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Is the SCAR worth buying in 2025? (Page 2 of 2)
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Originally Posted By Jm11513: Yeah thats not hard to do when you tailor the test against the m4 that got back from being drug around Afghanistan, and count burst FCG memory as malfunctions. Originally Posted By Jm11513: Yeah thats not hard to do when you tailor the test against the m4 that got back from being drug around Afghanistan, and count burst FCG memory as malfunctions. Link? Originally Posted By lazyengineer: Apparently neither does anyone else - it's never became the standard US issue I run an SFAR now Makes perfect sense |
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Originally Posted By CKxx: Link? Makes perfect sense Originally Posted By CKxx: Originally Posted By Jm11513: Yeah thats not hard to do when you tailor the test against the m4 that got back from being drug around Afghanistan, and count burst FCG memory as malfunctions. Link? Originally Posted By lazyengineer: Apparently neither does anyone else - it's never became the standard US issue I run an SFAR now Makes perfect sense donno - but if you Google it: 2007 M4 SCAR Test Rigged The 2007 M4 SCAR test has been a subject of controversy, with some suggesting that the test was not entirely fair. According to a U.S. military contact, the HK416 and M4 carbines were the only production weapons, and they were borrowed "sight unseen" without the manufacturers' knowledge that they were for a test. In contrast, the 10 SCARs and 10 XM8s were "handmade" and delivered to Aberdeen with full knowledge of the test. Additionally, the SCAR reportedly received extra lubrication during the test, which could have given it an advantage. The test results showed that the Colt M4 Carbine had 882 stoppages over 60,000 rounds, while the FN SCAR had 226 stoppages. However, it's important to note that a significant percentage of the stoppages for each weapon were caused by magazine failures, which means that the actual performance of the weapons themselves might have been closer than the raw numbers suggest. These factors have led to questions about the fairness and reliability of the test results, suggesting that the conditions under which the weapons were tested may not have been entirely equal. AI-generated answer. Please verify critical facts. Basically, most of the failures were shitty magazine failures, and there is some question on if this were tenderly loved SCAR's vs Beater M4's - with shitty magazines. How much is true? Beats me, but in general the M4 is a good bit more reliable than those test statistics indicate. Considering the stellar job US Army did with the Sig P320 vs the Glock where they gamed the fuck out of it to pass the P320; it's not exactly absurd to have questions. Not saying SCAR is a POS - just saying it's classic Belgian-FN overpriced for what you get, and I'm not so sure its perceived superiority advantages are actually there. I find it a goofy cumbersome that I'd take an M4 over all day long. The .308 SCAR works, but there are other units I like better. To OP's point - if you want a SCAR, and enjoy a SCAR, get a SCAR! They're cool guns. They aren't the gush-fest to me, there are other guns I like better; but all good. |
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I have to say as far as the 17 goes…Its one of the only firearms I sold that I regretted so much that I had to replace it. I always felt it was overpriced esp including the required upgrades to make it perfect for my needs (KNS Discarder, geissele trigger, removal of stock muzzle device, midwest mk17 mount and the ol grip pod). The 16 I own pretty much just sits on the wall these days but it shoots well and is reliable. The only issues ive ran into over the years were optic eating and point of impact deviation between ammo brands appeared more apparent than my ar10/m14 types however those platforms are not without their own faults either… |
| I got a 17 in December and its awesome, only real downside is cost: rifle, ammo, mags, quality optic. Its one of the few guns I plan to keep pretty stock other than adding the discarder. |
No one could take His life, He laid it down for me,
That twisted wreath of thorns, yea He took that crown for me,
But after three days, out of the ground for me,
He overcame it all, now I live to serve Him
That twisted wreath of thorns, yea He took that crown for me,
But after three days, out of the ground for me,
He overcame it all, now I live to serve Him
What have the Romans ever done for us?
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Originally Posted By Brutus_15: Buy the Geissele trigger. Just do it. Originally Posted By Brutus_15: Originally Posted By seamasterpro: I got a 17 in December and its awesome, only real downside is cost: rifle, ammo, mags, quality optic. Its one of the few guns I plan to keep pretty stock other than adding the discarder. Buy the Geissele trigger. Just do it. x200. I consider it part of the cost when acquiring one. |
Panem et Circenses
I have also learned from experience that the greater part of our happiness or misery depends upon our dispositions, and not upon our circumstances.
