I recently got my tax stamp for a select fire AUG I bought early in 2013.  It was converted by Qualified Mfg.  I was wondering if anyone can explain to me how folks typically did those conversions.  Besides the sear they made, installed and registered, what else was typically done and how can I tell if it was done to my gun?  My stock is a SA stock, not select fire.  I see all these parts on Pete Athen’s web site for full auto, but I have no idea if any of them were installed, and which ones are necessary besides the anti-bounce rods.  Unfortunately the previous owner, who was the original owner, passed away and the gun was sold by his estate in an auction so I have been unable to get any information along with the gun.

Any/all information appreciated.

I will preface by stating I am not an Aug expert by any means.  My knowledge is what I have picked up from owning semi Augs and my search and purchase of a Qualified Aug Sear, so some of my  knowledge is theoretical based on research and conversations with folks who know a lot more Augs and conversions that I do vs. me having actual hands experience on all these different types of conversions.

That said there are basically four types of transferable Aug conversions but will preface that discussion with the three primary components of the Aug that interrelate that make the firearms a machinegun or not.

1.The receiver itself.  A semi Aug and Full auto Aug receiver are very similar.  The primary difference is the stock latch width.  This is the notch in the receiver that allows the stock to latch onto the receiver. The full auto guns the notch is wider and the semi auto guns the notch is smaller.   This difference precludes the installation of the full auto stock onto the semi auto receiver as the  stock latch won't engage.
2.The Stock.  The Full auto stock not only has the wider latch but also will allow the installation of the full auto hammer pack.  The Semi Auto stock has protrusions that prevent the installation of a full auto hammer pack.
3.The Hammer Pack.  The Full Auto hammer pack has no stock protrusion cutouts.  The semi auto hammer pack has these notches that conveniently are where the factory full auto sear pin hole is located.  This is similar to HK where the semi receiver shelf is designed to prevent in the installation of a full auto trigger pack and the cutouts are designed to remove the location of a factory full auto sear catch/trip.

True factory machinegun spec registered receivers:

These receivers are ones that have had their narrow semi-auto stock latch milled to accept a full auto stock and hence a full auto hammer pack.  These are basically former semi auto receivers that now accept all factory full auto Aug parts.  There are not many of these around. My understanding is that Augs were in the US for not a whole lot of years prior to 86 and that the ATF frowned upon this conversion practice as well.  Basically, while not illegal to perform a conversion in this manner to do this required essentially the cannibalization of a Post-68 full auto dealer import sample Aug.  The same as today if somebody imports/brings in a 10.5 HK 416, strips it of parts and puts in on a MR556 lower registered on a F2 as a SBR.  The US wasn’t awash in full auto Aug parts so making a true machinegun spec Aug required in many cases stripping an imported dealer sample of all its parts to make an Aug that could then go to a civilian and there were only so many full Auto factory Augs to strip for parts without arousing the ire of the BATF.

The plus is these conversions take all full auto parts and are identical mechanically to a factory Aug,  similar to a double push pin MP5/HK94 conversion.  The downside is that you are stuck with an A1 style Aug receiver and that the wear and tear goes onto the receiver itself like any registered receiver.

Registered Receiver Conversions with non-factory parts:

These are units where the registered component is an unmodified semi auto receiver but use some combination of unregistered conversion parts (usually hammerpack mods with some type of sear) to enable full auto fire using the Semi Receiver and Stock

These seem to be pretty common as conversions go.  The downside is there is some mystery of parts being used to make the magic happen, some of which may not be legal to replace as they are unregistered conversion parts unto themselves.   Trigger pull may be really poor on these guns and they may also use a proprietary full auto cocking piece trip on the bolt.  You are also stuck with an A1 style Aug as well.   I personally would shy away from these guns or at least inspect the mechanics of how they were produced prior to purchasing.

Registered Hammer Packs:

These are full auto hammer packs that have been modded to fit inside a semi-auto stock.   I have only read/heard about these but have never actually seen one.  I am not sure how they notch the full auto hammer pack to clear the protrusions in a semi-auto stock and still keep the auto sear pin hole intact.  It looks to me like if you make a semi auto notch to match the semi hammerpack you would lose the sear pin hole or it is  really really close like a notched HK full auto trigger pack.

Semi Pack:  (You can see the sear block and relief notches in the front of the pack)



Full Auto 3rd Pack:  (You can see the sear pin hole and sear where the relief in the semi auto pack is)



Pros are that these could be moved to a modern A2 or A3 Aug but also still take all full auto internals.

I don’t see any real downside and would have bought one if I could have found one for sale.

Registered Sears.

