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First bullpup - which one? (Page 1 of 2)
Posted: 8/31/2025 6:42:53 PM EDT
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I have a decent cash bonus coming with my new contract at work, so I'm SERIOUSLY considering getting a bullpup. I've already got several ARs, so this is going to be a range toy, not for serious use. 3 in my price range are the PS90, X95, and Hellion. I'd love an Aug but they seem to run a couple hundred more than those 3. If I got the PS90 my eventual goal would be to SBR it. Other 2 I'd leave as is. |
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I will get beaten for this blaspemy... I have 16/20" Hellions, 16/20/24" AUGs, 18" X95, 20" WLVRN, PS90, 20" RDB, 24"RFB and a KSG410 The 20"RDB is very under rated, as a first toe into the Bullpup pool I highly recommend an RDB. With the cash saved you can put a decent optic on there, a light have and $ for ammo--good to go. Good trigger for bullpup, some after market options for hand guard. Another stomping inbound but I put a swampfox Sabre 5x with a 90degree refle on the RDB and it will hang with much more expensive setups all day. With 77gr and doing your part 2 MOA easy. Hellions are stupid accurate but you pay twice as much. I also recommend KSG410, super handy shotgun/zero recoil! YMMV |
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Originally Posted By cvryanm: I will get beaten for this blaspemy... I have 16/20" Hellions, 16/20/24" AUGs, 18" X95, 20" WLVRN, PS90, 20" RDB, 24"RFB and a KSG410 The 20"RDB is very under rated, as a first toe into the Bullpup pool I highly recommend an RDB. With the cash saved you can put a decent optic on there, a light have and $ for ammo--good to go. Good trigger for bullpup, some after market options for hand guard. Another stomping inbound but I put a swampfox Sabre 5x with a 90degree refle on the RDB and it will hang with much more expensive setups all day. With 77gr and doing your part 2 MOA easy. Hellions are stupid accurate but you pay twice as much. I also recommend KSG410, super handy shotgun/zero recoil! YMMV I forgot about the RDB because it seems to never be talked about. Since you said 20 inch, I assume you mean the hunter model? Other than form factor and barrel length, is there any difference between it and the original model? |
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I've had an AUG, shot the Tavors a bit, handled a few RDBs and Hellions, and I'm probably gonna go with the Hellion. I got rid of the AUG cause it kept feeling like a money sink for me. Couldn't quite find a setup I liked, but they still feel the best in the shoulder from the ones I've used, and I would happily take AUG mags over AR mags just because I prefer polymer mags and the AUG mags are solid, especially now that Magpul has their AUS mags. As nice as it'd be to save the cash going with the RDB, I just can't trust Kel-Tec's manufacturing enough for a "serious" use firearm. Something that I (in the very unlikely chance) need to use to protect myself, I've just seen too many issues for me to be comfortable using one. It really sucks cause the RDB has a lot of good aspects to it that'd make it my number one pick if another company was able to pick up the design and make it a bit more stout in construction. For range fun, I guess the RDB is a well suited option. Cheap, lightweight, great suppressor host, and etc. |
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18” Hellion isn’t a bad option for a fun gun, that way you’ll get one with the updated safety lever. They’re just a PITA to set up for NV if that’s your thing, and the trigger sucks compared to an AR. Optics will need low mounts. AUG is still the superior weapon, with better aftermarket support, and a more modular design. A3M2 is easier to set up for NV, and it’s really nice if you get the QD rail with it. A3M1 version can probably be had cheaper, and it’ll suffice for a fun gun. Little bit of a pain to set up lights and slings, but otherwise, it’s really sweet. Staple gun trigger, but it’s still much better than the VHS. |
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100% the Hellion in either 16” or 20”. I think I lean towards the 20” though. Out of the box it doesn’t really need much. Maybe the pistol grip if you don’t like the awful BCM one Springfield uses for 922r or a different muzzle device if you happen to use a suppressor. Any sort of optic will be right at home on it and it has the fundamental mechanical accuracy to make the most of all of them. At this point all of them should be coming with the tweaked safety but I don’t find the original one too egregious. It is very Euro in the manual of arms, they tend to prefer very deliberate actions for changing magazines focusing on retention and releasing the bolt. It’s really with the more widespread adoption of the HK416 family across Europe do we see the more American-style of handling become common. Yes, it’s faster, etc, but the others aren’t terrible. The AUG in movies/games