I have also learned from experience that the greater part of our happiness or misery depends upon our dispositions, and not upon our circumstances.
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Originally Posted By CKxx: Link? Makes perfect sense Its unfortunately hard to find links to 17 year old articles and power points. This is the best i can do https://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2014/08/25/2004-m4-dust-tests/ And since it's tangentially related, remember the battle of Wanat? Everyone gave the m4 shit for its failure, but everyone shut up when it turned out they were the last weapons to fail. |
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My only complaints is the OEM MD, it's loud but I'm sure it's why it's soft shooting. Cost is another and having to buy a Giessele trigger isn't cheap. If I got another 17 I'd look into those aftermarket lowers that take regular mags and AR parts but I already am invested in mags and the trigger. It's my favorite rifle and if 308 wasn't so expensive I'd probably think about using it as my primary rifle all though 556 has it's advantages besides just being cheaper. If the scar was half the price it would be right behind and close to the AR and AK as far as civilian rifles in this country and have more iterations/aftermarket support. |
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Originally Posted By lazyengineer: You're in the FN forum, so I imagine you'll get quite a few yes! For me... not really. It's very expensive and very heavy - with little benefit to my own interests. But I'm sure others love theirs. In its stripped form its literally one of the lightest platforms you can buy, in 5.56 or 7.62. It becomes front heavy when you add a can, because the rear is so light. |
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Originally Posted By FrankW134: In its stripped form its literally one of the lightest platforms you can buy, in 5.56 or 7.62. It becomes front heavy when you add a can, because the rear is so light. Originally Posted By FrankW134: Originally Posted By lazyengineer: You're in the FN forum, so I imagine you'll get quite a few yes! For me... not really. It's very expensive and very heavy - with little benefit to my own interests. But I'm sure others love theirs. In its stripped form its literally one of the lightest platforms you can buy, in 5.56 or 7.62. It becomes front heavy when you add a can, because the rear is so light. I love the SCAR but the 5.56 is nowhere near one of the lightest platforms around. It weighs in at 7.25 pounds, per FN. A DD RISIII 16" setup weighs 6.52 pounds. A DDM4V7 16" setup weighs 6.2 pounds. A Colt 6960 16" setup weighs 5.95 pounds, per multiple webpages (Including PSAs website). |
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The scar 17 is the only .308 i really care for. Might get another one day. I’ve had a scar 16s sbr for a while and i prefer a ar15 with a super duty mod1 upper so im getting rid of my scar 16s. The 300blk 15p sbr should be worth keeping but only time will tell. I will have to take more time to compare it to a dd or g$ 300blk upper. The 5.56 15p is pretty stupid. I can pass on the 20s in either caliber because I can do what ever I could really need with the 13in or 16in barrel .308 17s |
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If you want a SCAR, than absolutely. The 17S (7.62) is arguably the most capable battle rifle available. Granted FN sets it up poorly from the factory, but after you swap out the trigger and swap to a Rego Systems SMR extended mlock with side rail delete, it's a trim fighting platform that is more accurate than it has any right to be. With that much cash into it, it is expensive. I got my 17S in 2011 for $2.4k, so with the add ons, I'm in it for about $3K. Not terrible. Closest competitor would be the Sig SPEAR (~$4K), which I also have. I prefer the SCAR. I also have the 16S. Less compelling case for it, but still a cool gun. All that said, if your willing to do the upgrades, I think you'll have the most capable battle rifle currently offered with the 17S. Biggest issue for me, and it's a big one, would be parts avaialbility. FN trickles out parts in batches which drives up prices on the secondary market. That totally sucks. If the KAC weren't hyper inflated, it would get an honorable mention. My SR-25 ACC has be nothing short of phenominal, but I got it at MSRP (~$4ishK IIRC) several years ago. Now they command crazy prices which I would consider disqualifying for this conversation. |
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Originally Posted By Mblades: Now list the countries that use the SCAR, it dwarfs LMT. Has the LMT ever been used in combat? SCARs are stacking bodies in Ukrainian as we speak. Originally Posted By Mblades: Originally Posted By cms81586: Originally Posted By Mblades: M110 sass, maybe, not as widely adopted, not in service as long. LMT not even close. Several countries have adopted large frame LMT’s in limited quantities. Notably the Brits and their 3000+ L129A1’s. The SCAR-H really only saw limited SOCOM use. Neither were widely adopted. Now list the countries that use the SCAR, it dwarfs LMT. Has the LMT ever been used in combat? SCARs are stacking bodies in Ukrainian as we speak. Switzerland recently purchased 5.56 and 7.62 LMT rifles. New Zealand, UK, Estonia, and Lebanon are other examples. SCAR H is more limited as most countries are going with the MK20, PRS or whatever their various precision model variants are called. This Ukrainian soldier seems to like the SCAR L:  FN SCAR L: GOLDEN STANDARD His other videos mention some reliability problems with Daniel Defense rifles, and also mentions that people pull the rails off for sale and replace them with cheaper Chinese stuff. |
What have the Romans ever done for us?