These were mainly made by Fleming and Qualified with a lot of them being installed into hosts by FJ Volmer Co. These are conversion sears that will fit in a semi-auto pack once you prep the pack via a Mill and Drill operation (similar to an HK Sear going into a HK Semi Auto Pack as its not drop in)    

The upside is that the Fleming and Qualified the sears are made of steel and should last a lifetime and the sear and modded hammer pack can move into a modern A2 or A3 Aug.

The downside of the sears is that the fire control geometry in the pack is different and as a result the trigger pull for full auto (since Augs are light pull semi / Hard pull full) can be really heavy.  The sears being steel (vs. polymer like the OEM sears) can also tear up the OEM plastic full auto cocking pieces on the bolt carrier.   The cocking pieces are easily replaceable as they wear but a metal conversion sear vs. a plastic trip accelerates wear vs. the polymer sear against a polymer cocking piece in the factory setup.

Since I had not seen any registered hammer packs for sale in recent memory, I ended up with a Qualified Sear purchase as I ultimately wanted to end up with a modern A3 Aug and am personally more of a "shooter" than a "purist collector".

In regards to your sear gun you can't use a full auto stock as the sear is meant for a semi auto pack which goes in a semi auto stock which fits a semi-auto receiver.  Your semi receiver wont fit in a full auto stock without modifying the receiver or stock which is a no/no post 86.  With the Aug a partial trigger pull (first stage) is semi auto and a full pull back trigger (second stage) is full auto or burst (if the burst pack is installed and set to burst).  You will want to make sure you have the anti-bounce rods installed in the bolt carrier, a spring on the firing pin if not present, that the full auto cocking piece on the bolt carrier  isn’t chewed up.  Other than that it should function full auto if you pull the trigger back all the way to the second stage.  However, just be aware that with a conversion sear the trigger pull all the way back to the second stage may be really heavy.

Hope this helps and if you have any other questions just let me know and I would be more than happy to help.

Thanks for this post! Being somewhat of a Bullpup Addict, this was very informative for me.

To the OP: You might also post this over in the Bullpup Forum. There's a lot of knowledgeable folks over there that might also be able to help, although it seems like this post pretty much covers it.

I think you may have become one, in spite of yourself.

Excellent post!  I had always wondered about the AUG conversions, but there is so little information circulating about them.  I learned a lot, and I appreciate you sharing this information.

Glad you found it informative.  The reason I wouldn't call myself an expert is that a lot of my knowledge is research and conversation based (i.e. I have never held/inspected/shot a "registered hammer pack" or a true "factory spec" conversion receiver in person).  It's not like I have a representative example in my safe that I can pull out and take measurements on or answer really details specific questions.  So if somebody was to say "hey a true mil spec factory full auto Aug receiver conversion requires the catch slot mod as well as a nub ground off to fit a full auto stock"  I couldn't really otherwise as I don't own one.

HKs and Sears,  M16s and conversions, FNCs and Sears, Uzis, AC556s, M60s, MACs, AKs, etc. I all own at least one or more version of that I shoot/field strip/ & clean on a regular basis, so I would consider myself much more versed in and if needed could pull one out of my safe and measure the sear pin hole location if somebody needed it.  

The Aug and all its different conversions I only own an Aug Sear in a semi Hammer Pack.    However, prior to buying an Aug I spent a lot of time researching all the different types of conversions and have some hands on time with sear based hammer packs and non factory spec conversion registered receivers.  I am merely passing on the hours/days of research I did prior to making a decision and purchase last year condensed into an easy to read bite sized synopsis as I was stuck on a boring con call at work today and as you mentioned Aug info isn't real easy to come across.

I originally caught the Aug bug when I got a tour of the MSAR plant when they were up in Bradford PA. and the owner had a bunch of Aug style guns and transferable sear hammer packs on the wall in his "gun room".  Never realized there were Aug sears before that and the A1 Augs never were a big drawn for me, but the A2 or A3 with a sear just got stuck in my head as a have to have.

Dude, I love you.  Seriously.  None of that puppy love crap either.

I looked at a FA AUG a while back, but $3,000 was just too much money.

The MSAR gun room was pretty impressive, wasn't it? Wish I had bought more from them  I had the money, but wanted ammo for the 60 I had just got. Guess I'll have to be happy with the MP5K with sear I got for $14,500. They had six or seven of them.

Yes it was.....  I remember almost one whole wall of HKs and pretty much everything was negotiable for sale at really good pricing. Lots of transferables.   Some full auto postie FN belt feds as well.  Still the only FN Mark 48 I have ever seen or held in person. I took one of the Microtech integrally suppressed full auto Norrell 22s out back and shot it with Tony behind the building.  If I hadn't just bought a M60E4 from them I would have tried to get that 10/22 to come home with me. (well not physically but a F4 would have).  Looking back I should have put an Aug pack, that Norrell, and maybe a nice HK MP5/10 host on a credit card.

can this be tacked somewhere please.

