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Posted: 9/5/2023 3:08:00 AM EDT
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When we were doing our project, I looked at all kinds of RSCs and "safes," and settled on an Untouchable from Superior Safe Co. It had impressive bolt works with 1/2" plate in the door, 1/4" everywhere else, and multiple relockers. It weighed 1,700lbs empty. Superior has recently dropped the Untouchable from its lineup. Not only that, but their next two lines of RSCs, the Supreme and Master series have been cheapened up. The Supreme had a 3/8" plate door and 3/16" everywhere else, now it's 1/4" plate in the door and 1/8" everywhere else while the master had a 1/4" plate door with 10 gauge body and now it's got 3/16" plate in the door. On top of that, the Untouchable, the Supreme, and the Master Series RSCs were all made in the USA, now only the Supreme is made here. If you didn't know they cheapened them up and just went with one of these because of what they had been for years, you'd be getting less of an RSC than someone who bought one just a couple years ago. Very disappointing, Superior. |
Grandfathering weapons only puts off until tomorrow what tyranny cannot accomplish today.
The only people made safer by gun control are criminals and tyrants.
The only people made safer by gun control are criminals and tyrants.
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Sounds like you got a sturdy safe. Perhaps they are chasing money and the buyers of their safes want that level of quality/protection for the dollars they want to spend. Not everyone wants to pay for a 1700lb safe. I would think the safe mfg business is a tough profit market to stay in business. |
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Originally Posted By belted_guns: Sounds like you got a sturdy safe. Perhaps they are chasing money and the buyers of their safes want that level of quality/protection for the dollars they want to spend. Not everyone wants to pay for a 1700lb safe. I would think the safe mfg business is a tough profit market to stay in business. The issue here is they have marketed specific models matched to certain specs and they had five different models as part of their catalog (Ironside, Regal, Master, Supreme, Untouchable). The Ironside was their low end RSC, followed by the Regal and on up to the top end with the Untouchable. They already had every price point covered, there was no need to make a cheaper safe because they already had cheaper ones. What they did was take the reputations each of those models had and leverage the name while essentially gutting the product. It'd be like going to buy a Ford F-250 that looks just like they always have, but the fine print says their GVWR isn't 10,000lbs anymore, but only 8,000lbs. Well, then it's not what an F-250 always was. Bad move by Superior. It's a shame, too, because the top three models (Master, Supreme, and Untouchable) were all pretty darn good RSCs/safes, all made in America, and the Untouchable really kicked ass. |
Grandfathering weapons only puts off until tomorrow what tyranny cannot accomplish today.
The only people made safer by gun control are criminals and tyrants.
The only people made safer by gun control are criminals and tyrants.
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Originally Posted By alpha0815: Unfortunately, I can no longer recommend Liberty Safes either. Who else is there? Yeah, Liberty really screwed the pooch on that one. |
Grandfathering weapons only puts off until tomorrow what tyranny cannot accomplish today.
The only people made safer by gun control are criminals and tyrants.
The only people made safer by gun control are criminals and tyrants.
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If I was in the market for another new safe/RSC, it'd be an AMSEC and most likely a BFII or just suck it up and get a TL rated safe. But a BFII is a heck of an RSC. |
Grandfathering weapons only puts off until tomorrow what tyranny cannot accomplish today.
The only people made safer by gun control are criminals and tyrants.
The only people made safer by gun control are criminals and tyrants.
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Originally Posted By Wobblin-Goblin: If I was in the market for another new safe/RSC, it'd be an AMSEC and most likely a BFII or just suck it up and get a TL rated safe. But a BFII is a heck of an RSC. The BF II is RSC II, which is essentially a TL-10 test. Same tools, 2 men, unlimited planning time, access to the blueprints. Only difference is they only have 10 minutes of active "attack" time instead of 15. And the RSC II test is on every side, the TL-15 and TL-30 tests are just on the door. So an RSC II safe might be better than an TL-15 if you aren't able to block all 5 sides of the BL-15 safe. |
*Specifically
However, it's not the odds that make me carry. It's the stakes. - Jayne_Cobb
Dremel - the answer to, and cause of, most of gunsmithing's problems.
However, it's not the odds that make me carry. It's the stakes. - Jayne_Cobb
Dremel - the answer to, and cause of, most of gunsmithing's problems.
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Originally Posted By Marquar: The BF II is RSC II, which is essentially a TL-10 test. Same tools, 2 men, unlimited planning time, access to the blueprints. Only difference is they only have 10 minutes of active "attack" time instead of 15. And the RSC II test is on every side, the TL-15 and TL-30 tests are just on the door. So an RSC II safe might be better than an TL-15 if you aren't able to block all 5 sides of the BL-15 safe. Exactly. It's a beast of an RSC. You might as well call it a legit "safe." |
Grandfathering weapons only puts off until tomorrow what tyranny cannot accomplish today.
The only people made safer by gun control are criminals and tyrants.
The only people made safer by gun control are criminals and tyrants.
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Originally Posted By icecold1: thats why they make tl-30x6 safes, i love my amsec it's built like a brick shit house Are you saying you have an Amsec TL-30x6...or that you have an Amsec RSC that you like? Yes, a TL-30x6 is the shit, but an Amsec BFII is probably all anyone would ever need if you also have some type of alarm system that limits time. Put that BFII in a concrete cubbie and chances are it'll never be breached. |
Grandfathering weapons only puts off until tomorrow what tyranny cannot accomplish today.
The only people made safer by gun control are criminals and tyrants.
The only people made safer by gun control are criminals and tyrants.