is what triggered my interest in bullpups so it will always have a special place in my accumulation. That special place sits atop a literal pile of money as it also holds the distinction of the one gun I’ve spent the most money on between the barrels and rails and optics and everything. In that sense, Steyr absolutely sucks for having a turnkey gun that you aren’t going to feel compelled to spend hundreds/thousands of dollars making it the way you want. If you want an AUG, trust me, nothing else will scratch that itch. If you just want a good bullpup, get something else. The AUG will turn into a money pit very quickly. I do have an RDB as well but I’ve never really taken it very seriously. No issues, but it feels like Keltec. The downward ejection is novel but feels unnecessary. My biggest gripe is the gas system. Tuning it is great for a bench gun at the range but I think it is too adjustable for a military or self-defense purposes. So yeah, Hellion is my pick. |
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Goon tape/grip tape fix a lot of that feel. I might be lucky but no issues with any of the Keltecs I own and I was definitely a hater for years. Whenever I buy new gun, I take a smattering of ammo to range and see what the gun likes. All of them ran without issue. RDB is consistent and I say that as a compliment--not Hellion accurate but out to 500 it hangs well. RFB 24" was also a surprise for me. Hellion, especially 20"--master race bullpup. They were serious when they designed VHS2 for sure! But value for money, with identical accessories it is almost 2x cost. My Hellions prefer Lancer AWMs. No stoppages with other types/brands but the lockup with AWM has minimal slop. 40 rd PMAGs work but jiggle like Angela White running to her car. 77grain razor core was best groupings for me with Hellion and tuned AR level accurate/consistent. Have not tried trigger upgrade. Great suppressor host! For me, getting better with bullpups was about slowing down/changing expectations. If you do side by sides with ARs on a bench at a range, ARs win across board but really is apples to oranges. If you take just one gun to range and focus on it's nuances---almost all will feel better and you will improve with that platform. As soon as you bring two+, one will win and leave you feeling like the others end up ranked best to worst. RDB seems like it prints same/similar groups across the board with only slight edge in 77gr but I can't tell much difference between loads/bullets with around 1000 rds so far. I'm not saying it shoots M193 the same as BH77gr SMK, its just consistent with what you should expect from what you feed it from a grain perspective and does not seem to favor longer or shorter bullets. Will it print best group of the day? Probably not. Can I ring steel at 500 if I'm doing my part? Absolutely! WLVRN I wanted to love soo badly, but its not broke in yet and finicky which is annoying on a $2300 base rifle when $700 gun never jams out of the box. Techincally still breaking it in. Trigger is best out of bullpups by wide margin. Will keep working it out. Also, it seems to have less issues when warmed up. First mag is usually some flavor of shit show. I dont own or load any .223 spec ammo so I'm not under feeding it. I really want an HTI but am hesitant due to having to fiddleF with two desert tech products (MDRx was even more finicky and found a new home) .50BMG I need 100% right out the box. Oopsies, tolerence stacking or fitment issues with hand grenade size powder charge millimeters from my face = fear. The product placement in Ghost Recon wildlands worked on me so points for the marketing team! 24" AUG HBAR gave me issues during first 200ish rounds but none after--and its a factory 24" not swap. I know that ***should*** not matter but for whatever reason, the factory HBAR trigger feels like red spring conversion yet isn't vs other AUGs. 24" prefers M193 by wide margin. X95 also consistent but for my rifle its 2.5-3 MOA and stays there. Improvement over SAR I had/sold. Manual of arms still befuddles me, its a me issue. Mag release more like AR--even ambi! When my brain is in bullpup mode I stall out reaching back and then remembering. I took four mags did fast string of fire and still F'd up every time. The last mag made me stand there and think "am I really retarded?"--Jury still out. Next time bringing ten mags with three rounds each and just forcing the issue. |