Thank you for your post.

+1

The above post from "jbntex." was very good and imformative and I especially like the reference pics.  I just wanted to add that I believe a few points may be incorrect though?  A full auto stock and bolt carrier WILL fit on a semi auto receiver without any modificatons to receiver or stock.  Also, of course a semi-auto trigger pack WILL fit in a full auto stock with no modifications BUT a full auto trigger pack will not fit in a semi auto stock since the semi stock is the one that has the blocking bars.

The advantage to being able to use a full auto stock and bolt carrier is that the recoil rods and springs are bigger / heavier and also contain the anti bouce feature for safe long full auto fire.  Without this feature there is a possibility of rifle having impropper timming / cycling on sustained full auto fire and damaging the gun and possibly the shooter.   Using a full auto stock in no way will convert a semi rifle to full auto since this feature comes from the sear and trip on bolt carrier.

Pete Athens is "the man" when it comes to AUG knowlege.  He can be found @ PJS investments and sells parts / rifles on his website.  Check out his website or chat with him if you have more questions.  He also has some 9MM conversion kits coming in!

I am in no way an AUG expert myself but like above poster have been doing some research.   The AUG is a great rifle and I have grown to love mine in a short amount of time.  Great fun to shoot, super easy to disasemble and work on or change configerations, and very accurate rifle as well.  I have a Qualified sear that I have been very please with purchasing.

As always, YMMV and just trying to add what I have learned as well.  Good luck to origional poster!

I am pretty sure a semi auto receiver will not fit and function in a full auto stock.  The stock cross latch (the main part that holds the receiver in the stock) is different between the full auto stock and the semi auto stock.  There is a coresponding "notch/slot" on the rear lower portion Aug Receiver.  See pic below, ignore the MSAR receiver on top but both have the same slot milled on the rear underside of the receiver.



The full auto receiver this "notch/slot" is wider by a couple milimeters than the semi receiver.  So while the semi receiver will drop into the full auto stock you can't actually lock the reciever into the stock as the latch on the full auto stock is too wide to engage the narrow slot on the semi receiver.  Vis-Versa you can put a full auto receiver in a semi auto stock but then you get some slop or play in the interface as the more narrow semi auto stock latch is smaller than the slot/notch on the full auto spec receiver.  The gun will run as the recoil rod spring pressure keeps the receiver pushed forward on the stock latch, but if you pull back on the receiver it will then move inside the stock.

If you didnt have to modify a semi auto receiver to fit into a full auto stock than converting a Semi Aug to full auto would require nothing more than just moving the semi receiver to the full auto stock (with its full auto hammerpack) and adding the full auto cocking piece to the bolt carrier.    In order to make a semi receiver fit a full auto stock, the slot latch slot on the semi receiver has to be milled slightly wider...which is the making of an Aug Machinegun receiver (similar to drilling the auto sear pin hole on an AR lower).  Alternativey you could also modify the full auto stock latch cross piece to become more narrow so as to fit a semi receiver...which is also making a machinegun conversion part.

Older Augs used to also have a difference stock guide rods (the parts that protrude from the reciever and engage the springs in the bolt carrier).  On the older full auto stock  the guide rods in the stock were larger. So if you put an older gen semi auto carrier into a full auto stock the guide rods in the full auto stock couldnt slide into or engage the springs in the carrier rods.  

Pic between old Full Auto and Old Semi Auto BCGs with the guide rod aperature opening difference.



Now a days all Augs use the narrow stock guide rods in the stock and the new gen full auto bolt carrier have the narrow guide rod openings.

The only thing that needs to be added to a semi auto bolt carrier to make it function in full auto is the full auto cocking piece which is a small piece of plastic and which serves as the trip on to the sear in the hammer pack.  Even if you dont have the anti bounce rods installed it will still run full auto but reliability and/or OOB denontation is a higher probability.

Difference on the cocking piece where you can see the trip on the full auto one on the right.

Once again awesome post with the pics and information!   I just wanted to say again that a semi receiver will fit perfectly on the auto stock with the bigger recoil rods with no mods.  I know it seems like it wouldn't work cause the latch is slightly wider but it will lock in nice and secure with a push of the thumb.  Of course to do this you would need the bolt carrier with the bigger holes.  Semi trigger pack fits perfectly as well.

The only thing I don't know is if there is a huge advantage to running the larger recoil rods over the smaller ones with anti bounce installed?  Obviously the larger ones will give you the proper full auto configuration as factory designed and seems it would be safer but I don't know if that's reality.  If anyone has info related to this I would love to hear it?