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Originally Posted By Flogger23m: Switzerland recently purchased 5.56 and 7.62 LMT rifles. New Zealand, UK, Estonia, and Lebanon are other examples. SCAR H is more limited as most countries are going with the MK20, PRS or whatever their various precision model variants are called. This Ukrainian soldier seems to like the SCAR L:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1cb6UzlnY-kHis other videos mention some reliability problems with Daniel Defense rifles, and also mentions that people pull the rails off for sale and replace them with cheaper Chinese stuff. I now need a 14" 5.56 barrel and a bayonet |
Panem et Circenses
I have also learned from experience that the greater part of our happiness or misery depends upon our dispositions, and not upon our circumstances.
I have also learned from experience that the greater part of our happiness or misery depends upon our dispositions, and not upon our circumstances.
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OK, revisiting thread-ressurection on this one. I've talked a decent amount of smack against the SCAR. I've shot them several times. They just never clicked for me. Then, donno - friend brought his 16" SCAR-16 back out to range today and it was a bitch getting it zero'd. ... because his flash-hider was coming loose. Tighten that back up, and keep shooting and. Um... Kinda Damn. He has the $250 Geissele trigger in it. And we just started feeding it ammo after finally (FINALLY) getting it dialed in, on 200 yard steel. And just.. wow. That's kind of a sweetheart. It wasn't quite as heavy as I remembered, since this time no suppressor. Got it zero'd and just pounded the 200 yard steel. Switched to action bay, and did some run and gun with an M4, the SCAR, and an RDB. Guns of that run today, that I liked best for run and gun.. Honestly, for #1 that SCAR-16 was kind of amazing. I'm actually going to put it first, if you can believe it. The charging handle whacked me a couple times, that was annoying, but the gun kept running. The recoil and stay on target with run and gun was unreal. It just stayed there, right on target, for follow-up shots. Better than most any 5.56 I recall ever running, it just stayed on target. Maybe my MK18 competes, I didn't bring it today, but I was pretty wow'ed by that SCAR once you go afoot with it. #2 The RDB, with gas tuned, did pretty decent, but it was a slower soft-recoil, than the SCAR (if that makes any sense), meaning it's not a snap back on target, but more of a soft move.. and OK, now we're ready to shoot again (you'd have to run a soft-tuned RDB to get it). #3 the M4 is always an old favorite, but this one was a carbine gas, and bit over-gassed at that - so it was notably more jumpy than I felt it should have been. ( I also ran a Stribog SP9A3, and rank that one maybe as fun or more fun as the SCAR, but that's comparing a 9mm to a 5.56). But back to the SCAR. Um... maybe I'll just talk less shit about that gun, cause that was one fun reliable accurate pleasant controllable gun to run, I can't deny. It's big. And, well It ... uh, well it got hot, so yea. it gets hot... when you run the shit out if it. I guess there we go, it can get hot. (seriously, that long skinny barrel does get a bit smoking hot, don't grab that) 
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16 and 17 are still my 2 favorite rifles. Above my knights, above my b&t’s, above my sigs, above my LMT’s I’ve got over 10k on the 16s (suppressed, 10”) with 2 malfunctions, and over 4k on the 17s (suppressed, 13”) 0 malfunctions after I dialed in the gas. |
| The Scar has a unique recoil impulse that makes it super enjoyable to shoot vs almost any other 5.56 rifle. It’s well-balanced and reliable. To me it’s an outstanding option at around $1,800 but they’re $2k+ used at the moment and new prices are ridiculous. With Makasis at around $1k , used Bren 2s at $1,300+,, ARX100s at $900+, new Colts going for $700+, gen 1 MCXs at $1,300+, etc. there’s just too many good options for 5.56 rifles at much more reasonable prices. |
