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Posted: 1/7/2025 6:14:49 PM EDT
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I built a 11" pistol Para FAL out of DSA parts many moons ago. I shot it a good bit. Dont ever recall any issues. Long story short on that thing I let a guy shoot it. He was using his reloads. The gun doubled and the 2nd round must have been slightly out of battery because it blew the dang extractor out and knocked the stock loose. He continued on shooting his ammo in his gun with no issues. I rebuilt the gun into a 16" after the mishap. It needed some parts like the locking shoulder and extractor. Bolt was pretty much fine other than the extractor so I reused it. When I was zeroing this gun after the rebuild I too happened to run across it doubling. I was going really slow with the trigger and it simply let two out in such a fast fashion that I wasnt quite sure it happened. Nothing bad happened and wondered if I had accidentally bump fired it since I was shooting slow and for groups. Well the last time I had it out I again was letting a different guy shoot it. This time with my ammos. Out came a double as he was shooting at a distant target. This one broke a casing and the gun went down. I shelved the gun for a good while but have recently busted it back out. I have stripped down the firing control group. Nothing looks amiss. The hammer face has some battering from use but nothing crazy. The sear and the interfaces of it locking up all seems good to go to my untrained FAL eyes Checked the headspacing. Nothing looks wrong there. The bolt doesnt move when its locked up. It falls into battery with not much pressure. It chambers the rounds I have with no sorts of issues. It doesnt unlock hard when loaded. Just seems fine all around Ive ensured the firing pin isnt broken and doesnt seem to bind anywhere. I have slammed the trigger group with about as much force as I can slinging the bolt back and forth. I cannot get it to drop inadvertently. Logic says replace the FCG but after trying to get it to fail and not being able to Im not sure thats the problem Any ideas? Perhaps the shorter para stock makes it a bit more susceptible to accidental bump firing when going real slow with the trigger? 
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Battle Of West Appalachia Survivor
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Originally Posted By osprey21: I've seen a FAL double if it's not held tight enough. It also depends on the Trigger group parts, spring tensions, etc, but its one thing to consider. I feel like it makes most sense and I was hoping a few might chime in to say they have experienced it. If I saw some damage to the firing control group Id feel different. But the interfaces all looked good. It feels like a stockish mil trigger and not like its riding a razor edge for a good trigger pull. Ive got 100 rounds loaded up for it to give it a try again hopefully this week to try and put my faith back into this thing |
Battle Of West Appalachia Survivor
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Originally Posted By SteelonSteel: It’s a shame that the safety sear is verboten except in class 3 FALs or LE imported guns. It is a part that keeps that from happening but also in the design facilitates full auto. Yeah I have to agree I'm not 100% sure it's a mechanical problem but either way you are correct It happened just enough to cause concern but so rarely it's hard to track down My gut has wondered about it simply being accidental bump firing for a little bit though |
Battle Of West Appalachia Survivor
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Originally Posted By JackwagonJim: Check your fcg and see if its marked Fse. They made some that were a bit out of spec and known to cause doubles...ask me how I know.  Lol I'll give that a look Anywhere specifically it maybe marked that you can recall? |
Battle Of West Appalachia Survivor
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Originally Posted By chase45: Lol I'll give that a look Anywhere specifically it maybe marked that you can recall? Originally Posted By chase45: Originally Posted By JackwagonJim: Check your fcg and see if its marked Fse. They made some that were a bit out of spec and known to cause doubles...ask me how I know. Lol I'll give that a look Anywhere specifically it maybe marked that you can recall? FSE = First Sons Enterprises. Should be an FSE marked on the hammer in an easy to see location. They revised it at some point and, IIRC, will be marked FSE2. I'd go with genuine parts if you can afford the 922r compliance. |
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Originally Posted By Seth_Livzz: FSE = First Sons Enterprises. Should be an FSE marked on the hammer in an easy to see location. They revised it at some point and, IIRC, will be marked FSE2. I'd go with genuine parts if you can afford the 922r compliance. Originally Posted By Seth_Livzz: Originally Posted By chase45: Originally Posted By JackwagonJim: Check your fcg and see if its marked Fse. They made some that were a bit out of spec and known to cause doubles...ask me how I know. Lol I'll give that a look Anywhere specifically it maybe marked that you can recall? FSE = First Sons Enterprises. Should be an FSE marked on the hammer in an easy to see location. They revised it at some point and, IIRC, will be marked FSE2. I'd go with genuine parts if you can afford the 922r compliance. Hammer for sure. 100% agree with using genuine parts. |
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Originally Posted By RedFox1911: It should take the standard bayonet. I can't see if the barrel has the bipod cut with the flashlight in the way. The handguards are the right kind though. Good deal. The bayonet was the part I wasnt sure on It does have the bipod cut |
Battle Of West Appalachia Survivor