Thanks again for all the info and pics!

Is your experience based off your personal conversion Aug where the semi receiver is now installed in a full auto stock with the larger old style full-auto guide rods?  

The only reason I ask that is it is a couple mm difference between the stock latches widths and the fit is pretty precise, so I am not sure how a metal latch that is a couple mm bigger would fit through a couple mm smaller slot on a semi receiver.  The only reason I could think why your combo fits is your personal full auto stock may have its cross latch modified back to semi spec (which a not unheard of modification on some Aug conversions so people could run the large guide rods and older style full auto carriers with their semi receiver based conversions).  

Here is a pic my semi latch in a semi receiver. There is virtually no room for even a 1mm bigger latch much less a 3mm wider auto stock latch.



Only way I can explain how your  full auto Aug stock will fit your semi receiver is if you took a micrometer or ruler to your full auto stock's latch to confirm if it is smaller semi spec or the larger full auto spec and report back on it's size.

I am actually really curious how this is physically working on your gun (and I don't own a full auto stock to measure), as this is the first I have ever heard of an unmodified semi receiver fitting an unmodified full auto stock as that is the whole basis to prevent a "drop in" conversion of a semi receiver utilizing unregulated off the shelf parts (stock, hammerpack, & bolt carrier).

+1 on this.  I was hoping Fast50 would have followed up on this by now, seeing as it has been over a week.  I'd love to see some pictures and exact measurements on this because it is totally contrary to everything I've read.  As someone who is about to dump some more coin into upgrading my Qualified sear host, the possibility of a full auto stock actually working without making illegal modifications is very intriguing.  But before I go and dump money on this, I'd like to be convinced it will actually work as all of the evidence I've ever seen to date points to the fact that it will not work (except under the circumstances which jbntex has identified that were done during the FA conversion).

Thanks again to jbntex for a great write up and followup, and thanks in advance to Fast50 for following up on your statements with some pictures/measurements!

Sorry,  but have been soaking up some sun in a much warmer climate for some time.   I can't get measurements for you but would suggests if you still have doubts to give Pete @ PJS investments a call and discuss with him.   I'm sure he would be willing to help with some great info and probably even has the parts to sell if you so wish.   Good luck and keep the great AUG info coming!

I hate to be wrong but after looking at pics of fa stocks believe you may be right about the full auto latch being too wide.   The rifle I saw in the past may have had the bigger rods installed in a semi stock?   I just remembered it ran the fa bolt carrier with large recoil rods.   I did say I wasn't an AUG expert by any means and am new to the platform.  Sorry for any confusion I caused and good luck with your AUG!   Still looking forward to any new info you guys find out so keep it coming.

What you saw may very well have been a semi conversion gun running the full auto stock with the larger rods and older style full auto bolt carrier.   Many conversions were done this way by either slightly milled the latch groove on the receiver or altering the stock latch in the full stock to fit the semi receiver.  Nowadays the modern full auto stocks use the narrow guide rods and the semi and full auto bolt carriers are identical except for the inclusion of the full auto cocking piece and the anti bounce rods installed (both of which can be dropped into a modern A3 style semi bolt carrier)

Ideally you just shouldn't find a true removable/unmarried "sear" gun using a full auto stock with the larger rods as that means something else has been modified (either the receiver or the stock latch) which makes either the receiver now true a machinegun spec receiver  or the modified latch an unregistered conversion part into itself which means the whole kit (receiver/stock/sear)  is all permanently married together (Similar to DIAS married to a Registered Receiver in an AR platform on an HK Registered Receiver that mechanically uses a married conversion sear)

I have some more information I may get around to posting.

Some interesting stuff...

Bump/tag

can someone help me please? I have a Quality sear in an A3 Aug, and it does not cycle correctly in full auto. What exactly do I need to do to make this work correctly?

Thank you!

I have the exact same setup. (assuming you mean "Qualified Mfg" sear)

Can you give us some more details on what is happening and your setup.

Setup Questions:

1.  Did you put a factory full auto cocking piece on the carrier?
2.  If you installed a full full auto cocking piece was it properly modded to clear conversion sear legs so the timing is correct?
3. Did you install the anti-bounce rods and anti-bounce rod springs in the carrier?
4. Were the anti-bounce rods properly shorted and the factory recoil springs also properly shortened?

Function Questions:

1. Does the gun fire in semi auto properly with the conversion pack installed
2. Will the gun fire on full auto at all with the conversion pack installed?  i.e. do you get bursts or no fire at all
3. If it doesn't fire on full auto at all, does the hammer drop?  Do you have a light firing ping indention on the unfired round?
4. If you remove the pack from the gun and manually push the trigger slide back all the way with a punch of screwdriver, does the semi disconnector properly cam out of the way of the hammer?

