right side. Improvements: LMT introduced improvements, such as more robust storage tubes and better fitment on mil-spec buffer tubes, becoming the preferred stock for USSOCOM. Gen 2 Features: Later LMT versions (often called Gen 2) featured built-in QD (Quick Detach) sling swivel mounts on the rear of the latch, replacing the open sling stud hole used on Gen 1 designs. The Shift to B5 Systems (2011–Present) Transition: While LMT was the original commercial and military contractor, B5 Systems was selected by the US Army in 2009 to supply the SOPMOD stock, beginning full-scale delivery by 2011. Why B5? LMT-produced stocks were high-quality but carried a premium price tag; B5 was able to produce the same design, holding multiple government contracts for black non-QD stocks, often at a lower cost. Continued Usage: While B5 Systems is now a primary manufacturer for the Department of Defense, original LMT SOPMOD stocks are still considered highly desirable by "cloners" (those building historically accurate military rifles). |
|
Originally Posted By mew: A quick search reveals this is not correct. The LMT (Lewis Machine & Tool) SOPMOD stock is one of the most iconic and influential accessories to emerge from the USSOCOM Special Operations Peculiar Modification (SOPMOD) program, designed to upgrade the M4A1 carbine. It was developed to offer superior cheek weld, improved comfort, and on-board storage compared to standard mil-spec carbine stocks. Origins: NSWC Crane (1990s–2002) Design & Development: The stock was designed in the late 1990s/early 2000s by the Crane Division of the Naval Surface Warfare Center (NSWC Crane) in Indiana. Initial Production: The first batch of "Gen 1" stocks was produced in-house at NSWC Crane, with estimates suggesting fewer than 1,000 units were produced on initial, limited tooling. These early, unmarked stocks were often referred to as "Crane Stocks." Combat Testing: These early stocks were quickly issued and battle-tested during the wars in Afghanistan (2001) and Iraq (2003). The LMT Era (2004–2011) Primary Contractor: Due to high demand, NSWC Crane transitioned production to private industry, with LMT (Lewis Machine & Tool) taking over the contract in roughly 2004. "Pat. Pend." Marking: Early LMT-produced stocks were similar to the original Crane design, often featuring "Pat. Pend." marks on the right side. Improvements: LMT introduced improvements, such as more robust storage tubes and better fitment on mil-spec buffer tubes, becoming the preferred stock for USSOCOM. Gen 2 Features: Later LMT versions (often called Gen 2) featured built-in QD (Quick Detach) sling swivel mounts on the rear of the latch, replacing the open sling stud hole used on Gen 1 designs. The Shift to B5 Systems (2011–Present) Transition: While LMT was the original commercial and military contractor, B5 Systems was selected by the US Army in 2009 to supply the SOPMOD stock, beginning full-scale delivery by 2011. Why B5? LMT-produced stocks were high-quality but carried a premium price tag; B5 was able to produce the same design, holding multiple government contracts for black non-QD stocks, often at a lower cost. Continued Usage: While B5 Systems is now a primary manufacturer for the Department of Defense, original LMT SOPMOD stocks are still considered highly desirable by "cloners" (those building historically accurate military rifles). Ever consider your AI search result may not have all the info? Maybe @Jack_L or @Coldblue or any of the other resident KAC experts can give us a definitive answer. I know for a fact the QD cups in the stocks that came with KAC rifles are different than the QD cups in the retail stocks. |
| No because everyone else talks conjecture. It's a fact Crane developed the SOPMOD, it's a fact LMT had the contract for manufacture and now in addition B5 so where is there anything written about any other manufacture?? There is none unless you can find it. As stated above the pat. pending is on my Mod 0 version and all the others I've seen so what more are you looking for as far as facts?? And I would love to hear Jack L's version as he would surely know. And if Knights ever "made" a SOPMOD stock why would they stop??? It's almost a really silly idea. |
|
I remember reading a post years ago on this forum from one of the KAC employees that KAC made all of LMT’s SOPMOD stocks. Iirc there has also been at least one other manufacturer. I don’t think LMT’s contract would preclude another company making them for LMT. Colt subbed out many parts for the M4 family that went to gov contracts. As to why KAC would stop making SOPMOD stocks, maybe the molds wore out, maybe it didn’t make financial sense once B5 got the contract. |
|
Originally Posted By mew: No because everyone else talks conjecture. It's a fact Crane developed the SOPMOD, it's a fact LMT had the contract for manufacture and now in addition B5 so where is there anything written about any other manufacture?? There is none unless you can find it. As stated above the pat. pending is on my Mod 0 version and all the others I've seen so what more are you looking for as far as facts?? And I would love to hear Jack L's version as he would surely know. And if Knights ever "made" a SOPMOD stock why would they stop??? It's almost a really silly idea. Because that’s how contract manufacturing works. You make the thing you were hired to make for as long as you are paid to make it. You don’t just get to steal someone’s intellectual property and keep making their product for yourself. Talk about a really silly idea. |
|
This may deepen the mystery… I have a sopmod with the hole for a QD mount but no QD in it (fell out or was not installed). This was a year or so ago but I think I remember the details correctly. Called LMT and was told they could not install the QD socket. Called KAC and the best they could do was send me a QD socket but they didn’t have the machine to install them anymore. I said I’ll take them but not sure what to do with them. So maybe LMT made the stocks and KAC installed the special flush fit QDs that come on KAC rifles? ETA- just called LMT and tech support said they could install them… |
|
If KAC produced the SOPMOD stock for another company we would be bound by an NDA that would preclude public disclosure, and NDAs of that type can carry a protection against disclosure even after expiration of that NDA. *IF* KAC did make the stock on contract for another company, as it was a SOCOM owned design IP, if that contract was lost to another manufacturer, KAC would no longer be licensed to continue production of that item. Further, molding requires significant volume to be profitable. Losing the primary buyer would reduce volume, making it less worthwhile to produce. |
|
Originally Posted By Jack_L: If KAC produced the SOPMOD stock for another company we would be bound by an NDA that would preclude public disclosure, and NDAs of that type can carry a protection against disclosure even after expiration of that NDA. *IF* KAC did make the stock on contract for another company, as it was a SOCOM owned design IP, if that contract was lost to another manufacturer, KAC would no longer be licensed to continue production of that item. Further, molding requires significant volume to be profitable. Losing the primary buyer would reduce volume, making it less worthwhile to produce. I kind of figured that may be the case but thanks for info regardless! |
Armory Sponsor