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Originally Posted By Stoney: i remember that happened to me, it was a bump fire, put tight in the shoulder fixed it. It really could be as simple as this The times Ive seen it happen or had it happen was during slow fire Im not sure I ever had it happen to me with the shorty because I was always just mashin the trigger until empty on that thing
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Battle Of West Appalachia Survivor
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Originally Posted By osprey21: My DSA 58 Congo Para is bipod cut and accepts the Type 'C' tubular socket bayonet. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/766/dscn1317-3428788.jpg How does it clip on and off exactly I looked online for a video and ill be danged if there doesnt seem to be a single video for attaching a FAL bayonet. Granted youtubes policy may have nixed any that showed this I understand it goes on the flash hider but didnt know how it locks/unlocks |
Battle Of West Appalachia Survivor
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Originally Posted By chase45: How does it clip on and off exactly I looked online for a video and ill be danged if there doesnt seem to be a single video for attaching a FAL bayonet. Granted youtubes policy may have nixed any that showed this I understand it goes on the flash hider but didnt know how it locks/unlocks Slides right on. At 6 o'clock on the back edge of the flash hider (combo device) is a notch for the bayonet latch to engage. Lift the latch and pull forward to remove. |
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A few thoughts: #1- does it have a semi auto only selector? (One that rotates only to semi, either due to the grip, or the selector itself). If not, it could be being rotating to Auto, and getting hammer follow, and combine that with a bad firing pin or soft primers, and it could double I think. I have only seen the auto position cause stoppage when the hammer followed, but I haven’t fired anything with soft primers either… #2- another thing could be the fire control group. Pretty easy to swap that out. Had an AK build where I used a Century FCG, and if you were being precise on the trigger you could release the hammer, but not be back far enough for the disconnector to catch the hammer for the following round, and it could double. Was extremely hard to duplicate it. If you yanked the trigger it was fine obviously. Fixed by going to a new trigger group, problem solved. #3- I would take a real good look at the firing pin. Could be getting stuck occasionally while forward, and slam firing. If you had damage from an OOB I think this is a definite possibility. Be aware there are one piece and 2 piece firing pins, and I don’t recall exactly why the difference off the top of my head…. But a one piece pin, busted in 2 pieces, could get jammed up possibly and protrude, causing that OOB. Bump firing would be a possibility, had it not been damaged by an OOB detonation. Bumping means the trigger reset, so it should have been in battery if in S/A…. Just some ideas to check on. Betting if you swapped out the trigger set and firing pin, and make sure it doesn’t rotate to auto, it won’t happen again…. |
a loaded gun won’t set you free, so you say…
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Originally Posted By tac556: A few thoughts: #1- does it have a semi auto only selector? (One that rotates only to semi, either due to the grip, or the selector itself). If not, it could be being rotating to Auto, and getting hammer follow, and combine that with a bad firing pin or soft primers, and it could double I think. I have only seen the auto position cause stoppage when the hammer followed, but I haven’t fired anything with soft primers either… #2- another thing could be the fire control group. Pretty easy to swap that out. Had an AK build where I used a Century FCG, and if you were being precise on the trigger you could release the hammer, but not be back far enough for the disconnector to catch the hammer for the following round, and it could double. Was extremely hard to duplicate it. If you yanked the trigger it was fine obviously. Fixed by going to a new trigger group, problem solved. #3- I would take a real good look at the firing pin. Could be getting stuck occasionally while forward, and slam firing. If you had damage from an OOB I think this is a definite possibility. Be aware there are one piece and 2 piece firing pins, and I don’t recall exactly why the difference off the top of my head…. But a one piece pin, busted in 2 pieces, could get jammed up possibly and protrude, causing that OOB. Bump firing would be a possibility, had it not been damaged by an OOB detonation. Bumping means the trigger reset, so it should have been in battery if in S/A…. Just some ideas to check on. Betting if you swapped out the trigger set and firing pin, and make sure it doesn’t rotate to auto, it won’t happen again…. Nope this one has a semi only as far as Im aware. The parts were all new DSA about a decade ago. I cannot replicate a error with the trigger group when dry firing it. Ive played around with it a decent bit. I still may replace the parts if it happens again though I have not had a chance to fire this girl off this week with all the winter weather. Hoping to soon though. Hopefully that will give me a bit more insight |
Battle Of West Appalachia Survivor
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Originally Posted By chase45: How does it clip on and off exactly I looked online for a video and ill be danged if there doesnt seem to be a single video for attaching a FAL bayonet. Granted youtubes policy may have nixed any that showed this I understand it goes on the flash hider but didnt know how it locks/unlocks The piece on the rear is the spring loaded lever to unlatch it from the FH - pull up on it to unlatch the bayonet.  The internal spring loaded locking bar that catches on a slot at the rear of the FH. HTH  |
Sine misericordia, sine pœnitentia.