If you can give me some more details I can probably help you out.

Sorry, I did mean Qualified Sear.
I will have to go from memory because I only got to play with it a few months ago once. Expecting the stamp in the next 30-60 days.
Setup Questions:

1. Did you put a factory full auto cocking piece on the carrier?

I don't think it was factory, because it was metal...if it is what I think you mean.

2. If you installed a full full auto cocking piece was it properly modded to clear conversion sear legs so the timing is correct?
3. Did you install the anti-bounce rods and anti-bounce rod springs in the carrier? Definitely not.
All I did was put the pack in, which did not just slip in.
4. Were the anti-bounce rods properly shorted and the factory recoil springs also properly shortened?
No

Function Questions:

1. Does the gun fire in semi auto properly with the conversion pack installed
I only tried to attempt full auto
2. Will the gun fire on full auto at all with the conversion pack installed? i.e. do you get bursts or no fire at all
When it worked, I would get mostly bursts, but occasional mag dump.
3. If it doesn't fire on full auto at all, does the hammer drop? Do you have a light firing ping indention on the unfired round?
This was the ususally the issue. It was like the bolt did not close fully, but if I retracted it a bit and let it go again it would. Then it would usually fire F/A to some degeree.
4. If you remove the pack from the gun and manually push the trigger slide back all the way with a punch of screwdriver, does the semi disconnector properly cam out of the way of the hammer?
This I will have to try when I get it.

For what it is worth, it had the same issues in the A1 host it was in previously, but I also know nothing was ever done to it either.


Thank you!!

OK..... it sounds like there are a bunch of issues that need to be resolved before you can safely use your Qualified Sear converted hammer pack in the Steyr A3.  

If you don't get everything set up properly you can damage the sear, the hammer pack the sear is installed in, the host, and potentially yourself.

At a high level you have two options.

1.  Locate all the necessary parts yourself and perform all the modifications/testing.

2.  Send the host gun, the sear + hammerpack, and money to Pete Athens  (PJ Steyr AUG) and let him do all the work.   On thing to note is that Pete is out of a lot of the parts he needs to set up guns conversion hosts properly and has been for some time so you may be in for a wait if you ask him to source the parts.  I have been waiting to buy some spare full auto cocking pieces from him for ~ 10 months.  I believe he has the anti-bounce rods and spring though.  Although if you are not mechanically inclined he is great to work with and will set everything up correctly.  The big issue right now is the parts needed he cant get from Steyr.

If you are up for doing the mods yourself  lets assume you are starting with an new in the box Steyr Manufactured A3 AUG.

1.  The Qualified Sear should be metal and if properly installed in the pack it should look like this.

You should be able to push the trigger slide back, watch the disconnector make contact with the steel bushing and be cammed down and out of the way of the hammer disconnector engagement surfaces on the rear of the hammer.  At that point only the conversion sear should be holding the hammer from falling as the trigger slid is moved back and the disconnector is cammed down and out of the way.



2.  You will need a factory full auto cocking piece.  Cocking pieces are going to need to be sourced via a WTB on Subguns and/or Sturm as everybody is out of them as Steyr has not filled any dealer orders for them in a year or more.    Be prepared to pay at least $100 for a full auto cocking piece from a 3rd party to shake one loose.  

The cocking piece is the plastic part that goes on the back of the bolt carrier assembly and which "cocks" the hammer back with each shot.  The cocking piece also holds the firing pin and firing pin spring in place inside the carrier.  There are essentially two types of cocking pieces...semi auto...and full auto. the main difference is that the full auto cocking piece has "ramps" that engage the sear. There are 9MM metal cocking pieces but you don’t want to use a metal 9MM cocking piece

Semi auto on left <---> Full auto on Right

Notice the ramps on the both which "engage" and depress the sear arms.



Now the issue with the Qualified conversion sears is that they are wider then the factory sears.  The ramp on the cocking piece is too narrow and will hit the conversion sear to early.  The flat front part of the cocking piece needs to be milled down and brought into the same angle as the ramped portion so that the sear hits the cocking piece at the right time.  



A lot of less than ideal conversions use a welded on trip extension to the semi auto carrier.  There are also metal factory 9MM cocking pieces but these are pretty rare to come across.  Both of these are not very good options since the metal cocking piece/trip to metal sear contact will chew up your sear over time (vs. chewing up replaceable plastic cocking pieces) and the timing is who knows what.  It sounds like the A1 had some sort of welded ramp on it or maybe a rare factory metal 9MM cocking piece that was potentially causing issues.  Either way you don’t want metal on metal.

