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Posted: 6/29/2026 9:52:34 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Dhoward622][Edited]
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Hello all! I’m currently in the market for my first NVG setup and have limited knowledge. I’m looking for help deciding between the two units I’ve narrowed it down to. Thanks for any help! EDIT* I should have stated that I already have a thermal clip on for taking shots on coyotes. The NVG setup would be for scanning and target shooting. For context, I will be using night vision for target shooting on my range and for coyote hunting in open fields no more than 225 yards long. I will be helmet mounting whatever unit I decide on and supplementing with a SMS Trinity. For $1,900 Photonis Echo WP second hand from a guy in the Nightvison Facebook group. He bought it from nightvisoninc.com around 2 years ago. Very limited use and no blems. For $1,750 Omni 7 GP second hand from a guy on Tacswap. He is a unit armorer and knows guys that build units. He has good feedback, so I believe him. Low use and only one very small zone 3 blem. |
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Do not get Gen 2. Not enough gain under a no moon wooded environment. Now is an excellent time to buy. Used market is very slow so deals to be had. Join the Night vision discord. Omni 7s can be good tubes but they are fairly old and many are kinda clapped out. M23s (Elbit 2304fom White Phos) are becoming more and more prevalent on the used market. You could get a reasonably clean M23/PVS14 for not much more. I would also buy something you could reuse to build into binoculars too. If you like your nightvision, you will probably want binos eventually. The discord just had some recent Sprbl contract PVS14s for 2k that were very nice. These are more recent crisp green phos tubes. |
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Originally Posted By JohnDough: Thermal needs to somehow be a part of the conversation. Hey ya! Always good to see you posts! I think the OP has a thermal clip-on for yotes and he's looking for some analog stuff to walk around and navigate. (He edited his OP) |
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Originally Posted By TNVC: Hey ya! Always good to see you posts! I think the OP has a thermal clip-on for yotes and he's looking for some analog stuff to walk around and navigate. (He edited his OP) Thankyou! OP: This question (your op) is a bit more nuanced than just tube gen and provenance. Have you used NV before for extended time? Does green or white phos affect you differently? Some people really prefer one over the other, up to getting nauseated and a headache. Some people literally don't care. Warranty...Id contact NVI and ask. Technically the Omni 7 should outperform the Echo, at face value. Im a tube snob and always am prone to recommend the tube with the highest snr and lowest ebi. |
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Omni 7 from the 2 choices presented. Omni 7 is pretty much a sweet spot for performance to $. It will be autogated and have higher end specs that will compete with new units still sold today. Gen 3 will also outperform that Echo tube in dark environments. I would make sure it is a clean with no major blems. Take the savings and enroll in a nightfighter course after you figure out a mount/helmet/laser setup. |
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Originally Posted By jtstalker: Do not get Gen 2. Not enough gain under a no moon wooded environment. The discord just had some recent Sprbl contract PVS14s for 2k that were very nice. These are more recent crisp green phos tubes. #1 It's crazy to see how negative bias still persists regarding Photonis. It's 2026. They meet the performance of or outperform most old contract tubes in my experience. Unless gain is your only criteria for judging image tube quality. #2 SPRBL are not commercial purchase tubes. Dealers do not buy those They are grey market at best, but most likely part of an ongoing investigation/stolen GOV property. Especially if it involves discord.... Attached File The night vision discords exists primarily for two purposes: A marketing psyop - Direct traffic of potential buyers to a very niche online group, where public opinion is highly controlled by those in positions of influence on that platform (some of which receive kick-backs for promotion). Whole teams of pro-vendor accounts/alt accounts build the narratives and direct traffic to very specific micro vendors and individual sellers who struggle to exist elsewhere due to questionable business practices. They squash any opinion outside of the echo chamber and any positive words towards competition (such as established vendors and "big night vision"). Honey pot - crawling with feds (I don't mean that to be derogatory) and people already in trouble who are being watched or actively investigated. Just a reminder, when the agency involved has one person in question, they get a warrant for the private messages of every single person that has ever communicated with the suspect on whatever platform (discord/reddit/etc...) . It doesn't matter if that person has deleted their accounts and messages. It's all saved. They can show up to your door based solely on chain of communication and they show up with a stack of your messages printed out on a clip board, then they ask you about any dealings you have had with them. A VPN isn't saving anyone. I say all that as a caution to anyone thinking about doing business on the discords (aka diet dark web) or any other social media platforms like Facebook, reddit etc... It's a literal fools errand to buy from anyone selling night vision items tied to recently fulfilled government contracts. Saving a couple hundred dollars isn't worth it. And I haven't seen any start-ups operating a new/small night vision gig that actually knows how to assemble a device correctly either. So the problems are compounding. Stick with reputable vendors or used devices from reputable sellers, selling devices that have verifiable provenance P. S. I would love to share the newest wave of social media based micro vendors and their pyramid-scheme approach to on-boarding "sales associates" who essentially work for free. Promised that for each sale goes a small percentage into a piggy bank for the future purchase of a device. Anyone with a start-up business can have 10+ of these people working for them and spamming WTB adds. I digress... That's for another discussion. |