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I've had them all except the FS2000 ... There is no free lunch with any of them, so here are my takes: 1) Hellion, as long as you are ok with a longer LOP, it is one of the best overall bullpups around. It suppresses EXTREMELY well ... EXTREMELY. I will probably end up picking up another. It is one of the easiest to switch ejections with. It is built REALLY well too. Def, my top 5.56 bully. I am an idiot for getting rid of mine. Slightly better accuracy vs the X95. HS Produkt really nailed this ... if you can get passed the idiotic name of Hellion ... its a top tier rifle ... the latest versions with the updated safety is the way to go. 2) X95, this one feels the most compact out of all of them for me. Perfect weight balance, maneuverable with excellent ergos. It would take top dog place for me if it suppressed as good as the Hellion. LOP on the X95 is about as good as it gets for me. I like its stout design. It is not as accurate as the Hellion, buuuut, it is consistent and holds heat better .... I know that I will get a 2.5-3 MOA gun with quality ball ammo and it holds that group ... to me that is worth a lot. Some guns will open up and start walking on you ... not the X95, for my sample. This is what I currently own, but I do think the Hellion is the best evolution. 3) WLVRN, I've had my time behind the MDR and it was a TERRIBLE experience ... still hesitate to pluck down dollars based on that ... I do feel that DT has came leaps and bounds with the WLVRN. If the WLVRN proves to be as reliable as the other above, this platform really just nails it in all things. Fact that we have caliber conversions readily available in 5.56, 300BO, 308 and 6.5CR makes me happy and should also all of you. This gun could veeeeery well jump to a #1 spot. 4) RDB, whaaaat ... you pick the RDB over an AUG ... absolutely ... it has a price factor with great ergos, adjustability, trigger etc that others can't touch. It is a veeery accessible platform. Keltec also has great CS. You can tune the gas perfectly to your can. Downward eject etc. It is a great little platform ... I would get the regular RDB vs the Defender. 5) AUG is nostalgic, and if you want that ... go for it ... ergos are trash, suppression is trash but it can be extremely accurate and a reliable machine. If you are solely right-handed, its a fine rifle. If you aren't planning to suppress it, fine rifle ... but it kinda still sucks with the suppressor plug with traditional cans ... what really is crap about the AUG is Steyr USA ... they have the worst customer service I have ever experienced ... EVER ... most unresponsive and stuck up operation there is ... that alone made me no longer support Steyr products ... |
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I haven't messed with the Hellion. It is depends if you to mod the base rifle after receiving it. Tavor has the a good aftermarket support. The best upgrade for the X-95 is the Geisselle trigger bow and FCG pack. AUG is a oldie but it is one that has flexibility built-in. Change buttstocks or barrels lengths no problems. Also has a good aftermarket support. |
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Manuals: https://iwi.us/wp-content/uploads/2024/01/IWI-Tavor-X95-Manual.pdf https://deserttech.com/media/attachments/products/WLVRN_Manual.pdf https://support.keltecweapons.com/hubfs/Firearm%20Manuals/rdb-manual-complete-OPT.pdf https://steyr-arms.us/wp-content/uploads/2023/07/AUG_A3_M1_US_2023.pdf https://www.springfield-armory.com/wp-content/uploads/HellionManual_V5.pdf https://fnamerica.wpenginepowered.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/10/1605_PS90_Owners_Manual_v3.pdf https://media.keltecweapons.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/06/RFB-Manual_OPT.pdf |
| I've been a bullpup hater for a long time, but shooting the PS90 and the tavor shocked me with how fun they are. I've been leaning PS90 for a little while, sbr it and carry it as a bag gun. Obviously expensive, but cool and fun, and there is somee arguable utility. |
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Originally Posted By thehun06: That would be fun!!! FN should revisit it and updated it to modern ergos ... their forward eject and FN pedigree would be a solid win ... Unfortunately, that’s unlikely to happen. It was discontinued after a few years because of poor sales. Even FN’s name couldn’t save it. It would be a stretch to hope for them to reissue it in its original form, much less spend the resources to modernize it and make new tooling for the changes. |
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Originally Posted By willi3d: Unfortunately, that’s unlikely to happen. It was discontinued after a few years because of poor sales. Even FN’s name couldn’t save it. It would be a stretch to hope for them to reissue it in its original form, much less spend the resources to modernize it and make new tooling for the changes. Originally Posted By willi3d: Originally Posted By thehun06: That would be fun!!! FN should revisit it and updated it to modern ergos ... their forward eject and FN pedigree would be a solid win ... Unfortunately, that’s unlikely to happen. It was discontinued after a few years because of poor sales. Even FN’s name couldn’t save it. It would be a stretch to hope for them to reissue it in its original form, much less spend the resources to modernize it and make new tooling for the changes. I too would love an “FS2025” (or FS2000 Mk2 given how FN names things) but I also accept it’s a pipe dream. The FS was my first rifle-caliber bullpup (with a Walther G22 being the first kind ever) and I still probably have more rounds on it than any of my others. The hey-day of cheap Wolf .223, inexpensive Fed XM193, I spent a lot of time at the range banging away with it. The only things I did to it were the Judochop handle and the FN aluminum tri-rail handguard. The trigger is pretty rough, but given my time with the early 922r AK triggers in the early 00s I have a pretty wide range of what I’ll tolerate.  