3. Now that we have the pack and cocking piece squared away we need to deal with the anti-bounce rods and springs.

These are tungsten rods that go inside the carrier arms and prevent bolt bounce.  Without them you will get erratic burst fire (like you described) and worst case an out of battery detonation, which isn't good for your health since on a bullpup  the "out of battery" happens under your face.

The rods look like this and orient themselves inside the carrier arms as shown below.  The anti bounce rod spring go on the front, the rods in the middle,  the recoil spring on the end, and the recoil spring cap on the very end.

To access the tubes you need to remove the thruster caps on each tube.  You will have to heat them with a torch to break the locktite free.  A vice and wrench are required tools.    Be careful as the spring are under tension and the thruster caps will shoot off once unthreaded  ***EYEPRO IS A MUST***  You don't want to catch a 500 degree heated thruster cap in the eye if one gets away from you.  

Remove the thruster caps and recoil spring.  You will need to trim the recoil spring for spring stacking tolerance as you are now adding a second spring in the tube.  You will also need to cut the tungsten rods approximately 1 to 1.5 inches as the semi auto stock has longer carrier guide pins.  if you don't cut the anti-bounce rods the stackup tolerance is too great inside the tube.  

What happens if you don't trim the rods and spring and use your semi auto stock is that your carrier bottoms out during the recoil stroke on the carrier guide pins/rods in the stock.  The semi auto stock carrier guide pins/rods are longer than the full auto stock variant.  What will happen when putting these extra parts in the carrier and using a semi-auto stock is that all the springs and rods compress and the carrier will bottomed out on the stock carrier guide pins instead of the donut buffers at the base of the pins.   If the carrier continuously bottoms out on the tip of the guide pins vs the buffers, you can quickly damage the springs (recoil and antibounce) from over compression as well as damage your stock as the recoil guide pins are not designed to stop the carriers rearward travel (the buffers at their base are) and you will blow the guide pins out of the stock.

You need to trim, test fit and make sure the carrier can bottom out against the "donut" buffers at the base of the guide pins. If it stops short you need to disassemble and trim either more recoil spring and/or more bounce rod until it does.  Note that the cocking handle will not allow you to pull the carrier al the way to the donut buffers so you will need to push the carrier farther down using a dowel rod with the receiver removed from the stock in order to properly test the full carrier movement.

Once everything fits together properly, clean the thruster caps, and re-locktite them onto the carrier.



Ultimately it sounds like you have a timing issue with whatever metal trip is on the bottom of the A1 carrier and without the anti-bounce rods you are getting carrier bounce where the carrier slightly bounces off the receiver face not allowing a good firing pin strike.

One last tip/trick to installing a full auto conversion pack (since you mentioned the difficulty in installing it ) is that the bolt carrier needs to be locked to the rear.  

On a factory gun the autosear is plastic and more contoured and will more easily “slide under” the cocking piece ramps from the rear.  The Qualified Sears with their sharp edge on the front wont just “slide in” .  You would  really have to mash the pack in to get the sear to depress far enough to clear the trip ramps on the bottom of the carrier.  If the carrier is cocked to the rear, you can angle the pack in easily getting the sear legs under the ramps.  If you notice on the front of the pack is angled up which allows you to insert it at an angle (front of pack angled down)  and it will drop right in and under the cocking piece ramps which are now at the very rear of the receiver.

One optional but highly recommended upgrade is the CQC conversion by Pete/PJ.   It makes an already ridiculously smooth shooting gun on auto even more smooth and enjoyable due to the rebalancing of some forward weight.

Pic of my personal CQC



Good luck with whatever you decide and if you have any other questions just let me know.

You will really enjoy the AUG once you get it all set up and running properly.  It is one of my favorite 5.56 machineguns now and is absolutely bulletproof in terms of reliability.

Wow! That is exactly what I need! Thank you!

Pete shows the Pins and Springs. I will get them ordered today. He shows F/A Bolt Carriers, and other F/A parts....are any of those needed?

I purchased my pack from a friend, so I am going to go to his house this weekend and take pictures.

Have you tried a 9mm setup with your sear?

I very much appreciate your time!

Aaron

The only parts you need if you plan to run with the factory semi-auto stock that comes with your A3 is the anti-bounce rods/springs and the factory full auto cocking piece.   The full auto stock will have the shorter carrier guide rods (so you don't have the stack up issues inside the carrier tubes), but the issue is that your A3 receiver wont fit in a full auto stock as the full auto stock cross slide hatch is too wide.  

