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Posted: 8/16/2025 10:08:55 PM EDT
| I really love my Fal. It's a very early DSA. I like Fals in general but it seems to me that they have one fatal flaw. I do not believe that a rifle designed for war should have an adjustment that can allow it to stop functioning. The gas system on most Fals I've shot will allow the gas to be reduced enough to not run. I mean the gas vent collar, not the grenade launcher gas plug setting. This seems like a mistake for a general issue weapon. What about battlefield pickup ammo? What about using your buddies sniper ammo? What if you aren't able to test fire? What if the collar gets bumped? Shouldn't they still run with the vent all the way open? |
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Lots of militaries would disagree with your assessment. The whole point of the adjustable gas system was to allow functioning with a wide variety of ammo- from mild to hot. So the rifle doesn't function with one type of ammo at an extreme of the adjustment range. What happens if the ammo is switched? |
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If they could run with the vent all the way open, they’d all be massively over-gassed from the factory, and there would be no reason for the adjustment system to exist (since it can only increase from there). NATO came into existence while the FAL was being designed. Even ammo that’s supposedly “standardized” can vary amongst manufacturers (and countries) so that would’ve been the driving factor behind making the gas system user-adjustable. I’ve never felt one that I’d describe as “easy” to rotate, so I’d say accidental adjustment would be a rare thing. Inappropriate adjustment would be more likely, but it’s not hard to do it correctly. The G3, its major competitor, also suffered from the effects of variations in service rifle ammo. Since it isn’t user-adjustable, HK had to provide different locking pieces (with different angles) to various nations which had adopted their rifle, and sometimes those had to be changed if their supplier of ammo changed. In comparison, the FAL offers a more elegant solution to the same problem. |
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| I understand it's for fine tuning to run well with various ammo, fouling or lack of oil. I'm just unsure why they would allow the adjustment to go so far as to not run with ANY ammo, regardless of how hot or light it is. I was wondering if it was just my rifle but just from reading it sounded ike it's a Fal thing. |
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In theory, you only need to set it once because your nation will issue ammo that's consistent. We civilians notice because we buy from a variety of makers who will give us a wide range of pressure curves that makes it seem fiddly and capricious. But, if you pick one loading from a single manufacturer, you can set it and forget it for the most part. That said... My buddy who's a veteran of Rhodesia says he set his closed and had his men do the same. Overgassed is better than under when the gun gets fouled is his philosophy. Plus a weak batch of ammo still cycles. |
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Originally Posted By Z09SS: In theory, you only need to set it once because your nation will issue ammo that's consistent. We civilians notice because we buy from a variety of makers who will give us a wide range of pressure curves that makes it seem fiddly and capricious. But, if you pick one loading from a single manufacturer, you can set it and forget it for the most part. That said... My buddy who's a veteran of Rhodesia says he set his closed and had his men do the same. Overgassed is better than under when the gun gets fouled is his philosophy. Plus a weak batch of ammo still cycles. That's super interesting. I guess that's a good way to set it and forget it. Did he mention anything about malfunctions, outrunning mags or worn piston rods? |
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Every gun suffers the same problems from ammo pressure variations; the only question is whether the gun gives you the ability to address the issue. AKs are generally grossly overgassed. Most commercial ARs are overgassed so they work when used with anemic Wolf ammo, or other cheap underloaded ammo. Some high-end ARs are tuned to work with NATO spec 5.56 ammo; Hodge and LaRue are a couple examples, and there are probably others. However, all of these rifles have their gas setting configured by somebody at the factory with a drillbit. FALs make that option available to any end user with a bottle opener (the always-available tool for adjusting the gas system). The thing to keep in mind is that the FAL was designed at a time when the specs for 7.62 NATO were all over the place. The adjustable gas was a piece of defensive engineering so that the rifle could be used with individual countries' ammo variations. The fact that it lets modern civilian owners tune their gas systems to minimize recoil is an unplanned benefit that you should take advantage of. |
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Originally Posted By Fang: Every gun suffers the same problems from ammo pressure variations; the only question is whether the gun gives you the ability to address the issue. AKs are generally grossly overgassed. Most commercial ARs are overgassed so they work when used with anemic Wolf ammo, or other cheap underloaded ammo. Some high-end ARs are tuned to work with NATO spec 5.56 ammo; Hodge and LaRue are a couple examples, and there are probably others. However, all of these rifles have their gas setting configured by somebody at the factory with a drillbit. FALs make that option available to any end user with a bottle opener (the always-available tool for adjusting the gas system). The thing to keep in mind is that the FAL was designed at a time when the specs for 7.62 NATO were all over the place. The adjustable gas was a piece of defensive engineering so that the rifle could be used with individual countries' ammo variations. The fact that it lets modern civilian owners tune their gas systems to minimize recoil is an unplanned benefit that you should take advantage of. I get that. The ammo pressures back then could be all over the place. I just don't understand the benefit of allowing the vent to get so large that it will not even move the bolt with any type of ammo at all. It has the grenade setting if you want to shut it off. Why did they also allow it to vent so much by adjustment? |