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Originally Posted By lazyengineer: OK, revisiting thread-ressurection on this one. I've talked a decent amount of smack against the SCAR. I've shot them several times. They just never clicked for me. Then, donno - friend brought his 16" SCAR-16 back out to range today and it was a bitch getting it zero'd. ... because his flash-hider was coming loose. Tighten that back up, and keep shooting and. Um... Kinda Damn. He has the $250 Geissele trigger in it. And we just started feeding it ammo after finally (FINALLY) getting it dialed in, on 200 yard steel. And just.. wow. That's kind of a sweetheart. It wasn't quite as heavy as I remembered, since this time no suppressor. Got it zero'd and just pounded the 200 yard steel. Switched to action bay, and did some run and gun with an M4, the SCAR, and an RDB. Guns of that run today, that I liked best for run and gun.. Honestly, for #1 that SCAR-16 was kind of amazing. I'm actually going to put it first, if you can believe it. The charging handle whacked me a couple times, that was annoying, but the gun kept running. The recoil and stay on target with run and gun was unreal. It just stayed there, right on target, for follow-up shots. Better than most any 5.56 I recall ever running, it just stayed on target. Maybe my MK18 competes, I didn't bring it today, but I was pretty wow'ed by that SCAR once you go afoot with it. #2 The RDB, with gas tuned, did pretty decent, but it was a slower soft-recoil, than the SCAR (if that makes any sense), meaning it's not a snap back on target, but more of a soft move.. and OK, now we're ready to shoot again (you'd have to run a soft-tuned RDB to get it). #3 the M4 is always an old favorite, but this one was a carbine gas, and bit over-gassed at that - so it was notably more jumpy than I felt it should have been. ( I also ran a Stribog SP9A3, and rank that one maybe as fun or more fun as the SCAR, but that's comparing a 9mm to a 5.56). But back to the SCAR. Um... maybe I'll just talk less shit about that gun, cause that was one fun reliable accurate pleasant controllable gun to run, I can't deny. It's big. And, well It ... uh, well it got hot, so yea. it gets hot... when you run the shit out if it. I guess there we go, it can get hot. (seriously, that long skinny barrel does get a bit smoking hot, don't grab that) I’m glad you did a revisit and enjoyed it. My 16S is great, stupid reliable and more accurate than it has any right to be. Everyone loves shooting it. That said, the 17S is the premier “battle rifle” of the world, nothing comes close to it when using it as designed. I look at the 17S like a 21st century FAL except it’s got a western civilization price tag… that’s well worth it. Again, JMO. |
You see that head come apart?
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Originally Posted By Flevvy: If you absolutely have to get a SCAR, the 17 makes more sense than the 16 and 15. They're both very mid guns, but the 17 does have some benefits over other 7.62 autoloading platforms to include weight and recoil. The 16 doesn't make any sense unless you desperately want a more expensive 5.56 dispenser. Mostly this but over the last few years you can now choose the B&T and H&K flavors to launch expensive ammo downrange. They both cost more, but they seem like more substantial guns too. I got my SCAR17 before either of those. If I had to buy a higher end 308 right now, I would probably go B&T. |
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Originally Posted By Citizen904: The Scar has a unique recoil impulse that makes it super enjoyable to shoot vs almost any other 5.56 rifle. The recoil impulse is funky because of the gigantic bolt carrier with a lot of reciprocating mass above the centerline of the bore. In addition to the moment arm this creates, it also has a bizarre forward stroke “contrecoup” recoil impulse. Split times are absolutely longer than with a high quality contemporary AR15. I really like my SCAR16 10.5” SBR. It’s an interesting rifle and I’ve had it for 15 years. But I’d never grab it over a quality AR15. |
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Originally Posted By JoshNC: The recoil impulse is funky because of the gigantic bolt carrier with a lot of reciprocating mass above the centerline of the bore. In addition to the moment arm this creates, it also has a bizarre forward stroke “contrecoup” recoil impulse. Split times are absolutely longer than with a high quality contemporary AR15. I really like my SCAR16 10.5” SBR. It’s an interesting rifle and I’ve had it for 15 years. But I’d never grab it over a quality AR15. Sold my 16 just because of the recoil impulse. Absolutely hated it. |
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Originally Posted By JoshNC: The recoil impulse is funky because of the gigantic bolt carrier with a lot of reciprocating mass above the centerline of the bore. In addition to the moment arm this creates, it also has a bizarre forward stroke “contrecoup” recoil impulse. Split times are absolutely longer than with a high quality contemporary AR15. I really like my SCAR16 10.5” SBR. It’s an interesting rifle and I’ve had it for 15 years. But I’d never grab it over a quality AR15. Agreed. Both the 16 and 17 shoot quite soft, they’re pleasant in that regard. But there’s a very distinct, AK-like feeling to the recoil impulse. You can really feel that carrier reciprocating in the receiver even though it isn’t violent or punchy. |