There’s a lot about the gas system that’s very similar to the SCAR but without the heavy reciprocating mass of the pre-NRCH variants. I like how it was sealed so well against environmental factors so if they could figure out how to make the mag well a little bigger to accommodate polymer mags while retaining the seal, that would be the only major dimensional improvement it needs. If they can’t do that, there are plenty of good steel and aluminum mags that fit. My very limited thoughts for a Mk2 version: - improve the hammer pack design for a better trigger pull - slight dimensional improvement in the mag well to accommodate PMAGs or Lancer mags while retaining the gasket seal and backwards compatibility with metal mags - ship with something like the FN aluminum tri-rail - make the Slovenian raised carry handle rail available as an option (though maybe we just need to email Arex and beg them for it) I’m a fanboi for FN handguns but since they went full-retard on the SCAR (especially the continuous price hikes on an aging 20-year-old design) I’ve distanced my affection for their rifles. I have zero confidence they’d be able to execute on a Mk2 without pricing it something like $5000 and then being confused why it didn’t sell at all. |
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Quite a few bullpups including a KelTec (which I swore I'd NEVER own) KSG, PS-90 SBR'd, Tavor X95 and Steyr AUG. To scratch your initial itch I'd say PS-90 ALL day long! It is an absolute favorite at the range with experienced and new shooters alike. The recoil is very mild plus...StarGate! I'd love a Hellion because I like bullpups, but have no personal experience with them. It's a real toss up between the X95 and AUG about which is "better". I've owned the X95 much longer than the AUG and scored it recently when PSA had a significant discount on them. Besides...Die Hard! ETA: I had an FN FS2000 that I sold. I wanted to love it but even after taking out the mag gasket, running steel/aluminum mags only, etc. it was literally one of the least reliable firearms I ever owned. I'd consider mine a lemon because they certainly do NOT have a reputation for being so, I just could not get it to run reliably no matter the combination of ammunition and magazines and that's my number one requirement for ANY firearm; I'm not a range toy kind of guy... |
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Steyr AUG if you want something super high quality that is Battle proven and you can trust your life with and that will Outlast you and can be handed down your children. Rdb if you want what is probably the best suppressor host and don't mind checking and tightening or going through and locking down a couple dozen screws and having something that might not be able to last multi-generationally. |
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I went Hellion, personally and I'm not disappointed at all. I love the thing. My nephew just traded into an X95 and I got to finger fuck it today. Seemed nice and the manual of arms seemed easy enough. The trigger is better than I've heard. It seemed like a decent, middle of the road milspec AR trigger to me. Honestly, the Hellion's trigger is pretty close, too. Can't say the RDB isn't a good contender, too. Damn near got one of those earlier this year, when some stupid sales were going on for them. I'd really like to try one out just on the rep they have here. I should get a chance to shoot the X95 against my Hellion next weekend. I'll see what I think then. |
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I've owned the AUG; nice but needs modernization. I've owned the RDB; comparatively light and handles nicely, really wanted to like it, but, Kel-Tec. I've handled the Hellion; LOP was a no-go for me. Settled on the X95; I like the CHF/CL bbl, military ancestry, aftermarket support & accuracy for my needs (both of mine will do 1.5" 5-shot groups at 100yds w/PMC X-Tac M193 if I do my part). Factory trigger is surprisingly good, but I went with the ShootingSight 2-stage trigger which is a big help and all the improvement I want/need. Lack of gas adjustment for suppressor use is a non-issue for me, but I understand how it could be important to others. I pinned the factory FH so I could install the IDF thin buttplate for a 26.25" OAL and shave a few ounces off the weight. I've picked up spare parts so I can pass them down to my son & grandson someday. Attached File |
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We would do well to ponder how we're going to spend that eternity, because eternity is a long time to be wrong.