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I don't have one but I still say the Fort Knox Spartan is a good value for the money. They're fairly no frills in terms of paint and finish. Bodies are 3/16" and doors are 3/8 plate. I think they're essentially a Sturdy in terms of steel but with an actual RSC rating for whatever that's worth. The safes also use a more tried and true gypsum board fire lining instead of the Sturdy fiberglass blanket. Again for whatever that's worth. It sucks that Superior is dropping the Untouchable but I'd say it isn't a decision the company has taken lightly. With the price of the bigger Superiors at $10,000 or so I can't imagine these safes are selling well. Plus I'd guess few shops can afford to buy these and sit them in inventory. I think this speaks to a larger issue of increasing prices for materials and overall inflation. |
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I know this is an old thread, but I'm in the market for a safe and was looking at Superior. The Untouchable is still being made. Untouchable |
Make crime illegal
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Originally Posted By IDidThat: I know this is an old thread, but I'm in the market for a safe and was looking at Superior. The Untouchable is still being made. Untouchable They must have reversed course, thankfully. Although I will say this: any safe or RSC that is steel only is a much easier target now with metal cutting skill saws. Six to ten years ago, the Untouchable was way up there in terms of security, now, even with 1/2" steel plate in the door...not so much. All these companies are going to have to start including some sort of concrete mixture sandwiched in between layers of steel. Either that, or add AR500. |
Grandfathering weapons only puts off until tomorrow what tyranny cannot accomplish today.
The only people made safer by gun control are criminals and tyrants.
The only people made safer by gun control are criminals and tyrants.
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Originally Posted By MartinHewitt: For someone wanting a safe with more security there are TL-15, TL-30, TL-15x6, TL-30x6, ... rated safes on the marked by several companies. Unfortunately the cost more and weigh more, which is nothing most buyers want. We're at the point where TLs are pretty much mandatory if you want a real barrier. Steel alone (aside from AR) just doesn't provide the protection anymore (with the tools that are out there now). I know a few people who put stout RSCs like the Untouchable in a concrete cubbie with only the door exposed. Again, six or seven years ago that was a massive amount of protection for a residential application. Nowadays a metal cutting skill saw looks a that and chuckles. It's a new world and safe/RSC manufacturers have to change. |
Grandfathering weapons only puts off until tomorrow what tyranny cannot accomplish today.
The only people made safer by gun control are criminals and tyrants.
The only people made safer by gun control are criminals and tyrants.
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Originally Posted By Wobblin-Goblin: We're at the point where TLs are pretty much mandatory if you want a real barrier. Steel alone (aside from AR) just doesn't provide the protection anymore (with the tools that are out there now). I know a few people who put stout RSCs like the Untouchable in a concrete cubbie with only the door exposed. Again, six or seven years ago that was a massive amount of protection for a residential application. Nowadays a metal cutting skill saw looks a that and chuckles. It's a new world and safe/RSC manufacturers have to change. AMSEC came out with updated RSC specs a few years ago. The idea was to create some testing standards that were between the RSC and TL levels. They even made safes to this new level. Maybe they still do. No one else has started making safes to the higher RSC standards. I asked one of the Fort Knox sales guys about this a few years ago. He said there just wasn't a consumer demand. |
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Originally Posted By Melvin_Johnson: AMSEC came out with updated RSC specs a few years ago. The idea was to create some testing standards that were between the RSC and TL levels. They even made safes to this new level. Maybe they still do. No one else has started making safes to the higher RSC standards. I asked one of the Fort Knox sales guys about this a few years ago. He said there just wasn't a consumer demand. You would be referring to the BFII, which was discussed earlier in this thread. It's basically a TL-10, but still an RSC. |
Grandfathering weapons only puts off until tomorrow what tyranny cannot accomplish today.
The only people made safer by gun control are criminals and tyrants.
The only people made safer by gun control are criminals and tyrants.
|
Originally Posted By MartinHewitt: For someone wanting a safe with more security there are TL-15, TL-30, TL-15x6, TL-30x6, ... rated safes on the marked by several companies. Unfortunately the cost more and weigh more, which is nothing most buyers want. Weigh more, yes. But often times cost so much less. These gun safe prices have gone insane. I can buy the biggest, baddest TL30 safe for $7500 out the door refurbished from World Wide Safes. And that included delivery. I’m never buying another “gun” safe again. Gun owners just like to spend too much money. |
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Originally Posted By Melvin_Johnson: AMSEC came out with updated RSC specs a few years ago. The idea was to create some testing standards that were between the RSC and TL levels. They even made safes to this new level. Maybe they still do. No one else has started making safes to the higher RSC standards. I asked one of the Fort Knox sales guys about this a few years ago. He said there just wasn't a consumer demand. Originally Posted By Melvin_Johnson: Originally Posted By Wobblin-Goblin: We're at the point where TLs are pretty much mandatory if you want a real barrier. Steel alone (aside from AR) just doesn't provide the protection anymore (with the tools that are out there now). I know a few people who put stout RSCs like the Untouchable in a concrete cubbie with only the door exposed. Again, six or seven years ago that was a massive amount of protection for a residential application. Nowadays a metal cutting skill saw looks a that and chuckles. It's a new world and safe/RSC manufacturers have to change. AMSEC came out with updated RSC specs a few years ago. The idea was to create some testing standards that were between the RSC and TL levels. They even made safes to this new level. Maybe they still do. No one else has started making safes to the higher RSC standards. I asked one of the Fort Knox sales guys about this a few years ago. He said there just wasn't a consumer demand. Most gun owners choose to put their collection in cheap metal boxes. That’s why there is no demand. I buy used TL rated safes and they are so much cheaper than gun safes. Gun safes are a rip off scam. Buy a used TL rated safe for a fraction of the price of a new Amsec BFX. |
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