So in order to use a full auto stock on an A3 semi receiver,  you would have to modify the full auto stock cross latch to "fit" your narrow semi-auto A3 receiver opening.  I would not be comfortable recommend modding a full auto stock latch to fit a semi receiver from a legal perspective as you have now created a machinegun conversion device as any semi auto receiver will now drop into the modded full auto stock (which also accepts a full auto factory hammer pack).    

The full auto and semi auto carriers are basically the same except for the addition of the anti-bounce rods and full auto cocking piece.  The original full auto carriers had larger guide ping openings as well (to use the original shorter/fatter guide rods in the original style full auto stock) but I have read that Steyr has transitioned everything to the narrow guide rods (although the full auto stock rods are still shorter).  However I have not seen any of the new full auto parts in person to confirm.

From your perspective (using the semi-auto stock that came with your A3) the semi carrier can be brought to full auto spec by adding the correct coking piece and the anti bounce rods.    Buying a full auto carrier from Pete just means you wont have to do those mods.  Its up to you as a new carrier is $700ish dollars or converting yours is $200ish.   I believe Pete is also out of full auto carriers as well per his website last I checked as the price shows "BO" for back-ordered.

I have a 9MM kit but have not used it yet, been sitting in the box for maybe a year.  Only so much time available.   When I talked to Pete he said the anti-bounce rods were in the 9MM carrier already (but I have not taken mine apart to confirm and make sure everything stacks up properly).  You will need a full auto cocking piece as well as the 9MM kit comes with a semi auto steel 9MM cocking piece.   I have plans to buy another host gun to dedicate to 9MM but just have not done it yet as that project is low on the priority list.

JB

That is great news! I thought this was going to be much more complicated, and expensive. I just got off the phone with Pete. He is out of the Pins and Springs as well. Hoping for some next week....

I definitely want to stay with the A3 setup. It was originally in an A1 when I made the deal to buy all my friend's MGs. Later, he asked if he could keep the A1 and provide a new A3 instead. I was very happy with that deal!

I know there is a F/A cocking piece there, and from what I remember, looks like what you have pictured. It may be plastic too... In the dim recesses of my brain, I remember thinking that it was odd to have metal to plastic contact.

Thanks again!!

Aaron

If there wasn't some sort of trip in there it would fire auto at all, so there must be something.

The part where you mentioned that the carrier is getting hung up and  not closing all the way is a bit worrisome as that means the full weight and velocity of the carrier is either getting hung up on the sear and never closing (which is bad for the sear since its not designed to stop the carrier in its tracks) or you are getting bad bolt bounce and the action is opening to a significant degree (which is also not good from an out of battery detonation perspective if a primer ends up getting set off.)

Overall its really not all that bad to prep an a semi-auto AUG for a sear.  I read horror stories about how difficult it was, etc.  and sure its more difficult than a M16 DIAS but if you are methodical, take your time, test, etc. its really not that bad.  Some folks once you tell them torch and potential flying springs they are like where do I send it off to.  One thing I would suggest against is removing the sear from the pack.   For me I got to know how everything works so I always take everything apart....I think it took me half an hour to get that sear back in the pack as you need four gorilla strength hands or a complicated c-clamp and vice setup.....

From a plastic on metal perspective, you want the easily replaceable item to wear. Most conversion sears of any type you don't have the carrier hitting them directly if you can help it.  Only conversion sear that I can think of off the top of my head that  is designed with metal to metal contact on the registered/serialized  part is the FNC sear.  (maybe an M2 trip but its not really designed as a conversion part per say)

That totally makes sense explained that way with the plastic vs metal contact.

I am not sure if I am explaining the malfunction correctly. I just noticed that when it would not fire, as the hammer fell, the bolt moved forward just a tiny bit. I am sure there were light strikes. When I fed a round, it was like something was stopping it, but I doubt if it was the sear as it was barely noticeable...like almost closed but not quite by a fraction of an inch. If I pulled the bolt back about an inch and let it go, it would close all the way and fire...usually only a single round, but the occasional burst or mag dump.

Just to understand the malfunction.

1. Pull the cocking handle back.
2. Insert Mag
3. Drop cocking handle allowing carrier to strip a round into battery
4. Pull trigger back to the Auto Setting
5. Gun fires either one round (or a small burst)
6. Gun stops firing (trigger is still held fully back)
7. Let go of trigger and inspect the gun
8. Condition is a live round in the chamber,  the hammer is still cocked back (ready to fire) mode (i.e. it didn't drop), and the carrier is slightly back from the receiver breach face (i.e. slightly open).
9. You pull the carrier back an inch and let it go forward it goes all the way into battery. You pull the trigger and it fires another round or small burst?

If it was traditional bolt/carrier bounce the hammer should be down on a live round with a light pin strike.    