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Owned most of the 5.56 bullpups available, AUG, FS2000, Tavor SAR, RDB, X95, WVLRN, but only kept the X95 and WLVRN. I also have a PS90 that is SBR'd. I may pick up an Aug again, but go a different route than last time. Wlvrn, most expensive (at least currently in production) and can be a little more finicky out of the box, especially in 308, but mine in 5.56 has been fine, and the gun for others seems to be solid in 5.56, as most of the issues seem to come from 308. Ergos, accuracy, reliablity, etc are all fantastic. Probably out of your range, but its my favorite. X95, 2nd favorite, and really is only held back by its accuracy, 2-3 moa at best, and no adjustable gas block (there are ways to modify the gun to alleviate this) Egros and all are good, and its battle tested and robust. I will say though, the X95 really shines as a 13" SBR, and if you go this route I would consider SBR'ing it. Aug: Great bullpup, but if you do what I did, and try to modernize it to compete with the X95 or WLVRN it will be not be an ideal solution. The venting gas block limits rail options, and is a good spot to get burned or hit with hot gas, which hurts a lot. (I had a M2 with Steyr's rail) Manual of arms is not as great, but not bad and if you had your heart set on the AUG and modernizing it, it can be done, but just will always have some quirks. I may pick up another AUG, but will just embrace its Quirks and stick with a fixed optic and keep it as a "retro" style range toy. Hellion, was good, but the gun overall to me feels like a cobbled together design, and looks like it. Didn't have any issues with mine, accuracy was good, reliable, and such, but just didn't do it for me. Controls and ergos not as good as WLVRN or X95, but like the AUG they are workable and if the gun vibes with you then its a good gun. RDB also fine, but it lives up the the recycled beach plastic feel. its the cheapest bullpup and you can tell when you handle it. Fit and finish isn't as good as others, but works fine. I didn't care for the bottom ejection, and looking into it was difficult, and Imagine jams would be a pita to clear. Field stripping was awkward. Recoil impulse is different as the bolt has a really long travel, so that may be odd to you. If are bullpup curious, it might be a reasonable pick up for ~$600 to just play with, but for me, having other bullpups I liked more, I didn't keep mine long. FS2000, is a cool gun mechanically, and is one of the more expensive bullpups, and feels like you're holding extra large super soaker gun. Gun is pretty big and bulky, shoots well, but really nowadays is more of a curio and range toy than something I would use for serious uses. PS90 is great and a lot of fun, but being 5.7x28 I wouldn't put it in the same category as the others. I wouldn't get a PS90 over a WLVRN or vise versa, but see them as complimentary to each other (like owning a pistol and rifle). It is a fun gun and is practical, but is definitely more PDW than carbine/rifle like the others. |
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As someone who has handled, fired, and even designed parts for a lot of the bullpup rifles out there, here is my suggestion in order of highest to lowest for the top three out there: 1. Tavor X95. Best straight out of the box gun, excellent ergonomics, reliable, and good aftermarket support if you want to change/upgrade anything. Only downside is the 2-3 MOA which some people find to loose. 2. Springfield Hellion. Good design overall, very accurate from what people are finding so far (my experience too on steel plates out to 300 yards). but as mentioned, has a bit of the "cobbled together" look, the stock Length Of Pull is a bit long, and the trigger is long and weird. Aftermarket is rapidly catching up to support it. 3. Steyr AUG. Kind of locked in its weird 1977 ways with the vertical foregrip, marginal suppression ability, but I personally find the ergonomics, balance and handling better for me straight out of the box (buttpad was literally the inspiration for our line of Curved Buttpads we offer). Not ideal for those that like traditional forends or the "magpul clamp grip" There you go, hope that helps! Sven Manticore Arms |
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Yes the LOP on the hellion goes even longer! I do know they make reduced length buttpads for the hellion, but I personally didn't care for the look, and the LOP was fine to me. X95 isn't as friendly to suppress, generally you want to run low back pressure can. I did run a AAC 556 can for a while on mine, theres a few options you can do to mitigate the over gassing, such as a higher rate spring, or if you are willing do some work, you can tap the gas tube on the gas block from the rear and install a screw with a reduced size vent hole. I did this on mine to optimize it with 5.56 ammo, as they are gassed pretty heavy, even the 16" barrels will run just fine when cut down to 13". |
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Yeah, I don’t find the LOP on the Hellion to be egregious at all. I actually even kinda like the old school A2 stock though. I don’t wear armor so that whole tight-in on the shoulder hold, chest perpendicular to the rifle, style isn’t one that I use, which benefits from a shorter LOP. I can’t speak to the X95 specifically but the gas system on the SAR is pretty much the same and it is overgassed like a mofo. Mine would cycle too fast and misfeed using a regular can. (Low back pressure cans weren’t really a thing when I first bought the SAR and I’m not sure I’m into them in general.) The 5.56 Tavors suck for suppressing. The Tavor 7 on the other hand, comes with a suppressed position on the regulator. It may not be the most accurate .308 but the design is genius overall. I really want all the Tavor 7 features scaled back to the 5.56 as a Tavor 5. Pleaaaase IWI! Edit - I’ve considered the Tavor SAR/X95 kinda like the AK of bullpups in its design approach. It does a thing really well but sometimes can be inflexible in other uses, in this case, secret squirrel operator setups. 