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I have three SCAR 16s and one SCAR 17. I wanted them, so I bought them. If they were $1500 everyone would have them, it's the price that keeps most away. You gotta pay to play. Two of my 16s are SBRd with 10in barrels and AAC m4-2000 cans. My 17 is stock length with a Surefire RC2, but I have a 13in barrel waiting in the wings. I've had no issues running them suppressed with the stock settings. Everyone loves to cry warranty, well if by chance something happened I would fix it myself. It's not rocket science. Short of the receiver blowing up everything is replaceable. I like the factory stock, before I thought it was ugly but it has grown on me. I have a few spares just in case, but so far entirely unneeded. I think they are a blast, I still love my ARs but wanted something more exotic. When anyone comes over to shoot, the SCAR is 9 times out of 10 the rifle they want to try. They are battle proven guns, facts. The same reason everyone doesn't own a KAC is the same for a SCAR. But they will gladly own 10 PSAs or Andersons. |
| I love the scar! I have one of these 1st 17s they released. It was light , innovative, way more accurate than it should be and very reliable over the 7000rds I owned it. That said the U.S. made SCAR isn’t a Belgian made SCAR “ESPECIALLY” when it comes to barrel quality (rougher finishing in the barrel and the chrome starts chipping way too early). Also the policy of voiding the warranty for removing the MD & using a Can is ridiculous in this day and age. Lastly the scar is nearly 20 years old now with little improvement. Being made in the U.S. now it should cost less by passing import cost but It literally cost $1000 more than a Belgian made scar did 10 years ago. So is it worth it? Maybe for you but not really for me… |
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Originally Posted By Bret: You could make that same argument regarding most military style semiautomatic rifles. Originally Posted By Bret: Originally Posted By Genin: Interesting rifle, but it is too expensive for what it is. I would rather buy two good AR15's for that kind of money. You could make that same argument regarding most military style semiautomatic rifles. Realistically, I think the latest HK MR556A4 is the only one that sits in that bracket with the SCAR. Honestly, I think the 416/MR556 is a better gun at the price than the SCAR. HK is at least going back and updating the 416 over the years. Still a huge number of the parts made in Germany as well. Plus with the BRN-4 there’s a pretty good aftermarket for it. We got the NRCH for the SCAR after almost 20 years and it’s entirely made in the US now, where it has only gotten far more expensive.  Most of the other guns with military pedigrees like the Bren 805/2, Hellion/VHS-2, Tavor, Carmel, AUG, etc all bounce around the $1200 - $2000 range. That’s pretty on par with a high-end AR like BCM, FN, Colt, Geissele, or DD. (Or whatever your boutique of choice is…) I’ve really wanted a SCAR-17S but I’ve had trouble justifying the cost. I think I’d rather have a Tavor 7 and a para FAL than a single SCAR, which is about the same cost. (And I did make that choice, though with three FALs to go with the T7) |
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Originally Posted By lazyengineer: donno - but if you Google it: Basically, most of the failures were shitty magazine failures, and there is some question on if this were tenderly loved SCAR's vs Beater M4's - with shitty magazines. How much is true? Beats me, but in general the M4 is a good bit more reliable than those test statistics indicate. [SNIP] . Well, I wasn't there so I don't know, but the claim that the test was "Rigged" to favor the SCAR seems kind of biased at best. 1) Assume the M4 was using bad magazines - what magazines were they, and were they that bad? 2) Assuming that the M4s being used were "Beaters" but the claim isn't really that - it's more that they weren't specially prepared for the as the SCAR supposedly was. It's possible they were brand-new or lightly used. It's also possible that they had old worn-out rifles, but that feels like "Assuming the worst". Given what I know about government tests, I find it hard to accept that the test was so shoddily administered, unless there was a General somewhere getting big kickbacks from FN. |
Atypical Millennial
Is the SCAR worth buying in 2025? (Page 2 of 2)
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