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Originally Posted By Teller_Ulam: That's super interesting. I guess that's a good way to set it and forget it. Did he mention anything about malfunctions, outrunning mags or worn piston rods? Originally Posted By Teller_Ulam: Originally Posted By Z09SS: In theory, you only need to set it once because your nation will issue ammo that's consistent. We civilians notice because we buy from a variety of makers who will give us a wide range of pressure curves that makes it seem fiddly and capricious. But, if you pick one loading from a single manufacturer, you can set it and forget it for the most part. That said... My buddy who's a veteran of Rhodesia says he set his closed and had his men do the same. Overgassed is better than under when the gun gets fouled is his philosophy. Plus a weak batch of ammo still cycles. That's super interesting. I guess that's a good way to set it and forget it. Did he mention anything about malfunctions, outrunning mags or worn piston rods? He never mentioned any function problems or wear with his methods. But I also think that we care more about our guns than he did. We own them and they cost US money. If his broke, he could have it repaired or replaced on someone else's dime. |
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Originally Posted By Teller_Ulam: I get that. The ammo pressures back then could be all over the place. I just don't understand the benefit of allowing the vent to get so large that it will not even move the bolt with any type of ammo at all. It has the grenade setting if you want to shut it off. Why did they also allow it to vent so much by adjustment? Sometimes you need all that vent. A FAL was considered within spec if the only way to get brass ejection down to the 6-8 foot range required opening the gas vent all the way. There's also the fact that if you can open the gas until the rifle doesn't function, then you're better able to calibrate the correct gas setting. One thing I forgot to mention was that there is also individual variability among rifles. Stuff like variations in gas port size, gas block alignment, gas piston tube thread tightness, and barrel alignment can affect the amount of force the piston imparts to the bolt carrier. |
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Adjusting the gas is one of the best standard features of the FAL. I open it up then close a click at a time and fire single loaded shots until the bolt hold open engages. After it engages for two rounds I add a click closed. Gas settings typically do not change on their own but I have seen more people put the gas plug in backwards (blocked) for grenade launching. |
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The OP is right assuming ammo is made well. However, the FAL was designed in a country and by people recent from wartime occupation and understood the harsh reality that quality control and consistency of nearly all things including ammo will vary in wartime. So in non-wartime ammo is more consistent, and NATO spec should be to NATO spec, but what if it wasn't and ammo was made in now relocated factories with untrained workers - this was the reality of WW2. And what if soldiers went from well trained that clean rifles to conscripted civilians that didn't clean guns (ever) It was easy to make the gas system widely adjustable and meant something for offering the extremes that hopefully never would be needed. Bit Frankly if a soldier is ignorant to clean a gun they won't figure out the gas is adjustable - Frankly I think the G3 is more soldier proof in that regard. Nothing to adjust - just design it to run at brutal recoil and call it done. |
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Originally Posted By cherenkov: The OP is right assuming ammo is made well. However, the FAL was designed in a country and by people recent from wartime occupation and understood the harsh reality that quality control and consistency of nearly all things including ammo will vary in wartime. So in non-wartime ammo is more consistent, and NATO spec should be to NATO spec, but what if it wasn't and ammo was made in now relocated factories with untrained workers - this was the reality of WW2. And what if soldiers went from well trained that clean rifles to conscripted civilians that didn't clean guns (ever) It was easy to make the gas system widely adjustable and meant something for offering the extremes that hopefully never would be needed. Bit Frankly if a soldier is ignorant to clean a gun they won't figure out the gas is adjustable - Frankly I think the G3 is more soldier proof in that regard. Nothing to adjust - just design it to run at brutal recoil and call it done. as to the bolded, 100% correct. With ammo comes inconsistencies.... I am thinking of the old school Turkish surplus 8mm that got STRONGER as it aged ( that stuff I swear could cycle a BOLT ACTION). different powder lots, different operators and different factories can all cause issues that can either cause a FTF or just wreck a rifle... an adjustable gas system compensates for that |
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Originally Posted By ScottinAZ: as to the bolded, 100% correct. With ammo comes inconsistencies.... I am thinking of the old school Turkish surplus 8mm that got STRONGER as it aged ( that stuff I swear could cycle a BOLT ACTION). different powder lots, different operators and different factories can all cause issues that can either cause a FTF or just wreck a rifle... an adjustable gas system compensates for that The Yugo stuff hit HARD, but the primers were too hard for my 8mm FAL's hammer to consistently set off. |
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