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RDB and P90 are the only bullpups to take seriously. The rest of expensive overweight heavy pigs, that undermine the whole point by weighing more than an AR10. Get the RDB first. RUN it, it has nuances, so learn them. Once you master it, it's kind of a great gun. Then the P90. As to Desert Tech, the new WLVRN has potential if you want to go heavy class, and can be had in 6.5CM (which is what you should do, if you do). And the weight has come down a lot. I have the prior gen MDRx, that I would HAPPY to sell you, if you like, and if you work out. |
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Originally Posted By lazyengineer: RDB and P90 are the only bullpups to take seriously. The rest of expensive overweight heavy pigs, that undermine the whole point by weighing more than an AR10. Get the RDB first. RUN it, it has nuances, so learn them. Once you master it, it's kind of a great gun. Then the P90. As to Desert Tech, the new WLVRN has potential if you want to go heavy class, and can be had in 6.5CM (which is what you should do, if you do). And the weight has come down a lot. I have the prior gen MDRx, that I would HAPPY to sell you, if you like, and if you work out. I love my MDRX in 6.5cm (Both in the ES barrel and Factory BBL). |
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Originally Posted By Odinforever2000: I love my MDRX in 6.5cm (Both in the ES barrel and Factory BBL). Originally Posted By Odinforever2000: Originally Posted By lazyengineer: RDB and P90 are the only bullpups to take seriously. The rest of expensive overweight heavy pigs, that undermine the whole point by weighing more than an AR10. Get the RDB first. RUN it, it has nuances, so learn them. Once you master it, it's kind of a great gun. Then the P90. As to Desert Tech, the new WLVRN has potential if you want to go heavy class, and can be had in 6.5CM (which is what you should do, if you do). And the weight has come down a lot. I have the prior gen MDRx, that I would HAPPY to sell you, if you like, and if you work out. I love my MDRX in 6.5cm (Both in the ES barrel and Factory BBL). Would you like a spare? Paid $2500. Yours for $1400 |
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I run the X95 high rate spring from Shooting Sight ... works great for traditional baffle cans and a 3 Panther Gas Buster ... with those two things installed ... its not too gassy at all but I also run a .30cal or a 9mm can that is rated for 5.56 guns to help not as high of a pressure ... One nice thing about the X95 is that you do not get the typical piston pop when suppressed as some of the other platforms because the gas system is hidden inside the chassis so it is muffled a lot ... the Tavor, sound wise, is a great host ... |
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Originally Posted By lazyengineer: RDB and P90 are the only bullpups to take seriously. The rest of expensive overweight heavy pigs, that undermine the whole point by weighing more than an AR10. Get the RDB first. RUN it, it has nuances, so learn them. Once you master it, it's kind of a great gun. Then the P90. As to Desert Tech, the new WLVRN has potential if you want to go heavy class, and can be had in 6.5CM (which is what you should do, if you do). And the weight has come down a lot. I have the prior gen MDRx, that I would HAPPY to sell you, if you like, and if you work out. X95 is heavy, but as a SBR the weight is not bad at all and is very handy. WLVRN is also pretty light, and very light when you consider it in 308 or 6.5. I personally could not take the RDB seriously, it just felt like the typical recycled beach plastic cheapness, and overall fit and finish was not great. My rifle fought me whenever I would field strip it and it was annoying. Not a fan of the chamber being deep in the gun and hard to clear a malfunction, which did happen to me once. Luckily I bought the RDB somewhat cheap so didn't loose too much when I dumped it. Also my RDB had an weird issue that if the bolt was closed and hammer down, you could not insert a magazine all the way in. Something about the trigger linkage stopping the magazine, it was odd, and other RDB owners didn't seem to have this issue so who knows why my example was like that. For the price, its a good value and way to get your feet wet in the bullpup world, but to me personally is still a cheap gun. |