If you really have the hammer still in the cocked position and the carrier is hung slightly open than there could be a cocking piece to sear interface issue as if the carrier closed all the way the sear should have been pulled out of the way and let the hammer go (even if it bounce back open) and regardless of whether it fired or not.

The only other issue is pack is not camming the semi disconnector fully out of the way and every so often the hammer get caught by the semi-disconnector even if the trigger is pulled all the way back.

Not quite..

Just to understand the malfunction.

1. Pull the cocking handle back.
2. Insert Mag
3. Drop cocking handle allowing carrier to strip a round into battery
4. Pull trigger back to the Auto Setting
5. Hammer drops, no fire.

Or

1. Pull the cocking handle back.
2. Insert Mag
3. Drop cocking handle allowing carrier to strip a round into battery
4. Note bolt slightly OOB. Pull bolt back about an inch, release. Closes fully.
5. Pull trigger back to the Auto Setting
6. It fires a single round or small burst.

Sounds like it may be bolt bounce on the first one.  Bolt slams home, bounces open a bit  and the sear is maybe hanging up on the cocking piece a bit to keep it from closing all the way back down.  Pull the trigger and you are not getting a good firing pin strike.  Other option the sear is hanging up enough on closing that it never fully seats in the first place.  In this case I get how the hammer is held back as the trigger was not depressed when you let the bolt ride home.

On the second situation, after #6 (It fires a single round or small burst) and then stops, is the hammer cocked back and pull just pull the trigger again and get a click?  or is the hammer already been dropped and you have to pull the charging handle back and forth again (maybe initiating the first failure scenario again?)

If I remember correctly, the hammer is dropped and I have to cycle the bolt again recreating the situation.

Also, is there anyone else that may have the Pins and springs for purchase? If case Pete does not get any next week?

The only two folks I know who stocked AUG parts were Pete at PJ and Curt Lamanna at Capitol Ordnance.  When I talked to Curt a month ago or so he basically had given up on trying to get parts from Steyr and had moved on regarding the platform.

Neither of them have cocking pieces and the last time I spoke with Curt he didn't have anti bounce rods either.

Not to sound negative... but I wouldn't hold your breath on next week.   I have been told that the large order of full auto parts from Steyr should be here in two weeks and that has been going on 10 months give or take.

You don't have the pack yet, so there isn't a huge rush and maybe those parts will come in before your transfer does.   However, if you need parts right now a WTB ad on subguns and/or sturm offering 2 to 4X MSRP for the part will get you some offers.  That is what I have done over the past year or so to get offers on the parts I needed.

I appreciate the candid perspective about next week...I kinda figured that. I do expect my stamps in the next 30-60 days though, and would really like to be ready. After reading your posts, I am excited about this now. This is the one MG I am getting that I was pretty disappointed in, and considered selling it when I received my stamps to recoup some of my money, now I feel completely different about that if I can get it to run. I think I am going to be ok on the cocking piece, and only really need tg he anti bounce stuff as parts I don't have.

What are the chances the f/a parts never come in?

I think the parts will eventually show up, its just a question of when and if they will meet your timeline.  Worst case you buy them 3rd party.  Sure you may have to spend $300 to $400 for potentially a new cocking piece and anti-bounce rods that would normally be less than $150 from PJ, but you have a pretty sizable investment in the gun and pack so another couple hundred bucks is a rounding error from a financial investment standpoint.  

Overall I was never a big bullpup or AUG fan.  My interest in adding an AUG to my collection stemmed from wanting to get something different and that AUGs were relatively still affordable (at least from a transferable machinegun perspective).    The M16 will always be my favorite 5.56 machinegun, but I was really surprised how much I really like that AUG and it is probably my second favorite 5.56 gun after the M16.   I also have a AC556K, fixed and folder FNCs, HK33K, and a HK53.

Worst case if you continue to have problems you can always send it to Pete to get tuned up and he will return a functioning gun to you that will be a ton of fun to shoot.

Finally received my trigger pack from jail.

Glad to hear you finally got it in.

Were you  able to source the anti-bounce rods, springs, and full auto cocking piece?

No not yet. I am thinking about having a friend make the pins from tungsten rod. I have a cocking piece, but it is not factory, and almost certainly the source of my timing issues. I have a pic of it that I will post later.

Nothing to contribute here, but this is fascinating information. Thanks to all above for a good read.

jbntex,

I want to thank you for all your information and help you so willingly provided. My AUG project has taken a different turn. Out-of-the blue, I was offered the chance to buy a Thompson. With that, I need to free up some funds, and the AUG sear lost out and I listed it on GB. I really was looking forward to completing this based on your influence...but now someone else can.

Again, thank you!

Aaron