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Posted: 8/24/2026 10:26:19 AM EDT
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Was not sure how to best title the thread. Have you ever had a factory load (any caliber), that worked really good, but you have not been able to duplicate it? The brass, primers, and bullets are usually available, but a lot of factory loads use non canister grade powders that are not available on the commercial market. So you are not able to recreate the load using what is available. I'll give a example. I have a bunch of factory loaded winchester 9x23 win, 125gr soft point. It gets 1500fps and really good accuracy, and it is clean burning. I pulled a few bullets and the charge is 9gr of a unknown fine ball powder. Well, using quickload, and real life testing of various powders, I can find nothing commercially available that matches the velocity for the charge weight. Rumors online said W231 was the factory powder for this round. Not at 9gr. Another one says it was WAP, which allegedly was bought by ramshot and renamed to silhouette. Nope, I tested that too, and is is not the same. So I do not know what magic powder they were using, but man I wish I could get my hands on some of it. |
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Yea I have bought lots of pulldown powder, but most of the time you do not know exactly what ammo it came from other than the caliber and maybe the bullet weight. I am mainly talking about wanting a very specific powder with a burn rate or characteristics that are not commercially available. |
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What is usually done is use the headstamp/primer and bullet weight from the brand you wish to clone. Chronograph this load and get the average velocity. Then select several powders to test, with several charge weights. The one that gives the same velocity as the factory load is your clone. |
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Originally Posted By dryflash3: What is usually done is use the headstamp/primer and bullet weight from the brand you wish to clone. Chronograph this load and get the average velocity. Then select several powders to test, with several charge weights. The one that gives the same velocity as the factory load is your clone. Bad part is, most of the powders I have tested, I get flat primers and pressure signs before I get close to 1500fps the factory loads gets. |
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Originally Posted By Jeeps-And-Guns: Bad part is, most of the powders I have tested, I get flat primers and pressure signs before I get close to 1500fps the factory loads gets. That probably means you should play with seating depth and crimp when you experiment. The factory OAL is developed with the factory powder, but it’s not etched in stone. Since you get pressure signs before you get to the velocity you’re looking for, try seating the bullets farther out. Sometimes it only takes a little change in OAL to make a big change in pressure. |
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Originally Posted By GHPorter: That probably means you should play with seating depth and crimp when you experiment. The factory OAL is developed with the factory powder, but it’s not etched in stone. Since you get pressure signs before you get to the velocity you’re looking for, try seating the bullets farther out. Sometimes it only takes a little change in OAL to make a big change in pressure. I already seat the bullets out to the max OAL my magazines allow. And no I am not jamming them into the rifling, as I had a custom chamber reamer made with a longer free bore. |
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Originally Posted By Jeeps-And-Guns: Was not sure how to best title the thread. Have you ever had a factory load (any caliber), that worked really good, but you have not been able to duplicate it? The brass, primers, and bullets are usually available, but a lot of factory loads use non canister grade powders that are not available on the commercial market. So I do not know what magic powder they were using, but man I wish I could get my hands on some of it. Powder factories aren't making a line of powders for commercial and one for hobbyists. You're getting the same thing ammo makers get(other than blended powders). We get the leftovers/overruns from production runs. You know when a powder gets discontinued? They didn't decide to stop making it. Whatever ammo company was ordering it stopped using it and the hobby market alone isn't enough consumption to justify keeping it in production. |
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Originally Posted By Moondog: Don't large ammo companies buy bulk powders, blended in order meet burn rate and pressure requirements? Would it be economical for the manufacturer to sell smaller quantities other than surplus or pull-down powder to the hobby market? Some of them are blended and I doubt they let those get out from their control but most are the same thing you can buy off the shelf but we just don't know with any certainty what factory loads they're used in and they aren't going to volunteer their trade secrets. |
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