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Originally Posted By tavorsterling: X95 is heavy, but as a SBR the weight is not bad at all and is very handy. WLVRN is also pretty light, and very light when you consider it in 308 or 6.5. I personally could not take the RDB seriously, it just felt like the typical recycled beach plastic cheapness, and overall fit and finish was not great. My rifle fought me whenever I would field strip it and it was annoying. Not a fan of the chamber being deep in the gun and hard to clear a malfunction, which did happen to me once. Luckily I bought the RDB somewhat cheap so didn't loose too much when I dumped it. Also my RDB had an weird issue that if the bolt was closed and hammer down, you could not insert a magazine all the way in. Something about the trigger linkage stopping the magazine, it was odd, and other RDB owners didn't seem to have this issue so who knows why my example was like that. For the price, its a good value and way to get your feet wet in the bullpup world, but to me personally is still a cheap gun. You're not wrong on any of that. I tossed the handguard. and covered the awful Keltek grid with tap on the pistol grip. Removed the side sling mount bolts , which are a weak link that can lock up the gun (you'll see), and ran it hot many times to find what screws come loose. It's a cheaply made gun. But it's also my favorite bullpup, once you tweak and master it. I would much rather S&W steal it, and make it professionally. But In the world of bullpups, I hate the weight of the others. They are all fast, once up and in shoulder. But all the weight is on your right arm, so most of them (heavy) come up into your shoulder, very slow and will fatigue quicker, once in shoulder if for any length of time, since your right arm is carrying all the load. It's fine for a run. But for a duration usage and deployment they are too damned heavy. Except for RDB. 
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Originally Posted By lazyengineer: You're not wrong on any of that. I tossed the handguard. and covered the awful Keltek grid with tap on the pistol grip. Removed the side sling mount bolts , which are a weak link that can lock up the gun (you'll see), and ran it hot many times to find what screws come loose. It's a cheaply made gun. But it's also my favorite bullpup, once you tweak and master it. I would much rather S&W steal it, and make it professionally. But In the world of bullpups, I hate the weight of the others. They are all fast, once up and in shoulder. But all the weight is on your right arm, so most of them (heavy) come up into your shoulder, very slow and will fatigue quicker, once in shoulder if for any length of time, since your right arm is carrying all the load. It's fine for a run. But for a duration usage and deployment they are too damned heavy. Except for RDB. This x100. I would seriously reconsider the RDB if that happened. |
Eternity is coming for us all. It cannot be denied, debated or avoided.
We would do well to ponder how we're going to spend that eternity, because eternity is a long time to be wrong.
We would do well to ponder how we're going to spend that eternity, because eternity is a long time to be wrong.
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Originally Posted By Tomac: This x100. I would seriously reconsider the RDB if that happened. Certainly be interesting to see what S&W would do with a RDB inspired rifle. Probably still be a pass for me as the downward ejection on that gun has more downsides than upsides for me. I do like the downward ejection on the PS90 as its better executed |
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Originally Posted By Tomac: This x100. I would seriously reconsider the RDB if that happened. Originally Posted By Tomac: Originally Posted By lazyengineer: You're not wrong on any of that. I tossed the handguard. and covered the awful Keltek grid with tap on the pistol grip. Removed the side sling mount bolts , which are a weak link that can lock up the gun (you'll see), and ran it hot many times to find what screws come loose. It's a cheaply made gun. But it's also my favorite bullpup, once you tweak and master it. I would much rather S&W steal it, and make it professionally. But In the world of bullpups, I hate the weight of the others. They are all fast, once up and in shoulder. But all the weight is on your right arm, so most of them (heavy) come up into your shoulder, very slow and will fatigue quicker, once in shoulder if for any length of time, since your right arm is carrying all the load. It's fine for a run. But for a duration usage and deployment they are too damned heavy. Except for RDB. This x100. I would seriously reconsider the RDB if that happened. The RDB came out in 2015 - I wonder if Keltec patented any of the features on it that keeps S&W/Ruger away. The only thing that seems noteworthy is the downward ejection but that has prior-art in the FN P90. Incidentally, got an email from Classic Firearms this afternoon that has the RDB on sale for $599.99. Their shipping is always a little high, but still a decent deal. https://www.classicfirearms.com/bullpup-kel-tec-556-17bbl-black/ |
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Originally Posted By Kwisak: Hellion. PS90 is cool, but it’s just a range gun. X95 isn’t bad, but Hellion is better in pretty much every way. I’ll keep my x95 but hellion is a better pick. Hellion's LOP & X95's CHF/CL bbl disagree with you. |
Eternity is coming for us all. It cannot be denied, debated or avoided.