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Originally Posted By French1966: #1 It's crazy to see how negative bias still persists regarding Photonis. It's 2026. They meet the performance of or outperform most old contract tubes in my experience. Unless gain is your only criteria for judging image tube quality. #2 SPRBL are not commercial purchase tubes. Dealers do not buy those They are grey market at best, but most likely part of an ongoing investigation/stolen GOV property. Especially if it involves discord.... https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/496867/3823_jpg-3792526.JPG The night vision discords exists primarily for two purposes: A marketing psyop - Direct traffic of potential buyers to a very niche online group, where public opinion is highly controlled by those in positions of influence on that platform (some of which receive kick-backs for promotion). Whole teams of pro-vendor accounts/alt accounts build the narratives and direct traffic to very specific micro vendors and individual sellers who struggle to exist elsewhere due to questionable business practices. They squash any opinion outside of the echo chamber and any positive words towards competition (such as established vendors and "big night vision"). Honey pot - crawling with feds and people already in trouble who are being watched or actively investigated. Just a reminder, when the agency involved has one person in question, they get a warrant for the private messages of every single person that has ever communicated with the suspect on whatever platform (discord/reddit/etc...) . It doesn't matter if that person has deleted their accounts and messages. It's all saved. They can show up to your door based solely on chain of communication and they show up with a stack of your messages printed out on a clip board, then they ask you about any dealings you have had with them. A VPN isn't saving anyone. I say all that as a caution to anyone thinking about doing business on the discords (aka diet dark web) or any other social media platforms like Facebook, reddit etc... It's a literal fools errand to buy from anyone selling night vision items tied to recently fulfilled government contracts. Saving a couple hundred dollars isn't worth it. And I haven't seen any start-ups operating a new/small night vision gig that actually knows how to assemble a device correctly either. So the problems are compounding. Stick with reputable vendors or used devices from reputable sellers, selling devices that have verifiable provenance P. S. I would love to share the newest wave of social media based micro vendors and their pyramid-scheme approach to on-boarding "sales associates" who essentially work for free. Promised that for each sale goes a small percentage into a piggy bank for the future purchase of a device. Anyone with a start-up business can have 10+ of these people working for them and spamming WTB adds. I digress... That's for another discussion. Well said. About 10 years ago I was looking for an RMR and found one I like with a QD mount on Ebay. Got it put it on a pistol and really liked the set up. Months later, got an email from an "official" type account- turns out the RMR sight walked off a base and dude that jacked it was rolled up- he evidently did a lot of stuff like that. I sent the sight to the place as requested. They sent emails about how the guy was in court, "restitution will be made" (which is always BS), etc. About once every year or so I get an "update" email from them regarding the guy's case. That money albeit small, is lost. And it wasn't THAT long ago that some here got jacked up in a similar deal with some guy selling tubes he had stolen from a major manufacturer. You do have to be careful out there. |
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Originally Posted By French1966: #2 SPRBL are not commercial purchase tubes. Dealers do not buy those They are grey market at best, but most likely part of an ongoing investigation/stolen GOV property. Especially if it involves discord.... Honey pot - crawling with feds (I don't mean that to be derogatory) and people already in trouble who are being watched or actively investigated. Just a reminder, when the agency involved has one person in question, they get a warrant for the private messages of every single person that has ever communicated with the suspect on whatever platform (discord/reddit/etc...) . It doesn't matter if that person has deleted their accounts and messages. It's all saved. They can show up to your door based solely on chain of communication and they show up with a stack of your messages printed out on a clip board, then they ask you about any dealings you have had with them. A VPN isn't saving anyone. Just to add some clarity since you're quoting my discord post. To my understanding this was not related to SPRBL Tubes. I *think* it is tied to M23's, but that is also speculation. We were just trying to get ahead of it sort of like we did with the Lamneth situation here years ago because I feel like it is better out in the open than tying to avoid the elephant in the room. The same type of deal went down on the Facebook groups a few years ago on the 1610's and I had good reason to believe those were being investigated, too. There are also larger vendors out there that have had issues - I believe Will's Optics is one of them. The same rules still apply - buyers need to ask questions and understand what they are buying. The .mil typically does not release tubes to the public, so if you find something with a contract you might want want to look at something else, but even the commercial stuff... which is primarily was Lamneth was selling here year ago - can also be an issue, so there is no for sure thing unless you are buying from a vendor who is an authorized reseller for one of the tube manufacturers or full device manufacturers. Typically, my rule of thumb is that if you can get a used device with spec sheets, you're probably on the safer side of things. The Lamneth situation also changed what I consider buying and the questions I ask, because that situation also impacted me. I also own some Photonis tubes that I picked up on the EE and Photonis was amazing at getting me the the spec sheets for them. I've always wanted a set of "Intens" tubes. |
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Originally Posted By rvbrewer625: My pvs7 and pvs15 are almost useless for. Coyotes. They are like ghosts if in foot tall grass. My pvs14 supergain white phosphorus tube shows them very well. I would get a supergain tube if you are coyote specific. I run supergain tubes and find that they are slightly better than my regular l3ufwp. Maybe 10%. Thermal is the only thing that makes coyotes really pop out for me. TAD/eCOTI is okay, good in a field. Worthless for tree-line. I recommend bridged dedicated thermal for hunting. Attached File |
| He is right the only guaranteed way to watch them 100% of the time is thermal. Since I rarely shoot them a SG tube NV and gun mounted thermal is more than enough for me. If you want to stalk hunt them head mounted thermal will be a big improvement. I’m thinking about it myself for pigs. |
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I won't buy outside of our site vendors anymore. I rarely even look at this sites ee for night vision items unless I personally know the seller (chosos is a good guy). Too many bad stories out there from shady deals. That said, I would not even waste my time with a mono system anymore. Bino of your choice and some decent tubes. |
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