| When I was rebuilding FALs with modern parts (rails etc.) in Peru roughly 25% of the rifles would double due to slightly weaker firing pin springs once swapped out the rifles stopped doubling. The firing pin spring is critical due to the heavy recoil spring the FAL has to ensure proper stripping of the rounds from the magazine and locking of the tilting bolt. |
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Originally Posted By DSArms_FAL: When I was rebuilding FALs with modern parts (rails etc.) in Peru roughly 25% of the rifles would double due to slightly weaker firing pin springs once swapped out the rifles stopped doubling. The firing pin spring is critical due to the heavy recoil spring the FAL has to ensure proper stripping of the rounds from the magazine and locking of the tilting bolt. Thanks for the info! I could see where that could possibly be the issue I'll add that I have changed the Para recoil springs. But I have never changed the firing pin spring |
Battle Of West Appalachia Survivor
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My original Belgium FALs did not have the firing pin spring in them and would slam fire if a round was just dropped in the chamber and the bolt was slammed home. The round HAD to be stripped from the magazine to slow the bolt momentum enough for the round to chamber without firing. I mention this because it points out the importance of the firing pin spring to keep the firing pin rearward during the cycling/chambering process. It might just be prudent to replace the firing pin spring to eliminate that possibility as the source of the problem. Good luck! TheMULE |
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I ended up getting the firing pin and spring. The new firing pin would bind a bit in my bolt. My old firing pin does not have the phosphate coating. So Im still using the old firing pin. The new spring was a decent bit longer than the old one I did end up also getting the bipod. I like it quite a bit but it is decently heavy. Also grabbed a bayonet but alas it does not fit. Might try and cut and weld to see if I can make it latch up just past the muzzle device Ive shot about 80 rounds through it without a issue Attached File |
Battle Of West Appalachia Survivor
| I can get a Garand to double pussyfooting the trigger and allowing the recoil, if the stock isnot fixed against the shoulder, to reset and trip the trigger and sear. Not an uncommon thing when you have a semi rifle with recoil. Not just an issue with a FAL. |
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I'm getting down to the last box, the others have all been destroyed...
I'm getting down to the last box, the others have all been destroyed...
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I have one that doubles all the time. It's the shit Made in the USA trigger that I installed back when I had respect for the federal government. It will double when the trigger is pulled a certain subtle way. A change in posture being all the catalyst that needs to manifest itself. |
And then, he arrives at the last item on his bucket list...
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Originally Posted By fxntime: I can get a Garand to double pussyfooting the trigger and allowing the recoil, if the stock isnot fixed against the shoulder, to reset and trip the trigger and sear. Not an uncommon thing when you have a semi rifle with recoil. Not just an issue with a FAL. |
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Test for any escapement style semi-auto is as follows... -unload firearm -put in semi -pull trigger and hold trigger to the rear -cycle bolt/carrier (bolt/carrier should catch on sear) -slowly release trigger (bolt/carrier should release from sear and catch on trigger) Geometry and spring issues will usually result in the hammer falling on that last step if there is an escapemment-related issue. This was fairly common on homebrewed kits back in the glory days and was the first test I would perform on any 'for sale' or 'I dunno why it doesn't work' builds. I've seen probably 15 FALs that manifested repeated doubling at my FAL match over the years. All had aftermarket or modified fire control parts. Is this stock? "No, it has a reduced..." "No, I had a smith lighten the..." "No, I had a Giese..." I think only one couldn't be made operational on-site by installing stock parts. |
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