We would do well to ponder how we're going to spend that eternity, because eternity is a long time to be wrong.
We would do well to ponder how we're going to spend that eternity, because eternity is a long time to be wrong.
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Originally Posted By tavorsterling: Certainly be interesting to see what S&W would do with a RDB inspired rifle. Probably still be a pass for me as the downward ejection on that gun has more downsides than upsides for me. I do like the downward ejection on the PS90 as its better executed Originally Posted By tavorsterling: Originally Posted By Tomac: This x100. I would seriously reconsider the RDB if that happened. Certainly be interesting to see what S&W would do with a RDB inspired rifle. Probably still be a pass for me as the downward ejection on that gun has more downsides than upsides for me. I do like the downward ejection on the PS90 as its better executed What's wrong with the RDB downward eject? I've found it quite reliable, and like the ambidextrous nature. What I really like is the safety aspect , since if you ever do have a barrel obstruction kaboom, there is unbroken heavy steel by your face, and all that blast will be directed downward. Only real complaint is during bench shooting the cases land by your elbow and can burn you. It's not really intended to be a bench gun, but works fine at it otherwise. |
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Originally Posted By Tomac: Hellion's LOP & X95's CHF/CL bbl disagree with you. Local range has a hellion for $1100 and some change. I’ve never had interest in one but I said what the hell I’ll feel her up. That thing has the worse LOP. The weight also feels way off balance. I gave it back to the associate and went home to my AUG. |
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Originally Posted By lazyengineer: What's wrong with the RDB downward eject? I've found it quite reliable, and like the ambidextrous nature. What I really like is the safety aspect , since if you ever do have a barrel obstruction kaboom, there is unbroken heavy steel by your face, and all that blast will be directed downward. Only real complaint is during bench shooting the cases land by your elbow and can burn you. It's not really intended to be a bench gun, but works fine at it otherwise. I wear a glove when I shoot from the bench. |
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Originally Posted By Kwisak: Hellion. PS90 is cool, but it’s just a range gun. X95 isn’t bad, but Hellion is better in pretty much every way. I’ll keep my x95 but hellion is a better pick. The Hellion only really out does the X95 in regards to accuracy, and gas system adjustment if running a high back pressure can. X95 is better in every other way imho. |
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Originally Posted By lazyengineer: What's wrong with the RDB downward eject? I've found it quite reliable, and like the ambidextrous nature. What I really like is the safety aspect , since if you ever do have a barrel obstruction kaboom, there is unbroken heavy steel by your face, and all that blast will be directed downward. Only real complaint is during bench shooting the cases land by your elbow and can burn you. It's not really intended to be a bench gun, but works fine at it otherwise. Never seen a bullpup, like the Tavor or MDR/WLVRN that blew up and injured the shooters face, neck or any of that stuff. I know DT did some destructive testing and posted videos, and I know there is another video of a X95 in IDF training that had a broken firing pin that fired out of battery, but didn't do anything more than blow the mag out. So For me, steel in that area is a moot point. The downward ejection limits access to the chamber, difficult to see in, and when my gun did jam once, a royal pita to clear out. I have shot my X95 and Wlvrn weak side many times, and never had an issue with brass in the face, as you simply just put your face slightly further back. So to me the downsides of hard to see into the gun, hard to fix jams, was not worth the ever so slightly easier weak side shooting nature. PS90 does downward ejection the right way to do it, easy to check status of the gun, easy to clear malfunctions and that. |
First bullpup - which one? (Page 1 of 2)
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